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RE: The new "XBOX"

 
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RE: The new "XBOX" - 7/2/2013 3:59:24 PM   
Chief


Posts: 7778
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee
I'd honestly treat all those rumours as horse shit until it's made official. Actually, if the always online thing is true, I'll eat Harry's Mum's used sanitary towel pillow.

(in reply to paulyboy)
Post #: 181
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 7/2/2013 10:57:01 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


Posts: 13301
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Not bothered about second hand games as:

1) You can buy the game brand new and sealed online for cheaper
2) I have no idea where the game or its previous owners hands have been.
3) If on the rare occasion that I do want to sell a game I'll get more money online than trade-in.

However being restricted to one console is bollox. Down with DRM. GOG forever.


I'm pretty sure the second hand blocking tech (DRM) isn't able to distinguish between a private sale and a trade in. You're not going to make any money selling online if second hand games don't work...

My biggest gripe is I end up with an ever growing pile of games, some I'll want to keep but others I won't. They can't go to a new home for money or free of charge, so instead I'm left with the option if collecting clutter, or binning them.

It also prevents me from taking FIFA (or any other game for that matter) to a mates as we currently do to round off a night of drinking and playing poker.

If MS and Sony really want to kill off the console with these dick moves they can be my guest, I'll happily just get a Steambox instead.


< Message edited by Sexual Harassment Panda -- 7/2/2013 10:59:05 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to directorscut)
Post #: 182
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 7/2/2013 11:20:03 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10887
Joined: 30/9/2005
I'm referring to the present.

In fact, I'd say it's been two years since I sold my last game.

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Member of the TMNT 1000 Club.

(in reply to Sexual Harassment Panda)
Post #: 183
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 7/2/2013 11:45:16 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2924
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

Playstation 4 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456978/playstation-4-to-cost-gbp270-at-launch-use-gaikai-cloud-tech.html

XBox 720 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456825/new-xbox-requires-constant-connection-blocks-second-hand-games.html

I thnk that this is a cock move by Microsoft. Customers get hit in the pocket and this will lead to MORE jobs being lossed. Imagine how many 2nd hand gaming shops there is out there. Plus it stops me buying 2nd hand (which is all i can afford as i can't splash £50 for a new game each time). or trading games I know longer want.



You need to look at it logically. Publishers/Developers and the console manufactures are losing out on 2nd hand sales. They don't recieve any money while stores like GAME will create at least £15 per sale. The most logical away around it each 720 game should come with an activation code. Once activated it can only be on a particlure console unless purchase's gamertag is logged on. Anyone buying the game 2nd hand would be required to spend additional money for a new activation code. The money from the activation code would go back to MS and the publishers/developers

(in reply to Titanm21)
Post #: 184
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 12:04:08 AM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


Posts: 13301
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

Playstation 4 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456978/playstation-4-to-cost-gbp270-at-launch-use-gaikai-cloud-tech.html

XBox 720 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456825/new-xbox-requires-constant-connection-blocks-second-hand-games.html

I thnk that this is a cock move by Microsoft. Customers get hit in the pocket and this will lead to MORE jobs being lossed. Imagine how many 2nd hand gaming shops there is out there. Plus it stops me buying 2nd hand (which is all i can afford as i can't splash £50 for a new game each time). or trading games I know longer want.



You need to look at it logically. Publishers/Developers and the console manufactures are losing out on 2nd hand sales. They don't recieve any money while stores like GAME will create at least £15 per sale. The most logical away around it each 720 game should come with an activation code. Once activated it can only be on a particlure console unless purchase's gamertag is logged on. Anyone buying the game 2nd hand would be required to spend additional money for a new activation code. The money from the activation code would go back to MS and the publishers/developers



I sell my car to fund my new one, does the car manufacturer of the first car see a penny of that money from the re-sale? No, so why do game developers feel they are entitled to money made from second hand sales of games? They aren't and never will be, they should however be accepting of the fact that the sale of/trading in of a customers old games can 90% of the time fund the purchase of another brand new game. Kill the second hand market and be prepared to see a drop in sales of new games.

_____________________________

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Member of the MW2 Star 69 Club
Member of the CoD4 Mile High Club

(in reply to Ghidorah)
Post #: 185
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 12:10:28 AM   
directorscut


Posts: 10887
Joined: 30/9/2005
Wow. This is the first time I've ever read someone on the Internet in favour of DRM.

< Message edited by directorscut -- 8/2/2013 12:11:06 AM >


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Post #: 186
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 10:26:10 AM   
Your Funny Uncle


Posts: 11971
Joined: 14/11/2005
From: The Deepest Depths Of Joypad.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

Playstation 4 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456978/playstation-4-to-cost-gbp270-at-launch-use-gaikai-cloud-tech.html

XBox 720 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456825/new-xbox-requires-constant-connection-blocks-second-hand-games.html

I thnk that this is a cock move by Microsoft. Customers get hit in the pocket and this will lead to MORE jobs being lossed. Imagine how many 2nd hand gaming shops there is out there. Plus it stops me buying 2nd hand (which is all i can afford as i can't splash £50 for a new game each time). or trading games I know longer want.



You need to look at it logically. Publishers/Developers and the console manufactures are losing out on 2nd hand sales. They don't recieve any money while stores like GAME will create at least £15 per sale. The most logical away around it each 720 game should come with an activation code. Once activated it can only be on a particlure console unless purchase's gamertag is logged on. Anyone buying the game 2nd hand would be required to spend additional money for a new activation code. The money from the activation code would go back to MS and the publishers/developers



I sell my car to fund my new one, does the car manufacturer of the first car see a penny of that money from the re-sale? No, so why do game developers feel they are entitled to money made from second hand sales of games? They aren't and never will be, they should however be accepting of the fact that the sale of/trading in of a customers old games can 90% of the time fund the purchase of another brand new game. Kill the second hand market and be prepared to see a drop in sales of new games.



My thoughts entirely.

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(in reply to Sexual Harassment Panda)
Post #: 187
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 10:49:22 AM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3092
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

Playstation 4 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456978/playstation-4-to-cost-gbp270-at-launch-use-gaikai-cloud-tech.html

XBox 720 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456825/new-xbox-requires-constant-connection-blocks-second-hand-games.html

I thnk that this is a cock move by Microsoft. Customers get hit in the pocket and this will lead to MORE jobs being lossed. Imagine how many 2nd hand gaming shops there is out there. Plus it stops me buying 2nd hand (which is all i can afford as i can't splash £50 for a new game each time). or trading games I know longer want.



You need to look at it logically. Publishers/Developers and the console manufactures are losing out on 2nd hand sales. They don't recieve any money while stores like GAME will create at least £15 per sale. The most logical away around it each 720 game should come with an activation code. Once activated it can only be on a particlure console unless purchase's gamertag is logged on. Anyone buying the game 2nd hand would be required to spend additional money for a new activation code. The money from the activation code would go back to MS and the publishers/developers



I sell my car to fund my new one, does the car manufacturer of the first car see a penny of that money from the re-sale? No, so why do game developers feel they are entitled to money made from second hand sales of games? They aren't and never will be, they should however be accepting of the fact that the sale of/trading in of a customers old games can 90% of the time fund the purchase of another brand new game. Kill the second hand market and be prepared to see a drop in sales of new games.


Exactly. It's a stupid argument that game developers are somehow losing out on second hand sales. Can anyone name any other item or product that is sold second hand where the original manufacturer gets a slice? Because I certainly can't think of any.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Your Funny Uncle)
Post #: 188
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 11:17:09 AM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Not bothered about second hand games as:

1) You can buy the game brand new and sealed online for cheaper
2) I have no idea where the game or its previous owners hands have been.
3) If on the rare occasion that I do want to sell a game I'll get more money online than trade-in.

However being restricted to one console is bollox. Down with DRM. GOG forever.


But you won't get money for it online. Thats the point. Once you have used that game its "Locked" to your XBox live account. So you can't sell it

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(in reply to directorscut)
Post #: 189
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 12:59:09 PM   
borstal


Posts: 9175
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: its grom up nirth
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Exactly. It's a stupid argument that game developers are somehow losing out on second hand sales. Can anyone name any other item or product that is sold second hand where the original manufacturer gets a slice? Because I certainly can't think of any.



Cheese?

_____________________________

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http://letterboxd.com/borstal/



(in reply to Vadersville)
Post #: 190
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 3:13:42 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah

You need to look at it logically. Publishers/Developers and the console manufactures are losing out on 2nd hand sales. They don't recieve any money while stores like GAME will create at least £15 per sale. The most logical away around it each 720 game should come with an activation code. Once activated it can only be on a particlure console unless purchase's gamertag is logged on. Anyone buying the game 2nd hand would be required to spend additional money for a new activation code. The money from the activation code would go back to MS and the publishers/developers


I understand the reasons Publishers would want this, like you say they don't get a cut of the 2nd market. Ubisoft and EA already do the passport thing at a cost which I still think is a cheeky tax on gamers (I know its not a tax but you get my point).

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Join us for all the latest trailers in the world of Gaming, TV and Movies [also Facebook and Twitter]

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Post #: 191
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 5:02:17 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2581
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Exactly. It's a stupid argument that game developers are somehow losing out on second hand sales. Can anyone name any other item or product that is sold second hand where the original manufacturer gets a slice? Because I certainly can't think of any.



I've been trying to think of an example all day and I honestly can't. That said I'm sure companies would if they could, companies like Microsoft and the such are just in a privileged position of being able to in the first place, it's a logistical nightmare trying to force such a regime with other products.

Whilst I think it's utterly unfathomable of them to do such a thing, ultimately second hand games sales will die on their arse the instant we start downloading all our purchases.

PC games have been policing piracy with various measures for years, which has the knock-on effect of obliterating any second hand sale period. Obviously with platforms like Steam second hand sales aren't even an issue. So whilst I think it's an utter, utter cheek for Microsoft and the like to pull such a stunt (if they do, I'm not convinced they will) at this moment in time, ultimately, it won't matter eventually, second hand game sales simply won't exist in a few years time.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Vadersville)
Post #: 192
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 6:09:48 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2924
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Wow. This is the first time I've ever read someone on the Internet in favour of DRM.



Yeah my comments were bias and I should of gone into more detail. My comments mainly focus on rip off GAME and their ripping off practices. However there are other knock on effects like borrowing games off friends or honest 2nd hand sales on ebay.

Sony and MS need to focus on downloads and getting retailers on their side. The best option is to have home downloads at £45 while downloads from retailers' download pods should be £36? This allow more customers entering shops to browse more while they wait for downloads, save money on manufacturing, storage and transporting. Everyone is a winner.

(in reply to directorscut)
Post #: 193
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 6:18:04 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Wow. This is the first time I've ever read someone on the Internet in favour of DRM.



Yeah my comments were bias and I should of gone into more detail. My comments mainly focus on rip off GAME and their ripping off practices. However there are other knock on effects like borrowing games off friends or honest 2nd hand sales on ebay.

Sony and MS need to focus on downloads and getting retailers on their side. The best option is to have home downloads at £45 while downloads from retailers' download pods should be £36? This allow more customers entering shops to browse more while they wait for downloads, save money on manufacturing, storage and transporting. Everyone is a winner.


DAFUQ???

Why should a download cost the same as a physical product? There's no prinitng costs, no pressing costs, no shipping costs and no distributions costs. Downloads should be no more than about £30 and should be a home thing only. How do you download a 50Gb file from a retailer pod and what do you download it onto? That doesn't make sense.

< Message edited by Harry Tuttle -- 8/2/2013 6:23:52 PM >


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Post #: 194
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 6:30:49 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1160
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulyboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Exactly. It's a stupid argument that game developers are somehow losing out on second hand sales. Can anyone name any other item or product that is sold second hand where the original manufacturer gets a slice? Because I certainly can't think of any.



I've been trying to think of an example all day and I honestly can't. That said I'm sure companies would if they could, companies like Microsoft and the such are just in a privileged position of being able to in the first place, it's a logistical nightmare trying to force such a regime with other products.

Whilst I think it's utterly unfathomable of them to do such a thing, ultimately second hand games sales will die on their arse the instant we start downloading all our purchases.

PC games have been policing piracy with various measures for years, which has the knock-on effect of obliterating any second hand sale period. Obviously with platforms like Steam second hand sales aren't even an issue. So whilst I think it's an utter, utter cheek for Microsoft and the like to pull such a stunt (if they do, I'm not convinced they will) at this moment in time, ultimately, it won't matter eventually, second hand game sales simply won't exist in a few years time.


There is a principle in law called "the doctrine of first sale". This basically states that once a person (natural or legal) sells a product they lose any rights over what the purchaser does with it afterwards; providing of course none of their retained rights (notably copyright in this instance) are infringed.

There was a recent case in the ECJ on this point. It was about whether a software company can restrict the resale of software by claiming it was not a sale: rather a licensing agreement. The ECJ was very clear that when the right to use software is transferred for remuneration, without any limitation on how long it can be used for, it amounts to a sale. It is irrelevant whether the sale was by way of physical media or via digital distribution. Therefore the doctrine applies and any measure to prevent the reselling of licences will be unlawful.

That case is directly applicable to the current proposals. If these rumoured measured are true they will almost certainly amount to a breach of EU law if put in place.

You can read a summary of the judgment here.

It should probably be noted that this ruling is in direct contrast to a US decision which deemed that in such cases the licence was merely a licence, and the doctrine does not apply. It is possible that such measures could be used in the US (and Japan where resale is, strictly speaking, illegal) but not in the EU.

(in reply to paulyboy)
Post #: 195
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 7:00:14 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2924
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Wow. This is the first time I've ever read someone on the Internet in favour of DRM.



Yeah my comments were bias and I should of gone into more detail. My comments mainly focus on rip off GAME and their ripping off practices. However there are other knock on effects like borrowing games off friends or honest 2nd hand sales on ebay.

Sony and MS need to focus on downloads and getting retailers on their side. The best option is to have home downloads at £45 while downloads from retailers' download pods should be £36? This allow more customers entering shops to browse more while they wait for downloads, save money on manufacturing, storage and transporting. Everyone is a winner.


DAFUQ???

Why should a download cost the same as a physical product? There's no prinitng costs, no pressing costs, no shipping costs and no distributions costs. Downloads should be no more than about £30 and should be a home thing only. How do you download a 50Gb file from a retailer pod and what do you download it onto? That doesn't make sense.



It's a simple suggestions but retailers need to act now not only to compete with online orders but the growing demand of downloads. At the moment new releases are appearing on the PS3 network at £60. It's only the matter of time before future releases become competitive with retail prices.

End of the day hardware companies, developers and publishers need retailers. Shops are the best and quickest way to access game related products. Also supplying retailers with games for consumers to look at is a great way to advertise. If retail don't offer cheaper instore downloads compared to home downloads then they are finish. The good thing is portable storage are getting bigger and cheaper. If Nintendo China able to produce this model a few years ago then surely Sony and MS can now.

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 196
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 7:19:54 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


Posts: 13301
Joined: 30/9/2005
Or retailers could just sell codes to redeem on the digital services along with the hardware, this way people who want to gift a game to someone still can, and those who don't like using online payment methods don't have to.

You say you're supporting the retailers and you want them to change to survive, but you support the one movement (the ridding of/subsidisation of second hand sales) that is currently keeping these stores afloat.

It's a really crappy issue to be honest, retailers selling second hand games have lived side by side the industry for decades. Yet it's only in recent years when gaming has become more mainstream and the profits made by the publishers have soared massively that they've decided "this cannot go on, they're costing us money." As I said above, these second hand sales normally result in the purchase of more new games, the decline of the former will have a negative effect on the latter.

What's more is there are plenty of people who just wouldn't buy games if they couldn't get second hand alternatives, and there are those that try a game second hand on a whim because its cheap and then provide the publisher with money through the purchase of DLC (not this crappy online pass bollocks) or by enjoying it that much they purchase a new copy of the sequel upon release.

Publishers are thinking only with their wallets and not the bigger picture.


< Message edited by Sexual Harassment Panda -- 8/2/2013 7:21:35 PM >


_____________________________

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Member of the MW2 Star 69 Club
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(in reply to Ghidorah)
Post #: 197
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 7:22:55 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2581
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

There is a principle in law called "the doctrine of first sale". This basically states that once a person (natural or legal) sells a product they lose any rights over what the purchaser does with it afterwards; providing of course none of their retained rights (notably copyright in this instance) are infringed.

There was a recent case in the ECJ on this point. It was about whether a software company can restrict the resale of software by claiming it was not a sale: rather a licensing agreement. The ECJ was very clear that when the right to use software is transferred for remuneration, without any limitation on how long it can be used for, it amounts to a sale. It is irrelevant whether the sale was by way of physical media or via digital distribution. Therefore the doctrine applies and any measure to prevent the reselling of licences will be unlawful.

That case is directly applicable to the current proposals. If these rumoured measured are true they will almost certainly amount to a breach of EU law if put in place.

You can read a summary of the judgment here.

It should probably be noted that this ruling is in direct contrast to a US decision which deemed that in such cases the licence was merely a licence, and the doctrine does not apply. It is possible that such measures could be used in the US (and Japan where resale is, strictly speaking, illegal) but not in the EU.


As always DPP, interesting!

_____________________________

"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever!"

(in reply to Dpp1978)
Post #: 198
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 9:32:38 PM   
SWOTBM


Posts: 1998
Joined: 6/5/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

Playstation 4 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456978/playstation-4-to-cost-gbp270-at-launch-use-gaikai-cloud-tech.html

XBox 720 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456825/new-xbox-requires-constant-connection-blocks-second-hand-games.html

I thnk that this is a cock move by Microsoft. Customers get hit in the pocket and this will lead to MORE jobs being lossed. Imagine how many 2nd hand gaming shops there is out there. Plus it stops me buying 2nd hand (which is all i can afford as i can't splash £50 for a new game each time). or trading games I know longer want.



You need to look at it logically. Publishers/Developers and the console manufactures are losing out on 2nd hand sales. They don't recieve any money while stores like GAME will create at least £15 per sale. The most logical away around it each 720 game should come with an activation code. Once activated it can only be on a particlure console unless purchase's gamertag is logged on. Anyone buying the game 2nd hand would be required to spend additional money for a new activation code. The money from the activation code would go back to MS and the publishers/developers



I sell my car to fund my new one, does the car manufacturer of the first car see a penny of that money from the re-sale? No, so why do game developers feel they are entitled to money made from second hand sales of games? They aren't and never will be, they should however be accepting of the fact that the sale of/trading in of a customers old games can 90% of the time fund the purchase of another brand new game. Kill the second hand market and be prepared to see a drop in sales of new games.


Exactly. It's a stupid argument that game developers are somehow losing out on second hand sales. Can anyone name any other item or product that is sold second hand where the original manufacturer gets a slice? Because I certainly can't think of any.


But the developer/publisher is losing out in the sense that they would have to keep servers up and running for an unfairly long period of time. When the game is sold the devs/pubs probably guesstimate how long they will have to support the game and the purchase price will reflect that. But if the game is being kept ''alive'' for longer, by that person selling it to another person, then the devs/pubs are losing out imo. They could pass this cost on to the initial purchaser by upping the RRP (unfair on the first buyer) or having the online pass system (which I don't disagree with in principle). Obviously this only applies to games with an online aspect- but maybe you could stretch the argument by saying that developers would need to maintain the game (fixing bugs or banning hackers etc.).

The question about the original manufacturer getting a slice is perhaps unanswerable, but one could also ask whether there is an original manufacturer who continually maintains their product at no extra cost (excluding things like warranties/guarantees) after the product is sold second hand?

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(in reply to Vadersville)
Post #: 199
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/2/2013 10:20:01 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3092
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

Playstation 4 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456978/playstation-4-to-cost-gbp270-at-launch-use-gaikai-cloud-tech.html

XBox 720 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456825/new-xbox-requires-constant-connection-blocks-second-hand-games.html

I thnk that this is a cock move by Microsoft. Customers get hit in the pocket and this will lead to MORE jobs being lossed. Imagine how many 2nd hand gaming shops there is out there. Plus it stops me buying 2nd hand (which is all i can afford as i can't splash £50 for a new game each time). or trading games I know longer want.



You need to look at it logically. Publishers/Developers and the console manufactures are losing out on 2nd hand sales. They don't recieve any money while stores like GAME will create at least £15 per sale. The most logical away around it each 720 game should come with an activation code. Once activated it can only be on a particlure console unless purchase's gamertag is logged on. Anyone buying the game 2nd hand would be required to spend additional money for a new activation code. The money from the activation code would go back to MS and the publishers/developers



I sell my car to fund my new one, does the car manufacturer of the first car see a penny of that money from the re-sale? No, so why do game developers feel they are entitled to money made from second hand sales of games? They aren't and never will be, they should however be accepting of the fact that the sale of/trading in of a customers old games can 90% of the time fund the purchase of another brand new game. Kill the second hand market and be prepared to see a drop in sales of new games.


Exactly. It's a stupid argument that game developers are somehow losing out on second hand sales. Can anyone name any other item or product that is sold second hand where the original manufacturer gets a slice? Because I certainly can't think of any.


But the developer/publisher is losing out in the sense that they would have to keep servers up and running for an unfairly long period of time. When the game is sold the devs/pubs probably guesstimate how long they will have to support the game and the purchase price will reflect that. But if the game is being kept ''alive'' for longer, by that person selling it to another person, then the devs/pubs are losing out imo. They could pass this cost on to the initial purchaser by upping the RRP (unfair on the first buyer) or having the online pass system (which I don't disagree with in principle). Obviously this only applies to games with an online aspect- but maybe you could stretch the argument by saying that developers would need to maintain the game (fixing bugs or banning hackers etc.).

The question about the original manufacturer getting a slice is perhaps unanswerable, but one could also ask whether there is an original manufacturer who continually maintains their product at no extra cost (excluding things like warranties/guarantees) after the product is sold second hand?


What difference is it to them whether I'm keeping the game and playing it over and over or play it a bit then sell it / trade it on and someone else is playing it? There's still only the same amount of copies as they sold. I'm not somehow duplicating the number of discs out there. Games don't come with an expiry date (even ones with the online aspect) but we just take it on the chin when they eventually announce that the servers are being shut down, and as for funding the fixing of bugs, well, to be honest if I buy a game and it has a bug that big enough to genuinelly spoil the enjoyment of playing it than I would expect them to fix it, regardless of them getting money from second hand sales.

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RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 9/2/2013 1:58:11 AM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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It's also worth pointing out that Xbox LIVE pays for most servers, or in fact a lot of games use P2P hosting so that argument holds less weight on the Xbox platform. EA and a few others take it upon themselves to do all their own hosting etc hence why you don't need an Xbox LIVE sub to play their games, but they've taken on that expense themselves when the solution is there for them, so that's their own issue.

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RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 10/2/2013 12:04:12 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8061
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

Playstation 4 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456978/playstation-4-to-cost-gbp270-at-launch-use-gaikai-cloud-tech.html

XBox 720 News
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a456825/new-xbox-requires-constant-connection-blocks-second-hand-games.html

I thnk that this is a cock move by Microsoft. Customers get hit in the pocket and this will lead to MORE jobs being lossed. Imagine how many 2nd hand gaming shops there is out there. Plus it stops me buying 2nd hand (which is all i can afford as i can't splash £50 for a new game each time). or trading games I know longer want.


Pretty sure that's based on the doc leaked two years ago where activation codes were mentioned, coupled with the newer information of the always on function.
Not something I'm getting too wound up about, to be honest its more likely to bother my friends who have my games after I've completed them. Just don't buy all games on release, and wait for the price drops unless you're intending on playing it to death from the first available moment.
If they are going to lock games down it should be to your account, not console. It would seem an obvious own goal to me to implement this and then lock it to a single device.


< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 10/2/2013 12:11:08 PM >


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RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 10/2/2013 2:45:49 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2924
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Here is a good article the comparing the neXbox and PS4

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis

All the information might not be correct. The summary is:

The PS4 will be a dedicated game console but that may change later in it life cycle like the Xbox360 been doing.

The neXbox has 8gb of ram and 3 GB will be used for it windows 8 operating system. The neXbox will be a mulitmedia home center and will have slightly inferior games compared to the PS4.

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Post #: 203
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 10/2/2013 3:20:43 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10887
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah

Here is a good article the comparing the neXbox and PS4

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis

All the information might not be correct. The summary is:

The PS4 will be a dedicated game console but that may change later in it life cycle like the Xbox360 been doing.

The neXbox has 8gb of ram and 3 GB will be used for it windows 8 operating system. The neXbox will be a mulitmedia home center and will have slightly inferior games compared to the PS4.


Only if you think graphics are the end all and be all of games.

As proven by this generation of games, the most powerful console doesn't always have the better graphics/performance. The console that is easier to develop for does.

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RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 10/2/2013 5:24:57 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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It's not just about visuals in terms of "graphics" though, it's about general performance, the ability to replicate reality more with even more life like physics and lighting engines, larger sand box worlds with no loading screens etc.

If there's one thing this generation did wrong it was not living up to it's name sake by under spec'ing the consoles. It was the HD generation, yet the vast majority of the games all run at below 720p.

I'd like to see a minimum requirement next generation of 1080p @ 60fps and not just low res elements being upscaled.

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RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 11/2/2013 8:12:16 AM   
sroey


Posts: 1474
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah

Here is a good article the comparing the neXbox and PS4

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis

All the information might not be correct. The summary is:

The PS4 will be a dedicated game console but that may change later in it life cycle like the Xbox360 been doing.

The neXbox has 8gb of ram and 3 GB will be used for it windows 8 operating system. The neXbox will be a mulitmedia home center and will have slightly inferior games compared to the PS4.


Based on the rumored specs for each - you are not going to see any difference visually. Both are going to extremely powerful dedicated platforms. Inferior visually you mean?

The next Xbox wont run windows 8 if you ask me. Highly doubt that to be honest, it would essentially be a locked down HTPC...

@SHP - couldn't agree more. Standard 1080p resolution rather than sub 720p - upscaled malarky. Sure games look great not but all those videos I see of BF3 running at 60fps on PCs make me jealous!!



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Post #: 206
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 11/2/2013 8:33:18 AM   
From_Hell


Posts: 1561
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From: The foot of the MegaTree

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah

Here is a good article the comparing the neXbox and PS4

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis

All the information might not be correct. The summary is:

The PS4 will be a dedicated game console but that may change later in it life cycle like the Xbox360 been doing.

The neXbox has 8gb of ram and 3 GB will be used for it windows 8 operating system. The neXbox will be a mulitmedia home center and will have slightly inferior games compared to the PS4.


Nowhere in the article does it say that. The PS4 appears to be more powerfully specced, but I don't see how you can read into that that the games will be inferior on the new Xbox

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Post #: 207
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 11/2/2013 10:56:46 AM   
sroey


Posts: 1474
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I want to play .mkv files out of the box too. Sort it out MS (& Sony)

They want to have a single box for consumers?! Thats a biggie for me


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Post #: 208
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 11/2/2013 11:45:22 AM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2581
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sroey

I want to play .mkv files out of the box too. Sort it out MS (& Sony)



Me too, in fact proper media centre functionality like XBMC would do wonders for me.

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Post #: 209
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 12/2/2013 11:16:17 AM   
sroey


Posts: 1474
Joined: 30/9/2005
Interesting read from Kotaku...

http://kotaku.com/5982986/we-know-all-about-the-next-xbox-from-someone-who-says-theyve-got-one


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