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RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 21/3/2013 4:48:13 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10891
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gizmo 76

I'd happily accept the need for a connection if we were able to install all our games and not need to faff around with the discs. Maybe the license for that install can be revoked as soon as the game is played on different gamertag on another console... and if no connection available the game asks for the disc like current installs.

I don't believe they'll stop pre-owned games.. but then companies do seem to like doing stuff at the moment that generates an internet fury blacklash on a large scale


You won't be saying that when your connection cuts out half way through a difficult boss battle.

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Post #: 271
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 21/3/2013 7:17:11 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2939
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

I know there is a dedicated PS4 thread, but this seems to have become the de facto next gen console discussion thread so I'll post this here.

Bob: Here is the spec sheet Sony released after the conference: click me.

The reason the announcement was really well received by developers and more tech savvy gamers was the choice of a single pool of 8GB of ultra fast GDDR RAM. Up to that point the rumour mill was sure it would be 4GB (and in all other respects the rumours were spot on) compared with Xbox's 8GB of much slower DDR3 RAM (albeit with a cache of faster memory to help compensate).

This led to a back and forth over which solution would be better: was a smaller pool of fast RAM better than a Bigger pool of slow RAM, or vice versa. Both sides made valid points, but the consensus among the hardware geeks was Sony's solution was probably better for games. When Sony announced there is to 8GB: matching MS' rumoured offering, and at triple the bandwidth of DDR3 it seems that any discussion about which is better has become largely moot. I'm not a tech specialist. I'm reasonably savvy so can follow the debate even if I don't completely understand the subtleties. So give this analysis as much weight as it deserves.

On top of this Sony's console is reported to have a significantly more powerful graphics chip and is apparently much easier to develop for than the PS3 was. Sony appears to have learned their lesson after 2 generations of exotic architecture and gone with a more conventional design.

Xbox is rumoured to have a stronger CPU, and their choice of low latency memory is reportedly better for general purpose computing so it might not be as one sided as current speculation would have us believe.

I should probably note at this point that the next gen Xbox's reported specs are still based on leaked documents. It is possible that things have changed. but the same sources who leaked these specs were almost right on the money about PS4 (except for the quantity of memory, which appears to be last minute revision).

From where we stand it looks like PS4 will be significantly more powerful than the next Xbox, but we'll have to wait at least until MS do their unveiling to be sure what their offering's spec sheet looks like (assuming they release it). Whichever is more powerful, both are beasts compared to the current generation of consoles (plus WiiU) and whatever side of the fanboy divide we find ourselves (if any) there is plenty to be happy about.

sroey: There is a new camera. It is stereo for better depth tracking and should work better with the Move controller: for those who are into that sort of thing.

The mad thing is that we are still probably the best part of a year away from release and already the tribes of rabid fanboys from both camps are sharpening their poisoned pens. I happen to find fanboy wars incredibly entertaining as a spectator sport. I can only imagine how much fun things are going to be as things develop.


Sorry mate only just seen this post, although I was aware of the spec details you've listed.
I don't think there is much doubt that Sony will make a console which on pure performance would out perform the xbox, but that was also the case for the 360. The big development from Sony is that apparently the cell processor is out and they back to basically default PC architecture meaning devs can actually write for it.
The only thing with the spec war that I can see is that due to incredible costs in developing games you would program for the lowest demonstration (ie xbox) and port to the highest spec. It may run slightly smoother but it will have been developed for Xbox architecture.
The likely result is the same as this generation that unless a game is exclusive and coded just to the Playstation all that lovely processing and graphical power will be kept unused until the next Drake or Gran Tourismo (although 6 was confirmed to be PS3 which I think may change)is released.




However rumours are the neXbox will use a preportion of it RAM for Kinect 2 and a Windows 8 operating system? If true then the neXbox will have about 5 gig of disposable ram for it gaming. One blogger was claiming the PS4 will able to do 1080p gaming at 60fps while the neXbox will only manage 720p 60 fps. I don't know if true but I do know MS is no longer focusing on games but instead a download service. It's a shame because MS spent huge amount of money making the original Xbox stand out as a great gaming machine, the first few years of the 360 life was excellent when it came to games. However the way MS being messing about with the 360 in the last few years had been horrible. It got to the stage I was thinking about going PC. At this moment I am more likely to buy a Wii U instead of the neXbox. It's my opinion but others too are speaking out their frustration over Xbox quality dropping.


In my opinion MS has drifted the Xbox away from a game console to more of a multi media center.


(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 272
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 22/3/2013 9:03:14 AM   
borstal


Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: its grom up nirth
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulyboy

It's implied that the console will have a low power stand-by type feature, always staying connected and downloading patches, updates, pre-loading games and allowing an instant resume type feature so that you're never waiting for anything, it's not too disimilar from some of the stuff Sony talked about in their press conference.



Didn't the Wii have something like that?

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Post #: 273
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 22/3/2013 3:56:05 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1168
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

Sorry mate only just seen this post, although I was aware of the spec details you've listed.
I don't think there is much doubt that Sony will make a console which on pure performance would out perform the xbox, but that was also the case for the 360. The big development from Sony is that apparently the cell processor is out and they back to basically default PC architecture meaning devs can actually write for it.
The only thing with the spec war that I can see is that due to incredible costs in developing games you would program for the lowest demonstration (ie xbox) and port to the highest spec. It may run slightly smoother but it will have been developed for Xbox architecture.
The likely result is the same as this generation that unless a game is exclusive and coded just to the Playstation all that lovely processing and graphical power will be kept unused until the next Drake or Gran Tourismo (although 6 was confirmed to be PS3 which I think may change)is released.



If the Xbox rumours are true (and it's looking increasingly likely they are) the basic architecture of both systems is remarkably similar. They have very similar CPUs and their GPUs are also closely related. The major difference, as noted, is the memory system. If you develop for one system's architecture you are by and large developing for the other. It is very different to developing for the PS3 and Xbox360 where the architectures are different in almost every respect.

The running slightly smoother bit is interesting as that would be a switch around from the PS3/360, as often multi platform titles ran slightly better or had additional effects on the 360.

Seeing as the systems are so similar in so many ways, I expect the closest current comparison is running a PC game with slightly different spec hardware. They both run the same code but one runs it better than the other. Some effects have to be turned down or off to keep framerates up, or you need to run at lower resolution. The notion of catering to the lowest common denominator seems a little pessimistic. I expect that they'll aim above both system's specs (especially if there is to be a PC port) and optimise each version to each system's capabilities: which is pretty much what happens now.

Thing is most of us, who are more interested in the games than analysing every single individual pixel, won't notice any difference between the two. It will be only the ultra hardcore who worry about slight discrepancies in performance. But with that crowd if one version is even slightly inferior it automatically becomes all but unplayable.


(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 274
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 27/3/2013 8:16:11 AM   
borstal


Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: its grom up nirth
From a gaming point of view...

More players online
No loading times
More shit going on at once

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Post #: 275
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 27/3/2013 9:32:40 AM   
sroey


Posts: 1483
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think the NextBox will have a few surprises up its sleeve, in terms of sheer horsepower anyway.

If they show some BF4 running on it then I'll squeal like a little girl. I'm pre-ordering ASAP!!


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Post #: 276
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 11:52:46 AM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 8004
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
Some more rumours regarding the always online business for the nextbox.

CLICKY

If this gets confirmed then I'm out of the next gen altogether. It is still only a rumour at this point though so I'm hoping it all turns out to be bollocks.

Except, Microsoft's Creative Director hits back at negative reaction to the prospect of always online, which kinda give the rumours more traction to be honest.

CLICKY

What a cunt. Yeah, I will deal with it dickhead by not buying your company's product.

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Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

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Post #: 277
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 12:05:48 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2602
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

What a cunt. Yeah, I will deal with it dickhead by not buying your company's product.



Those Twitter comments of his are..............worrying, what is he, fucking 12?

Doesn't bode well, here's hoping he's just shooting his mouth off and talking bollocks.

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Post #: 278
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 12:53:27 PM   
James2183


Posts: 10544
Joined: 30/9/2005
If the always connected rumours are true then the PS4 will be next console of choice. I can understand why some software is 'always connected' (MMORPG's etc) but for a piece of hardware to be the same is not on, at least not yet. The infrastructure is not there yet and will alienate a lot of people - perhaps 5/6 years down the line maybe.

Obviously we don't know what is going to happen until they are confirmed but it's quite disheartening to hear the same sort of rumours cropping up and MS not denying them.



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Post #: 279
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 1:21:26 PM   
Peter Griffin


Posts: 2901
Joined: 30/9/2005
I'm not gonna lie to y'all i'm a technophobe, so what does all this 'always connected' jargon mean...in the common tounge?

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Post #: 280
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 1:24:23 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 8004
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
If you're internet is down or the Microsoft servers are down you won't be able to use your console (if the rumours are true).

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to Peter Griffin)
Post #: 281
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 1:29:04 PM   
Peter Griffin


Posts: 2901
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

If you're internet is down or the Microsoft servers are down you won't be able to use your console (if the rumours are true).

Or if you don't have internet access you can't play it?
Wow that's....poop.

_____________________________

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"Me and Pete Griffin would make a beautiful Dead Space ass kicking baby."

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Post #: 282
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 3:02:18 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1168
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Griffin

Or if you don't have internet access you can't play it?
Wow that's....poop.


Just a few illustrations of why it is potentially a bad idea.

The recent Sim City debacle showed how bad this can get if the infrastructure isn't up to demand. The game was rendered unplayable on release when the servers weren't up to it.

When the PSN went down for a few weeks a couple of Capcom's games, which required "always on" authentication were unplayable.

I still have a NES in a cupboard. If I want to play Super Mario Bros. I can set it up, put the game in and play. This is 25 years after I bought the thing. Will we be able to do the same in 25 years when all the servers will have long since decommissioned? I doubt it.

This all-digital brave new world could become a massive digital black hole if the powers that be aren't careful.

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Post #: 283
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 3:43:42 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4314
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

If the always connected rumours are true then the PS4 will be next console of choice.



Yeah, same here, although I really don't want to buy a PS because I don't like their control pads (I know that sounds silly). That Orth prick actually claims he was just bantering with 'friends', but he could just be trying to save face. Clearly he's not in marketing or public relations. I can't see this happening to be honest, the risks seem too great. Here's hoping, anyway, as the notion appears to wrench gaming control out of the hands of actual gamers. I hear it could also be a ploy to prevent piracy and second-hand gaming, which just sounds absurd.

Suddenly I have an urge to bust out the old Gamecube.

_____________________________

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Post #: 284
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 3:51:12 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 8004
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978


I still have a NES in a cupboard. If I want to play Super Mario Bros. I can set it up, put the game in and play. This is 25 years after I bought the thing. Will we be able to do the same in 25 years when all the servers will have long since decommissioned? I doubt it.


That's the clincher for me. If, and it still is an if (albeit a slight one by now), the rumours are true then Microsoft will effectively have the power to force you either out of gaming or into buying the next generation by shutting their servers down rendering your hardware useless. If true it absolutely boggles the mind that there's a single person out there that's ok with this.

quote:

This all-digital brave new world could become a massive digital black hole if the powers that be aren't careful.


Yep, I'd be surprised if Microsoft go through with this following the Diablo 3 and Sim City debacles, it just seems like madness. Of the 70 million 360 users out there only half of them are online. I can see this attempt at ripping away the power of the consumer backfiring monumentally. Basically, Sony's best marketing tool for the PS4 at the moment are Microsoft.

_____________________________

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Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

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Post #: 285
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 3:53:21 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 8004
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

If the always connected rumours are true then the PS4 will be next console of choice.



Yeah, same here, although I really don't want to buy a PS because I don't like their control pads (I know that sounds silly). That Orth prick actually claims he was just bantering with 'friends', but he could just be trying to save face. Clearly he's not in marketing or public relations. I can't see this happening to be honest, the risks seem too great. Here's hoping, anyway, as the notion appears to wrench gaming control out of the hands of actual gamers. I hear it could also be a ploy to prevent piracy and second-hand gaming, which just sounds absurd.

Suddenly I have an urge to bust out the old Gamecube.


Not to me. If these reports are true then that's me out as far as the next gen is concerned. I despise using the dual shock pads and won't even consider buying a PS4 because of it.

< Message edited by Harry Tuttle -- 5/4/2013 4:20:45 PM >


_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

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Post #: 286
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 4:15:29 PM   
Angelus


Posts: 799
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The Pit
I'm hoping what Microsoft mean by this "always on" thing is similar to the PS Plus feature to download game patches and system updates at a certain user-defined time. If not, I'm less likely to get the new Xbox. I think I may just build a beast of a gaming PC instead.

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Post #: 287
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 4:29:43 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2602
Joined: 30/9/2005
Had to share this, shamelessly stolen from the Eurogamer comments section on this story:



< Message edited by paulyboy -- 5/4/2013 4:30:00 PM >


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Post #: 288
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 4:32:51 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2602
Joined: 30/9/2005
I also have to give props to the Sony CEO for posting this today:



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Post #: 289
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 4:33:05 PM   
From_Hell


Posts: 1577
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: The foot of the MegaTree

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

If the always connected rumours are true then the PS4 will be next console of choice.



Yeah, same here, although I really don't want to buy a PS because I don't like their control pads (I know that sounds silly). That Orth prick actually claims he was just bantering with 'friends', but he could just be trying to save face. Clearly he's not in marketing or public relations. I can't see this happening to be honest, the risks seem too great. Here's hoping, anyway, as the notion appears to wrench gaming control out of the hands of actual gamers. I hear it could also be a ploy to prevent piracy and second-hand gaming, which just sounds absurd.

Suddenly I have an urge to bust out the old Gamecube.


Not to me. If these reports are true then that's me out as far as the next gen is concerned. I despise using the dual shock pads and won't even consider buying a PS4 because of it.


Same here, I just can't use the PS control pads. If the rumours are true then I think I'll just hoover up a nice pile of cheap Xbox 360 games off Ebay and sit the next generation out.

As someone previously mentioned, Microsoft won't comment on the rumours so all this is generating a nice lot of hype for them. I'd like to think they'll charge in on a shiny white steed, finally announce the existence of the new Xbox and discount all these foolish 'always on the internet' rumours.

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Post #: 290
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 4:37:35 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2602
Joined: 30/9/2005
I still don't think they'll actually do it, I just don't see how, the logistics and long-term ramifications are mind-boggling when you start thinking about them.

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Post #: 291
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 5/4/2013 4:40:38 PM   
From_Hell


Posts: 1577
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: The foot of the MegaTree
If they do do it, how would they sell it to the consumers? How would it 'enhance my gaming experience'?

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Post #: 292
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 6/4/2013 8:15:41 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4314
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
This made me smile:

http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/13821/article/dear-adam-orth-you-just-don-t-get-it-a-letter-from-an-australian/

_____________________________

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'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to From_Hell)
Post #: 293
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 6/4/2013 8:47:40 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8327
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: From_Hell

If they do do it, how would they sell it to the consumers? How would it 'enhance my gaming experience'?


They'd just do what they've done with always-on DRM games so far - tell you it'll provide an 'unparalleled immersive/organic/social/involved gaming experience'. There's enough mugs out there who'll fall for that guff

(in reply to From_Hell)
Post #: 294
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 6/4/2013 8:54:14 AM   
Angelus


Posts: 799
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The Pit
http://www.quickmeme.com/Always-Online-Adam-Orth/?upcoming

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Post #: 295
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/4/2013 9:50:37 AM   
From_Hell


Posts: 1577
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: The foot of the MegaTree
New Xbox rumoured to be announced on 21st May, and a cheaper Xbox 360:

http://www.oxm.co.uk/51962/rumour-xbox-720-reveal-date-is-21st-may-microsoft-also-planning-new-99-xbox-360-stingray/



_____________________________

"What are you gonna do?"

"What I do best. I'm gonna kill 'em. Anyone that was involved. Anybody who profited from it. Anybody who opens their eyes at me."


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Post #: 296
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/4/2013 10:39:00 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4314
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: From_Hell

New Xbox rumoured to be announced on 21st May, and a cheaper Xbox 360:

http://www.oxm.co.uk/51962/rumour-xbox-720-reveal-date-is-21st-may-microsoft-also-planning-new-99-xbox-360-stingray/



So according to this tech-blogger's "notes" the new Xbox will be "always on"? Despite many people saying what a bad idea this'll be for Microsoft, financially more than anything else. But then there's also this cheaper, slimmer 360 which will play 360 games only? This seems odd, as surely those of us who already have 360s but don't want an "always online" 720 will just keep our current models?

I don't know....


_____________________________

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'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

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Post #: 297
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/4/2013 2:14:54 PM   
sroey


Posts: 1483
Joined: 30/9/2005
Ok this is getting a bit silly if you ask me. Always on to play games would be a huge mistake. Everyone knows this.

However it is the whole of the internet that has gone into a rage claiming that is what is meant by 'always on'. MS never comment on these stories. Ever. Never have done and never will. It doesn't help speculation I understand but that wont change.

Always on more than likely means a low power state and auto updates. Plus offering all the wonders if online functionality while being used. That is what I read from 'always on' and the PS4 requires it for its share button for example. Play a game offline and try to share something? Wont work.

The comments from Adam Orth were bad PR for MS and wont help calm the growing shit storm that seems to be on the horizon over this. MS should announce something now to calm these fears, I do honestly think its a massive overreaction from people on this subject that has given it legs - it will all be ok

(of course if MS do announce a console that requires an internet connection to actually play through a game then I'll happily stand corrected and shocked!!)


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Post #: 298
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/4/2013 2:38:30 PM   
Chief


Posts: 7779
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee
With the always online thing, and I suppose they could do it now (and surprised they don't), what's to stop MS running 3rd party advertising banners during gameplay? I'm talking about a McDonalds banner or something running along the bottom of the screen while you play, or in between matches or something.

(in reply to directorscut)
Post #: 299
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 8/4/2013 8:46:41 PM   
James2183


Posts: 10544
Joined: 30/9/2005
Always online is no doubt the future, but not for this generation. It's got to be at least another 5 years until the infrastructure is there to sustain it.

My internet connection is pretty good but if this XBox proves to be 'always online' I will not buy it out of principal.

_____________________________

Hey bub, I aint finished with you yet!

"We do not beat the reaper by living longer. We beat the reaper by living well and living fully" - Randy Pausch

(in reply to Chief)
Post #: 300
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