Star ratings is too blunt an instrument

Follow @empiremagazine

Forum Home

Register for Free!

Log In

Moderator Tickets

FAQ

Users Online

Star ratings is too blunt an instrument

Logged in as: Guest

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Feedback] >> Empire Magazine >> Star ratings is too blunt an instrument

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Star ratings is too blunt an instrument - 29/12/2011 9:51:51 PM

joeheath11

Posts: 5
Joined: 29/12/2011

I've read many of your reviews and while the star ratings are usually spot on, I can't help but feel like we'd all feel a little more satisfied if it was out of 10 stars not 5. Far too many movies are clumped together in the 4s or 5s when they're actually widely different in quality.

Post #: 1

RE: Star ratings is too blunt an instrument - 29/12/2011 10:27:39 PM

elab49

Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005

This seems to have been something of an issue with reviewers generally of late - some don't give star ratings at all, but just the narrative of their opinion on the film and let the reader judge.

On this board, individual posters use 10, 5 or even 4, whichever they feel most comfortable with, and I'm sure there are pros and cons for them all. I tend to use 10, but even at that I still add .5s, which probably technically makes it a 20 scale. At least one poster uses even smaller fractions!

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

Films watched 2012

What are your top 10/25 films of 2012? Vote in the forum Annual Poll now! Deadline is Sunday.

(in reply to joeheath11)

Post #: 2

RE: Star ratings is too blunt an instrument - 30/12/2011 3:13:13 PM

Timon

Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

I personally don't think Empire should use star ratings. at all. People treat them as such a 'cut and dry' way of determining what a movie is going to be like. I prefer to read the reviewer's personal thoughts rather than looking at the "quick star rating guide".

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 3

RE: Star ratings is too blunt an instrument - 31/12/2011 3:50:11 PM

Super Hans

Posts: 2291
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Watford

I don't have a problem with star ratings at all really. They give a quick indication and for some films, that's all you need. If it's a film that you have even an ounce of interest in, you'll read the full review anyway.

I suppose marks out of 10 my give a more granular scale but to be honest, when a star rating is just a snapshot summary of the overall opinion on the film, why make it so complicated? 5 star system works fine - 3 stars is good/average, anything more is above average, anything less is below average.

What does piss me off is when people on the film review threads get all "ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW CAN THEY GIVE MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 4 3 STARS WHEN THEY GAVE MI2 3 STARS 10 YEARS AGO AND THAT WAS SHIT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" A review is somebody's opinion of a film, at that moment in time. Two films can quite easily get the same star rating, but one be better than the other. Get a grip!

_____________________________

"Its staring at you in the face Mark, there's only one more sex to try..."

(in reply to Timon)

Post #: 4

RE: Star ratings is too blunt an instrument - 3/1/2012 5:12:36 PM

rick_7

Posts: 5708
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

This seems to have been something of an issue with reviewers generally of late - some don't give star ratings at all, but just the narrative of their opinion on the film and let the reader judge.

On this board, individual posters use 10, 5 or even 4, whichever they feel most comfortable with, and I'm sure there are pros and cons for them all. I tend to use 10, but even at that I still add .5s, which probably technically makes it a 20 scale. At least one poster uses even smaller fractions!�

Wow, those guys sound awesome. I want to be in their gang. Oh wait, I am.

_____________________________

*Wendy Hiller fanboy*

Blog

"I doubt very much that you used to play Russian Roulette 'all the time, with your father'."

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 5

I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and not 10 - 6/1/2012 2:41:03 PM

joeheath11

Posts: 5
Joined: 29/12/2011

call me a cynic,but it's to make sure they don't piss the studios off and get exclusives or interviews turned down.

Let's take a mediocre movie like Mission Impossible 4 which received 3 out of 5 in Empire.

Readers are happyish with that, it's fair. Studio is probably happy, because 3 out of 5 is a good film.

Let's imagine it was out of 10, which means in Empire's eyes its either a 5 or a 6 out of 10.

In my book it's almost certainly a 5 out of 10. But who's going to see a 5 out of 10 movie?? Few

The studio wouldn't be too happy with that would they.

Sticking with the useless 5 star format they can give it a 3 out of 5 and keep everyone happy.

Blunt is good because it means they can give crap movies a rating that won't compromise their obligation to provide an objective critique.

What do you say Empire??

(in reply to rick_7)

Post #: 6

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 6/1/2012 2:59:50 PM

elab49

Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005

3 out of 5 is a good film? I'd put it down as OK or average, myself.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

Films watched 2012

What are your top 10/25 films of 2012? Vote in the forum Annual Poll now! Deadline is Sunday.

(in reply to joeheath11)

Post #: 7

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 6/1/2012 8:42:59 PM

joeheath11

Posts: 5
Joined: 29/12/2011

quote:

elab49[/quote

According to Empire 3 star is a good film, not me.

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 8

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 6/1/2012 8:46:09 PM

elab49

Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005

Do you think the studios with all that money invested would agree?

(in reply to joeheath11)

Post #: 9

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 6/1/2012 8:53:06 PM

joeheath11

Posts: 5
Joined: 29/12/2011

If a studio had the choice between 3 out of 5 and 5 out of 10 which would they prefer? All I'm saying is that while the readers would prefer an out of 10 measure, sticking with out of 5 placates everyone who cares. The reader is satisfied, the magazine is satisfied they're not compromising their duty to provide an objective review and the studio is happy their lame film hasn't been branded a flop

< Message edited by joeheath11 -- 6/1/2012 8:54:15 PM >

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 10

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 8/1/2012 9:25:37 PM

Private Hudson

Posts: 1720
Joined: 30/9/2005

Sorry probably sound like an old fart here, but as someone who has been an online member of Empire since 1997 and bought every issue since number 2 (I can't recall when I subscribed but must be about 1999)...

Empire reviews are what they are. Keep it at out of 5 stars.

I don't buy Empire for the reviews, if you do or did then you are a bigger mug than Prince Phillip's Whisky Jug.

Reviews are subjective, so forget them.

I have bought Empire over the years for their movie news about films in production and indeed ones that could or should be made. And that is why Empire is better than Hot Dog or Total Film. They give us great extras and behind the scenes info, interviews etc with actors and directors.

Empire obviously HAS to review the latest releases on film or DVD, but I have never, EVER took any notice. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence wouldn't.

The Empire reviewer/editor who was the biggest twit in my opinion was Andrew Collins, who I would love to meet if only to stuff replica popcorn down his smug mouth. He wrote for EastEnders. Nuff said.

Forget the reviews and concentrate on Empire's glorious content.

_____________________________

Watch my spoof movie of FULL METAL JACKET here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGRWVvM-Zo&feature=plcp&context=C31ca298UDOEgsToPDskJ4_UorjolrWTaxEGMj5GO0

(in reply to joeheath11)

Post #: 11

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 13/1/2012 12:24:19 PM

Helen OHara

Posts: 3477
Joined: 15/9/2005

Apologies if I sound like a broken record here.

Star ratings ARE a blunt instrument. For nuance, read the review. But they're also a handy guide to the review, to give you a rough idea what we think. If we marked out of 10 or 100, they wouldn't cease to be a blunt instrument because numbers are ALWAYS a blunt instrument when we're talking about either art or entertainment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is simply wrong. It's subjective.

*sigh* Libel again. We don't give star ratings to keep studios happy. They often aren't happy, but over the more than 20 years of this magazine's life they have learned that we don't care whether they're happy with star ratings or not, and that reviews are ring-fenced from all feature and interview considerations. They also understand, I think, that our readers' trust is tied up in how much they trust our reviews, and that it would ultimately be self-defeating to try to bully us into changing our minds.

For the record, I really enjoyed MI: GP, and frankly would have given it four stars. Immaculately paced and amazing stunts for my money. Just goes to show how people of good character even within this office can disagree on star ratings.

_____________________________

"I never understood drinking. It isn't good for your looks, and it cuts down on what you are. I never wanted to cut down on what I am." - Mae West

"Movies are forever, and sex doesn't last" - Mae West.

(in reply to Private Hudson)

Post #: 12

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 13/1/2012 1:11:19 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19969
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

When did Empire get people of good character in the office?!

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.

TREK WARS

(in reply to Helen OHara)

Post #: 13

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 13/1/2012 1:47:29 PM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2166
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

I really prefer the 5 star system and tend to resent the broadsheet approach of no rating at all. My own personal catechism is that I prefer to watch a film as blind as possible, yes I want to get a sense of a film's appreciation but I don't want to read reference to the beats in a film until I've seen it myself. Sure, I'll read a review of a film I had no previous knowledge of, or interest in if it scores well. I'm also still fascinated by three star reviews to see what broadly constitutes a deal-breaker between very good and good. The five star system is therefore the perfect shorthand.for that. Loftier critics might sniff at a scoring system as superficial and unneccesarily reductive but that gives no credit to the viewer who wants to make up their own mind as unbiased as possible. I've stopped getting Sight and Sound with any regularity because of the "review ambush" which they make no little or no contingency for. I think marks out of ten are really only convenient for the people interested in ranking films from a hobbying point of view. Outside of that I think it runs into a kind of neurosis, as though I only have a tenner to spend on cinema this year so I need to be told in decimals what's really worth it.

_____________________________

"I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit."

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)

Post #: 14

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 14/1/2012 8:34:10 PM

rich

Posts: 4137
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

The problem is not the method of rating. The problem is, as usual, people declaring that the journalist is wrong because they don't agree with them. I honestly don't see a problem with ratings that are cleary defined (excellent, good, okay, bad, terrible) and besides, the narrative of the article itself will always lend itself to a certain point of view regardless. Personally I think 10/10 stars is terrible way to do things.

_____________________________

THINGS
WRITINGS

(in reply to demoncleaner)

Post #: 15

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 14/1/2012 8:53:46 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

I rate this thread 3 stars.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to rich)

Post #: 16

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 14/1/2012 8:58:04 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6220
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

I gave it five stars. I was bribed by the thread starter.

_____________________________

C*** and mocker of board members since March, 2011

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to Spaldron)

Post #: 17

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 16/1/2012 5:11:59 PM

jackcarter

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/1/2006

***** star reviews work best, so much so even TF switched to it after doing out of 10 for abit.

some random Empire rating 'mistakes' over the years (with hindsight and IMO i must stress!)

Phantom Menace - **** (shouldve been a *** but now is online so thats all right

)
Attack of the Clones - ***** - (shouldve been **** at most but again now a *** online)
Superman Returns ***** - (a **** at most)
Gladiator **** (an instant ***** film no doubt about it)
Batman Begins - same (although it is marked as ***** online now)
Casino Royale - same
Quantum - **** (no way - *** max)
Batman & Robin - *** (a ** or even * - was instantly dreadful - although its gone down to ** online now)
Alexander - **** (*** or even ** been more apt)
Pearl Harbour - **** (a ** wouldve been right)
Miami Vice - **** (was ok but *** star material)
Matrix 2 - **** (*** - but then thats with the hindsight of seeing the 3rd one too)
Hulk - **** / Incredible Hulk - *** (switch those round)
Star Trek I - ** (harsh - id have said ***)
Star Trek II - **** (a ***** star film if ever theres been one)
Star Trek III - *** (worth a good **** imo)
Star Trek VI - *** (id say **** be about right)
Star Trek Generations - ** (like Trek I prob deserved a ***)
Star Trek First Contact - *** (easily a ****)
Star Trek Insurrection - **** (worst Trek shouldve been light years behind FC - about a **)
Star Trek Nemesis - *** (again ** wouldve been enough)
Alien 4 - *** (an easy ** - was very disappointing even back then)
AvP - ** (id have given it a *** for at least being more entertaining than A3/A4)
MI3 - *** (based on MI2 getting ***, MI3 shouldve been a **** and prob same for MI4 too, unless change MI2 to ** then works out ok)
X2 - **** (since X1 was **** then X2 should really have got the *****)
Wolverine - ** (bit harsh, a *** wouldve been ok - but then have to raise XM:FC to a ****)
Iron Man - *** (id have thought a ****)
Terminator 4 - **** (id have said a solid *** like T3)
Sherlock - *** / Sherlock 2 - **** (**** and *** wouldve been about right)
Robin Hood - **** (abit of a slog getting through it - ***)
Cowboys/Aliens - **** (started off well but a *** overall)

< Message edited by jackcarter -- 18/1/2012 1:15:19 PM >

(in reply to MonsterCat)

Post #: 18

RE: I've cracked it - i know why they do 5 stars and no... - 17/1/2012 12:52:51 AM

elab49

Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005

But now you are kind of proving the point (and honestly admitting it) that part of the problem isn't 'mistakes' as you put it but just disagreements (which you've openly admitted, which is a dramatic improvement on a lot of these threads!

).

The online bit is normally DVD reviews, often by different reviewers or even the same reviewer who is revisiting a film that isn't as impressive to them 2nd time around or actually strikes them as better on 2nd viewing.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

Films watched 2012

What are your top 10/25 films of 2012? Vote in the forum Annual Poll now! Deadline is Sunday.

(in reply to jackcarter)

Post #: 19