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Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:24:57 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
Um
Post #: 1
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:25:38 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
Hello? *Knock knock* Hellllooooo?

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Post #: 2
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:25:57 PM   
jonson


Posts: 9150
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

Um


Bongo?

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RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:28:36 PM   
shool


Posts: 10158
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
This thread is a continuation of discussion from the below.

http://www.empireonline.com/forum/tm.asp?m=3256672&mpage=8&key=&NID=32581#3263757


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Post #: 4
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:29:02 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
Oh God.

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Post #: 5
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:30:30 PM  1 votes
Biggus


Posts: 7639
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Not Local

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

Um


...bilical cord (also called the birth cord or funiculus umbilicalis) is the connecting cord from the developing embryo or fetus to the placenta. During prenatal development, the umbilical cord is physiologically and genetically part of the fetus and (in humans) normally contains two arteries (the umbilical arteries) and one vein (the umbilical vein), buried within Wharton's jelly. The umbilical vein supplies the fetus with oxygenated, nutrient-rich blood from the placenta. Conversely, the fetal heart pumps deoxygenated, nutrient-depleted blood through the umbilical arteries back to the placenta?

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Post #: 6
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:31:25 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I like the Last Temptation of Christ. And not just because it shows boobs. 

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RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:32:39 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
I liked Signs, and that was a film about religious aliens. Or something. I don't know, I didn't quite understand what was going on.

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Post #: 8
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:32:56 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

But now you're implying that Britain has no Christians in it? Granted we're not as religious as the US, but the UK is not as militantly atheist as you believe.


The British 10 pound note has an image of Charles Darwin on it. American currency has 'In God we trust' inscribed on it.

I think there is a notable distinction here.

I also want to make clear my religious view. On the religious scale of 1 - 10, 1 being 100% religious and 10 being 100% atheist or non-theist et al, whilst 5 is agnostic. I would be a 9. There is no evidence to disprove the existence of a supernatural creator therefore I cannot commit to 10. If the day arrives that I discover the evidence of such a being I will rejoice in the profoundness of that discovery.

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Post #: 9
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:34:28 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
Are there boobs? that's it I'm watching it!

Oops, did I just allude key information pertaining to my gender.

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Post #: 10
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:36:19 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
I like to describe my religious views as being sat on the fence of agnosticism, but with my legs dangling in the garden of atheism.

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Post #: 11
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:37:02 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

The Englebert debate is being continued below.


It concerns me that this debate is known by some as such, I personally viewed it as a discussion between a myriad of people. Not just myself.

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Post #: 12
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:39:36 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

The Englebert debate is being continued below.


It concerns me that this debate is known by some as such, I personally viewed it as a discussion between a myriad of people. Not just myself.


It would be fair to say that it was instigated by you though, no? I wouldn't take it personally.

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Post #: 13
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:40:56 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

I liked Signs, and that was a film about religious aliens. Or something. I don't know, I didn't quite understand what was going on.

quote:

I liked Signs, and that was a film about religious aliens. Or something. I don't know, I didn't quite understand what was going on.
in

Were they religious? I missed that. It's been a while. I just remember the freaky aliens reflection in the tele.

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Post #: 14
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:41:48 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
No, I was being facetious. It obviously was a film about religion though.

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 15
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:43:17 PM   
Vitamin F

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Norn Ireland, so it is

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

Um


That's the new Beckham boy-perfume, isn't it..?

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Post #: 16
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:44:01 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

The Englebert debate is being continued below.


It concerns me that this debate is known by some as such, I personally viewed it as a discussion between a myriad of people. Not just myself.


It would be fair to say that it was instigated by you though, no? I wouldn't take it personally.



I was a newbie. I've read empire for years but never bothered posting anything about an article online. Until, I heard that story. I was compelled to write, not realising or anticipating that anyone would respond. There are so many empty forums on the internet.

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Post #: 17
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 3:57:32 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

This is very interesting. I would say to you Englebert that there is nothing stopping you or any 'non-believers' from going out and making movies
about what you or they do or don't believe in. Isn't that what all filmmakers do anyhow? The reality of the world you and I live in is that this religion is the most popular one. It happens to be one that I believe in and as such I am glad that these stories are being adapted into movies so that more people can be touched, and hopefully coe to understand the truth. If you were to prevent movies like this from being made, that in itself would be a crime against freedom of expression, to express what one believes in. It's like George Orwells 1984. So why is Hollywood overtaken by religious people as you claim? because religious people are smart. That's why. And since they're there, they will make films about what they want and what they believe in. If you want to make films about your beliefs or faith in atheism then pick up a camera and go for it. All the best to you.


I don't really know how to respond to this Pencilton. Scarily, I'm at a loss as to how I should rebut....

Maybe, i''ll begin with this statement '
quote:

If you were to prevent movies like this from being made, that in itself would be a crime against freedom of expression, to express what one believes in.'


Propaganda films exist or have existed in the past right? Can we at least agree on that? Think of the Nazi cinema that Tarantino alludes to in Inglorious Basterds. Clearly, the Nazis thought they were right. As such, they made films about their values which were projected nationally. Fortunately for other countries, cinema wasn't as international then, so it stayed in Nazi Germany. But I do wonder about the Germans who disagreed with the regime but were pressured socially into not discussing it. Now however, we live in a much more globalised world. The media permeates our daily lives and as such I simply hope that the media and western cinema is inclusive of the diversity of cultures and world-views that exist. Perhaps you don't, I don't know. I think it would be a shame if you don't.

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Post #: 18
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 4:09:57 PM   
shool


Posts: 10158
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
I guess my main criticism with your argument is that I dont believe Aronofsky is making a propaganda film. He is telling one of the most well known storys from the worlds most printed book.
Without getting into the stories basis for truth or myth, the story itself is an interesting one and worthy of a portrayal. Aronofsky can handle spiritual matters well without pushing any particular beliefs on the viewer.


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Post #: 19
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 4:15:11 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

Nonetheless, I think research in mass-media or simple google searches are appropriate for the topic at hand as I'm discussing popular culture and religious influence in western cinema. I'm not really concerned about what ideas are infiltrating academia or a discipline therein. Maybe you are. What kind of research would you suggest?



quote:



ORIGINAL: clownfoot


The kind that doesn't involve cherry-picking.


I appreciate good research but if all you need is a simple google search to make a specific point then why do more?

If I wanted to write an empirical academic article, then I would do greater research. But i've written enough of those for the time being and feel liberated to have a discussion that doesn't simply draw from academia but from pop culture. I think it's important to discuss things in terms of popular media, and to evaluate the information that is prominent in mass media, whether a newspaper article or film. This is literature that is relevant to a broader community of people than academics. I'm particularly interested in this forum because people in here value popular culture, western cinema (and beyond for some). I particularly think Empire readers enjoy mainstream cinema first and foremost, and part of my motivation for writing in this thread initially is that I feel that mainstream cinema and the culture therein may be threatened by some who have a religious bias. As I have stated before, I love allusions to religions in cinema i.e The Da Vinci Code, but when you adapt a biblical story that makes scientific claims that it could be construed are interconnected with present day global and ecological issues, I have an issue with this.


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Post #: 20
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 4:30:14 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
I love allusions to religions in cinema i.e The Da Vinci Code, but when you adapt a biblical story that makes scientific claims that it could be construed are interconnected with present day global and ecological issues, I have an issue with this.


I think you are putting too much emphasis on the notion that this story will be presented as a scientific "This is what really happened kids" documentary. The flood story is a commonplace myth, I don't know many people who truly believe a man called Noah gathered every animal in the world on a boat. It's a story.

< Message edited by superdan -- 9/12/2011 4:31:25 PM >

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Post #: 21
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 4:40:01 PM   
FoximusPrime

 

Posts: 399
Joined: 11/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

...but when you adapt a biblical story that makes scientific claims that it could be construed are interconnected with present day global and ecological issues, I have an issue with this.




I think the main issue with your argument is that you're providing the parable of Noah with the air of legitimacy by referring to its "scientific claims" when, as any sane individual knows, the Bible contains nothing that can be considered as such: despite the best efforts of the whole "intelligent design" and creationism movement, their approach boils down to "a wizard did it". Rather, the Bible is merely a collection of moral tales, some of which tell a cracking story. Like a pre-television Twilight Zone.

Of course, your concerns were about the not-so-sane among us who might be swayed by a motion picture. However, I have to believe that - as a rule - people aren't that thick (despite seeing evidence to the contrary every time I see anything to do with reality TV). Plus there's been nothing to suggest that the Noah film in question will be some kind of sinister docu-drama or propaganda film, merely a work of fiction.

I agree with previous comments that a mainstream film like this isn't going to convert militant atheists or even agnostics to "the cause" anymore than a film in which Aronofsky pops up occasionally on camera to break the fourth wall by saying, "You know this is all bullshit, right?" will convert fundamentalist religious whackos to question their belief system.

I would also point out that, like Superdan, my legs also dangle in the garden of atheism. Catholic-raised agnostic (if I had to label myself) who thinks the whole God and heaven thing is a nice idea but can't get around his common sense.

< Message edited by FoximusPrime -- 9/12/2011 4:44:06 PM >


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RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 5:14:53 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

I guess my main criticism with your argument is that I dont believe Aronofsky is making a propaganda film. He is telling one of the most well known storys from the worlds most printed book.
Without getting into the stories basis for truth or myth, the story itself is an interesting one and worthy of a portrayal. Aronofsky can handle spiritual matters well without pushing any particular beliefs on the viewer.



Yes, I think so too. He probably wont. But then maybe not. I'm not 100% on Aronofsky, and this partly informs my concerns. If this film was being made by Woody Allen, I'd actually be looking forward to it. If Chris Nolan was doing it, I'd wonder why but be patient to see what he does. Aronofsky though is difficult because he has the ability to make his point very sharply and in a highly visceral style.In films such as Black Swan and Requiem, I tend to feel claustrophobic as they are so visceral and leave you little space to move and find different ways of engaging and understanding the film.

The Fountain however is more of an open realm to interpret and form different understandings of.

Of his films, I've seen Pi, Requiem for a Dream, The Fountain and Black Swan. I do want to see The Wrestler.

When I watched Requiem for a Dream at the cinema, I walked out of the cinema halfway through it. I don't do that often but was adamant on that occasion. I felt it well and truly overused the heroin fix montage, that it glamourised heroin by using attractive male and female leads and a fashionably stylised cinematic style and it made one point over and over again.That being substance addiction and abuse ruins lives and relationships. I think the same about Trainspotting. If heroin addiction were as hip as that films style, but it isn't, it's disgusting. I lived in Edinburgh fir two years and worked next door to a clinic. They weren't running around listening to Iggy Pop. They were lying on the cathedral stairs pale as ghosts.



quote:

I think you are putting too much emphasis on the notion that this story will be presented as a scientific "This is what really happened kids" documentary.



Yeah, see this is a point I never meant to make. I have looked back through some of my previous posts to double check and I've come up empty. The point you interpret is certainly a point that could be made, but I implore you to check again as I fear it is not a point I have made. I've often been criticised on that very point, so you're not alone in the interpretation.

Perhaps the points I've made are too abstract.

Here they are again summarised and in point form. Please take your pick and rebutt, but please lay to rest the notion of presentation as scientific fact or the brainwashing of anybody. I never made this point and don't believe it to be true.

1.) A film about Noah's Ark, could validate the beliefs of creationists and religious zealots the world over, as it celebrates and or makes relevant their religion and world-view in the 21st century. This has dangerous implications for how we as a global community understand ecological issues. This has dangerous implications in the American political debate, one that's implications go beyond their borders, do I need to explain?

2.) I have concerns about aspects of this story due to the educational climate currently in the U.S.A and beyond. This educational climate is one in which many science teachers are scared to discuss evolution in the high school or university classroom due to fear of losing their jobs. The result of evangelical parent lobbys. This is real, For verification please research it in both a channel or means you find suitable and to the degree that you find satisfactory. I am an Australian teacher, last year I taught science, the same kind of pressure exists their. Evolution is left out as it causes too much contraversy.

3.) If Aronofsky's portrayal of the Noah's Ark story omits all of the bold scientific claims, then it could be considered religious revisionism. There are problematic repercussions of this which I have previously mentioned but wont now. This point should be considered specifically in the context of point 4 specifically the short video.

4.) If Aronofsky's portrayal of the Noah's Ark story includes the scientific claims about animals, then it could both perpetuate points 1 and 2, which should be considered in the context of the U.S.A's political climate which in turn has major ramifications for the broader western and international community.
Here is a short clip that sums up precisely why I am concerned about movies based on Biblical stories being made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAJNntoRgA

5.) A Noahs Ark story could be good and may not have any ramifications, but it's important for cinephiles to remain diligent and be critical of filmmakers and their motivations. They might make films about gods but they are not gods themselves.

6.) I may have other points in the old forum, but I can't remember them right now.


< Message edited by Englebertnightingale -- 9/12/2011 8:59:33 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 5:33:21 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1108
Joined: 14/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

Nonetheless, I think research in mass-media or simple google searches are appropriate for the topic at hand as I'm discussing popular culture and religious influence in western cinema. I'm not really concerned about what ideas are infiltrating academia or a discipline therein. Maybe you are. What kind of research would you suggest?



quote:



ORIGINAL: clownfoot


The kind that doesn't involve cherry-picking.


I appreciate good research but if all you need is a simple google search to make a specific point then why do more?

If I wanted to write an empirical academic article, then I would do greater research. But i've written enough of those for the time being and feel liberated to have a discussion that doesn't simply draw from academia but from pop culture. I think it's important to discuss things in terms of popular media, and to evaluate the information that is prominent in mass media, whether a newspaper article or film. This is literature that is relevant to a broader community of people than academics. I'm particularly interested in this forum because people in here value popular culture, western cinema (and beyond for some). I particularly think Empire readers enjoy mainstream cinema first and foremost, and part of my motivation for writing in this thread initially is that I feel that mainstream cinema and the culture therein may be threatened by some who have a religious bias. As I have stated before, I love allusions to religions in cinema i.e The Da Vinci Code, but when you adapt a biblical story that makes scientific claims that it could be construed are interconnected with present day global and ecological issues, I have an issue with this.





< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 9/12/2011 5:34:17 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 5:34:56 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

1.) A film about Noah's Ark, could validate the beliefs of creationists and religious zealots the world over, as it celebrates and or makes relevant their religion and world-view in the 21st century. This has dangerous implications for how we as a global community understand ecological issues. This has dangerous implications in the American political debate, one that's implications go beyond their borders, do I need to explain?

Hyperbole. You are drawing farfetched conclusions based on pure assumption about a film which hasn't even begun shooting. If anything, a film about Noah's Ark would probably strengthen the hand of Climate Change campaigners.

quote:


2.) I have concerns about aspects of this story due to the educational climate currently in the U.S.A and beyond. This educational climate is one in which many science teachers are scared to discuss evolution in the high school or university classroom due to fear of losing their jobs. The result of evangelical parent lobbys. This is real, For verification please research it in both a channel or means you find suitable and to the degree that you find satisfactory. I am an Australian teacher, last year I taught science, the same kind of pressure exists their. Evolution is left out as it causes too much contraversy.


Evolution being left out of classrooms is a political and social matter, and bears no relevance to (yet another) adaptation of a Biblical parable. I am not a researcher, so I will use my own anecdotal evidence just as you have and say that we were not specifically taught evolution, since everyone knew about it and accepted it as fact anyway. Again, no-one I have ever known has maintained that the Bible is fact, and evolution is fiction.

quote:


3.) If Aronofsky's portrayal of the Noah's Ark story omits all of the bold scientific claims, then it could be considered religious revisionism. There are problematic repercussions of this which I have previously mentioned but wont now. This point should be considered specifically in the context of point 4 specifically the short video.

4.) If Aronofsky's portrayal of the Noah's Ark story includes the scientific claims about animals, then it could both perpetuate points 1 and 2, which should be considered in the context of the U.S.A's political climate which in turn has major ramifications for the broader western and international community.
Here is a short clip that sums up precisely why I am concerned about movies based on Biblical stories being made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAJNntoRgA



I honestly have no idea what these bold scientific claims you keep mentioning are. And seriously, Rick Parry? America has always had religious fruitloops, it isn't a sign of some kind of contagion.

quote:


5.) A Noahs Ark story could be good and may not have any ramifications, but it's important for cinephiles to remain diligent and be critical of filmmakers and their motivations.


You have made assumptions of Aranofsky's motivations. If he had gone on record saying he wanted to 'spread the message of the Bible' or something you may - may - have a point, but he hasn't. He's just making a film based on a story in the Bible. And he will probably be like the thousandth director to have done so.


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Post #: 25
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 5:38:43 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
Yeah, not following you Dirk.

If you're just reading my posts to find loopholes, then you're wasting both of our time and I'm not really impressed by your discussion input or argument. If you thing my arguments flawed take a leaf out of Superdans book and challenge it thoughtfully instead of scanning it for contradictions. That also is important but in this case you haven;t found one.


We are talking about popular culture. A google search can be a valid means of researching a point. In my case It was.

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Post #: 26
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 5:47:34 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10890
Joined: 30/9/2005
The Song of Bernadette, amazing film.

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Member of the TMNT 1000 Club.

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Post #: 27
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 5:51:09 PM   
garvielloken


Posts: 1189
Joined: 23/10/2011
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale


quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

I guess my main criticism with your argument is that I dont believe Aronofsky is making a propaganda film. He is telling one of the most well known storys from the worlds most printed book.
Without getting into the stories basis for truth or myth, the story itself is an interesting one and worthy of a portrayal. Aronofsky can handle spiritual matters well without pushing any particular beliefs on the viewer.



Yes, I think so too. He probably wont. But then maybe not. I'm not 100% on Aronofsky, and this partly informs my concerns. If this film was being made by Woody Allen, I'd actually be looking forward to it. If Chris Nolan was doing it, I'd wonder why but be patient to see what he does. Aronofsky though is difficult because he has the ability to make his point very sharply and in a highly visceral style.In films such as Black Swan and Requiem, I tend to feel claustrophobic as they are so visceral and leave you little space to move and find different ways of engaging and understanding the film.

The Fountain however is more of an open realm to interpret and form different understandings of.

Of his films, I've seen Pi, Requiem for a Dream, The Fountain and Black Swan. I do want to see The Wrestler.

When I watched Requiem for a Dream at the cinema, I walked out of the cinema halfway through it. I don't do that often but was adamant on that occasion. I felt it well and truly overused the heroin fix montage, that it glamourised heroin by using attractive male and female leads and a fashionably stylised cinematic style and it made one point over and over again.That being substance addiction and abuse ruins lives and relationships. I think the same about Trainspotting. If heroin addiction were as hip as that films style, but it isn't, it's disgusting. I lived in Edinburgh fir two years and worked next door to a clinic. They weren't running around listening to Iggy Pop. They were lying on the cathedral stairs pale as ghosts.






Those films hardly make heroin look hip. Yes it looks great for a while, which is how heroin probably feels at the beginning but then it turns horrible and disgusting after some time. I mean c'mon the end of Requiem isn't exactly glamourising drugs, most people tend to feel like shit after seeing that. Pulp Fiction does glamourise it a bit though when Travolta drives around off his head. There are consequences for Mia when she has an overdose but in Tarantinos magic movie world it all works out great.


_____________________________

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Razzle them, dazzle them. Razzle dazzle them.



(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 28
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 5:53:55 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
Perhaps she had schizophrenia. Many mental illnesses weren't recognised or acknowledged until the later part of the 20th century. Interestingly the Catholic Church helped stifle the acceptance and tolerance of people with special needs in the west. It was only in the 1960's that at many Catholic churches began to allow people with down syndrome into the church.

(Research enthusiasts, You might be happy to know that I did a presentation at university on this, so no google searches for this point. Good old fashioned research.)

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Post #: 29
RE: Religion and Cinema, and the implication thereof. - 9/12/2011 5:55:52 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: garvielloken

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale


quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

I guess my main criticism with your argument is that I dont believe Aronofsky is making a propaganda film. He is telling one of the most well known storys from the worlds most printed book.
Without getting into the stories basis for truth or myth, the story itself is an interesting one and worthy of a portrayal. Aronofsky can handle spiritual matters well without pushing any particular beliefs on the viewer.



Yes, I think so too. He probably wont. But then maybe not. I'm not 100% on Aronofsky, and this partly informs my concerns. If this film was being made by Woody Allen, I'd actually be looking forward to it. If Chris Nolan was doing it, I'd wonder why but be patient to see what he does. Aronofsky though is difficult because he has the ability to make his point very sharply and in a highly visceral style.In films such as Black Swan and Requiem, I tend to feel claustrophobic as they are so visceral and leave you little space to move and find different ways of engaging and understanding the film.

The Fountain however is more of an open realm to interpret and form different understandings of.

Of his films, I've seen Pi, Requiem for a Dream, The Fountain and Black Swan. I do want to see The Wrestler.

When I watched Requiem for a Dream at the cinema, I walked out of the cinema halfway through it. I don't do that often but was adamant on that occasion. I felt it well and truly overused the heroin fix montage, that it glamourised heroin by using attractive male and female leads and a fashionably stylised cinematic style and it made one point over and over again.That being substance addiction and abuse ruins lives and relationships. I think the same about Trainspotting. If heroin addiction were as hip as that films style, but it isn't, it's disgusting. I lived in Edinburgh fir two years and worked next door to a clinic. They weren't running around listening to Iggy Pop. They were lying on the cathedral stairs pale as ghosts.






Those films hardly make heroin look hip. Yes it looks great for a while, which is how heroin probably feels at the beginning but then it turns horrible and disgusting after some time. I mean c'mon the end of Requiem isn't exactly glamourising drugs, most people tend to feel like shit after seeing that. Pulp Fiction does glamourise it a bit though when Travolta drives around off his head. There are consequences for Mia when she has an overdose but in Tarantinos magic movie world it all works out great.


quote:

Those films hardly make heroin look hip. Yes it looks great for a while, which is how heroin probably feels at the beginning but then it turns horrible and disgusting after some time. I mean c'mon the end of Requiem isn't exactly glamourising drugs, most people tend to feel like shit after seeing that. Pulp Fiction does glamourise it a bit though when Travolta drives around off his head. There are consequences for Mia when she has an overdose but in Tarantinos magic movie world it all works out great.



I think you make a thoughtful and balanced point.

(in reply to garvielloken)
Post #: 30
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