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RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 10/1/2012 9:51:06 AM   
borstal


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I think the red was harsh but thats the risk a player takes when sliding in studs up. Its Kompanys fault, he's a better player than that.

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Post #: 91
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 11/1/2012 11:36:28 PM   
Frank Castle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kata




that quite clearly is a straight red im baffled that there's even a argument about it?? jumping 2 feet into a tackle makes no diffrence if you get the ball or not.

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Post #: 92
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 11/1/2012 11:43:51 PM   
Saltire


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Its a good tackle simples...

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Post #: 93
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 12/1/2012 10:55:28 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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I thought it was a good tackle at the time. But I was listening to a podcast this morning (Football Ramble) and the point was made, could that have been a series injury IF Nani had not jumped out of the way. Looking at the video above and the angle and speed Kompany is moving, I have to go back on my initial impression and say that if Nani had not had the forethought to get the hell out of the way (which actually then allows Kompany to win the ball cleanly) it could have been a nasty injury, so actually the red card is imo still harsh, but probably fair. Luckily Rooney was able to make this decision on the spot, without any need for replays

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Post #: 94
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 12/1/2012 11:03:11 AM   
Frank Castle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltire

Its a good tackle simples...


Its a red card simples...

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Post #: 95
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 12/1/2012 11:23:15 AM   
directorscut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle


quote:

ORIGINAL: kata




that quite clearly is a straight red im baffled that there's even a argument about it?? jumping 2 feet into a tackle makes no diffrence if you get the ball or not.


1) He doesn't lunge in with two feet. He doesn't extend his left foot until Nani is well past him.

2) At no point in the FIFA laws of the game does it ever say a two footed tackle is an instant red card offense. A tackle (either one-footed or two-footed) must have have excessive force and endanger the safety of the opposing player for a tackle to be an instant red card. Kompany's tackle did neither.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/lotg_en_55753.pdf

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Post #: 96
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 12/1/2012 11:39:02 AM   
Olaf


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While you're correct in saying there's no specific reference to two-footed challenges, it's not really accurate to say that the tackle didn't endanger the opposing player - Kompany's going in at ankle height so if Nani didn't get out of the way of the tackle, a break wouldn't have been out of the question.

quote:

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play. [...] The referee shall send off the player guilty of serious foul play when the ball is next out of play.


That said, it's difficult to distinguish between FIFA's definition of 'reckless' (yellow card) and 'excessive force' (red card) when contact is avoided, as in situations like this (and the Johnson tackle last night). While I think the red card is harsh, as someone who saw both the Eduardo and Ramsey breaks as they happened I can understand why the FA would want to create a deterrent for players who'll go in with studs up (not that Kompany is usually guilty of this, of course). If anything, having a high-profile incident like this allows a discussion on the issue and might make the Huttons and Cattermoles of the league think twice before flying in.

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Post #: 97
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 18/1/2012 7:55:33 AM   
jonson


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At last, a win at home. Shame we can't do it in the league. For the record, while Leicester were good, Forest were awful, and I mean awful. I can't see them surviving this season if that's how they play every week.
Fuck them though, bring on Swindon in the next round!

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Post #: 98
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 18/1/2012 9:14:26 AM   
Goodfella


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Were you the Leicester fan dancing around in just his white boxers last night jonson!?

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Post #: 99
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 18/1/2012 9:44:52 AM   
jonson


Posts: 9011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

Were you the Leicester fan dancing around in just his white boxers last night jonson!?


no mate, I didn't see him. I wish I had recorded the match actually as it was a decent game (for Leicester anyway )

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Post #: 100
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 18/1/2012 10:22:29 AM   
Flatulent_Bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

Were you the Leicester fan dancing around in just his white boxers last night jonson!?


no mate, I didn't see him. I wish I had recorded the match actually as it was a decent game (for Leicester anyway )


At Jonson's age the only time he has white boxers is when they are in the drawer.

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Post #: 101
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 28/1/2012 9:45:34 AM   
jonson


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thanks Bob, I thought you'd been round sniffing my underwear drawer again.

Anyway, Swindon at home today, the mighty ref-pushing ball-catching short fuse DiCanio, sitting about 10 yards in front of me, just testing us to see how much we can wind him up.
Hopefully we'll win, we should do in reality against a team 2 leagues below us, however the FA Cup is the FA Cup, so nothing taken for granted, I'm looking forward to seeing is Swindon are as good as I'm led to believe, but anything less than being in the next round would be a disaster. The league is more important but a good Cup run is, ahh bollocks, fuck the cliches, let's batter them

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Post #: 102
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 28/1/2012 5:54:06 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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I actually thought the Liverpool Utd game was a bit of a let down. It had all the tempo and hoopla of a big cup game / derby match, but there was damn all skill on show. Quite a few players invisible, one or two playing well below the standard you'd expect at this level. As a cup game it worked, but as a game of football, I've seen a lot better.

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Post #: 103
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 30/1/2012 7:47:01 AM   
jonson


Posts: 9011
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

I actually thought the Liverpool Utd game was a bit of a let down.


Yeah, I saw the second half in the pub, didn't seem that great. Anyway, The Most Hated Team In Britain beating the old Most Hated Team In Britain was hardly getting me excited anyway.

Unlucky to Paulo Di Canio and his Swindon lot on Saturday. We didn't play well but just did enough, their fans however were pretty great, must have been 4 thousand of them and they seemed to be enjoying themselves. I like being smug and patronising when I can, so I'll just say I'm glad the weather was nice for their big day out.

So, I watched the draw live, let's get the Racists or Tottenham at home, or Stevenage or Crawley (a bye for anyone surely?) but no, we get the dullest draw in the dullest place in the dullest county in Enlgand. It's not a big enough game to be exciting but in all honest I can't see us beating Norwich.
Never mind.




Liverpool v Brighton & Hove Albion
Everton v Blackpool/Sheffield Wednesday
Chelsea v Birmingham City
Crawley Town v Stoke City
Stevenage v Tottenham Hotspur
Norwich City v Leicester City
Sunderland/Middlesbrough v Arsenal/Aston Villa
Millwall or Southampton v Bolton Wanderers



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Post #: 104
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 30/1/2012 10:12:02 AM   
JIm R

 

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Decent outcome for us and would be hopeful we could get through and maybe another final ? No major teams drawn against each other so next round will be interesting.

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Post #: 105
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 30/1/2012 10:21:39 AM   
jediwarrior


Posts: 20016
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From: At home eating twiglets

quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

Decent outcome for us and would be hopeful we could get through and maybe another final ? No major teams drawn against each other so next round will be interesting.


Quite right Jim. The quarter final could have some top games if all the big teams win.

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Post #: 106
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 19/2/2012 6:08:35 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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Managed not to watch any of the cup games or highlights this weekend. I was busy, but think I just don't care. There's just no magic in the FA Cup. I might watch the semis, but really that was a good excuse to do some other stuff before the Premiership returns next weekend.

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Post #: 107
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 19/2/2012 6:42:05 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17202
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Whilst it's a great result in terms of what they have achieved, it is far from ideal timing for Stevenage. There's a clutch of rearranged League One games coming up over the next to three or four weeks (we play Saturday and Tuesday for the next 21 days for example) and I'm sure their priority is to seal a play-off spot and now they have to sandwich in a replay, although it'll be a great evening for the club and it's supporters at WHL. Still they won't be too happy with the fact they've just added to what is already a very busy looking run-in for us lower league clubs. Congrats to them though, I wish them all the very best at Spurs.

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Post #: 108
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 7:54:18 AM   
jonson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

There's just no magic in the FA Cup.


Do you not think? I think that argument gets put to bed every year on 3rd Round Day. I love it I do.
Yesterday was a perfect example - Stevenage Vs Tottenham. A draw and a replay? Against one of the best teams in the country?
Sure, easy for me to day, we're still in it, but even for a humble club like Leicester (and we are bigger than 90% of the teams that play in the FA Cup) the fact we are 1 game from Wembley and likely to be playing at Chelsea next round, is brilliant. Last time we played them in the FA Cup we lost 4-3 to a last minute Schevchenko goal, but it was one of the best football day outs I've had.

My honest opinion is the magic in the FA Cup is getting better. I'm getting fed up of the big teams, the obscene wages, the petty fall outs, the constant media attention, the lack of respect and the arrogance. The last 2 weeks has seen the most depessing bullshit I've witnessed as a football fan, I've about had enough, I'm falling out of love for the game...........until this weekend. Birmingham and Stevenage drawing, Leicester winning, Brighton's equalizer, Crawley Town's support. It was an enjoyable football weekend in my opinion, and just the tonic we needed after the last 2 or 3 weeks of non-stop crap.

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Post #: 109
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 1:33:44 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

There's just no magic in the FA Cup.


Do you not think? I think that argument gets put to bed every year on 3rd Round Day. I love it I do.
Yesterday was a perfect example - Stevenage Vs Tottenham. A draw and a replay? Against one of the best teams in the country?
Sure, easy for me to day, we're still in it, but even for a humble club like Leicester (and we are bigger than 90% of the teams that play in the FA Cup) the fact we are 1 game from Wembley and likely to be playing at Chelsea next round, is brilliant. Last time we played them in the FA Cup we lost 4-3 to a last minute Schevchenko goal, but it was one of the best football day outs I've had.

My honest opinion is the magic in the FA Cup is getting better. I'm getting fed up of the big teams, the obscene wages, the petty fall outs, the constant media attention, the lack of respect and the arrogance. The last 2 weeks has seen the most depessing bullshit I've witnessed as a football fan, I've about had enough, I'm falling out of love for the game...........until this weekend. Birmingham and Stevenage drawing, Leicester winning, Brighton's equalizer, Crawley Town's support. It was an enjoyable football weekend in my opinion, and just the tonic we needed after the last 2 or 3 weeks of non-stop crap.


Its a good rebuttal. The Leicester result was one that I was sure put a smile on your face.

As noted above, I didn't watch any of the games, see any highlights, listen to it on the radio, follow it on the web, or read any paper reports. So all of this could be crap, but....

I really get the idea that for many clubs the FA Cup is an inconvenience. So, great result from Stevenage, but what team did Spurs field? Was this their full team, or did Harry take the opportunity of resting players & not risking injury when they are still potentially in a position to challenge for the league title. I'll take the argument that any Spurs team should be favourites and whatever team was out for them, its a great result for Stevenage, but are Spurs really going for the FA Cup? And I do apologise if all their top players, played. But right now, I see more chance of Spurs winning the FA Cup than the league, but I'm guessing they didn't treat the game as such.

Leicester 1 game away from Wembley is fantastic. Genuinely I'm very pleased for you. But it is still wrong for me that the semis are at Wembley. Don't get me wrong, great for the fans who are going to travel to the match, but for me watching on TV (possibly) a semi-final at Wembley devalues the competition. There should be one day at Wembley, it should be the final and I should be watching 7 hours of coverage before kick-off including a Saint and Greavsie special

I think for many clubs, the Premier League title, or finishing top 4, or not getting relegated, or making the play-offs from the Championships is valued much more importantly than trying to win the FA Cup. So, in the top two divisions it kind of feels like over 50% of managers wouldn't really be too upset if they got knocked out of the cup. Okay, they may not want to go 3rd round, as that's a real blot on their season, but do they really truly want to stay in it and win it, or is it a bit of an inconvenience?

Maybe its just ITV and Adrian Chiles that put me right off. But I didn't miss not watching it at all this weekend. So, its a personal experience, but I'm not feeling the magic. Of course, it may also be that I'm fed up with the BS of the last couple of weeks and have lost the magic of football

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Post #: 110
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 1:38:49 PM   
superdan


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You can guarantee if they put a CL place up for grabs for winning the FA Cup the 'big' teams would start taking it a lot more seriously.

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Post #: 111
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 1:42:10 PM   
Olaf


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Aren't Crawley Town like the L2 version of Man City with a dodgy owner? Having tons more cash than all of your immediate rivals isn't really that magical. Nice to see the Leicester/Stevenage results though.

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Post #: 112
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 1:46:31 PM   
Olaf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

You can guarantee if they put a CL place up for grabs for winning the FA Cup the 'big' teams would start taking it a lot more seriously.


I hope they don't do this (and I'm not just saying this as an Arsenal fan, ha). The teams who finish in the top four over the course of a season have done a lot more to earn a CL place than a team who's had to win five matches. Take this season's FA Cup for instance - is it really a fair indication of the winner being one of the top teams if there's no Man City or Man Utd? If Chelsea come fourth and Liverpool win the FA cup (to take an example), have Liverpool really done more to be in the CL next season?

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Post #: 113
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 1:50:34 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10289
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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

You can guarantee if they put a CL place up for grabs for winning the FA Cup the 'big' teams would start taking it a lot more seriously.


I flip and flop on this. On the one hand, qualification for the CL is pretty much BS anyway, as the 4th place club in the EPL is usually about 20 points behind the actual winner, they are only champions of not being as bad as the 16 teams below them over a season. And I agree, more teams would try harder, imo.

The Europa League seems to be something that some clubs go out of their way to try to avoid as that really is a tricky competition, from the point of view of how many games need to be played, when the season starts, the amount of travel, playing on a Thursday night and then having City and Utd dropped into the competition half way through

On the other hand. How many games would you have to win to qualify? What if you were a losing semi-finalist, but the other 3 teams were the top 3 in the league. Still get a Champions League place? Even further from being a champion than finishing 4th in the league? If you are Chelsea and you beat Leicester, Birmingham, Portsmouth to get to the semis, is that really a great way to qualify for the Champions League?

I think teams should just try to win the bloody cup! As a fan, I'd probably rather have a memorable day out at Wembley and a chance to win something, than settle for 17th in the EPL, but be blessed with the income that brings and looking forward to the opportunity to fight against relegation again next season.

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Post #: 114
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 2:00:39 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8229
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

On the other hand. How many games would you have to win to qualify? What if you were a losing semi-finalist, but the other 3 teams were the top 3 in the league. Still get a Champions League place? Even further from being a champion than finishing 4th in the league? If you are Chelsea and you beat Leicester, Birmingham, Portsmouth to get to the semis, is that really a great way to qualify for the Champions League?


I know what you mean, but the Cup Winners Cup was a prestigious affair back in it's day so I don't think it matters that much. I would rather see the Cup winners in the so-called CL than 4th place since (as you say) 4th isn't any kind of real 'achievement'. It's not even a podium place ffs. The Europa League is an absolute joke of a competition, designed to maintain the hegemony of the elite (read:most lucrative) clubs.

quote:


I think teams should just try to win the bloody cup! As a fan, I'd probably rather have a memorable day out at Wembley and a chance to win something, than settle for 17th in the EPL, but be blessed with the income that brings and looking forward to the opportunity to fight against relegation again next season.


Also agree. If I were a footballer at a club and the manager treated the Cup competition(s) as distractions that would really piss me off. The whole point of football is to try and win trophies, or at least it used to be.

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Post #: 115
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 2:27:13 PM   
matty_b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

You can guarantee if they put a CL place up for grabs for winning the FA Cup the 'big' teams would start taking it a lot more seriously.


And then you'd have the cup won by the big teams season in, season out.

I mean, it more or less is anyway, but there's always a half-decent chance that someone will upset the odds.

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Post #: 116
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 2:36:01 PM   
benmharper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

I think teams should just try to win the bloody cup! As a fan, I'd probably rather have a memorable day out at Wembley and a chance to win something, than settle for 17th in the EPL, but be blessed with the income that brings and looking forward to the opportunity to fight against relegation again next season.


I think a lot of players would too. I heard an interview with an ex-player (forgot who it was now) who said he'd rather have one cup winners medal than a few 4th place league finishes so he has a medal to show the Grandchildren.

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Post #: 117
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 2:45:24 PM   
superdan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

You can guarantee if they put a CL place up for grabs for winning the FA Cup the 'big' teams would start taking it a lot more seriously.


And then you'd have the cup won by the big teams season in, season out.

I mean, it more or less is anyway, but there's always a half-decent chance that someone will upset the odds.


When was the last time it was won by a team outside the top division? Honestly, the last time I can remember a genuine upset in the Cup final was when Everton won it in '95, and they were still a PL team. My problem is when you have managers treating it as though it's a chore, as though they actually want to fall out of the competition, when finishing 17th or in the playoffs is more important. As a fan ,I find it unbelievably depressing.

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Post #: 118
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 2:47:19 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10289
Joined: 6/10/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

You can guarantee if they put a CL place up for grabs for winning the FA Cup the 'big' teams would start taking it a lot more seriously.


And then you'd have the cup won by the big teams season in, season out.

I mean, it more or less is anyway, but there's always a half-decent chance that someone will upset the odds.


When was the last time it was won by a team outside the top division? Honestly, the last time I can remember a genuine upset in the Cup final was when Everton won it in '95, and they were still a PL team. My problem is when you have managers treating it as though it's a chore, as though they actually want to fall out of the competition, when finishing 17th or in the playoffs is more important. As a fan ,I find it unbelievably depressing.


Portsmouth the other year Do we have to go back to Trevor Brooking's header in 1980 otherwise?

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Post #: 119
RE: The FA Cup 2011/12 - 20/2/2012 2:50:43 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8229
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty


Portsmouth the other year Do we have to go back to Trevor Brooking's header in 1980 otherwise?



I thought Portsmouth were still in the PL that year My mistake.

Edit: They were! Yeah, 1980 was the last time.

< Message edited by superdan -- 20/2/2012 2:52:19 PM >

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Post #: 120
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