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RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:09:29 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

Christianity has been present in movies since filmmaking began, either directly (The Ten Commandments, Passion of the Christ etc) or to varying degrees of subtlety (Matrix, E.T. etc). I don't see why it should be a big deal now, and I don't perceive it as any kind of pernicious threat.


I haven't made statements about this trend of religious films being a threat, only the Noahs Ark thread.

As for varying degrees of subtlety, I recognise that a myriad of religions inform our history and popular culture. I recognise and value this.
As such, I have no issues with movies that allude to the variety of religions. None at all. These are literary allusions and as such they make for
highly interesting storytelling, perhaps especially so in cinema.

The direct adaptions of biblical stories however is a different one. I have thoroughly explained what I think about Noah's Ark in previous posts.
I'm specifically concerned with scientific claims and the perpetuation thereof. I'm not concerned with historical claims. Not usually.

There is also a distinction to be made between films like Ten Commandments which were produced in a very different era, the 1950's right?. As for The Passion of the Christ an interesting discussion could be made about that film and it's repercussions, and implications, but not
one I choose to have. Perhaps someone else.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 181
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:20:44 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8253
Joined: 31/7/2008
I'm sorry, you keep shifting the focus of the debate to suit yourself and it's hard to keep up. I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is.

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 182
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:21:53 PM   
shool


Posts: 10076
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
Religion is bad. films about religion are bad.

I think thats the gist of it.

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Post #: 183
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:23:43 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

Religion is bad. films about religion are bad.

I think thats the gist of it.



the gist of what?

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 184
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:24:02 PM   
FoximusPrime

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 11/12/2005
Unless the films are about Jebus - the second most important character in the Bible. Then they appear to be okay.

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Post #: 185
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:25:07 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

is head would've exploded?




That's too funny!

(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 186
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:25:21 PM   
shool


Posts: 10076
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

Religion is bad. films about religion are bad.

I think thats the gist of it.



the gist of what?



your point.

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Post #: 187
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:34:21 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

[quote]Religion is bad. films about religion are bad.

I think thats the gist of it.



the gist of what?



quote:

your point.


If it were that simple a point, I would have used the 8 words you so eloquently used just now, initially.
I think many religions have great aspects, and I believe a lot of people do good and even great things in the
name of religion. I'm only concerned with the scientific claims that religions make and the consequences
of those scientific claims and subsequent understandings for the broader community.


^ That's not an aggressive emboldenment of text, I just want to be clear.

Does that make sense shool?


< Message edited by Englebertnightingale -- 6/12/2011 2:35:01 PM >

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 188
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:39:24 PM   
shool


Posts: 10076
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

[quote]Religion is bad. films about religion are bad.

I think thats the gist of it.



the gist of what?



quote:

your point.


If it were that simple a point, I would have used the 8 words you so eloquently used just now, initially.
I think many religions have great aspects, and I believe a lot of people do good and even great things in the
name of religion. I'm only concerned with the scientific claims that religions make and the consequences
of those scientific claims and subsequent understandings for the broader community.


^ That's not an aggressive emboldenment of text, I just want to be clear.

Does that make sense shool?





It makes sense. I think your point has been made,

I'm just not sure there is much more to say on the matter. You have your perspective, however for many others it doesnt matter in the framing of making a movie as it is ultimately entertainment.


< Message edited by shool -- 6/12/2011 2:41:04 PM >


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Post #: 189
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 6/12/2011 2:44:10 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

I'm sorry, you keep shifting the focus of the debate to suit yourself and it's hard to keep up. I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is.


That's interesting. I never really saw this as a debate. More of a discussion. It certainly became a debate though for a while. At which point I defended and further clarified my perspective.

Technically I guess, what this is, is a forum discussing a news item about a movie on Noahs Ark.

As for shifting it to suit myself. Everyone is free in here to discuss whatever they want within the forum guidelines right?
I feel there has been too much emphasis on me and my views personally, but then, I'm simply more talkative than most on this topic.
and there has been a trend of me putting out an opinion and then getting slammed for it and then defending the opinion and clarifying it.

I wrote in the dark knight forum as well, I'm actually hoping someone responds to that, I'd love to discuss Batman.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 190
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 6/12/2011 3:10:45 PM   
Heisenberg

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 7/8/2011
Well, the discussion has finally went all "bell curve" on us for enjoyment of reading.

(in reply to jcthefirst)
Post #: 191
RE: Religious Propaganda - 6/12/2011 3:36:21 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2177
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

Emyr Thy King

thanks for providing a fresh perspective on my arguments. I really appreciate it.


Not as much as how I appreciate this thread. And not at all, just don't get too drunk on stage. The rest of us enjoy this forum theatre, a small step away from full-on fisticuffs a la Punch and Judy.


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(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 192
RE: Religious Propaganda - 6/12/2011 4:03:46 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
Why is this still happening?

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Post #: 193
RE: Religious Propaganda - 6/12/2011 4:27:32 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Why is this still happening?


...because someone on here is bat-shit crazy

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 194
RE: Religious Propaganda - 6/12/2011 4:29:12 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Why is this still happening?


...because someone on here is bat-shit crazy


More than just one person me thinks.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 195
RE: Religious Propaganda - 6/12/2011 4:30:53 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Why is this still happening?


...because someone on here is bat-shit crazy


More than just one person me thinks.


well, let's say king of the bats is about....

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 196
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 8/12/2011 3:33:28 PM   
Pencilton Phoenix

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/12/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

Christianity has been present in movies since filmmaking began, either directly (The Ten Commandments, Passion of the Christ etc) or to varying degrees of subtlety (Matrix, E.T. etc). I don't see why it should be a big deal now, and I don't perceive it as any kind of pernicious threat.


I haven't made statements about this trend of religious films being a threat, only the Noahs Ark thread.

As for varying degrees of subtlety, I recognise that a myriad of religions inform our history and popular culture. I recognise and value this.
As such, I have no issues with movies that allude to the variety of religions. None at all. These are literary allusions and as such they make for
highly interesting storytelling, perhaps especially so in cinema.

The direct adaptions of biblical stories however is a different one. I have thoroughly explained what I think about Noah's Ark in previous posts.
I'm specifically concerned with scientific claims and the perpetuation thereof. I'm not concerned with historical claims. Not usually.

There is also a distinction to be made between films like Ten Commandments which were produced in a very different era, the 1950's right?. As for The Passion of the Christ an interesting discussion could be made about that film and it's repercussions, and implications, but not
one I choose to have. Perhaps someone else.


quote:

The direct adaptions of biblical stories however is a different one. I have thoroughly explained what I think about Noah's Ark in previous posts.
I'm specifically concerned with scientific claims and the perpetuation thereof. I'm not concerned with historical claims. Not usually.

There is also a distinction to be made between films like Ten Commandments which were produced in a very different era, the 1950's right?. As for The Passion of the Christ an interesting discussion could be made about that film and it's repercussions, and implications, but not
one I choose to have. Perhaps someone else.



This is very interesting. I would say to you Englebert that there is nothing stopping you or any 'non-believers' from going out and making movies
about what you or they do or don't believe in. Isn't that what all filmmakers do anyhow? The reality of the world you and I live in is that this religion is the most popular one. It happens to be one that I believe in and as such I am glad that these stories are being adapted into movies so that more people can be touched, and hopefully coe to understand the truth. If you were to prevent movies like this from being made, that in itself would be a crime against freedom of expression, to express what one believes in. It's like George Orwells 1984. So why is Hollywood overtaken by religious people as you claim? because religious people are smart. That's why. And since they're there, they will make films about what they want and what they believe in. If you want to make films about your beliefs or faith in atheism then pick up a camera and go for it. All the best to you.




(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 197
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 8/12/2011 3:54:46 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pencilton Phoenix
It happens to be one that I believe in and as such I am glad that these stories are being adapted into movies so that more people can be touched, and hopefully coe to understand the truth.



Uh oh.



_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Pencilton Phoenix)
Post #: 198
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 8/12/2011 6:35:37 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pencilton Phoenix

This is very interesting. I would say to you Englebert that there is nothing stopping you or any 'non-believers' from going out and making movies
about what you or they do or don't believe in. Isn't that what all filmmakers do anyhow? The reality of the world you and I live in is that this religion is the most popular one. It happens to be one that I believe in and as such I am glad that these stories are being adapted into movies so that more people can be touched, and hopefully coe to understand the truth. If you were to prevent movies like this from being made, that in itself would be a crime against freedom of expression, to express what one believes in. It's like George Orwells 1984. So why is Hollywood overtaken by religious people as you claim? because religious people are smart. That's why. And since they're there, they will make films about what they want and what they believe in. If you want to make films about your beliefs or faith in atheism then pick up a camera and go for it. All the best to you.



Oh Jesus (literally).

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Pencilton Phoenix)
Post #: 199
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 8/12/2011 11:04:31 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7916
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

Nonetheless, I think research in mass-media or simple google searches are appropriate for the topic at hand as I'm discussing popular culture and religious influence in western cinema. I'm not really concerned about what ideas are infiltrating academia or a discipline therein. Maybe you are. What kind of research would you suggest?


The kind that doesn't involve cherry-picking.




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(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 200
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 9/12/2011 11:56:53 AM   
Gazz


Posts: 873
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pencilton Phoenix

This is very interesting. I would say to you Englebert that there is nothing stopping you or any 'non-believers' from going out and making movies
about what you or they do or don't believe in. Isn't that what all filmmakers do anyhow? The reality of the world you and I live in is that this religion is the most popular one. It happens to be one that I believe in and as such I am glad that these stories are being adapted into movies so that more people can be touched, and hopefully coe to understand the truth. If you were to prevent movies like this from being made, that in itself would be a crime against freedom of expression, to express what one believes in. It's like George Orwells 1984. So why is Hollywood overtaken by religious people as you claim? because religious people are smart. That's why. And since they're there, they will make films about what they want and what they believe in. If you want to make films about your beliefs or faith in atheism then pick up a camera and go for it. All the best to you.



Englebert, I think you've been topped on the bat-shit-crazy front!


< Message edited by Gazz -- 9/12/2011 11:57:14 AM >

(in reply to Pencilton Phoenix)
Post #: 201
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 9/12/2011 2:13:43 PM   
FoximusPrime

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 11/12/2005
[image]http://www.lolbrary.com/content/295/shit-just-got-real-9295.jpg[/image]

Or not as the case may be.


< Message edited by FoximusPrime -- 9/12/2011 2:15:56 PM >


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Post #: 202
RE: Comedy bullion gold - 9/12/2011 2:43:20 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
I love this thread, I love this thread so much....

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 203
Where should we go? - 9/12/2011 3:06:17 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
I've been advised by the moderators not to continue perpetuating this thread in this area. Could a moderator please confirm this consensus?

I'd like to respond to a few things particularly Pencilton Phoenix, whose name by the way is really cool. But I want to make sure it's okay to continue here. Moderators please advise.




(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 204
RE: Where should we go? - 9/12/2011 3:19:05 PM   
shool


Posts: 10076
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
Yes I think it would probably bes to start a new thread in movie musings for the topic of Religious stories or ideals portrayed in film. Or something similar.

Please feel free to start this thread there.

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Post #: 205
RE: Where should we go? - 9/12/2011 3:22:28 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
thanks shool.

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 206
RE: Where should we go? - 9/12/2011 3:24:52 PM   
shool


Posts: 10076
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
Pleasure.

It might also be worth copy and pasting some highlights from this thread there so people who have missed this thread can pick up and join the discussion.

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"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 207
RE: Where should we go? - 9/12/2011 3:29:50 PM   
shool


Posts: 10076
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
The Englebert debate is being continued below.

http://www.empireonline.com/forum/tm.asp?m=3263758&mpage=1&key=&NID=0#3263762

This thread is now to get back on topic for discussion of the original news story.

_____________________________

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Post #: 208
RE: Where should we go? - 10/12/2011 1:41:03 AM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
This thread sucks now.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 209
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