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RE: Hey Pigeon Army! I like pigeons too. - 1/12/2011 1:45:46 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

You're getting livid with Arts students on an internet forum because we don't believe that a film made by a filmmaker with a proven track record in dealing with spirituality without condoning or promoting religion will make a film promoting religion.



HEY! I am a Arts GRADUATE (Social and Economic History - University of Liverpool, thanks for asking).

Thankyouohsoverymuchy.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Pigeon Army)
Post #: 31
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 1:46:24 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

(I mean my god I found this interview with two seconds of fucking Googling)
Whoah now that's good googling. You're a good googler, nay, in fact a great one.

(in reply to jcthefirst)
Post #: 32
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 1:51:37 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
It's not that he ignores historians Funky - I don't think he perhaps understands 'historiography'.

Science student by the way. Although, for my sins, I do now have a History degree too. Also dyed in the wool atheist of decades standing 

< Message edited by elab49 -- 1/12/2011 1:52:02 PM >


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 33
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 1:52:46 PM   
Pigeon Army


Posts: 14612
Joined: 29/1/2006
From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

I was a bit harsh on Jim. TV's not my strong suite. CBS is that the Christian Broadcasting Station



You are a biting wit sir

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc
She's supposed to be 13! I'd want her to be very attractive though


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
Stop being mean to Deviation

No.

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 34
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 1:58:34 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

I'm glad you said that - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907150931.htm

Science Daily hey. Looks like a pretty hodgepodge html site.

There are a lot of speculative noahs ark articles written in newspapers, and non reputable science journals often science journals written by Christians. The reason being, It sells. Christians are a huge target audience. Noah's ark is a Creationists wet dream.



Of course, that's not proof of an Ark... but maybe, just maybe... it's an analogy. Or a myth.


Hmm, not following your implied meaning here. 'Are you making fun of me Rizzo?'

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 35
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:00:25 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

I'm glad you said that - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907150931.htm

Science Daily hey. Looks like a pretty hodgepodge html site.

There are a lot of speculative noahs ark articles written in newspapers, and non reputable science journals often science journals written by Christians. The reason being, It sells. Christians are a huge target audience. Noah's ark is a Creationists wet dream.



Of course, that's not proof of an Ark... but maybe, just maybe... it's an analogy. Or a myth.


Hmm, not following your implied meaning here. 'Are you making fun of me Rizzo?'



Hang on, did you just say that Christians are a huge target audience for Scientific Journals?

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 36
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:04:21 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3224
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Science student by the way. Although, for my sins, I do now have a History degree too.



Oh well done BTW - I didn't realise you'd finished!

_____________________________

Invisible Text for SPOILERS: "color=#F1F1F1" Spoiler text "/color" , then change the quotation marks to square brackets.


(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 37
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:10:13 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

Hang on, did you just say that Christians are a huge target audience for Scientific Journals?


Yes I did. Here is a link that I do not endorse.

http://www.csmonitor.com/

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 38
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:17:18 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

Hang on, did you just say that Christians are a huge target audience for Scientific Journals?


Yes I did. Here is a link that I do not endorse.

http://www.csmonitor.com/


Sigh. Yes, the CSM and Science Daily are exactly the same.

One is a resource for articles and press releases from unis and scientific institutes, the other is a NEWSPAPER.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 39
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:19:31 PM   
Funkyrae


Posts: 20407
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Just stick a pin in a map
Ti, this is someone who can blithely ignore historical evidence. What on earth makes you think he's going to understand the difference?

_____________________________

That's me that is!


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 40
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:31:15 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

Excellent - you ignore those historians. It makes you so much more credible. In the meanwhile, why not try denying the holocaust or pretending that Hiroshima didn't happen or maybe, I know, forget that there was ever a ship called The Titanic. Or, better still and this is a groovy one, forget that the Hittites, Sumerians and Babylonians ever existed and helped to create the written word because you know, that's just history.

Again, just so as you know, those particular Roman records that you're so casually dismissed are a matter of historical fact and were part of the census and so are written as fact without any religious persuasion.


Funkyrae I hope I didn't strike a nerve. I don't mean to antagonise. But there are some distinctions yet again to be made. If you were to do a census on the international historical community or the international scientific community and you were to ask questions about their deeply held personal beliefs and values, there would be diversity. I don't know this for fact. I write this with a degree of speculation. Please bear with me. I know at least two scientists. Both academics. One is Islamic one is Christian. If the bible makes scientific claims such as turning water to wine (chemistry) returning from the dead (biology) Noah's friggen ark (biological evolution and animal migration), then it should be held accountable for those claims. Yet it isn't. Noah's Ark is particularly important to me because I am passionate about animal welfare. That may seem trivial i.e how can a film about a boat that as pigeon brigade helpfully pointed out, little is known about it's concept or very nature, how can this film be harmful?

It is potentially harmful because, if it is the retelling of noah and the ark and the animals, albeit re-imagined artfully in Aronofsky's style,it is a failed opportunity to tell the true story of the beauty and natural wonder of life on this planet. Simply because it will likely include a human protagonist and if not a deity allusions to one (otherwise why bother with a biblical story?).

Now, somehow I find myself the underdog in this forum. My claims are bold but again the reason is I care that X amount of species become extinct everyday. Aronofsky's film may or may not allude to a deity or the bible but as an American production, can it really afford not to? No one would ever get a film funded in hollywood that could criticize Christianity. I recognise that. I find it strange that seemingly no one else in this forum does. Just think for a moment all of those suspicious best picture wins for the film that wasn't so good but was less controversial than the really good one.

I'm a teacher in Japan. A lady in my community English class is 80 years old. She was around for Hiroshima which is two hours north. Trust me, I believe in recent historical events because we are still so connected to them. But when you go back further and you consult documentation that is often written from religious persuasions. You would be foolish to no reserve at least some skepticism. Now Titanic has an edge over Noah's Ark. They found it at the bottom of the sea. That's called evidence. The Hittites, you've lost me there? who the hell were they?

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 41
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:44:42 PM   
Funkyrae


Posts: 20407
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Just stick a pin in a map
Seriously, if you're only going to believe in recent historical events because there's still a living connection to them then you have major problems mate. You're banging on about creationism and assuming that this will be the intention of the film which has already been stated it won't, yet refusing point blank to see anything past your own, and people around you, timeline.

As for the Hittites, again, seriously?! A bronze age people in Anatolia that had a vast empire, spoke an Indo-European language, wrote in cuniform and written artefacts from that period have proven the migration of language including English.

And as for nobody getting a film funded that criticised Christianity - just off the top of my head here - Dogma?

_____________________________

That's me that is!


(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 42
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:45:59 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

Excellent - you ignore those historians. It makes you so much more credible. In the meanwhile, why not try denying the holocaust or pretending that Hiroshima didn't happen or maybe, I know, forget that there was ever a ship called The Titanic. Or, better still and this is a groovy one, forget that the Hittites, Sumerians and Babylonians ever existed and helped to create the written word because you know, that's just history.

Again, just so as you know, those particular Roman records that you're so casually dismissed are a matter of historical fact and were part of the census and so are written as fact without any religious persuasion.


Funkyrae I hope I didn't strike a nerve. I don't mean to antagonise. But there are some distinctions yet again to be made. If you were to do a census on the international historical community or the international scientific community and you were to ask questions about their deeply held personal beliefs and values, there would be diversity. I don't know this for fact. I write this with a degree of speculation. Please bear with me. I know at least two scientists. Both academics. One is Islamic one is Christian. If the bible makes scientific claims such as turning water to wine (chemistry) returning from the dead (biology) Noah's friggen ark (biological evolution and animal migration), then it should be held accountable for those claims. Yet it isn't. Noah's Ark is particularly important to me because I am passionate about animal welfare. That may seem trivial i.e how can a film about a boat that as pigeon brigade helpfully pointed out, little is known about it's concept or very nature, how can this film be harmful?

It is potentially harmful because, if it is the retelling of noah and the ark and the animals, albeit re-imagined artfully in Aronofsky's style,it is a failed opportunity to tell the true story of the beauty and natural wonder of life on this planet. Simply because it will likely include a human protagonist and if not a deity allusions to one (otherwise why bother with a biblical story?).

Now, somehow I find myself the underdog in this forum. My claims are bold but again the reason is I care that X amount of species become extinct everyday. Aronofsky's film may or may not allude to a deity or the bible but as an American production, can it really afford not to? No one would ever get a film funded in hollywood that could criticize Christianity.


Kingdom of Heaven.

And that's in a post 9/11 world. And it slams those who are fundamentalists of any religion - but especially Christians.



< Message edited by Timon -- 1/12/2011 2:46:40 PM >


_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 43
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:48:04 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Funkyrae

Seriously, if you're only going to believe in recent historical events because there's still a living connection to them then you have major problems mate. You're banging on about creationism and assuming that this will be the intention of the film which has already been stated it won't, yet refusing point blank to see anything past your own, and people around you, timeline.

As for the Hittites, again, seriously?! A bronze age people in Anatolia that had a vast empire, spoke an Indo-European language, wrote in cuniform and written artefacts from that period have proven the migration of language including English.

And as for nobody getting a film funded that criticised Christianity - just off the top of my head here - Dogma?


How disappointed I was when my eyes passed this bit, that it wasn't what I intally thought it was.


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Funkyrae)
Post #: 44
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:52:51 PM   
Funkyrae


Posts: 20407
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Just stick a pin in a map
Another couple just off the top of my head:

Paul
Angels & Demons

_____________________________

That's me that is!


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 45
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:54:44 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

quote:

Excellent - you ignore those historians. It makes you so much more credible. In the meanwhile, why not try denying the holocaust or pretending that Hiroshima didn't happen or maybe, I know, forget that there was ever a ship called The Titanic. Or, better still and this is a groovy one, forget that the Hittites, Sumerians and Babylonians ever existed and helped to create the written word because you know, that's just history.

Again, just so as you know, those particular Roman records that you're so casually dismissed are a matter of historical fact and were part of the census and so are written as fact without any religious persuasion.


Funkyrae I hope I didn't strike a nerve. I don't mean to antagonise. But there are some distinctions yet again to be made. If you were to do a census on the international historical community or the international scientific community and you were to ask questions about their deeply held personal beliefs and values, there would be diversity. I don't know this for fact. I write this with a degree of speculation. Please bear with me. I know at least two scientists. Both academics. One is Islamic one is Christian. If the bible makes scientific claims such as turning water to wine (chemistry) returning from the dead (biology) Noah's friggen ark (biological evolution and animal migration), then it should be held accountable for those claims. Yet it isn't. Noah's Ark is particularly important to me because I am passionate about animal welfare. That may seem trivial i.e how can a film about a boat that as pigeon brigade helpfully pointed out, little is known about it's concept or very nature, how can this film be harmful?

It is potentially harmful because, if it is the retelling of noah and the ark and the animals, albeit re-imagined artfully in Aronofsky's style,it is a failed opportunity to tell the true story of the beauty and natural wonder of life on this planet. Simply because it will likely include a human protagonist and if not a deity allusions to one (otherwise why bother with a biblical story?).

Now, somehow I find myself the underdog in this forum. My claims are bold but again the reason is I care that X amount of species become extinct everyday. Aronofsky's film may or may not allude to a deity or the bible but as an American production, can it really afford not to? No one would ever get a film funded in hollywood that could criticize Christianity. I recognise that. I find it strange that seemingly no one else in this forum does. Just think for a moment all of those suspicious best picture wins for the film that wasn't so good but was less controversial than the really good one.

I'm a teacher in Japan. A lady in my community English class is 80 years old. She was around for Hiroshima which is two hours north. Trust me, I believe in recent historical events because we are still so connected to them. But when you go back further and you consult documentation that is often written from religious persuasions. You would be foolish to no reserve at least some skepticism. Now Titanic has an edge over Noah's Ark. They found it at the bottom of the sea. That's called evidence. The Hittites, you've lost me there? who the hell were they?


You realise that, by definition, you're given the bible more credence than it deserves. Why not simply go with the common idea that it's been debunked as anything more than an often nicely written work of fiction and as open to fictional adaptation as anything?

At the moment your argument is tending towards nothing exists if someone hasn't seen it - I'm assuming that will include disputing the works of great scientists of the past, the discoveries on which others have built. So you'll accept the science but the only person you'll credit with actually working the experiement is someone who's done so/seen it in their lifetime? Which only means one thing. You're never going to be on my team in a general knowledge quiz

I find the adaptation of the DaVinci Code more offensive.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 46
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 2:56:56 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

Oh goody, a call-out. Haven't had one of those in a while. A couple of things.

A) This film hasn't even entered production yet. You're basing your assumptions of 'religious propaganda' based on the twin ideas that "people are stupid" and "Hollywood is a big cabal of Christian propagandists advancing a nefarious agenda". Given Aronofsky's history with filmmaking that, while making overtures towards specific religions, generally focuses on spirituality and its effects on people, and given the fact that this is a project he's building from the ground up, I'd be really damn surprised if this ended up being some kind of vehicle for Catholic propaganda or whatever simply because my assumptions are grounded in an assessment on the facts we have available. Your assumptions are basically Noah = propaganda and you're fitting everything else around it. Ultimately, it's far more likely Aronofsky will treat it as the parable it is rather than some kind of docudrama stating absolute fact.

B) Get off your high horse, "man of science". You're getting livid with Arts students on an internet forum because we don't believe that a film made by a filmmaker with a proven track record in dealing with spirituality without condoning or promoting religion will make a film promoting religion. You need some perspective bro.


Hi Pigeon army. Yes it is difficult in pre-production to determine these things isn't it. My assumptions aren't that 'people are stupid' but that religious people are generally ignorant of scientific evidence, and that people generally are egocentric as a species. Species-centric if you will. As for Hollywood being a cabal etc, I'm interested to know who's funding this enterprise? (can you google it? You're a better googler than I) and I'm also interested in the Motion Picture Association of America. I also don't believe it will be Catholic propaganda but let me illustrate another story. It would be like a film on American history that doesn't include the indigenous people of America. Their views, their values etc. Although a disenfranchised minority group they still have a voice. Animals don't even have that. If this is, and I am speculating, if this is a film about animal migration, then regardless of how aronofskyesque and wonderful it is, it will possibly do a disservice to those who seek to popularize the valuing of animals.

As for the man of science, it does sound a little pompous now you put it like that but, it's true. I am a man and my worldview is understood through scientific rational thinking. I am also a science teacher. Getting livid with arts students in a forum is fun. art students are great thinkers and undervalued. People often say, 'oh arts degrees are useless' I disagree. Arts students are very knowledgable but often struggle to find the best application for that knowledge and understanding.

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 47
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:10:39 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
There are pointless debates and there are pointless debates........


And then there's this.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 48
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:11:52 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
quote:

Seriously, if you're only going to believe in recent historical events because there's still a living connection to them then you have major problems mate. You're banging on about creationism and assuming that this will be the intention of the film which has already been stated it won't, yet refusing point blank to see anything past your own, and people around you, timeline.

As for the Hittites, again, seriously?! A bronze age people in Anatolia that had a vast empire, spoke an Indo-European language, wrote in cuniform and written artefacts from that period have proven the migration of language including English.

And as for nobody getting a film funded that criticised Christianity - just off the top of my head here - Dogma?
quote:



Funkyrae. I want to keep debating with you but you seem to read between my lines a little too much. Try arguing what I actually am writing and not what you think I might mean. I never made a statement that would warrant your rebuttal. Did I say: 'I only believe in recent historical events because there is a living connection to them.' No. I didn't. Did I bang on about creationism? well that depends what you mean by 'bang on'.

As for your explanation about the Hittites. I thank you for that bit of information. You seem to enjoy history, or dare I say, are passionate about history. That's how I feel about animals. If you're so passionate about history then why are we arguing? You should be slamming the Bible for making false historical claims, which it does. Noah and the Ark is a case in point. Dogma! nice one. I'm taking notes I really am. Unfortunately like Prince of Egypt, it's pre 9/11. A time when as I stated earlier, the danger of religious ideas was not as apparent. Give me a post 9/11 one. And yes I got Kingdom of Heaven whoever posted that, touche.

< Message edited by Englebertnightingale -- 1/12/2011 3:13:32 PM >

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 49
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:16:03 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
The Bible isn't a histroical document, but rather a document that informs us about history.

And the Flood myth appears in just about every religion - so either something did happen, or this is an example of the collective myth building at work. Certain ideas and images repeat themselves.


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 50
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:17:46 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The Bible isn't a histroical document, but rather a document that informs us about history.

And the Flood myth appears in just about every religion - so either something did happen, or this is an example of the collective myth building at work. Certain ideas and images repeat themselves.



Like how Star Wars is just repeating Lord Of The Rings, but in space!!!

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 51
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:22:26 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011
a document that informs us about history all the more reason to remain objective about it and to evaluate its messages and most certainly to challenge and question critically its scientific claims.

I don't dispute a flood. Floods happen all the time. There was a big one last year in Australia. What I am contending is that animals are where they are in the world because of a bearded man in a boat. this is something that doesn't happen all the time.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 52
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:25:59 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

a document that informs us about history all the more reason to remain objective about it and to evaluate its messages and most certainly to challenge and question critically its scientific claims.

I don't dispute a flood. Floods happen all the time. There was a big one last year in Australia. What I am contending is that animals are where they are in the world because of a bearded man in a boat. this is something that doesn't happen all the time.


You don't think the Bible have been evalutated, and considered on any number of grounds, including in the science community?

As for the flood myth - there are floods, and there is that Myth. Which is usually a global storm which consumed most of the world.  The survivors are the seeds for the present day. This specific story, some of which even include the use of a large boat can be found in South American, Africa and Asia. It is acknowledged as a myth. The re-telling of a myth is not the same as saying it is true.


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 53
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:27:35 PM   
shool


Posts: 10144
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

And the Flood myth appears in just about every religion - so either something did happen, or this is an example of the collective myth building at work. Certain ideas and images repeat themselves.



This. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Druids of Britain, the Polynesians, the Eskimos and Greenlanders, the Africans, the Hindus, and the American Indians all have Flood stories.

With regards to this being religious propaganda. Dont you think we should wait until the film is made before determining this?

< Message edited by shool -- 1/12/2011 3:30:43 PM >


_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 54
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:33:02 PM   
Englebertnightingale


Posts: 128
Joined: 20/11/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

a document that informs us about history all the more reason to remain objective about it and to evaluate its messages and most certainly to challenge and question critically its scientific claims.

I don't dispute a flood. Floods happen all the time. There was a big one last year in Australia. What I am contending is that animals are where they are in the world because of a bearded man in a boat. this is something that doesn't happen all the time.


You don't think the Bible have been evalutated, and considered on any number of grounds, including in the science community?

As for the flood myth - there are floods, and there is that Myth. Which is usually a global storm which consumed most of the world.  The survivors are the seeds for the present day. This specific story, some of which even include the use of a large boat can be found in South American, Africa and Asia. It is acknowledged as a myth. The re-telling of a myth is not the same as saying it is true.



'The re-telling of a myth is not the same as saying it is true.'
that's a really thoughtful point.

No. The Bible has been evaluated on many grounds in the scientific community. I don't dispute that. Currently science vs religion debates are at an all time high.

Again, with the flood myth, that's all well and good. I don't have an issue with the flood. A global flood may or may not have occurred. What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story. To quote Douglas Adams.

'Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?'



(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 55
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:38:19 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story.


Is that what the story of Noah's Ark does? I was under the impression he took them from Point A to Point B on a mountain top... then they all went their separate ways.

I don't think he dropped particular species off on particular continents.

Or did he?

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Englebertnightingale)
Post #: 56
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:42:28 PM   
shool


Posts: 10144
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story.


Is that what the story of Noah's Ark does? I was under the impression he took them from Point A to Point B on a mountain top... then they all went their separate ways.

I don't think he dropped particular species off on particular continents.

Or did he?


Not in my bible.

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
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"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 57
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:43:56 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story.


Is that what the story of Noah's Ark does? I was under the impression he took them from Point A to Point B on a mountain top... then they all went their separate ways.

I don't think he dropped particular species off on particular continents.

Or did he?


Not in my bible.


My bible says he stopped off for a McDonalds on the way home.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 58
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:46:04 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
And about the location of where the animals were dropped off - remember when this story was written. China hadn't really been encountered. No one knew the existance of America, or Down Under.

For them, repopulation of the world with animals from the boat wasn't a difficult concept - because their world was limited by the boundaries of their own experience and knowledge.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 1/12/2011 3:50:12 PM >


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 59
RE: Prince of Egypt... Touche! - 1/12/2011 3:48:16 PM   
shool


Posts: 10144
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story.


Is that what the story of Noah's Ark does? I was under the impression he took them from Point A to Point B on a mountain top... then they all went their separate ways.

I don't think he dropped particular species off on particular continents.

Or did he?


Not in my bible.


My bible says he stopped off for a McDonalds on the way home.




_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 60
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