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ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

You're getting livid with Arts students on an internet forum because we don't believe that a film made by a filmmaker with a proven track record in dealing with spirituality without condoning or promoting religion will make a film promoting religion.

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(I mean my god I found this interview with two seconds of fucking Googling)

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

I was a bit harsh on Jim. TV's not my strong suite. CBS is that the Christian Broadcasting Station

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ORIGINAL: Rinc
She's supposed to be 13! I'd want her to be very attractive though

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ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

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ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
Stop being mean to Deviation

No.

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I'm glad you said that - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907150931.htm

Science Daily hey. Looks like a pretty hodgepodge html site.

There are a lot of speculative noahs ark articles written in newspapers, and non reputable science journals often science journals written by Christians. The reason being, It sells. Christians are a huge target audience. Noah's ark is a Creationists wet dream.



Of course, that's not proof of an Ark... but maybe, just maybe... it's an analogy. Or a myth.

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

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I'm glad you said that - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907150931.htm

Science Daily hey. Looks like a pretty hodgepodge html site.

There are a lot of speculative noahs ark articles written in newspapers, and non reputable science journals often science journals written by Christians. The reason being, It sells. Christians are a huge target audience. Noah's ark is a Creationists wet dream.



Of course, that's not proof of an Ark... but maybe, just maybe... it's an analogy. Or a myth.

Hmm, not following your implied meaning here. 'Are you making fun of me Rizzo?'

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ORIGINAL: elab49

Science student by the way. Although, for my sins, I do now have a History degree too.

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Hang on, did you just say that Christians are a huge target audience for Scientific Journals?

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

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Hang on, did you just say that Christians are a huge target audience for Scientific Journals?

Yes I did. Here is a link that I do not endorse.

http://www.csmonitor.com/

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Excellent - you ignore those historians. It makes you so much more credible. In the meanwhile, why not try denying the holocaust or pretending that Hiroshima didn't happen or maybe, I know, forget that there was ever a ship called The Titanic. Or, better still and this is a groovy one, forget that the Hittites, Sumerians and Babylonians ever existed and helped to create the written word because you know, that's just history.

Again, just so as you know, those particular Roman records that you're so casually dismissed are a matter of historical fact and were part of the census and so are written as fact without any religious persuasion.

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

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Excellent - you ignore those historians. It makes you so much more credible. In the meanwhile, why not try denying the holocaust or pretending that Hiroshima didn't happen or maybe, I know, forget that there was ever a ship called The Titanic. Or, better still and this is a groovy one, forget that the Hittites, Sumerians and Babylonians ever existed and helped to create the written word because you know, that's just history.

Again, just so as you know, those particular Roman records that you're so casually dismissed are a matter of historical fact and were part of the census and so are written as fact without any religious persuasion.

Funkyrae I hope I didn't strike a nerve. I don't mean to antagonise. But there are some distinctions yet again to be made. If you were to do a census on the international historical community or the international scientific community and you were to ask questions about their deeply held personal beliefs and values, there would be diversity. I don't know this for fact. I write this with a degree of speculation. Please bear with me. I know at least two scientists. Both academics. One is Islamic one is Christian. If the bible makes scientific claims such as turning water to wine (chemistry) returning from the dead (biology) Noah's friggen ark (biological evolution and animal migration), then it should be held accountable for those claims. Yet it isn't. Noah's Ark is particularly important to me because I am passionate about animal welfare. That may seem trivial i.e how can a film about a boat that as pigeon brigade helpfully pointed out, little is known about it's concept or very nature, how can this film be harmful?

It is potentially harmful because, if it is the retelling of noah and the ark and the animals, albeit re-imagined artfully in Aronofsky's style,it is a failed opportunity to tell the true story of the beauty and natural wonder of life on this planet. Simply because it will likely include a human protagonist and if not a deity allusions to one (otherwise why bother with a biblical story?).

Now, somehow I find myself the underdog in this forum. My claims are bold but again the reason is I care that X amount of species become extinct everyday. Aronofsky's film may or may not allude to a deity or the bible but as an American production, can it really afford not to? No one would ever get a film funded in hollywood that could criticize Christianity.

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ORIGINAL: Funkyrae

Seriously, if you're only going to believe in recent historical events because there's still a living connection to them then you have major problems mate. You're banging on about creationism and assuming that this will be the intention of the film which has already been stated it won't, yet refusing point blank to see anything past your own, and people around you, timeline.

As for the Hittites, again, seriously?! A bronze age people in Anatolia that had a vast empire, spoke an Indo-European language, wrote in cuniform and written artefacts from that period have proven the migration of language including English.

And as for nobody getting a film funded that criticised Christianity - just off the top of my head here - Dogma?

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

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Excellent - you ignore those historians. It makes you so much more credible. In the meanwhile, why not try denying the holocaust or pretending that Hiroshima didn't happen or maybe, I know, forget that there was ever a ship called The Titanic. Or, better still and this is a groovy one, forget that the Hittites, Sumerians and Babylonians ever existed and helped to create the written word because you know, that's just history.

Again, just so as you know, those particular Roman records that you're so casually dismissed are a matter of historical fact and were part of the census and so are written as fact without any religious persuasion.

Funkyrae I hope I didn't strike a nerve. I don't mean to antagonise. But there are some distinctions yet again to be made. If you were to do a census on the international historical community or the international scientific community and you were to ask questions about their deeply held personal beliefs and values, there would be diversity. I don't know this for fact. I write this with a degree of speculation. Please bear with me. I know at least two scientists. Both academics. One is Islamic one is Christian. If the bible makes scientific claims such as turning water to wine (chemistry) returning from the dead (biology) Noah's friggen ark (biological evolution and animal migration), then it should be held accountable for those claims. Yet it isn't. Noah's Ark is particularly important to me because I am passionate about animal welfare. That may seem trivial i.e how can a film about a boat that as pigeon brigade helpfully pointed out, little is known about it's concept or very nature, how can this film be harmful?

It is potentially harmful because, if it is the retelling of noah and the ark and the animals, albeit re-imagined artfully in Aronofsky's style,it is a failed opportunity to tell the true story of the beauty and natural wonder of life on this planet. Simply because it will likely include a human protagonist and if not a deity allusions to one (otherwise why bother with a biblical story?).

Now, somehow I find myself the underdog in this forum. My claims are bold but again the reason is I care that X amount of species become extinct everyday. Aronofsky's film may or may not allude to a deity or the bible but as an American production, can it really afford not to? No one would ever get a film funded in hollywood that could criticize Christianity. I recognise that. I find it strange that seemingly no one else in this forum does. Just think for a moment all of those suspicious best picture wins for the film that wasn't so good but was less controversial than the really good one.

I'm a teacher in Japan. A lady in my community English class is 80 years old. She was around for Hiroshima which is two hours north. Trust me, I believe in recent historical events because we are still so connected to them. But when you go back further and you consult documentation that is often written from religious persuasions. You would be foolish to no reserve at least some skepticism. Now Titanic has an edge over Noah's Ark. They found it at the bottom of the sea. That's called evidence. The Hittites, you've lost me there? who the hell were they?

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Oh goody, a call-out. Haven't had one of those in a while. A couple of things.

A) This film hasn't even entered production yet. You're basing your assumptions of 'religious propaganda' based on the twin ideas that "people are stupid" and "Hollywood is a big cabal of Christian propagandists advancing a nefarious agenda". Given Aronofsky's history with filmmaking that, while making overtures towards specific religions, generally focuses on spirituality and its effects on people, and given the fact that this is a project he's building from the ground up, I'd be really damn surprised if this ended up being some kind of vehicle for Catholic propaganda or whatever simply because my assumptions are grounded in an assessment on the facts we have available. Your assumptions are basically Noah = propaganda and you're fitting everything else around it. Ultimately, it's far more likely Aronofsky will treat it as the parable it is rather than some kind of docudrama stating absolute fact.

B) Get off your high horse, "man of science". You're getting livid with Arts students on an internet forum because we don't believe that a film made by a filmmaker with a proven track record in dealing with spirituality without condoning or promoting religion will make a film promoting religion. You need some perspective bro.

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ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The Bible isn't a histroical document, but rather a document that informs us about history.

And the Flood myth appears in just about every religion - so either something did happen, or this is an example of the collective myth building at work. Certain ideas and images repeat themselves.

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

a document that informs us about history all the more reason to remain objective about it and to evaluate its messages and most certainly to challenge and question critically its scientific claims.

I don't dispute a flood. Floods happen all the time. There was a big one last year in Australia. What I am contending is that animals are where they are in the world because of a bearded man in a boat. this is something that doesn't happen all the time.

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ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

And the Flood myth appears in just about every religion - so either something did happen, or this is an example of the collective myth building at work. Certain ideas and images repeat themselves.

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ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale

a document that informs us about history all the more reason to remain objective about it and to evaluate its messages and most certainly to challenge and question critically its scientific claims.

I don't dispute a flood. Floods happen all the time. There was a big one last year in Australia. What I am contending is that animals are where they are in the world because of a bearded man in a boat. this is something that doesn't happen all the time.

You don't think the Bible have been evalutated, and considered on any number of grounds, including in the science community?

As for the flood myth - there are floods, and there is that Myth. Which is usually a global storm which consumed most of the world.  The survivors are the seeds for the present day. This specific story, some of which even include the use of a large boat can be found in South American, Africa and Asia. It is acknowledged as a myth. The re-telling of a myth is not the same as saying it is true.

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story.

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ORIGINAL: Timon

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story.

Is that what the story of Noah's Ark does? I was under the impression he took them from Point A to Point B on a mountain top... then they all went their separate ways.

I don't think he dropped particular species off on particular continents.

Or did he?

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ORIGINAL: shool

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ORIGINAL: Timon

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story.

Is that what the story of Noah's Ark does? I was under the impression he took them from Point A to Point B on a mountain top... then they all went their separate ways.

I don't think he dropped particular species off on particular continents.

Or did he?

Not in my bible.

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ORIGINAL: Spaldron

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ORIGINAL: shool

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ORIGINAL: Timon

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ORIGINAL: Englebertnightingale
What I am contending is the animal migration via Noah's Ark. I am contending the popularising of this myth because it steals the thunder of the beautiful and real story.

Is that what the story of Noah's Ark does? I was under the impression he took them from Point A to Point B on a mountain top... then they all went their separate ways.

I don't think he dropped particular species off on particular continents.

Or did he?

Not in my bible.

My bible says he stopped off for a McDonalds on the way home.