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Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys - Who In Turn Shou... - 4/11/2011 9:36:28 AM

Timon

Posts: 14551
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

Now I consider myself a pretty big film fan and when it come to certain franchises (James Bond, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings), I'm a full on fanboy, but if there's one thing that annoys me it is fans dictating to studios and film-makers. Especially when they think they know better than professional film makers.

Now yes, I am heavily invested in certain films and books and when it comes to adapting them, I want the job taken seriously and the best possible movie created, but when fanboys start actively campaigning for certain things to be included you can almost hear the studios panicking.

As a result, we have seen various franchises handicapped due to fanboy pressure where studios have made certain decisions to placate a vocal minority that know nothing about films.

Case in point.

Including Boba Fett in the Star Wars prequels and Venom in Spider-man 3.

The latter is a prime example. Raimi expressed no interest in the character but due to fanboy internet campaigns, Marvel essentially forced him into it. The result, one hell of a mess.

The best films have been where the film makers have honoured what has gone before it, but essentially done what they think is best.

Abram's Star Trek and Casino Royale for example.

As a Trek fan, I was skeptical about doing a prequel film, but it was the best possible thing for a franchise that was essentially on its knees. Abrams wasn't even a huge Trek fan and I think it needs that outside perspective to create the best possible film.

And what has happened when a franchises has been helmed by a fanboy instead of actual talent? You get the Alien Vs Predator films.

The whole fracas over the latest Bond film is a prime example. How many comments have been with people saying the title doesn't even sound like a proper Bond title? What would these people like? Something with 'Die' 'Gold' and a random adjective?

Just look at comment sections on Aintitcool, IMDB, Comingsoon and even Empire and despair.

As a movie fan, I personally believe that fanboys should be seen and not heard.

< Message edited by Timon -- 4/11/2011 1:25:59 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 1

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 9:46:47 AM

Deviation

Posts: 26923
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From: Enemies of Film HQ

BUT JAMES BOND ISN'T BLOND

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 9:47:02 AM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2976
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

As a result, we have seen various franchises handicapped due to fanboy pressure where studios have made certain decisions to placate a vocal minority that know nothing about films.

Case in point.

Including Boba Fett in the Star Wars prequels and Venom in Spider-man 3.

The latter is a prime example. Raimi expressed no interest in the character but due to fanboy internet campaigns, Marvel essentially forced him into it. The result, one hell of a mess.

I suppose if we'd known how much Raimi hated Venom, 'we' wouldn't have suggested it.

More seriously though, do these internet campaigns really make a difference? Because if they did, Raimi would have gotten fired from the first film - we all remember the fanboy outrage over Goblin's Power Rangers costume and organic web-shooters, I'm sure.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 9:49:24 AM

Timon

Posts: 14551
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

I think studios, more now than they did, take into account the fanboys mainly due to the internet, the popularity of sites such as Aintitcool and events like Comic-Con.

At the same time though, fanboys seem unable to grasp that film making is not a democracy - it is one person's vision and they should be allowed to focus on it without people going "make sure there's more action!"

< Message edited by Timon -- 4/11/2011 9:51:01 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 9:52:26 AM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2976
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

I agree with Comic-Con becoming a showcase for these kinds of films, but AICN is a shadow of its former self (does anyone here read it much anymore?) and certainly doesn't have the kind of power it had in the late 90s.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 10:23:43 AM

matty_b

Posts: 13129
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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

To this thread in general - good god, yes.

The chattering morons really need a big dose of STFU.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 10:40:15 AM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
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From: Chair

Remember the internet campaign to get Guillermo Del Toro to direct The Hobbit? Fair enough at the time Jackson said he wouldn't do it so we needed a decent replacement but look how it turned out. By all accounts his version would've potentially strayed very far from the cannon (like Thorin having antlers??!!!) And lets not forget (Hellboy II aside) he's never really made a truly great English language film. In a way I'm glad that MGM had all those financial issues forcing Del Toro out and Jackson back in.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 12:48:40 PM

ripperman

Posts: 136
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Remember the internet campaign to get Guillermo Del Toro to direct The Hobbit? Fair enough at the time Jackson said he wouldn't do it so we needed a decent replacement but look how it turned out. By all accounts his version would've potentially strayed very far from the cannon (like Thorin having antlers??!!!) And lets not forget (Hellboy II aside) he's never really made a truly great English language film. In a way I'm glad that MGM had all those financial issues forcing Del Toro out and Jackson back in.

I totally agree, I was never really happy with Del Toro taking up the mantle for the hobbit. Eventhough I respect him as a director I didn�t think he was right for it. However, and in reference to the op�s point I would never have kicked up a big fuss on the internet or otherwise if he remained on directing duties. Let them do their job and then analyse or critique it afterwards is my general rule.

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Post #: 8

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 1:18:52 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18934
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

The Hobbit is a very different book to LOTR, and Del Toro had stated that while yes, he would being some of his own designs into it, the overall world would fit in with the universe established in LOTR. I think a lot of his work is still being applied.

The most annoying example of fanboy interference was of course Terminator Salvation. Here is the article that kicked it off

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/36947

So on the one hand Moriarty is moaning about how Hollywood is making constant sequels and reboots, and on the other hand saying how much he hates an ending which is brave, different and would get people excited about the series. Typical fanboy nonsense. Killing John Conner, and having a Terminator take his place is just the sort of move which I would get behind. We are on the fourth movie. These are usually the make or break movies of long standing franchises. It needed to do something new.

A subsequent movie could have dealt with what it means to be a leader, how does Conner learn to be Conner (his mother left tapes so he has that), and would make things messy again.

But oh no. The fanboys couldn't have risks be taken with their franchises, no matter that they moan that everything is the same. So of course once the internet caught onto to what was going to happen, the producers got scared and went for the safest possible ending. The result - a movie which has potential, but feels empty. And you can see the seeds of the larger story still in there, including the idea that the machines are working with humans (a brief clip of human shadows watching over mankind being herded into the city is still in the film).

I am still pissed off at how that film got ruined. And then the fanboys go after McG for it, without looking at their own childish reaction to an interesting twist on the story.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 1:25:08 PM

Timon

Posts: 14551
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

A subsequent movie could have dealt with what it means to be a leader, how does Conner learn to be Conner (his mother left tapes so he has that), and would make things messy again.

You mean how Marcus becomes Connor right?

I completely agree. Future films could have dealt with the premise that Connor is more a figurehead than a leader. An idea that humanity can unite behind. We never saw anything in Salvation that makes us think he's a great military leader, but the IDEA of Connor is much stronger.

It would have been a fascinating premise, considering I never wanted Connor front and centre anyway.

_____________________________

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Twitter: @timonsingh

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Post #: 10

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 1:33:30 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18934
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

quote:

A subsequent movie could have dealt with what it means to be a leader, how does Conner learn to be Conner (his mother left tapes so he has that), and would make things messy again.

You mean how Marcus becomes Connor right?

I completely agree. Future films could have dealt with the premise that Connor is more a figurehead than a leader. An idea that humanity can unite behind. We never saw anything in Salvation that makes us think he's a great military leader, but the IDEA of Connor is much stronger.

It would have been a fascinating premise, considering I never wanted Connor front and centre anyway.

Yeah, Marcus, as Conner.

And that is the thing - the JC of the future is this idea, a symbol. And Bale would have been playing both the real and robot Conner anyway, but at least the role would have something to it beyond man who saves the world, saves the world.

They blew the chance to do something interesting because fanboys are stupid.

A more recent case in point - the Planet of the Apes movie. How many fanboys before the film came out were saying that it would be rubbish, and that "how can a few hundred apes take over the world". Of course the film explains all this, but they were up in arms about something which they hadn't even seen.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys - Who In Turn ... - 4/11/2011 1:35:38 PM

Buddy Ackerman

Posts: 210
Joined: 2/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Case in point.

Including Boba Fett in the Star Wars prequels

I can only defend The Phantom Menace up to a point but the reason it will always be my favourite film of the Star Wars prequels is because it at least feels like it was exactly what Lucas wanted to do. For better or worse, we were watching his vision. All the fanboy nods, winks and characters in the next two chapters feel forced, like Lucas is making concessions for the fans who felt disappointed with Menace. As such, despite having some of the series' biggest thrills and for lessening Jar Jar, they always feel like hollow films with elements slotted in by committee.

In short, I agree.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys - Who In Turn ... - 4/11/2011 1:43:03 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buddy Ackerman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Case in point.

Including Boba Fett in the Star Wars prequels

I can only defend The Phantom Menace up to a point but the reason it will always be my favourite film of the Star Wars prequels is because it at least feels like it was exactly what Lucas wanted to do. For better or worse, we were watching his vision. All the fanboy nods, winks and characters in the�next two chapters feel forced, like Lucas is making concessions for the fans who felt disappointed with Menace. As such, despite having some of the series' biggest thrills and for lessening Jar Jar, they always feel like hollow films with elements slotted in by committee.

In short, I agree.

On the flipside of that maybe he should've paid attention when it came to the changes he made to the OT.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 1:44:57 PM

Timon

Posts: 14551
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

quote:

A subsequent movie could have dealt with what it means to be a leader, how does Conner learn to be Conner (his mother left tapes so he has that), and would make things messy again.

You mean how Marcus becomes Connor right?

I completely agree. Future films could have dealt with the premise that Connor is more a figurehead than a leader. An idea that humanity can unite behind. We never saw anything in Salvation that makes us think he's a great military leader, but the IDEA of Connor is much stronger.

It would have been a fascinating premise, considering I never wanted Connor front and centre anyway.

Yeah, Marcus, as Conner.

And that is the thing - the JC of the future is this idea, a symbol. And Bale would have been playing both the real and robot Conner anyway, but at least the role would have something to it beyond man who saves the world, saves the world.

They blew the chance to do something interesting because fanboys are stupid.

A more recent case in point - the Planet of the Apes movie. How many fanboys before the film came out were saying that it would be rubbish, and that "how can a few hundred apes take over the world". Of course the film explains all this, but they were up in arms about something which they hadn't even seen.

Let us not forget the "It's not a Terminator film without Arnie!" brigade which led to this unnecessary scene.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 14

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 1:49:35 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18934
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

I'm pretty sure the Arnie thing was going to be in there anyways. Wasn't needed, I agree.

I am not saying Terminator Salvation would have been a better movie if they kept the ending, but it would have been a more interesting film, and one we would likely still be debating. It is actully pretty well directed, and has some good action scenes. McG hardly screwed the pooch in that sense. It is just the film lost all the juice that made its creation worthwhile.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 1:50:26 PM

jcthefirst

Posts: 4113
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor

I still quite like Terminator Salvation, but as you say RGirv, the whole film is a set up for something that doesn't happen. Some of the dialogue is so on the nose that it's incredibly jarring when the Marcus-as-John thing doesn't happen.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 1:53:24 PM

sharkboy

Posts: 6052
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast

Personally, I was saddened by del Toro's departure from The Hobbit. He's already shown that he has a great eye for the fantastic and is, I think, one of the more imaginative directors working in this genre. But I would not have wished on him the fanboy wrath he could have experienced for directing the movie, especially since he was likely to face it from 2 different groups, the Ringers and the fans of the book. Just remember the fuss that was kicked up about Tom Bombadil ferchrissake!

Fanboys, and more to the point, the oxygen that the studios allow them, are a blight on modern moviemaking IMO - did it really matter that much that Kingpin or Heimdal were black? Or that Brandon Routh's costume used just the wrong colour of red? After all, what caused the relative box office failure of Watchmen - the deviation from the comic book ending that annoyed the fanboys, or the rigid adherence to the comic's visuals that seemed to turn off the average moviegoer?

Most ironic to me is the wailing from this group for studios that dare to suggest a slightly different origin story for their heroes or deviate slightly from their costume designs, then the same group runs out and buys every retconned storyline the comics throw at them.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys - Who In Turn ... - 4/11/2011 2:31:31 PM

Gimli The Dwarf

Posts: 73572
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From: Central Park Zoo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Now I consider myself a pretty big film fan and when it come to certain franchises (James Bond, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings), I'm a full on fanboy, but if there's one thing that annoys me it is fans dictating to studios and film-makers. Especially when they think they know better than professional film makers.

I don't think I knew this. Makes me happy

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 2:34:35 PM

The Mighty

Posts: 1743
Joined: 30/9/2005

I completely agree. I hate when fanboys think they dictate what happens in a film. The T4 original ending sounds interesting, but was instead taken out and replaced with nothing. Another example involving McG was when the American remake of Spaced was announced. Despite having not aired a single second of footage, fanboys were outraged. I'm sure the negative fan reaction was partly responsible for FOX not picking up the show.

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Post #: 19

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 2:45:45 PM

Timon

Posts: 14551
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

OMG?! HEATH LEDGER IS THE JOKER?! IT'LL BE BROKEBACK BATMAN! Click HERE for the original hysteria.

< Message edited by Timon -- 4/11/2011 2:48:06 PM >

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

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Post #: 20

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 2:47:41 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18934
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From: Punishment Park

Alexis Denisof - lol

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 2:49:34 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18934
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

Remember that Lachy Hulme bloke the batfans were wetting themselves over? Whatever happened to him?

edited to add -

That thread is hilarious - but it must be said, credit where credit is due, a few folks saw the potential.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 4/11/2011 2:59:04 PM >

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 3:10:54 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Remember that Lachy Hulme bloke the batfans were wetting themselves over? Whatever happened to him?

edited to add -

That thread is hilarious - but it must be said, credit where credit is due, a few folks saw the potential.

That Jack of Blades guy was/is a massive knobend. I'm only on page 3 and his trolling nearly surpasses vad3r. And he came across as quite a homophobe.

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And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 23

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 3:12:36 PM

superdan

Posts: 7327
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That thread is classic.

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Post #: 24

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 3:13:46 PM

matty_b

Posts: 13129
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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

Was this thread on Empire? Am I being thick and missed a link?

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 3:18:41 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18934
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

Also all the fanboys saying with full confidence that Casino Royale would flop and Craig would be the worst Bond ever, and they should make a movie with gadgets and quips...like Die Another Day.

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RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 3:47:59 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

Jeez there's some stuff on that thread that would get anyone banned if it was written today. Empire was way more hardcore back then.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 27

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 3:50:54 PM

jcthefirst

Posts: 4113
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Alexis Denisof - lol

Can't believe someone thought him as a serious choice.Except maybe vad3r.

I mean, I like Angel and all, but seriously...?

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Post #: 28

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 4:00:23 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to jcthefirst)

Post #: 29

RE: Studios Should Not Listen To Fanboys. Who In Turn S... - 4/11/2011 4:03:19 PM

jcthefirst

Posts: 4113
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor

Leaning to the right a bit there.

Or possibly squashed to the right.

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Post #: 30