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RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 11:31:12 AM

Chief

Posts: 7012
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The Kingdom, Scotland

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

The attack ended when the teenager's horrified mother pulled Bradford off

It'd certainly calm me down.

Anyway, I agree with James. Not because of any moral bullshit but because having to listen to kids on Xbox Live is nippy as fuck.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)

Post #: 61

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 1:11:09 PM

clownfoot

Posts: 7738
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief
Anyway, I agree with James. Not because of any moral bullshit but because having to listen to kids on Xbox Live is nippy as fuck.

This is why PS3 rules...

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Post #: 62

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 1:42:10 PM

rawlinson

Posts: 40194
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

Intelligent and reasonable. Coming from someone calling me a c***?

Actually I didn't.

Well you did call him an idiot simply because he made a fairly civil comment that you just happened to take incredibly personally. While you may not agree with it (hell I certainly don't), his opinion in this case is fairly reasonable and it only reflects badly on you if you attack his views as "cuntish" and him as an "idiot". Basically, your outburst was uncalled for - James isn't trolling or offending everyone with backward opinions (because, believe it or not, a kid's susceptibility to influence from outside media is not a crazy idea), he's merely imparting a harmless opinion that you took too personally. There was no justification for rolling out the swear words and there was no justification for the personal attacks.

Wasn't Spaldron's anger more to do with James saying his parents were irresponsible?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Were my parents irresponsible to let me watch Robocop at the age of 10, knowing that by not doing so would deny me experiencing one of the films of the 80's at the time and being slagged off in school (because all the cool kids had seen it by that point)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

Considering the amount of violence in that film. Yup.

I saw it when I was 10 as well, but without my parents knowledge.

Spaldron's reaction was over the top, but surely a more reasonable response to the original question would have been for James to not outright say his parents were irresponsible?

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Post #: 63

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 2:04:40 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Were my parents irresponsible to let me watch Robocop at the age of 10, knowing that by not doing so would deny me experiencing one of the films of the 80's at the time and being slagged off in school (because all the cool kids had seen it by that point)?

Considering the amount of violence in that film. Yup.

I saw it when I was 10 as well, but without my parents knowledge.

Spaldron's reaction was over the top, but surely a more reasonable response to the original question would have been for James to not outright say his parents were irresponsible?

I should point out my original question was done half jokingly, particularly the bit about all the cool kids seeing it first. Didn't deserve the "you're parents are irresponsible" crap, considering the amount of parents out there who let their 10 years olds watch porn and play 18 rated games without the parental lock.

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Post #: 64

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 2:36:07 PM

Pigeon Army

Posts: 14611
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From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.

He also acknowledged that, if Spaldron's wanted to call his parents "careless" because James watched Robocop at that age without their knowledge, he was within his full right to do so. I may be wrong about him going personal, but this isn't "fuck your parents", this is "I have a worldview and applied consistently this is an inevitable outcome" - at the very least, it didn't warrant the attack posted and it just made Spaldron look bad by posting it. Just moderate your language next time, Spaldron.

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Post #: 65

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 2:37:25 PM

gazpop

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Post #: 66

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 2:48:57 PM

rawlinson

Posts: 40194
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

He also acknowledged that, if Spaldron's wanted to call his parents "careless" because James watched Robocop at that age without their knowledge, he was within his full right to do so. I may be wrong about him going personal, but this isn't "fuck your parents", this is "I have a worldview and applied consistently this is an inevitable outcome" - at the very least, it didn't warrant the attack posted and it just made Spaldron look bad by posting it. Just moderate your language next time, Spaldron.

I'm just saying that Spaldron's reaction wasn't completely unprovoked and when I first read James saying that he did think Spaldron's parents were irresponsible it did seem inappropriate coming from a mod. It's one thing to say he doesn't think parents should allow their children to see age-restricted material, it's another to say another forum members parents were irresponsible to allow it. Although I should also say I don't think it was James' intention to provoke, like you say, it was offering a consistent worldview.

But for the wider irresponsible thing, I've known plenty of parents who've allowed their kids to watch 18 rated films, but they insist they watch them together. That way if the kid is bothered by anything in the film they've seen it in an environment where they can talk about it afterwards. To me that seems more responsible than a kid being told they can't see a certain film which will then obviously lead to them watching it on their own. I also think that when people get older they tend to forget what they were like as kids. How many people here didn't watch 18 rated material when they were underage and how many of us have been negatively affected by it? Kids are tougher than people often give them credit for. And anyway, if slasher films have taught me anything it's that overly controlling parents turn their children into serial killers.

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Post #: 67

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 2:49:38 PM

superdan

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Joined: 31/7/2008

I'm not sure I understand what's going on in this thread. Are people saying it's fine for kids to play and watch 18-rated material?

(in reply to gazpop)

Post #: 68

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 2:52:47 PM

rawlinson

Posts: 40194
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

Didn't you when you were under 18?

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Post #: 69

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 2:58:20 PM

Harry Tuttle

Posts: 7516
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

I remember my dad used to wake me up during the night without my mum's knowledge to watch stuff like Robocop, Terminator, The Untouchables, Bloodsport, Kickboxer etc when they were first released on video.

My dad was/is a stupid cu*t though so I dunno what point I'm trying to make.

Err, as you were

.

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Post #: 70

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:02:24 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14570
Joined: 30/9/2005

This reminds me of the time I worked in a video shop. A family with two young girls wanted to rent a horror film for a sleepover. The girls (about 12) wanted to rent out Last House on the Left (the original, it was just released on dvd at the time) and the parents were going to let them......

I had to intervene. They were cool about it once I mentioned the film involved the r-word. I agree with James to an extent, there are some things young kids just should not watch.

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Shifty said it best

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Post #: 71

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:03:19 PM

superdan

Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Didn't you when you were under 18?

I did, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated as a big deal or laughed off as unimportant. When I was 8 my dad and I sat and watched Aliens, and I felt physically sick afterwards (it was Bishop getting torn in half that finally did me in) and had nightmares for days. Was that irresponsible parenting? Fuck yeah. I'd never dream of sitting and watching a film like that with an 8 year old (or Robocop, Cohen and Tate or any other number of unsuitable films that I watched). And let's not pretend that films or games can't influence kids (or adults for that matter).

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Post #: 72

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:04:58 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3574
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

I'm not sure I understand what's going on in this thread. Are people saying it's fine for kids to play and watch 18-rated material?

Perhaps not so much that it's fine, more that it's not really such a huge problem if it happens because many of us watched 18 rated videos when we were younger, with or without our parents' consent, and as far as we know it hasn't had a detrimental effect on us. But who knows...maybe video games is a different kettle of fish, in terms of the interaction and how much more realistic they are now than when we were kids. I grew up with a Commodore 64 and I think the most violent thing I ever played was Renegade. Compared to stuff today it's ever so tame.

Perhaps it's not so much the violent content that's the issue here. Perhaps the real concern lies with the level of addiction that can be reached in some gamers, as well as the anti-social aspects of the online play. I mean, going by the story it's not just kids who can take it too far.

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Post #: 73

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:11:34 PM

superdan

Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown
But who knows...maybe video games is a different kettle of fish, in terms of the interaction and how much more realistic they are now than when we were kids. I grew up with a Commodore 64 and I think the most violent thing I ever played was Renegade. Compared to stuff today it's ever so tame.

That's a fair point, though cutting someone's head of in Barbarian was pretty violent

But there's no doubt the ultra-violence in some games today leaves early gaming in the dust.

This is all a side issue of course, since as someone else pointed out it was the adult who blew a fuse and went mental.

(in reply to DancingClown)

Post #: 74

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:13:43 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

I'm not sure I understand what's going on in this thread. Are people saying it's fine for kids to play and watch 18-rated material?

Perhaps not so much that it's fine, more that it's not really such a huge problem if it happens because many of us watched 18 rated videos when we were younger, with or without our parents' consent, and as far as we know it hasn't had a detrimental effect on us. But who knows...maybe video games is a different kettle of fish, in terms of the interaction and how much more realistic they are now than when we were kids. I grew up with a Commodore 64 and I think the most violent thing I ever played was Renegade. Compared to stuff today it's ever so tame.

Perhaps it's not so much the violent content that's the issue here. Perhaps the real concern lies with the level of addiction that can be reached in some gamers, as well as the anti-social aspects of the online play. I mean, going by the story it's not just kids who can take it too far.

By their interactive nature games do get you more emotionally involved and (occasionally) worked up. However I can't think of any instances where a game has caused a perfectly rational person to go out and commit a crime. The people who do so are generally unhinged to begin with. Remember the fuss over A Clockwork Orange/Natural Born Killers or the Tipper Gore campaign against Rap music etc? Would you say that movies of music cause people to go out and kill? Of course not, that's silly and games don't either.

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Post #: 75

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:14:32 PM

rawlinson

Posts: 40194
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From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

Personally I don't believe films can influence people. I think it's an easy out " This person went insane and killed people, must be because of this video game/film/song." It's never that simple. I don't believe someone is going to kill or rape or anything else simply because they saw it in a film, it's something that's in them in the first place.

But would you say that because you felt it was inappropriate for you that it automatically means it's inappropriate for everyone? Because that's where the line comes, I think. One is personal choice, the other is attempting to make the choice for others. You saw violent films as a kid and were negatively affected, I saw them and wasn't. Neither one of us have grown up into murderers. Surely it's down to the kid and what the parents think they can handle? I still think that it's better if a kid is seeing these things with an adult who can comfort them when they get upset rather than watching it on their own for the first time.

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Post #: 76

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:20:45 PM

matty_b

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Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

Not at all 18 certificates are the same, though. It's simply a catch-all term for a wide range of potentially troublesome issues and it's thus down to the parents/adults to decide what's repsonsible for their kids to watch.

For instance, when I was young my parents were fine to let me watch the likes of Alien or The Thing, because they knew I could recognise the fantastical element of them. However, they - quite sensibly in my opinion - wouldn't let me watch Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer because there's no element in there that an immature child could discern as being "not real". That would have probably scarred me. The scariest thing I have ever seen was when I was 11 and I watched Ghostwatch at Halloween.

It's crap, but the "realism" of it was terrifying.

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Post #: 77

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:23:34 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

Not at all 18 certificates are the same, though. It's simply a catch-all term for a wide range of potentially troublesome issues and it's thus down to the parents/adults to decide what's repsonsible for their kids to watch.

For instance, when I was young my parents were fine to let me watch the likes of Alien or The Thing, because they knew I could recognise the fantastical element of them. However, they - quite sensibly in my opinion - wouldn't let me watch Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer because there's no element in there that an immature child could discern as being "not real". That would have probably scarred me. The scariest thing I have ever seen was when I was 11 and I watched Ghostwatch at Halloween.

It's crap, but the "realism" of it was terrifying.

Ghostwatch is epic!!!

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Post #: 78

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:24:32 PM

rawlinson

Posts: 40194
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

Ghostwatch isn't crap you gumdropping gumdrop.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree.

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ORIGINAL: matty_b

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Post #: 79

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:25:47 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3574
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

I'm not sure I understand what's going on in this thread. Are people saying it's fine for kids to play and watch 18-rated material?

Perhaps not so much that it's fine, more that it's not really such a huge problem if it happens because many of us watched 18 rated videos when we were younger, with or without our parents' consent, and as far as we know it hasn't had a detrimental effect on us. But who knows...maybe video games is a different kettle of fish, in terms of the interaction and how much more realistic they are now than when we were kids. I grew up with a Commodore 64 and I think the most violent thing I ever played was Renegade. Compared to stuff today it's ever so tame.

Perhaps it's not so much the violent content that's the issue here. Perhaps the real concern lies with the level of addiction that can be reached in some gamers, as well as the anti-social aspects of the online play. I mean, going by the story it's not just kids who can take it too far.

By their interactive nature games do get you more emotionally involved and (occasionally) worked up. However I can't think of any instances where a game has caused a perfectly rational person to go out and commit a crime. The people who do so are generally unhinged to begin with. Remember the fuss over A Clockwork Orange/Natural Born Killers or the Tipper Gore campaign against Rap music etc? Would you say that movies of music cause people to go out and kill? Of course not, that's silly and games don't either.

Well, maybe not make them homicidal, I'm talking about general attitudes in terms of beligerance, intolerance and lack of empathy, that sort of thing. And addiction can be self-destructive, that's the thrust of my point. But of course that can apply to so many things these days. Perhaps parents should just be more pro-active in regulating how much their kids play, not forbid them from playing at all, for that would be counter-productive.

Just throwing it out there.

< Message edited by DancingClown -- 3/10/2011 3:28:12 PM >

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Post #: 80

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:29:35 PM

superdan

Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Personally I don't believe films can influence people. I think it's an easy out " This person went insane and killed people, must be because of this video game/film/song." It's never that simple. I don't believe someone is going to kill or rape or anything else simply because they saw it in a film, it's something that's in them in the first place.

I wasn't specifically referring to the extremes, simply that I think the observable evidence that films influence behaviour is much more commonplace than people admit. To give a couple of (anectodal) examples; when I watched the first two Fast & Furious films in the cinema, the number of people who wheelspun and sped their way out of the car park afterwards (perhaps thinking that their Nissan Micra's had transformed into 10 second cars) would have been hilarious if it wasn't so worrying. When I saw The Phantom Menace, afterwards a bunch of fanboys leapt to the front of the auditorium and started wailing on each other with their toy lightsabres. Film makes people do shit, even if it isn't to the extreme of copying murders or whatever.

quote:

But would you say that because you felt it was inappropriate for you that it automatically means it's inappropriate for everyone? Because that's where the line comes, I think. One is personal choice, the other is attempting to make the choice for others. You saw violent films as a kid and were negatively affected, I saw them and wasn't. Neither one of us have grown up into murderers. Surely it's down to the kid and what the parents think they can handle? I still think that it's better if a kid is seeing these things with an adult who can comfort them when they get upset rather than watching it on their own for the first time.

There's truth to that but it isn't that straightforward, there are legalities that your position renders pointless. If someone knowingly admits an underage person to an 18 film in the cinema, or sells or rents them a film in a shop, or sells them a beer, they will most likely (if caught) be fined, fired and the establishment can be shut down, and yet a parent can show their kid anything they want purely because it's their kid? There's no way of really knowing how a child will react to anything until after then event, by which time it's too late of course.

I'm not saying parent who let their kids watch stuff that is rated unsuitable should be thrown in jail or anything, I'm just saying that I think it's a bigger deal than most people seem to.

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Post #: 81

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:31:58 PM

matty_b

Posts: 12879
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Ghostwatch isn't crap you gumdropping gumdrop.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree.

Well, OK, some of it is still very, very effective. The ghost against the curtains - AND THEN IT'S GONE. Brr...

But most of it is quite shit.

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Post #: 82

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:35:19 PM

superdan

Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008

Ghostwatch was bloody terrifying. My sister had a full-blown panic attack

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Post #: 83

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:48:27 PM

matty_b

Posts: 12879
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

I used to teach media and show it to my students as an example of early cross-genres. They all laughed at it.

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Post #: 84

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:49:55 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6220
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From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Ghostwatch isn't crap you gumdropping gumdrop.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree.

Well, OK, some of it is still very, very effective. The ghost against the curtains - AND THEN IT'S GONE. Brr...

But most of it is quite shit.

Any show that has Sarah Greene getting sucked into the spirit world is OK by me.

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Post #: 85

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:54:21 PM

superdan

Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008

There's an urban myth in Hull involving Sarah Greene, a Student Union pool table and the Hull University rugby team. I'm sure there's no truth to it though.

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Post #: 86

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:55:03 PM

rawlinson

Posts: 40194
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

Then your students were arseholes.

quote:

There's truth to that but it isn't that straightforward, there are legalities that your position renders pointless. If someone knowingly admits an underage person to an 18 film in the cinema, or sells or rents them a film in a shop, or sells them a beer, they will most likely (if caught) be fined, fired and the establishment can be shut down, and yet a parent can show their kid anything they want purely because it's their kid? There's no way of really knowing how a child will react to anything until after then event, by which time it's too late of course.

The law is about distribution though. It's illegal to sell something age restricted to someone under that age, it's not illegal for them to watch it. It's all about parental judgement I think. And there's still limits, a parent wouldn't be legally allowed to show their children porn films, for example. But I think if a parent decides to show their kid Robocop or The Thing they're generally doing it having already thought through if their child is mature enough to deal with it. I don't think a kid should be shown Aliens though, not because it would upset them, just because it's sooooooooooooooo bad.

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ORIGINAL: matty_b

I would plough my way through MonsterCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

I desire MonsterCat to go down on me.

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Post #: 87

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 3:55:47 PM

rawlinson

Posts: 40194
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

There's an urban myth in Hull involving Sarah Greene, a Student Union pool table and the Hull University rugby team. I'm sure there's no truth to it though.

I've heard that as well!

But you've left out part of the story as I heard it.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

I would plough my way through MonsterCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

I desire MonsterCat to go down on me.

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Post #: 88

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 4:01:55 PM

superdan

Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson
The law is about distribution though. It's illegal to sell something age restricted to someone under that age, it's not illegal for them to watch it.

Fair point, though it'd be interesting to see how many people like to get their kids pissed

(in reply to rawlinson)

Post #: 89

RE: Grown Man Attacks Kid Over Call of Duty - 3/10/2011 4:07:38 PM

matty_b

Posts: 12879
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Ghostwatch isn't crap you gumdropping gumdrop.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree.

Well, OK, some of it is still very, very effective. The ghost against the curtains - AND THEN IT'S GONE. Brr...

But most of it is quite shit.

Any show that has Sarah Greene getting sucked into the spirit world is OK by me.

quote:

There's an urban myth in Hull involving Sarah Greene, a Student Union pool table and the Hull University rugby team. I'm sure there's no truth to it though.