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BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 1:15:08 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
It took four(ok,ok FIVE if you count the Adam West version!) big screen adaptations of Batman before the caped crusader finally got the definitive big screen treatment in Christopher Nolans Batman Begins in 2005.Whereas previous adaptions of the character were camp,were more toy adverts than an actual film,and an excuse for overpaid megastars to get most of the screentime as one of Batmans villains,Begins was the first time that the character was taken seriously as a definitive origin story that actually showed viewers how Bruce Wayne became Batman.Director Christopher Nolan and screenwriter David Goyer cannot get enough credit for at long last being the filmakers to take the character seriously.The film is grounded in a gritty reality that even appealed to moviegoers who usually didnt like ''superhero'' flicks.



Christian Bale was born to play Bruce Wayne/Batman.Tall,tough,and great at playing the three roles that are actually required of the character,Bruce Wayne the tortured soul,Bruce Wayne the billionaire playboy,and Batman the dark knight.Some have commented on the gruff voice that Bale uses when playing Batman but i think its great.Its all part of the persona that Wayne uses when he is in his Batman persona and since he is the most famous person in Gotham,it is used as a disguise.Much better than the ridiculously miscast Michael Keaton(who was far too short and weak looking),ValKilmer,and George Clooney(who actually could have made a decent job of the role had he not been in such a terrible film as Batman and Robin!).Bale was supported by a great cast including Morgan Freeman,Michael Caine,Gary Oldman,Rutguer Hauer,the underated Katie Holmes,and of course,Liam neeson.I remember coming out of the cinema in 2005 delighted that i had finally seen a REAL Batman movie.Not a toy advert which the other films were.This is,along with 1978's Superman:The Movie,the best origin story that a comic book character could have.



THE DARK KNIGHT which followed three years later in 2008,is one of those rare sequels,that matches and even surpasses the previous film.Heath Ledger was a controversial choice at the time to play Batmans ultimate nemesis,The Joker(i should know,i had my doubts myself),but Ledger gave a truly great performance.Scary,funny,and devious,it was a peformance that far surpassed Jack Nicholsons fun(but ultimately camp) performance in the 1989 film.Rather than being a story about one man,like the previous film,The Dark Knight is more of a crime epic about an entire city.Nolan has said that he was inspired by the Michael Mann film Heat and it shows as The Dark Knight is more of an epic crime saga than a ''superhero pic''.The film lives up to its name as it is unrelentingly bleak,very violent in places,and extremley tense.The film is not so bleak where it is not ridiculously entertaining in many areas however.Like the previous film,it is action packed(the armoured truck chase being a particular stand out).





With these two films,Christopher Nolan has done what seemed impossible,make a truly great screen adapation of one of the greatest comic book characters ever,and create what is on its way to becoming possibly the greatest movie trilogy ever.We will have to wait until THE DARK KNIGHT RISES in 2012,to see if Nolan manages to beat the curse of the the third act in a superhero trilogy being the weakest.Im confident that he,along with his great cast and crew,will do just that and give us a conclusion that we,the fans will be proud of.

Until then,share the love for two of the greatest films ever!




_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.
Post #: 1
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 1:22:52 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4425
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
Love them both. And as much as I also love the two Burton movies, these are the definitive Bats.

But this thread not end well.

_____________________________

@Jonny_C85

My Movie Blog | My Other Various Rantings Blog

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 2
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 1:44:30 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005
Couldn't agree more Silas. Two of the best comic book movies ever made and I'm praying that part three cements it's place as the best trilogy going.

There's a shot from Batman Begins where he's standing on the side of a building overlooking Gotham. This one frame captured more of the character that pretty much any film before it. Epic, heroic and downright awesome.



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Post #: 3
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 1:57:17 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Love them both, but Begins drops the ball in the third act in terms of the themeatic arc of Bats and the whole "not killing anyone". 

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 4
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 1:59:43 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Love them both, but Begins drops the ball in the third act in terms of the themeatic arc of Bats and the whole "not killing anyone". 


He doesn't kill him. He just chooses not to save him.

But yes, that is playing fast and loose with your principles.

< Message edited by Timon -- 5/8/2011 2:00:18 PM >


_____________________________

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Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 5
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 2:05:34 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Love them both, but Begins drops the ball in the third act in terms of the themeatic arc of Bats and the whole "not killing anyone". 


He doesn't kill him. He just chooses not to save him.

But yes, that is playing fast and loose with your principles.


That's pretty much the only negative in either film in my opinion and it's a pretty big one. But then maybe Ra's is immortal...

_____________________________

Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 6
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 2:15:15 PM   
BatFan


Posts: 2124
Joined: 27/7/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcthefirst

Love them both. And as much as I also love the two Burton movies, these are the definitive Bats.

But this thread not end well.


Why do you say that?

_____________________________

"You are in hell, little man! And I am the devil!"
"You're not the devil. You're practice"

(in reply to jcthefirst)
Post #: 7
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 2:21:17 PM   
Drew_231

 

Posts: 882
Joined: 7/5/2008
The Dark Knight sits alongside Jurassic Park as my greatest film going experiance
I think the key is that I went it knowing next to nothing (only ever saw one trailer and avoided every article on it)

Trying my best to do the same for the new one, but its so disheartning when things like all those stills leak and give away huge plot points (havnt looked but every where you look on the internet has people talking about them). Also that sense of anticipation is dampened when it seems like everyone knows whats going to happen

On a side note, I never really had a problem with Bales 'Bat voice', and it does make sense within the context of the film. Although her does veer into self parody every now and then ('this city just showed you..').
'Then your gonna  love me' is ace though

(in reply to Rob)
Post #: 8
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 2:53:24 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
Epic cinema from both films on a scale that credit must go to Nolan and his team. Nolan saw what could be done and had the vision to place that on a screen.
 
Begins brought us a template that simply blew everyone away that summer, it just arrived and my experience of seeing it is my finest cinematic experience beacuse for the first time we saw a character many of us had invested years of love into presented correctly, effectively and with knowledge and passion.
 
I sat in tears at the end because here was a film I'd spent my life wanting and waitng to see.
 
The end dialogue between Gordon and Batman defines their relationship and Batman's with the city of Gotham.
 
I never said thank you
 
And you'll never have too *head turn and drop*
 
Perefection.
 
TDK equally gave us the Joker, not what we expected but a representation that harks back so well to Kane and Finger's concept. Heath's performance a measure of the man's ability.
 
In turn, Bale 'gets' the multi-faceted Wayne like no other actor before him, Wayne is the mask.
 
A crime drama with a heart and delivered with an elegance few can match.
 
The interrgoration scene alone is enough to warrent classic status, two men locked in their own battle for eternity.
 
TDKR will complete the finest trilogy in cinematic history IMO.
 
Both films simply beautiful.
 
 

(in reply to Drew_231)
Post #: 9
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 2:58:13 PM   
shool


Posts: 10118
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

I sat in tears at the end because here was a film I'd spent my life wanting and waitng to see. 
 



I love them, but I think my reaction was somewhat less than this.

Man up. Batman would be ashamed of you.  

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

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(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 10
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:04:29 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

I sat in tears at the end because here was a film I'd spent my life wanting and waitng to see. 
 



I love them, but I think my reaction was somewhat less than this.

Man up. Batman would be ashamed of you.  


It's just the delivery and emotional 'bang' of seeing someone 'get' what you always got.

Plus I'm an emotional chap, sorry Shool

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 11
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:15:14 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3217
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester
Shool's just dead inside, Jim. Not that I cry at films, personally.

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Post #: 12
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:18:05 PM   
shool


Posts: 10118
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

Shool's just dead inside


This may be true.

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to Darth Marenghi)
Post #: 13
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:27:55 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

Shool's just dead inside


This may be true.


You don't get to be a mod without love in your heart (and the capacity to break up a fight)

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 14
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:29:34 PM   
shool


Posts: 10118
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

Shool's just dead inside


This may be true.


You don't get to be a mod without love in your heart (and the capacity to break up a fight)


Are you saying we are mushy?

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 15
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:32:19 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

Epic cinema from both films on a scale that credit must go to Nolan and his team. Nolan saw what could be done and had the vision to place that on a screen.
 
Begins brought us a template that simply blew everyone away that summer, it just arrived and my experience of seeing it is my finest cinematic experience beacuse for the first time we saw a character many of us had invested years of love into presented correctly, effectively and with knowledge and passion.
 
I sat in tears at the end because here was a film I'd spent my life wanting and waitng to see.
 
The end dialogue between Gordon and Batman defines their relationship and Batman's with the city of Gotham.
 
I never said thank you
 
And you'll never have too *head turn and drop*
 
Perefection.
 
TDK equally gave us the Joker, not what we expected but a representation that harks back so well to Kane and Finger's concept. Heath's performance a measure of the man's ability.
 
In turn, Bale 'gets' the multi-faceted Wayne like no other actor before him, Wayne is the mask.
 
A crime drama with a heart and delivered with an elegance few can match.
 
The interrgoration scene alone is enough to warrent classic status, two men locked in their own battle for eternity.
 
TDKR will complete the finest trilogy in cinematic history IMO.
 
Both films simply beautiful.
 
 


This.

While i will say i didnt cry after seeing Begins,i perfectly understand where you are coming from.Begins was one of the best cinema experiences of my life because it was FINALLY a proper film version of Batman and i left the cinema literally punching the air with delight.The final scene between Batman and Gordon perfectly sums up their relationship and when Batman is given the Joker card and says ''Il look into it'' i got chills with the promise that the best was yet to come.

For a while,i prefered Begins to TDK,but recently after rewatching it again,it struck me how great a film it is.Its one of the most unconventional sequels ever made and with quite a bleak ending.I think it is now the superior film of the two,with the origin plot out of the way,Nolan was free to just tell a great big story.


< Message edited by darth silas -- 5/8/2011 3:33:29 PM >


_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 16
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:32:24 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

Shool's just dead inside


This may be true.


You don't get to be a mod without love in your heart (and the capacity to break up a fight)


Are you saying we are mushy?


Just your capacity as a group to put up with a lot of opinionated arseholes and placate some unreasoned bullshit takes a lot of patience....

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 17
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:36:58 PM   
shool


Posts: 10118
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

Epic cinema from both films on a scale that credit must go to Nolan and his team. Nolan saw what could be done and had the vision to place that on a screen.
 
Begins brought us a template that simply blew everyone away that summer, it just arrived and my experience of seeing it is my finest cinematic experience beacuse for the first time we saw a character many of us had invested years of love into presented correctly, effectively and with knowledge and passion.
 
I sat in tears at the end because here was a film I'd spent my life wanting and waitng to see.
 
The end dialogue between Gordon and Batman defines their relationship and Batman's with the city of Gotham.
 
I never said thank you
 
And you'll never have too *head turn and drop*
 
Perefection.
 
TDK equally gave us the Joker, not what we expected but a representation that harks back so well to Kane and Finger's concept. Heath's performance a measure of the man's ability.
 
In turn, Bale 'gets' the multi-faceted Wayne like no other actor before him, Wayne is the mask.
 
A crime drama with a heart and delivered with an elegance few can match.
 
The interrgoration scene alone is enough to warrent classic status, two men locked in their own battle for eternity.
 
TDKR will complete the finest trilogy in cinematic history IMO.
 
Both films simply beautiful.
 
 


This.

While i will say i didnt cry after seeing Begins,i perfectly understand where you are coming from.Begins was one of the best cinema experiences of my life because it was FINALLY a proper film version of Batman and i left the cinema literally punching the air with delight.The final scene between Batman and Gordon perfectly sums up their relationship and when Batman is given the Joker card and says ''Il look into it'' i got chills with the promise that the best was yet to come.

For a while,i prefered Begins to TDK,but recently after rewatching it again,it struck me how great a film it is.Its one of the most unconventional sequels ever made and with quite a bleak ending.I think it is now the superior film of the two,with the origin plot out of the way,Nolan was free to just tell a great big story.



Also for me it took away the feeling of being a "Comic Book" movie and delivered it in relatable terms.
some criticise this as taking away from its fantastical fantasy origins, but it remains as one of franchises main strengths to date. That and it isnt camp or jokey like alot of other Comic book movies can be.

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 18
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:44:39 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4425
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcthefirst

Love them both. And as much as I also love the two Burton movies, these are the definitive Bats.

But this thread not end well.


Why do you say that?


All threads involving TDK descend into 'it's overrated' eventually.

_____________________________

@Jonny_C85

My Movie Blog | My Other Various Rantings Blog

(in reply to BatFan)
Post #: 19
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:49:27 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
I know credit is given to Singer for 'kick starting' the genre after a number of years on from Burton's Batman, itself, deserves credit for at least giving the genre a stab of adrenalin but it was Nolan who took the view of providing us, the audience, to be treated as fans and adults.

The view of comic books had for generations been seen as a 'geeky world' inhabited by insular, lonely men but Nolan decided to make a film that spoke to fans and newcomers alike and at a level that didn't neglect anyone.

A grown up set of films for an audience wider than ever, plus comics by this stage had and to date are, ready by the masses not just the fan-centric few and the genre films are reflecting this change.

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 20
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 3:52:08 PM   
BatFan


Posts: 2124
Joined: 27/7/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcthefirst

quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcthefirst

Love them both. And as much as I also love the two Burton movies, these are the definitive Bats.

But this thread not end well.


Why do you say that?


All threads involving TDK descend into 'it's overrated' eventually.


Oh right, well this thread is in 'Favourite films' so this thread should only be used by people who enjoy the film and want to talk about it. Anyone else can Fuck right off and make a Dark Knight is overrated thread somewhere else in the forum.

_____________________________

"You are in hell, little man! And I am the devil!"
"You're not the devil. You're practice"

(in reply to jcthefirst)
Post #: 21
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 4:45:44 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005
I've been reading Batman comics religiously since I was about 9 and I regard myself as a pretty huge fan of the character (as I'm sure most of you in this thread do) and yet my interest in Batman Begins was absolutely minimal. I like Christian Bale and I like Nolan but after Batman and Robin I had no interest in sitting through any Batman film such was my loathing for what Schumacher had done. Consequently I read little about the making of the film or the tone they were going for.

Never-the-less I couldn't help myself and went to see it at the cinema anyway and honestly Jim I probably wasn't far behind you in terms of getting emotional because quite frankly it's f*cking brilliant. Batman as it should be done.

Then they make The Dark Knight which is simply one of my favourite films of all time.

I adore both of these films and hope that we get the ending that we deserve and the ending that we need!

_____________________________

Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.

(in reply to BatFan)
Post #: 22
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 6:31:17 PM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee
These two latter films have indeed been my favourites so far of big screen Batman. However I still think that Tim Burton's first take on the Batman was superb in a completely different way. It felt truer to the comic books for me and I kind of liked that. It also had the best actor to play him in Michael Keaton. 

(in reply to Rob)
Post #: 23
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 5/8/2011 6:42:17 PM   
rich


Posts: 5054
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
Not by any means perfect but great stuff, and easily the best screen version of the character (well outside The Animated Series). Loses points for sonar-vision and ridiculous fingerprinting scenes in TDK, along with the shaky cam and extras that can't act in the first one. Dark Knight IMAX was awesome, 3D can shove it.

< Message edited by rich -- 5/8/2011 6:52:12 PM >


_____________________________

Meanwhile...

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Post #: 24
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 22/8/2011 8:36:10 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room


Really liked the look of Waynes new Batsuit in TDK.The first one worked well for Begins but he had to up the ante and i loved how the filmakers took the real life limitations of the suit and worked it into the actual story.


_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to rich)
Post #: 25
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 23/8/2011 3:01:53 PM   
ElephantBoy

 

Posts: 8627
Joined: 13/4/2006
Two very good, dark, modern and challenging comic movies, and the cast in each are fantastic with the exception of maybe Katie Holmes.

I still think Begins is slightly better as as a piece of storytelling it is tighter, more forcused and it gets the right balanced being a character driven film and the action stuff at the end, however if there is a weak note (apart from Holmes, but she isn't bad enough to be fair), then is the ninja stuff that was a bit silly. Dark Knight is a bag of ideas, like a rant against the modern world, and I love that about it, and who would have thought that Ledger would leave Nicolson standing as the Jorker. Thing is though some of the streads work better than others. Still for whatever flaws both may have, they have both given me two of the most unforgettable experiences at the cinema of the last ten years.

I am not in favour of saying those who don't like it stay out of the thread, if you talk about something as one of your favourite films, then it is peoples right to challenge that. Just to clear up this Dark Knight overated business, of course it is, but that has nothing to do with any flaws the film may have, more to do with the fact that outside of it being a masterpiece it was never going to live up to its repation. I mean it is one of the highest grossing films ever for god sakes!

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 26
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 1/9/2011 9:32:16 PM   
Bill Murray

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 18/9/2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbgLapRAloQ&feature=BFa&list=SL&lf=sh_e_se

This is for those who believe that "the Dark Knight" is one of the best movies of the new century.

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 27
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 9/9/2011 2:49:06 AM   
threshold


Posts: 319
Joined: 26/10/2010
From: Sydney, Austraiia
Lots of credit should be given to Hans Zimmer. His energetic, exciting themes inspire confidence in our Saviour. THE BATMAN.
He equals, if not, beats Danny Elfman's themes.

(in reply to Bill Murray)
Post #: 28
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 9/9/2011 3:30:58 AM   
directorscut


Posts: 10887
Joined: 30/9/2005
There were themes???

_____________________________



Member of the TMNT 1000 Club.

(in reply to threshold)
Post #: 29
RE: BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT - 9/9/2011 7:41:24 AM   
threshold


Posts: 319
Joined: 26/10/2010
From: Sydney, Austraiia
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

There were themes???

You didn't notice the themes????!!!!!

(in reply to directorscut)
Post #: 30
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