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Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up?

 
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Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:22:39 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Because Pigeon Army is being a little grump today, I decided to continue our discussion from the UFO and the Media thread.

So have at it folks. Do you think it was a cover up, and if so, why?

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:25:49 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7938
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Because Pigeon Army is being a little grump today...



It's been nice knowing you.

No, there is no cover-up.

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:26:14 PM   
Your Funny Uncle


Posts: 11998
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From: The Deepest Depths Of Joypad.....
No


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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:27:14 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
In case you are wondering, I don't either, but one or two felt there were still to be questions to be answered, etc...

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:27:34 PM   
Pigeon Army


Posts: 14612
Joined: 29/1/2006
From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.
Get a load of the dead man walking at the top of the page.

No, there was no goddamn coverup.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
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No.

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:30:57 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8322
Joined: 31/7/2008
No, obviously. Despite there having been aircraft collisions with skyscrapers in the past, there was no precedent for how an immensely tall (110-floor) building would react when directly and deliberately flown into by a speeding airliner laden with jet fuel. The fact that some find it hard to accept that the Twin Towers would collapse under such circumstances is more confusing to me than the fact that they did.

< Message edited by superdan -- 26/7/2011 1:31:25 PM >

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:32:21 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
I thought we had agreed someone's mam in a UFO did 9/11?

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:32:45 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
I think aliens did it

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:36:32 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
Transplanted from the other thread


Rgirvan44 I've read those popular mechanics articles and that's one side of the argument. The point is they don't mention the fact that the steel didn't just bend, it actually melted, there is video and eyewitness evidence to prove it. The claim about how the office furniture and combustible materials contributed the most to the fire, you do know that most modern buildings for a long time have had to comply to fire safety and have fireproof material in the premises?

Not mentioning as I did above the hundreds if not thousands of high rise office/building fires (some burning for days) which have never resulted in total collapse. Partial collapse maybe but 110 storeys coming down because of burning curtains?


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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:36:53 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Spaldron,

No building the size of the twin towers has ever been hit by a massvie plane pelting into it at full speed. This is the only time that it has happened. And anyways - what difference would it have made had the towers not fallen? Thousands were still killed.  

Please show me a peer reviewed journal that says that burning jet fuel cannot reach the kind of temperatures required to melt fire proof steel. Please.



A USAF (I think) hit the Empire State in the 30's and that sucker had bombs on  to be fair it didn't explode like


As I recall that was a pretty small plane and not a commerical airliner going at full speed.


Na mate it was a B25 Mitchelle. Canny size like...

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1940s/a/empirecrash.htm


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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:37:10 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

I think aliens did it

BULLSHIT!


It was Crab People and you know it!

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Post #: 11
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:38:00 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
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From: Enemies of Film HQ
It was the Jews. 

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:38:42 PM   
Scruffybobby

 

Posts: 4365
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: My House
quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

I think aliens did it


It was. Specifically giant space lizards. David Icke says so - probably.

< Message edited by Scruffybobby -- 26/7/2011 1:39:00 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:39:36 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Spaldron,

No building the size of the twin towers has ever been hit by a massvie plane pelting into it at full speed. This is the only time that it has happened. And anyways - what difference would it have made had the towers not fallen? Thousands were still killed.  

Please show me a peer reviewed journal that says that burning jet fuel cannot reach the kind of temperatures required to melt fire proof steel. Please.



A USAF (I think) hit the Empire State in the 30's and that sucker had bombs on  to be fair it didn't explode like


As I recall that was a pretty small plane and not a commerical airliner going at full speed.


Na mate it was a B25 Mitchelle. Canny size like...

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1940s/a/empirecrash.htm



Yeah, and in the article it states that the part of the plane was embedded into the side of the building suggesting the speed at which it hit was nowhere near that of the planes which stuck on 9/11

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Post #: 14
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:42:19 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5113
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Transplanted from the other thread


Rgirvan44 I've read those popular mechanics articles and that's one side of the argument. The point is they don't mention the fact that the steel didn't just bend, it actually melted, there is video and eyewitness evidence to prove it. The claim about how the office furniture and combustible materials contributed the most to the fire, you do know that most modern buildings for a long time have had to comply to fire safety and have fireproof material in the premises?

Not mentioning as I did above the hundreds if not thousands of high rise office/building fires (some burning for days) which have never resulted in total collapse. Partial collapse maybe but 110 storeys coming down because of burning curtains?



But how many of those were hit by a massive bugger of a plane?




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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:44:55 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
Also how did the hijackers manage to hit the buildings so accurately considering they had only a few weeks flight simulation? Do you know how hard it is to steer a passenger airliner, let alone fly it across several states and into a building only a few hundred feet wide at full speed? It would be like shooting a blade of grass with a bow and arrow from 100 feet away.

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Post #: 16
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:47:06 PM   
Woger


Posts: 3816
Joined: 30/9/2005
I've broswed through forums covering september 11th conspiracies; I don't normally use the r word but for these people it's apt.
Every nonsense conceivable has been put forward but with all the shit being thrown against the wallno one can come up with a cohesive over all basic premise. So were the hijackers in on it, were they allowed to do it, were the plaes remote contolled, were the planes really missile disguised by holograms, was there explosives or super thermite planted in the buildings
Nonsense the lot of it. The type of people who belive this are the people who once they hear of a tragedy their mind springs to conspiracy concocting some all powerful group in the world that's out to get people. It's the ultimate cop out. I gurantee there a conspiracy theory doing the rounds for the tragedy in Norway right now.

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Post #: 17
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:47:24 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Spaldron,

No building the size of the twin towers has ever been hit by a massvie plane pelting into it at full speed. This is the only time that it has happened. And anyways - what difference would it have made had the towers not fallen? Thousands were still killed.  

Please show me a peer reviewed journal that says that burning jet fuel cannot reach the kind of temperatures required to melt fire proof steel. Please.



A USAF (I think) hit the Empire State in the 30's and that sucker had bombs on  to be fair it didn't explode like


As I recall that was a pretty small plane and not a commerical airliner going at full speed.


Na mate it was a B25 Mitchelle. Canny size like...

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1940s/a/empirecrash.htm



Yeah, and in the article it states that the part of the plane was embedded into the side of the building suggesting the speed at which it hit was nowhere near that of the planes which stuck on 9/11


I know, I'm just stating it wasn't a "Pretty small plane" as you put it.

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:47:51 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Was it across other states? The New York ones were from Newark - which isn't very far away at all.



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Post #: 19
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:48:42 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Spaldron,

No building the size of the twin towers has ever been hit by a massvie plane pelting into it at full speed. This is the only time that it has happened. And anyways - what difference would it have made had the towers not fallen? Thousands were still killed.  

Please show me a peer reviewed journal that says that burning jet fuel cannot reach the kind of temperatures required to melt fire proof steel. Please.



A USAF (I think) hit the Empire State in the 30's and that sucker had bombs on  to be fair it didn't explode like


As I recall that was a pretty small plane and not a commerical airliner going at full speed.


Na mate it was a B25 Mitchelle. Canny size like...

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1940s/a/empirecrash.htm



Yeah, and in the article it states that the part of the plane was embedded into the side of the building suggesting the speed at which it hit was nowhere near that of the planes which stuck on 9/11


I know, I'm just stating it wasn't a "Pretty small plane" as you put it.


Ah right, fair do's!

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 20
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:48:45 PM   
Woger


Posts: 3816
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Also how did the hijackers manage to hit the buildings so accurately considering they had only a few weeks flight simulation? Do you know how hard it is to steer a passenger airliner, let alone fly it across several states and into a building only a few hundred feet wide at full speed? It would be like shooting a blade of grass with a bow and arrow from 100 feet away.


So someone put themselves forward to fly the planes for team Bush?

_____________________________

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Richie: You may have been, but I have never in my life. As a christian I am so tightly clenched, oh you mean burgaled
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There were originally five horsemen of the apocalypse. Jack Bauer said he would travel by foot

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Post #: 21
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:49:56 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8322
Joined: 31/7/2008
Aren't B-25's one of those planes that was wood and canvas as much as metal? Probably weigh a bit less and don't go as fast, especially when flying through thick fog over a city like when that ESB accident happened.

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Post #: 22
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:50:34 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Woger

I've broswed through forums covering september 11th conspiracies; I don't normally use the r word but for these people it's apt.



Raffle?


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And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 23
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:51:17 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7938
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

It was the Jews. 


Oh hai Mel Gibson.

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:51:44 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

Aren't B-25's one of those planes that was wood and canvas as much as metal? Probably weigh a bit less and don't go as fast, especially when flying through thick fog over a city like when that ESB accident happened.


Oh yeah totally. I've never said it was the same as 757's, its just a convo me and Rg was having in the UFO thread is all.


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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:51:47 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14582
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
I don't think it was a cover up, but I do find it odd how all the safety and security systems regarding airspace and flight regulations failed so catastrophically on the day of the event - especially how the second plane got through to hit the other tower.

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RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:52:36 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Was it across other states? The New York ones were from Newark - which isn't very far away at all.




States in the east coast are tiny and clustered but the distance was big enough that you couldn't actually look out the window and see the towers.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 27
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:53:30 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Was it across other states? The New York ones were from Newark - which isn't very far away at all.




States in the east coast are tiny and clustered but the distance was big enough that you couldn't actually look out the window and see the towers.


Having been to Newark airport I can actully confirm that you can see the New York skyline in the distance.

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Post #: 28
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:53:51 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6295
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
To avoid the wrath of my antipodean colleague...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Burning jet fuel cannot reach the kind of temperatures required to melt fire proof steel. Look at the thousands of high rise fires around the world and how many of them have collapsed as a result of fire damage?



I don't know; how many of them have had almost fully-laden jet airliners plough into them?  How many were full of aviation fuel at the time?  

The fire didn't have to melt steel, it just had to weaken its structural integrity to such a degree that the several thousand tons of building above it caused it to collapse.  Which has been proved again and again to be not only plausible, but inevitable given the unique structure of WTC 1 & 2.  The temperature at which aviation fuel burns will reduce the structural strength of steel by almost 90%, more than enough to cause warping.  No report says it was fire that brought the building down; rather it was a fire-induced, gravity-driven collapse.


quote:

I don't think a missile hit the building, it could have been the hijacked 757 or it could have been a military aircraft. It was definitely a plane of some sort, the troubling thing is, why hasn't the CCTV footage been released after all these years and how come the recovered engine remains don't match the supposedly hijacked plane?



Hasn't that particular theory been completely debunked by aviation experts, American Airlines and the engine manufacturers already?  The circular disc that was claimed to be small for a 757 turbofan was in fact just the exact size of a 757 jet diffuser which it also looked exactly like. Coincidence?  I think not!  CCTV footage was released following Freedom of Information requests; it was held back previously as it was evidence in an ongoing investigation. 

quote:

This is a tricky one, there are some reports it was hit by a missile strike, other reports (according to eyewitnesses) that it landed safely at Cleveland airport and was evacuated, the passengers bussed off somewhere (while apparently the plane was taken to a hangar and repainted, I'm sceptical about this). What's for sure is that the wreckage of "flight 93" was unusual for a standard crash as there wasn't much of it at all, more like a small hole in the ground.


So one set of eyewitnesses are accepted because their story fits the conspiracy theory, yet those that saw the fireball and heard the screaming engines seconds before the explosion are discounted?  The plane at Cleveland turned out to be a case of mistaken identity - it was a Delta Airlines flight that was misreported by Associated Press as being United 93.  The report was withdrawn minutes later, once the error had been identified.

As for the debris field, the plane went from 500+ mph to zero.  Contrary to the beliefs of the conspiracy theorists, high-speed impacts don't tend to leave much debris behind, but what was found (including the engine, that had been thrown about 300m away from the site) was from United 93.


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Post #: 29
RE: Do you believe that 9/11 was a cover up? - 26/7/2011 1:55:07 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron
Also how did the hijackers manage to hit the buildings so accurately considering they had only a few weeks flight simulation? Do you know how hard it is to steer a passenger airliner, let alone fly it across several states and into a building only a few hundred feet wide at full speed? It would be like shooting a blade of grass with a bow and arrow from 100 feet away.


Didn't they actually have some proper flying lessons as well? And aren't the most difficult parts of flying a plane take-off and landing? The pros did the take-off. Obviously they weren't that worried about landing...

Also not at all like shooting a blade of grass with a bow and arrow from a hundred feet, mainly cos the Twin Towers were fucking massive in comparison to the planes and you can't control an arrow once it's left the bow.

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Post #: 30
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