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RE: The Walking Dead....the game

 
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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 17/1/2013 11:28:11 AM   
losthighway


Posts: 3246
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford

quote:

ORIGINAL: From_Hell

Roughly how long do the episodes take to play through?


They're different data sizes but Episode 2 took me about 1.5 - 2hrs and Episode 3 is about 500MB.


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Post #: 181
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 17/1/2013 1:06:48 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6274
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: losthighway


quote:

ORIGINAL: From_Hell

Roughly how long do the episodes take to play through?


They're different data sizes but Episode 2 took me about 1.5 - 2hrs and Episode 3 is about 500MB.



Yeah, as a general rule of thumb allow about 2 hours per episode.

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Post #: 182
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 17/1/2013 2:00:09 PM   
From_Hell


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Lovely. Thank you both

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Post #: 183
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 18/1/2013 5:44:32 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10597
Joined: 30/9/2005
So I finished the game and came out thinking "Well there's another game people are massively over-rating."

Here's why:

1.) Little to no gameplay. And yes having little to no gameplay in a video game is a MASSIVE problem. When the majority of your gameplay is "Rapidly Press A", there is a problem with your "game".

2.) Barely any puzzles and they are all piss-easy. Even with tips turned off this game presents absolutely no challenge whatsoever.

3.) It couldn't be more linear if it was a straight line.

4.) Choices are purely cosmetic and don't amount to a hill of beans at the end. This wouldn't be such a big deal if they didn't say at the beginning of each new game: "This game series adapts to the choices you make. The story is tailored to how you play." No it doesn't and no it isn't.

5.) Timed dialogue choices. Ugh.

6.) Dialogue that doesn't match the dialogue option you selected. Aka: BioWare Dialogue Wheel Disease.

7.) I don't care what your context is, having teaching a nine year old girl to shoot and have her bash heads in is sick, man.

8.) Post credits sequence. GRRRR. I knew the moment it appeared it would just be some awful, lazy tease. Can't people write proper endings anymore?

9.) The game is relentlessly nihilistic to the point of exhaustion and apathy on the part of the player. After you've killed twenty NPCs just for shock value (or cutting player choice off) then further deaths cease to be effective and I'm just playing the waiting game. During Episode 3 I had a bout of depression. During 4-5 I wasn't the least bit surprised when someone died.

10.) Excessive strong language. I'm not against strong language but when "f--k-ing" is the only adjective you know and characters say "F--k!" because they can't open a bean can then it's a case of bad, lazy writing.

11.) No saves states. So when the games bugs out (and it did a few times) you go all the way back to the last time the crappy auto-save arbitrarily decided to save. Usually 10-15 minutes back. And then you can't skip the dialogue or cutscenes you've already seen. GRRRR. How hard is it to implement a save system? Answer: It isn't!

Overall I enjoyed the game - and 90% of that enjoyment came from the Lee/Clementine characters and relationship. But a great game? GOTY? One of the best video game stories ever??? Get real people.

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Post #: 184
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 18/1/2013 10:40:11 PM   
the anomaly


Posts: 6417
Joined: 20/6/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut
So I finished the game and came out thinking "Well there's another game people are massively over-rating."


As a "graphic adventure game" basically a point and click game I thought it ticked the boxes. Not sure what you expected from a game of that genre? It's clear the focus was on telling the story and involving the player in the tough choices they would have to make.

Agreed the puzzle difficulty could have been upped but it's clear Tell Tell Games actually wanted people to finish it. Sure it sucks for people who want a challenge but with the focus on storytelling it's important people can get through it. I've no doubt they wanted to drag in fans of the show who aren't big gamers. It's a game many of my mates have managed to get other people involved who aren't gamers. Which fair enough you may not care about! But I for one am pleased as the fact is it may be a interactive graphic novel ... but it's still a game. So for me it's been great to have people who don't understand/appreciate my hobby actually start to get it and be involved. The stat sharing was a nice touch which has helped the game become a talking point.

In regards to the story ... it is horribly depressing. In true Walking Dead style. The comic had me down so much at one point I just didn't want to read any more. That's part of the appeal though. Walking Dead's books are bold, brutal, grind of a story which pulls no punches and I'm glad elements of that realism are in the game. Well I say realism but I believe there's a balance of that and entertainment. Your point in regards to being shocked at death early on ... but by the end just expecting it. That's to be expected after going through the zombie apocalypse. It's noted in the game that various characters feel that way.

Can't say I agree with you in terms of the choices. They clearly do change the game and your experience. Having played through certain sections again I'd agree definitely some choices are bigger than others. Yet even when they have the same result the journey is different. The journey is your experience through the game. Not just the end result.

SPOILERS

For instance a certain character decides to leave the group. Depending on your choices it's an extremely different emotional experience for the player. The end result may be the same. The character will still depart from the story but having spoken to friends about their choices we've both had a different experience.

The fact they were timed added much needed pressure to the experience ... OK I may have had to pause the game once or twice ... but generally I thought it worked well.

All in all I thought the game was a success. The strength of the story telling through the writing, direction, voice acting and gameplay served to put you in Lee's shoes and truly play his role. Yes it's up there with what I consider to be my favourite / the best stories told in the medium. It plays to it's strengths and I think succeeds at what it sets out to do.

IMPROVEMENTS FOR WALKING DEAD SEASON 2

- Add the ability to skip dialogue. After a few playthroughs you may just want to get to certain scenes ...
- The lack of save states added to the pressure and prevented you from simply going back on choices made. So mixed feelings about that. It definitely made it more addictive but there's always a trade off.
- The controls could have been better. Even if you take into consideration that it was by design (as Lee wasn't some action hero) the aiming could be extremely slippery.
- The puzzles never topped the parking lot zombie killing in the first episode. Whilst serving to highlight a certain characters lack of technical knowledge ... adding batteries to a radio was bit embarrassing. Add a difficulty setting ... then everyone is happy.
- A splintered story point - a point at which the story actually splits. For instance early in the game I made a choice partly because I thought it would affect where I got next. It didn't. It would be interesting to have the choice to stay with your original group or split off for instance.


< Message edited by the anomaly -- 18/1/2013 10:42:05 PM >

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Post #: 185
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 21/1/2013 12:04:47 PM   
losthighway


Posts: 3246
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford
Can't say I agree with much of directorscuts criticisms, I finished this on Saturday and in a word... stunning! An excellent game which thoroughly deserved the awards and Game of 2012 accolades. The emotional depth of the game was fantastic with an ending that worked both as a spring board into Season 2 or as an ending for you to make up your own conclusion. Personally I can't wait for S2!

I think if you're a fan of the original comics then this game is a must play and will definitely be a winner for you. It has the emotional core of the comics which the TV show has sorely lacked. As for complaints about teaching a 9 year old to shoot/swearing/only pressing button A... hmmm, then don't play/continue downloading the game! Those elements are presented pretty early on (thinking episode 2 & 3). Just a thought! Plus, they are integral to the actual story/WD universe.

< Message edited by losthighway -- 21/1/2013 12:08:52 PM >


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Post #: 186
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 21/1/2013 2:26:19 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
I got this on my iPhone for a recent long journey and am thoroughly enjoying it, but kinda agree that it isn't really 'Game Of The Year' material.

I've no issue with point and click, or quick time event led games, or simple single button mashing (Hell, one of my favourite games of the last few years was Heavy Rain!) but it doesn't really stand up as full on gameplay in my opinion. It's more of an interactive comic book than fully fledged game. People did nothing but moan about Heavy Rain's simple game mechanics or MGS constant dialogue cutscenes, but here is The Walking Dead doing very similar things (in a very, very good way) and people are praising it as the greastest thing released all year...... madness!

I've really enjoyed it so far (I'm now about two thirds of the way through Episode 5) though, but I have looked at it more as an interactive comic than as a 'game'. I dont have any issue with the bleak setting, choices offered to me as a player or with the language or anything like that and in fact my only criticism of the whole thing would likely be some of the voice acting (Clem, I'm looking at you!) and the fact that no matter what I choose to do, I'll always end up in the same scenario a few moments later (I'm thinking about Episode 3 and trying to save Carly - I cant save her and no matter what Lily leaves the story at that point, I wanted to try to redeem her!) so the only real impact is a change up of some dialogue, and as far as I can tell so far, the finale is gearing up to the inevitable (I dont think I can change what is actually going to happen - maybe I'm wrong?) and the only thing I've influenced in this part is who actually chooses to come along to find Clem.

It's good, no doubt, with a compelling story that is well told and, for the most part, well acted. It will probably have me replaying it a few times to see if I can genuinely change any of the outcomes and see things I've missed. It's good, at times great, but game of the year? No fucking chance.

< Message edited by porntrooper -- 21/1/2013 2:27:13 PM >


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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 21/1/2013 2:50:27 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10597
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

As a "graphic adventure game" basically a point and click game I thought it ticked the boxes. Not sure what you expected from a game of that genre? It's clear the focus was on telling the story and involving the player in the tough choices they would have to make.


I'm comparing it to the greats of the genre - Monkey Island, Gabriel Knight, The Dig, Grim Fandango, Blade Runner, Tex Murphy, Broken Sword - and it falls woefully short of these. All of these had great stories and were heavy on dialogue but you always felt like you were playing a game - not just watching an extended cinematic with some QTEs thrown in. There's no real inventory, no combining inventory, no multiple solutions to "puzzles", no sense of exploration, no sense of freedom. Any time the game decides to change it up just involved walking in a straight line or a terrible version of Time Crisis.

Even compared to more modern P&C adventure games - Resonance (the real GOTY), Gemini Rue and Gray Matter, it falls woefully short in providing gameplay.

quote:


Can't say I agree with you in terms of the choices. They clearly do change the game and your experience. Having played through certain sections again I'd agree definitely some choices are bigger than others. Yet even when they have the same result the journey is different. The journey is your experience through the game. Not just the end result.

SPOILERS

For instance a certain character decides to leave the group. Depending on your choices it's an extremely different emotional experience for the player. The end result may be the same. The character will still depart from the story but having spoken to friends about their choices we've both had a different experience.



SPOILERS


The best example of choices not meaning squat is in part five, where you can either cut off a character's arm or not. The choice is purely cosmetic. If you cut off his arm he still runs around like Rambo, jumping from building and being completely unhampered in doing anything. In fact he's probably more capable than he was before!


END SPOILERS


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Post #: 188
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 21/1/2013 2:59:40 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

There's no real inventory, no combining inventory, no multiple solutions to "puzzles", no sense of exploration, no sense of freedom.


Absolutely, the puzzles aren't really puzzles and there isn't any inventory and most times use of objects in the 'game' is no more than 'pick up something here to cut that thing there', or 'pick up tape to stick that' and 'pick up a wrench to pull open that'. It's impossible to fail at any of it really and there is no real challenge to complete it. It's so basic I don't know why anyone could consider it to be 'gameplay' enough to class it as 'game of the year'. I enjoyed it, no doubt, and the story was pretty compelling in most places, but I do think people are being a little ott with the praise.

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Post #: 189
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 29/1/2013 11:56:59 PM   
the anomaly


Posts: 6417
Joined: 20/6/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

quote:

As a "graphic adventure game" basically a point and click game I thought it ticked the boxes. Not sure what you expected from a game of that genre? It's clear the focus was on telling the story and involving the player in the tough choices they would have to make.


I'm comparing it to the greats of the genre - Monkey Island, Gabriel Knight, The Dig, Grim Fandango, Blade Runner, Tex Murphy, Broken Sword - and it falls woefully short of these. All of these had great stories and were heavy on dialogue but you always felt like you were playing a game - not just watching an extended cinematic with some QTEs thrown in. There's no real inventory, no combining inventory, no multiple solutions to "puzzles", no sense of exploration, no sense of freedom. Any time the game decides to change it up just involved walking in a straight line or a terrible version of Time Crisis.

Even compared to more modern P&C adventure games - Resonance (the real GOTY), Gemini Rue and Gray Matter, it falls woefully short in providing gameplay.


In regards to the inventory etc I here where your coming from. Though I don't think the choice to focus on action sequences and few puzzles terribly hurt the game. I also think your selling the use of QTE short in the game. I personally don't have probably using QTE's when they are well thought out and designed as I think they are in this game. The action sequences never felt like cheap random combinations of meaningless buttons. Instead it felt like you were in control and naturally responding to the game.In my opinion it was designed in a way to give you the illusion of control and still seem exciting. Best example was in the church tower. Climbing the steps, shooting zombies, getting stuck and pulling out your leg whilst looking up to shoot zombies etc Finally climbing the stairs and hacking through the zombies. That's all on rails and limited but was done in a way which made it exciting and using combinations you'd expect. It was much more than just a series of random prompts appearing on screen and hammering combinations in a la a dance central game or something.

All in all I'll add it was more action/graphic adventure than puzzle/graphic adventure. Which given the source material I think worked. Sure there could have been some deeper puzzle aspects during the lull in action (suited for a hard mode I think) but I think what's there worked well. Of all the graphic adventure games I've played ... they've all been quite linear. You can explore but I've never played one where there were multiple solutions to the puzzles. They generally follow the same pattern of explore, try to grab obscured items in the environment and finally try to figure out the order to use them in. Again I'd agree there could have been a bit of that in this but I'm glad it wasn't weighed down by this due to the material.


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut
quote:


Can't say I agree with you in terms of the choices. They clearly do change the game and your experience. Having played through certain sections again I'd agree definitely some choices are bigger than others. Yet even when they have the same result the journey is different. The journey is your experience through the game. Not just the end result.

SPOILERS

For instance a certain character decides to leave the group. Depending on your choices it's an extremely different emotional experience for the player. The end result may be the same. The character will still depart from the story but having spoken to friends about their choices we've both had a different experience.



SPOILERS


The best example of choices not meaning squat is in part five, where you can either cut off a character's arm or not. The choice is purely cosmetic. If you cut off his arm he still runs around like Rambo, jumping from building and being completely unhampered in doing anything. In fact he's probably more capable than he was before!


END SPOILERS




I'd still argue my initial point in this case. The experience of the choice is still important. There is a difference in experience of the player who felt they needed to cut their arm off and the person who didn't. I noted before I fully acknowledge the end result of some of the choices wind up being the same. To be honest there has to be some cross over to wind everything up so you've got to be a bit forgiving in that respect. Though fair enough if you thought there should have been more game changing choices.

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Post #: 190
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 30/1/2013 3:06:28 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2532
Joined: 30/9/2005
I generally agree with DC on the gameplay front, it doesn't really have any. I wouldn't even really class The Walking Dead as a game in the strictest sense.

20 minutes into the first episode I'd decided that the gameplay was all rather micky mouse if I'm honest, fortunately however the story pulled me through.

That's what it is ultimately, an interactive storyboard, albeit with one of the most engrossing narratives I've come across in a game for some time.

I love it to bits don't get me wrong (so far that is, still need to play through the last episode actually), but a blind man could stumble his way through the "gameplay".

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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 8/2/2013 10:37:36 AM   
Your Funny Uncle


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SPOILERS

Finally finished after buying some more points....


FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUCK YYYYYYYOOOOOOOOU!







Great game though!

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Post #: 192
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 23/3/2013 5:58:39 PM   
Your Funny Uncle


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For anyone who still hasn't played this as of Tuesday Episode 1 is free on the Marketplace, all other episodes are half price. Bargain.

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Post #: 193
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 25/3/2013 9:13:09 AM   
Chief


Posts: 7747
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From: Banshee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Your Funny Uncle

For anyone who still hasn't played this as of Tuesday Episode 1 is free on the Marketplace, all other episodes are half price. Bargain.


Sound. I've got a load of points burning a hole in my virtual pocket.

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Post #: 194
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 25/3/2013 1:41:11 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7909
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulyboy

I generally agree with DC on the gameplay front, it doesn't really have any. I wouldn't even really class The Walking Dead as a game in the strictest sense.

20 minutes into the first episode I'd decided that the gameplay was all rather micky mouse if I'm honest, fortunately however the story pulled me through.



Yeah, same here. Started episode one last night and felt that the gameplay was essentially a series of choices that result in unintended consequences to drive a potentially emotive storyline forward (along with a little bit of dull QTE). It's not really a game in that sense, and for that I'm kind of disappointed.


< Message edited by clownfoot -- 25/3/2013 1:57:54 PM >


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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 25/3/2013 1:54:23 PM   
Chief


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From: Banshee
Has anyone played the Survival Instinct game? Is it just a ropey cash in?

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Post #: 196
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 12/4/2013 10:25:51 PM   
JAYDAK1SS


Posts: 274
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Finally bought the bundle, completed ep 5 and, treating it more as an interactive comic, WOW.

I don't want to replay the game because I want to remember the story and events as if I had been watching a film, changing

things and taking different actions may water down the original experience for me.

A little disappointed that reading through the comments that the choices don't really matter, hopefully that will improve in season

2.......





And fuck you Lilly.

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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 15/4/2013 12:05:37 PM   
Y2Neildotcom


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This was one of my favourite games of the year, but I'm a Walking Dead addict. Love the show, love the graphic novels and even enjoyed Survival Instinct.

Yes it does lack some puzzles and "gameplay", but I didn't feel that's what gave it the GOTY award. I feel it was being immersed in the zombie apocalypse.

I was genuinely on the edge of my seat the whole way through with tension and the certain scenes you've mentioned - the big choices - and given the time pressure I actually felt that this was my story. I was part of this world and was really trying to play the game as I probably would in a real zombie apocalyspe, putting myself into the action.

This is what made me enjoy the game, this is what made me give it the thumbs up when it won the award.

I'd love to see your suggestions for improvements in the second season, more challenges and interactions, more story paths to explore, but my hat goes off to Telltale for this adventure, one I thoroughly enjoyed.

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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 9/5/2013 3:23:50 PM   
Y2Neildotcom


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So this is released tomorrow on disc for those too lazy not to have Xbox Live.

Does anyone know if it's got any bonus content at all?

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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 10/5/2013 7:53:09 AM   
borstal


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Who cares if its not really much of a game more of a story with gamey bits. As a piece of entertainment it was fantastic. The emotional investment you made with Clem was spot on which made the inevitable end still pretty powerful. There were some very memorable points especially involving Kenny and his family.

I think some claimed GotY because of the above and its offering something a bit different. Its not my GotY but have no problems with others feeling this. Its not really a true point and click but it still uses that device. In a world where people moan about generic FPS its refreshing that something different is on offer.

Im looking forward to seeing what happens next and I'd like to see them be bold and leave Clems story done.

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Post #: 200
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 13/5/2013 3:29:25 PM   
ghost dog


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I finally got round to finishing this over the weekend (bought the Season Pass on PSN at launch)...wow, what an ending.

For me it wasn't about the gameplay, it was about the stories, the characters and the whole journey. It really is outstanding. Really left me emotionally drained throughout, but that ending...shattered me.

Did you all watch the post-credits scene...thought that was a nice touch, and lead into Season 2.

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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 23/6/2013 7:19:03 PM   
Your Funny Uncle


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Season 2 Teasers

Here!

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Post #: 202
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 24/6/2013 8:47:40 AM   
Chief


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From: Banshee
I just can't get into this at all. Played the first episode ages ago then downloaded the others in the last sale.
I don't know if it's the slow walking pace or the loading screens between every door but the second episode felt like more of a chore than anything.

The only good thing that's came out of it is that it has confirmed my theory that I'd be better off on my own in a zombie apocalypse. Fuck people.

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Post #: 203
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 30/6/2013 6:29:55 AM   
Your Funny Uncle


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You have no soul Chief.

Trailer

Clicky!

Looks like there's no Clem. Which I think is probably a good thing.

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Post #: 204
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 30/6/2013 12:56:05 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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I assume she'll be in season 2 although no details have been confirmed yet. Only that you'll get hints of season 2 during 400 Days.

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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 1/7/2013 12:10:22 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4415
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Your Funny Uncle

You have no soul Chief.

Trailer

Clicky!

Looks like there's no Clem. Which I think is probably a good thing.


Is that a season 2 trailer? I'm in work and can't check.

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RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 7/7/2013 11:59:01 AM   
Your Funny Uncle


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So, currently I've done Wyatt and Vinces story.


Possible spoilers


Is Vince Glenns brother? I reckon he could be. I also noticed he ran past the drug store that we encountered in Season 1.


Wyatt - I won the game of rock/paper/scissors (I'm guessing you can lose) so I stayed in the car, ended up leaving the poor guy behind! I never had a choice!


Looking forward to playing through the next three over the next couple of days. Hope there's a few more references to Season 1.


It's not as emotional as Season One but that's probably because they're squeezing five introductions into one episode. I'm just looking at this to bridge the gap between seasons and it will give a bit of back story to the characters for Season 2. I'm hoping the decisions here make a big difference to what happens in Season 2.

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(in reply to jcthefirst)
Post #: 207
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 8/7/2013 12:14:37 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4415
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
SPOILERS

quote:

Vince's story: shot the possible peados leg off and escaped.
Wyatt's story; drove off and left my buddy. (I don't think there's a choice here)
Russell's story: didn't kill the old couple.
Bonnie's story: lied to the bloke about his wife.
Shel's story: killed the girl who tried to escape.

All but Shel (and her bitch sister) came with me at the end.


END SPOILERS

All in all, very short, but an interesting little experiment. Hopefully that means I have these charatcers as part of the group in Season 2. The episode itself is like a series of in between season webisodes. Unnecessary, maybe, but it means we can hit the ground running in Season 2 without the need for character introductions.

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(in reply to Your Funny Uncle)
Post #: 208
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 8/7/2013 7:15:59 PM   
Your Funny Uncle


Posts: 11847
Joined: 14/11/2005
From: The Deepest Depths Of Joypad.....
Spoilers

quote:



Vince's story: shot the possible peados leg off and escaped.
Wyatt's story; drove off and left my buddy. (I don't think there's a choice here)
Russell's story: didn't kill the old couple.
Bonnie's story: lied to the bloke about his wife.
Shel's story: did a runner in the RV

At the end, three decided to go for the new settlement, Vinca and Russell didn't.


Pretty much the same as you then JC except for the last.

A nice touch was during Russells story running into Carley and a nice little throwback to season one. So was the fact that we met some of the support group that stole the boat in Season One

All great stuff that links it all in. I like shit like that.


I also liked how most of the stories linked into each other like Nate being the guy chasing Wyatt and Shels group being the group chasing Bonnie

< Message edited by Your Funny Uncle -- 8/7/2013 7:17:59 PM >


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(in reply to jcthefirst)
Post #: 209
RE: The Walking Dead....the game - 23/7/2013 8:31:01 AM   
Drew_231

 

Posts: 847
Joined: 7/5/2008
I picked this up on the Steam sale and have been playing through it over the last week

It's an exceptional experience, one which I think everyone should play. This is the type of game you show people when making the case for games being more than just mindless shoot em ups.
The actual puzzle solving is not too hard, but the games' primary focus is on telling the story so I was never too bothered about that.
The voice acting is superb, some of the best I have heard, with both Lee and Clemintine standing out

Spoiler for the final episode

Sawing your hand off is one of the most brutal things I have ever experienced in a game. Even more so than the eye drilling in Dead Space 2

(in reply to Your Funny Uncle)
Post #: 210
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