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RE: DC Exodus

 
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RE: DC Exodus - 5/2/2014 10:45:44 AM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3041
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild about Wilder

Never thought I'd say this BUT! after more years than I care to mention I'm seriously getting disilusioned with the state of the industry & product & am thinking of just cutting back to the bear minimum of maybe 8-10 a month as with all the multiple crossovers between comics I don't & have no intention of getting (mainly DC) it's begining to make me lose faith in the whole industry.


I only get one regular monthly title with the occasional mini series or special here and there...

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(in reply to Wild about Wilder)
Post #: 571
RE: DC Exodus - 5/2/2014 10:41:12 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W

quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Why are there never any stories of people leaving Marvel to work for DC I wonder?

http://www.newsarama.com/20207-batman-editor-mike-marts-returns-to-marvel-as-executive-editor.html


Self Publish/Online --> DC --> Marvel --> Image. This is the desired trajectory of any serious comic creator these days. "The Big Two" are just stepping stones. Whole new world.


I would suggest a tiny alteration and say that it currently stands as Self Publish/Online --> DC --> Marvel --> Image --> film/television. That seems to be where the money is and Image's creator ownership model makes it considerably more appealing if you can make a Walking Dead-style success out of it. (Hence canny guys like Brubaker and Morrison gravitating in their direction, or Mark Millar's new book practically screaming 'make a movie/tv show out of me please'.)

Obviously, people need to make a living so I don't really take exception to this. And the whole setup at Image currently has a nice balance between 1. make the book you (the creator) want to make and 2. it's on you to make it both a critical and a commercial success. Particularly good since creator-owned books don't have the benefit of a legion of drones buying based on a title character, ergo good reviews are required for good sales. If Stephenson or Fraction or DeConnick end up rich off the back of selling the rights to their Image titles to Hollywood, it'll be deserved because they made the books commercially viable in the first place by making them really good reads.

Otherwise I totally agree regarding the present status of the Big Two. I'm buying more comics now than I was at any point over the last five years at least, but I only buy one DC/Marvel book (Trillium, though Sandman as well whenever it feels like coming out).

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(in reply to furrybastard)
Post #: 572
RE: DC Exodus - 6/2/2014 12:00:45 AM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Self Publish/Online --> DC --> Marvel --> Image. This is the desired trajectory of any serious comic creator these days. "The Big Two" are just stepping stones. Whole new world.


I would suggest a tiny alteration and say that it currently stands as Self Publish/Online --> DC --> Marvel --> Image --> film/television. That seems to be where the money is and Image's creator ownership model makes it considerably more appealing if you can make a Walking Dead-style success out of it. (Hence canny guys like Brubaker and Morrison gravitating in their direction, or Mark Millar's new book practically screaming 'make a movie/tv show out of me please'.)

Obviously, people need to make a living so I don't really take exception to this. And the whole setup at Image currently has a nice balance between 1. make the book you (the creator) want to make and 2. it's on you to make it both a critical and a commercial success. Particularly good since creator-owned books don't have the benefit of a legion of drones buying based on a title character, ergo good reviews are required for good sales. If Stephenson or Fraction or DeConnick end up rich off the back of selling the rights to their Image titles to Hollywood, it'll be deserved because they made the books commercially viable in the first place by making them really good reads.

Otherwise I totally agree regarding the present status of the Big Two. I'm buying more comics now than I was at any point over the last five years at least, but I only buy one DC/Marvel book (Trillium, though Sandman as well whenever it feels like coming out).


Hmm. Well I feel that the vast majority of Image comics are intended to be just that and it's not really a case of creators trying to break into film/television. Mark Millar and Kirkman's Skybound are very much attempting to do those things but with comics like Prophet, Fatale, Manhattan Projects, East of West and Saga etc., I really think those comics are meant to be comics. Most of them woudn't make for particularly appealing adaptations and don't seem to be chasing the Hollywood dollar either (Vaughan - already a successful TV writer - and Staples have refused to sell the rights to Saga for any kind of media adaptation).

There is that mentality of creating comics with the sole purpose of making them into movies and it's a rather sad state of affairs if the industry goes that way. In fact I would argue that it's Marvel and DC who are very much at the forefront of this. There have been a few creators becoming quite vocal about this in recent years, feeling that they are hired to do work-for-hire for one of the "Big Two" who then stripmine any successful ideas to turn into movies and the creators get zero credit. Looking at things like the New 52, stuff like Green Arrow and Wonder Woman are clearly DC attempting to cultivate these characters for media adaptation. Ditto with Marvel's constant reimagining of series' like Black Widow, Dearedevil etc. Brubaker's Captain America run is being adapted into the Winter Soldier movie. Warren Ellis was quite vocal about how he found this practice distasteful; I don't think he was too impressed by the Iron Man films cherrypicking from his Iron Man: Extremis with no credit. (I believe Brubaker has been credited in the new Captain America film)

I would argue that Image are at the forefront of moving away from this practice (whilst simultaneously serving as one of the prime examples in the case of The Walking Dead!). If you're going to sell your ideas, then it's best to be the one who profits from it too. I think a lot of creators at Marvel and DC are feeling like they're being paid scale and then their work is later used in massively successful, billion dollar grossing movies and they get absolutely nothing for it, not even a story credit. Jim Starlin is a good example here; he gave an interview about a year ago saying he was surprised to having not been consulted about Thanos appearing at the end of Avengers because a) he created the character and b) it turns out he actually owns the character and - through whatever convuluted methods these companies have - Marvel does not; they're essentially leasing Thanos from him. Apparently Marvel were on the phone with him within a few hours; I imagine that little fact caused quite the panic. But that's the exception to the rule. Most creators don't see squat from their ideas being adapted.

For me, Image are the one company that's still making comics for the sake of comics. That's likely the reason so many writers and artists are abandoning Marvel and DC and saving their best work for Image.


< Message edited by furrybastard -- 6/2/2014 12:11:48 AM >

(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 573
RE: DC Exodus - 6/2/2014 12:34:45 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
I probably wasn't as clear as I wanted to be - of course, there's a great range of titles that are intended to be comics first and foremost right now (probably my three favourite books at the moment are Nowhere Men, Manhattan Projects and Sex Criminals, and none of them particularly cry out for a blockbuster film adaptation).

And I wouldn't disagree for a second for DC and Marvel are the worst for aiming the market in the direction of film adaptations. (I'm reminded of the recent introduction of Nick Fury's black, also eyepatched son, also called Nick Fury, with a friend called Agent Coulson.) They're clearly responsible for setting the whole thing into motion with their success with adaptations over the last decade particularly. My point is more that the film/TV side of things is by far the biggest money generator in the comics industry since the comics themselves aren't a mass medium anymore, so the reality is that creators need to have one eye on that as a potential source of income. So if you do want to make money in the comics industry - and again, I wouldn't look down on anyone who does as long as they're producing good work - the choice becomes: work for DC/Marvel and get nothing when they turn your ideas into billion-dollar movies, or take said ideas to Image and keep the money yourself. Image was founded in the first place around an intersection of commercial and creative interests, and that's still the case.

That intersection has made it by far the best company in the mainstream comics industry right now (probably because it's essentially an 'indie' sensibility at heart), and I hope it continues without a number of suspiciously PG-13 superhero film treatments disguised as comic books start springing up. Luckily their current editorial seems to have a clear sense of what's good comics rather than what's a good potential movie, which I guess is what it'll always hinge on (compare Image today to Image in the 90s).

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(in reply to furrybastard)
Post #: 574
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