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RE: First class - 24/6/2011 12:01:17 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
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From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

,how he and Erik patched up all their differences and were all chummy again by the mid 80's,show them building Cerebro together


I can't see this being any problem...


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ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

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I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 391
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 12:11:16 AM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

I think with this one they re not really pretending it is in continuity. At least I haven't heard they are.


The trailers and publicity suggested that it was a prequel.Not a reboot.The fact that they reused footage from the opening scene of X1 means that it is supposed to be in the same continuity.The film suffers from the same problems that Superman Returns has,it cant make its mind up whether its a reboot/remake/prequel or amalgam of all three, and the result is a confusing(albeit fun and action packed) film as far as continuity goes.


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Post #: 392
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 12:37:48 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
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Wait, from what I got from watching the film is that it definitely ignored Wolverine and probably also Last Stand but still kept to most of the things featured in the first two X-Men films.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 393
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 7:29:44 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
Thinking about this film it seems that other than Charles and Magneto (even with the patchy performance of Fassbender) the other mutants didn't really get much in the way of characterisation. Banshee and Havok had a couple of lines and were very flat and even the potentially very interesting character of Mystique didn't really do a lot and was rather two dimensional.

< Message edited by sanchia -- 24/6/2011 7:31:09 PM >


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Post #: 394
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 7:40:31 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8044
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

Thinking about this film it seems that other than Charles and Magneto (even with the patchy performance of Fassbender) the other mutants didn't really get much in the way of characterisation. Banshee and Havok had a couple of lines and were very flat and even the potentially very interesting character of Mystique didn't really do a lot and was rather two dimensional.


I agree, Mystique in particular was criminally underused. She was a pivotal character in the first two, even with relatively limited dialogue, whereas in this one she was basically just a mopey teen with self-esteem issues. The only occasions that hinted at being interesting were her interactions with Hank, and even that was so chaste as to be almost boring. And that reminds me **SPOILERS** What the hell was that thing with his formula? You keep your powers but look normal? She's a shapeshifter for Christ's sake, how the hell is that going to work? And given that his powers were basically ape-feet to begin with, how would his work as well? Is he going to dangle upside-down using his perfectly normal feet?

Edited for lazy grammar etc.

< Message edited by superdan -- 24/6/2011 7:59:17 PM >

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Post #: 395
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 8:06:29 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
SPOILER:

And essentially she switches to the dark side because Magneto was willing to give her a tumble when she was blue.

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Post #: 396
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 8:13:49 PM   
darth silas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Wait, from what I got from watching the film is that it definitely ignored Wolverine and probably also Last Stand but still kept to most of the things featured in the first two X-Men films.



Nope.It contradicts X1.Charles says in that film that he and Erik built Cerebro together.First Class shows this was definetly not the case.Also,in X1,Charles didnt know how Magneto was blocking his telepathy,First Class shows that he did know about Shaws(now Magnetos) helmet.

Its also clear in X1 that mutant activity is only just beginning to be widespread knowledge.If the ending of First Class is to be beleived,Magneto starts his war on humanity in the early sixties,theres no way that could have been secret for so many decades as its clear that Magneto seems to start turning to violent means in X1.

I also dont remember Magneto speaking with an irish accent in the initial trilogy

Basically,as a prequel.The film just doesnt work.There are too many continuity problems with the previous films for it to be taken seriously in that regard.




< Message edited by darth silas -- 24/6/2011 8:16:27 PM >


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Post #: 397
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 9:03:25 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

Its also clear in X1 that mutant activity is only just beginning to be widespread knowledge.If the ending of First Class is to be beleived,Magneto starts his war on humanity in the early sixties,theres no way that could have been secret for so many decades as its clear that Magneto seems to start turning to violent means in X1.



The only people who see this are military. It could be covered up.

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Post #: 398
Meh. - 24/6/2011 9:52:39 PM   
trainedasninja


Posts: 206
Joined: 25/5/2011
From: Kidderminster
A wolverine film withot Xmen lacks substance. A Xmen film without wolverine lacks style. This film kinda sits uncomfortably between reboot and prequel unsure which to be and not really a scratch on the all round decentness of the orginal trillogy. I suppose the whole 'seen that before' is kinda the films downfall and all those characters spoil it. They not even that intresting in all fairness. The main players are fine, McAvoy and Fassbender are great and any attempt for a return of Mystique is welcome. However she is humanised to the point when her betrayal in the final act appears frankly unjustified. Instead of focus on these people we are given a weird devil guy, some screaming teenager, teen romance and a blatent display of historical manipulation and anti-communist bias. Overall, its not all that bad, kids would like it i should imagine with plenty of super hero stuff and some good ideas not forgetting a fair enough plot which is nice. Yet theres nothing special here. Meh - 2 stars.

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Post #: 399
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 10:12:42 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

Nope.It contradicts X1.Charles says in that film that he and Erik built Cerebro together.First Class shows this was definetly not the case.Also,in X1,Charles didnt know how Magneto was blocking his telepathy, First Class shows that he did know about Shaws(now Magnetos) helmet.


Those are pretty minor, they could still join together to build (or in this case re-build) Cerebro, and I can imagine Charles not knowing about the helmet in X1 for any reason. I had bigger problems with Hank looking bestial in this

quote:

I also dont remember Magneto speaking with an irish accent in the initial trilogy


Seriously, it wasn't that strong of an accent.


< Message edited by Deviation -- 24/6/2011 10:14:41 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 400
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 10:14:14 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

I also dont remember Magneto speaking with an irish accent in the initial trilogy


Seriously, it wasn't that strong of an accent.




Sadly at times (quite a few times) it was.


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RE: First class - 24/6/2011 10:18:57 PM   
superdan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

I also dont remember Magneto speaking with an irish accent in the initial trilogy


Seriously, it wasn't that strong of an accent.




Sadly at times (quite a few times) it was.



At the end on the beach it stood out so much that I actually snorted with laughter.

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Post #: 402
RE: First class - 24/6/2011 10:21:11 PM   
sanchia


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Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
I was going to say that as the film went on the effort to present anything but an Irish accent seemed to be fading.

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RE: First class - 25/6/2011 1:52:46 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

I also dont remember Magneto speaking with an irish accent in the initial trilogy


Seriously, it wasn't that strong of an accent.




Sadly at times (quite a few times) it was.



At the end on the beach it stood out so much that I actually snorted with laughter.


I genuinely only picked up on the accent once, on the beach. It's hardly the thing I came away from the film thinking about tho, and was hardly the "problem" that some are making it out to be.

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Post #: 404
RE: First class - 25/6/2011 1:56:13 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

Nope.It contradicts X1.Charles says in that film that he and Erik built Cerebro together.First Class shows this was definetly not the case.Also,in X1,Charles didnt know how Magneto was blocking his telepathy, First Class shows that he did know about Shaws(now Magnetos) helmet.


Those are pretty minor, they could still join together to build (or in this case re-build) Cerebro, and I can imagine Charles not knowing about the helmet in X1 for any reason. I had bigger problems with Hank looking bestial in this



Indeed. Cerebro has been rebuilt numerous times in the comics. And again, does it really matter? Does it really diminish your enjoyment of the film that much? Some people will moan about anything. Its hilarious that these complaints are coming from a fan of the Bond franchise too, the home of unspoken cinematic retcon and contradiction!

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Post #: 405
RE: First class - 25/6/2011 9:11:04 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

I also dont remember Magneto speaking with an irish accent in the initial trilogy


Seriously, it wasn't that strong of an accent.




Sadly at times (quite a few times) it was.



At the end on the beach it stood out so much that I actually snorted with laughter.


I genuinely only picked up on the accent once, on the beach. It's hardly the thing I came away from the film thinking about tho, and was hardly the "problem" that some are making it out to be.


I guess it is just one of those things which grate on some people and not on others. To me it was a very noticable issue which reduced his performance in my eyes.

Not that I wasn't entertained by the film.


< Message edited by sanchia -- 25/6/2011 9:12:16 AM >


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RE: First class - 25/6/2011 2:51:21 PM   
Pigeon Army


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quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Wait, from what I got from watching the film is that it definitely ignored Wolverine and probably also Last Stand but still kept to most of the things featured in the first two X-Men films.



Nope.It contradicts X1.Charles says in that film that he and Erik built Cerebro together.First Class shows this was definetly not the case.Also,in X1,Charles didnt know how Magneto was blocking his telepathy,First Class shows that he did know about Shaws(now Magnetos) helmet.

Its also clear in X1 that mutant activity is only just beginning to be widespread knowledge.If the ending of First Class is to be beleived,Magneto starts his war on humanity in the early sixties,theres no way that could have been secret for so many decades as its clear that Magneto seems to start turning to violent means in X1.

I also dont remember Magneto speaking with an irish accent in the initial trilogy

Basically,as a prequel.The film just doesnt work.There are too many continuity problems with the previous films for it to be taken seriously in that regard.





What's this? A series of movies based on comic books, a medium known for its lack of adherence to any traditional sense of continuity, does not have a completely logical and non-contradictory timeline?

Getouttatoooowwwwwn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
Stop being mean to Deviation

No.

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Post #: 407
RE: First class - 25/6/2011 3:08:06 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8044
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
What's this? A series of movies based on comic books, a medium known for its lack of adherence to any traditional sense of continuity, does not have a completely logical and non-contradictory timeline?

Getouttatoooowwwwwn



I've never read the comic books, the films are all I have to go on (plus the X-Men cartoons of the 90's, which were of course all kinds of awesome). We're only 5 films in and already it doesn't make any sense if you watch them as a series. As I've said before, if they wanted it to be considered completely seperate from what's gone before then that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. But casting the same actors as characters they've already portrayed and using the same beginnning as the first film undermine that notion totally in my opinion.

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Post #: 408
RE: First class - 25/6/2011 3:39:27 PM   
ky


Posts: 334
Joined: 16/11/2006
From: The Daily Bugle
quote:

Basically,as a prequel.The film just doesnt work.There are too many continuity problems with the previous films for it to be taken seriously in that regard.


Agree with you, silas. The more I think about this film, the less sense it makes. And not even just in terms of relating to the other films, but also within its own story. I don't even associate it with the comics - this piece of garbage was nowhere near as good as the series deserves.

Also, I'm stunned by people saying they found it fun and enjoyed the action scenes - for me, the effects were totally unconvincing, the direction was poor and cheesy, and Beast looked too ridiculous. If found myself checking the time every few minutes I was so unimpressed - can't remember that happening before, not even with How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days (that was the worst film I'd seen before this).

Terrible film. Just awful.

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RE: First class - 25/6/2011 5:08:24 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
What's this? A series of movies based on comic books, a medium known for its lack of adherence to any traditional sense of continuity, does not have a completely logical and non-contradictory timeline?

Getouttatoooowwwwwn



I've never read the comic books, the films are all I have to go on (plus the X-Men cartoons of the 90's, which were of course all kinds of awesome). We're only 5 films in and already it doesn't make any sense if you watch them as a series. As I've said before, if they wanted it to be considered completely seperate from what's gone before then that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. But casting the same actors as characters they've already portrayed and using the same beginnning as the first film undermine that notion totally in my opinion.


Very true.

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RE: First class - 25/6/2011 5:31:11 PM   
darth silas


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From: My living room
Did anyone else realise how ridiculous it was that Shaw went to so much time and trouble to cause a holocaust with the cuban missile crisis,that it turns out he could have acheived the exact same thing on his own time by using his mutant power to set off a nuclear explosion.He could have done this anywhere,anytime but instead uses Dr.Evil logic to acheive his goal!

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Post #: 411
RE: First class - 25/6/2011 11:14:09 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

Did anyone else realise how ridiculous it was that Shaw went to so much time and trouble to cause a holocaust with the cuban missile crisis,that it turns out he could have acheived the exact same thing on his own time by using his mutant power to set off a nuclear explosion.He could have done this anywhere,anytime but instead uses Dr.Evil logic to acheive his goal!


Yep, but that wouldn't have been much of a film would it? It's like moaning that Goldfinger didn't simply shoot Bond when he had the chance, instead of giving him the opportunity to escape from the laser thing. 99% of cinema requires a suspension of disbelief. Thats how it works.

PS: We get it. You don't like this film. Everything will be okay y'know?

EDIT - Actually, wasn't Shaw's plan to make it look like the Americans and the Russians had attacked each other, in turn causing all out war, and the eventual holocaust that he so desired? He couldn't interfere too much, or else his plan to turn the Russians and Americans against each other wouldn't have worked.


< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 25/6/2011 11:37:09 PM >

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Post #: 412
RE: First class - 25/6/2011 11:17:36 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: ky

Also, I'm stunned by people saying they found it fun and enjoyed the action scenes - for me, the effects were totally unconvincing, the direction was poor and cheesy, and Beast looked too ridiculous. If found myself checking the time every few minutes I was so unimpressed - can't remember that happening before, not even with How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days (that was the worst film I'd seen before this).

Terrible film. Just awful.


If this is the worst film you've EVER seen then, to paraphrase Stanley Kubrick, you're not using it properly.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 25/6/2011 11:18:41 PM >

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Post #: 413
RE: First class - 25/6/2011 11:27:18 PM   
nvh1982


Posts: 359
Joined: 10/5/2011
From: the castle beyond the goblin city
erm,well I liked it (ducks),yes so Fassbenders accent was noticeable in a few places but its not the worst attempt at an accent in film histoy and didn't take anything away from the film, Mystique was a bit whiny so I'm glad she wasn't in it as much as she could have been. She has always had my fave superpower though!.

I have to also say as well McAvoy usuallly annoys me in films but thought he was good in this,

I am glad I saw it before I read anything on here because all other reviews of it I heard were really good, but then I just think its fun escapism and also I loved the cartoon when I was little

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RE: First class - 26/6/2011 6:55:15 PM   
KeithM


Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008
X-Men First Class is actually very good, albeit with plenty of little issues a fanboy/movie buff could nitpick over - continuity issues as a prequel, odd character decisions, a complete disregard for the source material and whatnot, but, most importantly, it's exciting, fun and downright entertaining.

That's right. I said it. I liked a Fox Marvel movie. I hate myself. A big part of me is still complaining about how I'd love to see THE X-Men First Class - the real deal, not this 'alternate' vision which, as good as it might be, misses the important dynamics between the original characters and screws up any chance of us seeing anything like the REAL X-Men in live-action in my lifetime. Probably. *sigh* But I digress...

Whatsisface from Shameless is good as Professor X, but Fassbender totally owns the movie as James Bond Erik/Magneto (and we'll pretend not to notice the totally incongruous and out-of-nowhere reversion to his full-on Irish brogue in the last third...). It almost borders on Austin Powers territory occasionally, but thankfully never actually goes there and balances the setting and tone actually rather well. Not perfect but very entertaining and definitely a massive improvement over X3 and Wolverine Borigins, putting the X-franchise right back on track*. 8/10

*Which as I mention means it probably won't revert to Marvel EVER and we'll never see the actual, proper X-Men done properly, in their proper place, in the MU, as they should be. Downside. :(

< Message edited by KeithM -- 26/6/2011 6:56:53 PM >

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Post #: 415
RE: First class - 26/6/2011 8:53:25 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
I hope you are flagellating yourself as you typed that.

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Post #: 416
RE: First class - 26/6/2011 11:53:11 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

X-Men First Class is actually very good, albeit with plenty of little issues a fanboy/movie buff could nitpick over - continuity issues as a prequel, odd character decisions, a complete disregard for the source material and whatnot, but, most importantly, it's exciting, fun and downright entertaining.

That's right. I said it. I liked a Fox Marvel movie. I hate myself. A big part of me is still complaining about how I'd love to see THE X-Men First Class - the real deal, not this 'alternate' vision which, as good as it might be, misses the important dynamics between the original characters and screws up any chance of us seeing anything like the REAL X-Men in live-action in my lifetime. Probably. *sigh* But I digress...

Whatsisface from Shameless is good as Professor X, but Fassbender totally owns the movie as James Bond Erik/Magneto (and we'll pretend not to notice the totally incongruous and out-of-nowhere reversion to his full-on Irish brogue in the last third...). It almost borders on Austin Powers territory occasionally, but thankfully never actually goes there and balances the setting and tone actually rather well. Not perfect but very entertaining and definitely a massive improvement over X3 and Wolverine Borigins, putting the X-franchise right back on track*. 8/10

*Which as I mention means it probably won't revert to Marvel EVER and we'll never see the actual, proper X-Men done properly, in their proper place, in the MU, as they should be. Downside. :(


What or who are ''The REAL X-Men'' pray tell? You mean the ones that were in the comic back in the sixties? This is the MOVIE X-men universe my friend.its supposed to be a prequel,oh sorry,its a soft reboot,oh wait that doesnt work either,how about reimagining?,no that cant be right,is it a remake?Oh hell i give up,id advise you to ask the filmakers but i dont think they know either.


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Post #: 417
RE: First class - 28/6/2011 2:06:51 AM   
KeithM


Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

I hope you are flagellating yourself as you typed that.


Would you like the photos?

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Post #: 418
RE: First class - 28/6/2011 2:35:13 AM   
KeithM


Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas
What or who are ''The REAL X-Men'' pray tell?


The 'REAL; X-Men First Class was Scott, Jean, Hank, Bobby and Warren.

I know what this is, and I liked it for what it was. That doesn't stop me wishing for the characters from the original first class, precisely because they WERE the original First Class.


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Post #: 419
RE: X-Men: First Class - 28/6/2011 10:01:51 AM   
sagarcha


Posts: 15
Joined: 2/5/2010
Just a little nitpick that made me laugh: when Fassbender goes to Argentina to find the nazis, they are hiding, as the banker said, in Villa Gesell. The thing is, Villa Gesell is a well known beach resort, with no mountains whatsoever!!!

They were probably thinking of Bariloche, who looks just like the place in the movie, AND has a history of sheltering nazi criminals... a few years ago they found Erich Priebke, Hauptsturmführer of the SS, who was living there since 1949.

My question is... they couldn´t be bothered to look it up in wikipedia? Or maybe they just thought Villa Gesell sounded *far* better?
And don't even get me started about the mexican accent of the bartender in that scene! "QUIETO CABRÓN!" indeed.

Look for yourselves:

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/2475/villagesell.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2620/85805336.jpg

< Message edited by sagarcha -- 28/6/2011 10:10:19 AM >


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