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"Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made These Days?

 
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"Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made Thes... - 22/2/2006 11:37:33 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14587
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
The Great Escape, The Dirty Dozen, Where Eagles Dare, Kelly's Heros....they all make war look easy. Tool up with enough weapons to level Berlin and kill as many Nazis as you can!

However these days with all the Saving Private Ryans and Thin Red Lines where we seen the brutal side of war and repeatedly told that "war is hell", is it possible to have a "fun" war film?

Would it seem disrespectful to the veterans? Would it seem to miss the point? Would it seem like glamorised "war porn"?

The last time i thought that there was the chance of a Boy's Own War Film, it was Windtalkers but that just turned out to be a dissappointment.
If rumours are to be believed however, Tarantino's Inglorious Bastards may be the answer - if he gets his dream cast of Arnie, Willis, Stallone, Eddie Murphy, Michael Madsen and...um...Adam Sandler, could we seen these actors of yore taking on the Third Reich with little care for historical accuracy, Dale Dye's boot camps and that bullet wounds actually hurt?

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"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh
Post #: 1
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 11:45:43 AM   
UTB


Posts: 9771
Joined: 30/9/2005
It is possible to make 'fun' (in the loosest sense) war films, but they still need to have the devastating impact that war brings to stop them from just being  piss-takes.

Three Kings was a good example. It had some real funny and cynical aspects, but at the same time carried some hard hittinf messages.

In today's society though, you cant make a 'fun war film, because with so many countries going to war despite the objection of their country's population (and cinemagoers), these films would be deemed inappopriate and offensive.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 2
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 11:58:55 AM   
delrusso666


Posts: 519
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: barcelona
for the perfect source material of a modern take on the "boys own" war story grab a copy of "the rifle brigade" by garth ennis and carlos esquerra.
available from all good comic shops.
funniest thing i have read in many years.
as a taster when the rifle brigade parachute into the middle of a berlin firestorm all the nazis are in shelters.when the comander is asked where they all are he replies
"i imagine fritz is off with some frauline in a cellar doing something beastly without the aid of butter"
hahahah,,

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 1:22:29 PM   
Peter A. Quinn


Posts: 7320
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Deep, deep, DEEP undercover!
Take away the mawkish, manipulative book-ends of Saving Private Ryan, and a "Boys Own" adventure is exactly what it was.Gory and melodramatic in equal parts- what more could a boy want?

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 2:22:07 PM   
Alvin Stardust


Posts: 349
Joined: 14/11/2005
From: West Midlands
How about a 'Boy's Own' war film where us Brits aren't portrayed as helping the Americans win and being eternally grateful to them?

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 4:22:26 PM   
doctorolorinbats1975


Posts: 6787
Joined: 30/10/2005
From: Harrow
I'm not sure whether we can do them in the age of political correctness. Certainly a controversy would make me feel uncomfortable.

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 4:43:18 PM   
Shawlord


Posts: 546
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The Sands, Las Vegas 1950's
I think they can be made and I think they will be made, however whether there is deemed to be an audience for them is an entirely different matter.

I would like to see something with a relatively low budget that doesn't take itself too seriously.  Perhaps something about the fun comradery and action involved than about the horrors which we are all too aware of.

Like I said though, I just don't think there would be a huge audience for it.

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 6:10:23 PM   
calum

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/10/2005
Perhaps a film like "Kelly's Heroes" would be the type of war film to be made, as it was basically a heist film which happened to be set during the Second World War. "Where Eagles Dare" and "The Dirty Dozen" are also some of my favourite war movies and I would enjoy seeing similar types of films again.

(in reply to Shawlord)
Post #: 8
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 7:52:24 PM   
rich


Posts: 4949
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
Where Eagles Dare is class! I don't think it's possible for a return to such films.

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Post #: 9
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 10:31:37 PM   
Indiana Jones


Posts: 155
Joined: 30/9/2005
Independance Day?

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 22/2/2006 11:30:13 PM   
delrusso666


Posts: 519
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: barcelona
indiana jones,, errr, NO,, totally different sort of thing,, would never had appeared in "battle" or "valiant"

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ive wrestled with reality for 35 years doctor, and i m happy to state i finaly won out over it.

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Post #: 11
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 20/3/2006 8:13:55 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14587
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawlord

I think they can be made and I think they will be made, however whether there is deemed to be an audience for them is an entirely different matter.

I would like to see something with a relatively low budget that doesn't take itself too seriously.  Perhaps something about the fun comradery and action involved than about the horrors which we are all too aware of.

Like I said though, I just don't think there would be a huge audience for it.


I know what you mean. The nearest thing we've had is Jarhead and/or Three Kings but they have a more cynical/politicised look at war rather than making it look fun and blasting bad guys away as if it was the easiest thing in the world.

Post Traumatic Stress Syndrom? Bah! It's for girls..........

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Shawlord)
Post #: 12
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 20/3/2006 8:27:19 PM   
Naweed_1


Posts: 1433
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Birmingham
Of course Tarantino is doing one with Micheal Madsen, Inglorious Bastards cant wait.

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Now, about this pickle we find ourselves in...

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Post #: 13
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 1:19:12 AM   
bluegiant


Posts: 159
Joined: 4/10/2005
It's odd! You can show random acts of violence in a crime caper film (Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang! Pulp Fiction.) and it's okay. But to show it in a war film, it has to have a message that 'War is Hell.' and suddenly you're knee deep in angst!

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 11:30:28 AM   
Revenant


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/2/2006
Arent they supposed to be remaking the Dirty Dozen? 

(in reply to bluegiant)
Post #: 15
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 11:46:46 AM   
Shawlord


Posts: 546
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The Sands, Las Vegas 1950's
To answer one of your original questions Timon, I think many would deem it disrespectful to have a "fun" war film, a good old tally ho number like they used to make.  Which I think is a shame but I am sure these objectors have always been there and I don't think it would stop such films being made. 

I just think that we are all too well aware of the horrors of war, we read about it in the newspapers and see it on the news on an almost daily basis, it is absolutely horrific and we can't even begin to imagine what it is like to be in that kind of physical and emotional position, so why do film makers insit on putting more of the same up on the big screen?  What is wrong with focusing on the comradery, or the mechanics behind war?

A few of us were talking about The Dambusters in the Golden Oldies forum and we agreed that this would be a great film to re-make.  So long as they kept it British and true to the actual story!   It does involve men risking their lives but the film focuses on the actual invention of the bouncing bomb.  It is historically significant, full of action and although many of the air crew lost their lives they don't dwell on this because they don't need to.  We can fill in those gaps for oursleves.  And I wouldn't count it as being disrespectful for a moment.

It will be very interesting to see what Tarantino's Inglorious Bastards is like, but I fear with his penchant for violence it may be a little too far in the other extreme.

< Message edited by Shawlord -- 21/3/2006 11:50:25 AM >


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The World is a fine place, and worth fighting for... I agree with the second part.

100 Golden Oldies Recommended by you!

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 1:41:12 PM   
IanIRL

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 15/3/2006
From: London
The tone of it would have to be razor accurate.  I don't think you could do Kelly Heroes anymore for example - I think a bunch of wiseass military types in it for profit (no matter how entertaining) would just seem desperately wrong and awkward.  I think Three Kings, as has been mentioned above is the best example we have got - its realistic about the horrors and absurdities of war, is exciting and still manages to have a believably nice ending (at least while I was watching it, I was willing to suspend disbelief).

I just finished reading Armageddon, which is Max Hastings examination of the final year of WW2 and the Battle of Germany.  Its harrowing stuff, and while there are lots of stories of heroism and friendship amongst the soldiers and civilians (both Allied, Soviet and German) its difficult not to remember the millions who were killed or starved to death and the utter barbarity of the Germans and Soviets. 

I think the reason that the war films of the 50s and 60s treat the WW2 with such abandon as backdrops for what are basically heist films is that it was still seen as the glorious conflict (rightly so, for the most part).  But in the last few decades, as more and more stories have dripped out about the horrors of the Eastern front, concentration camps etc, it makes it more difficult to see the conflict in such a rosey glow.  None of the other conflicts since have really offered such an easy target for villainy either - could you imagine a film with a light tone set during the Korean, Vietnam, Falklands (hah!), Balkan or Iraqi wars?

Also I think the spectre of John Wayne's horribly racist and mis-guided The Green Berets looms large as a rebuke to anyone who wants to simplify war anymore.

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 1:51:54 PM   
Shawlord


Posts: 546
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The Sands, Las Vegas 1950's
quote:

ORIGINAL: IanIRL

I think the reason that the war films of the 50s and 60s treat the WW2 with such abandon as backdrops for what are basically heist films is that it was still seen as the glorious conflict (rightly so, for the most part).  But in the last few decades, as more and more stories have dripped out about the horrors of the Eastern front, concentration camps etc, it makes it more difficult to see the conflict in such a rosey glow.  None of the other conflicts since have really offered such an easy target for villainy either - could you imagine a film with a light tone set during the Korean, Vietnam, Falklands (hah!), Balkan or Iraqi wars?


That is exactly it.  Essentially "boy's own films" are a thing of the past and even attempts at anything similar nowadays would no doubt still hold the atrocities of war as the forefront of the story.  I think the closest they could come to replicating these films of the past would be, as my example above, to make films like the Dambusters where the focal point of the story is the engineering of a new technology in the fight against the opposing side rather than the actual battle itself.

_____________________________

The World is a fine place, and worth fighting for... I agree with the second part.

100 Golden Oldies Recommended by you!

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 2:11:49 PM   
Jessica_ca_ca_ca


Posts: 29896
Joined: 4/1/2006
Movies that are politically correct in general do not sell particularly well. You might as well call them documentaries for all the audience truly cares. The old classics such as The Dirty Dozen and Kelly's Heroes were filled to the brim with comradery and action that kept you on your toes, however if anybody does a war film these days they have the potential to be sued or to simply be criticised.

The movies thus far such as Windtalkers, We Were Soldiers, Behind Enemy Lines, Black Hawk Down, Enemy at the Gates, Pearl Harbour (ok, maybe not) - they seem to just lay low.

I'd be interested to see what Tarantino's movie is like. Although he does often have the tendency to just bomb the screen with violence and swearing and thereafter concludes the plot. So, here's hoping

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 2:24:26 PM   
cjmcc5150


Posts: 554
Joined: 30/9/2005
Do we actually have actors with the class and gravitas to carry off films like the classics mentioned in this thread?

Steve McQueen (The Great Escape), Richard Burton (Where Eagles Dare), Lee Marvin (The Dirty Dozen), John Cassavetes(The Dirty Dozen), Clint Eastwood (Where Eagles Dare / Kellys Heroes), Gregory Peck (The Guns of Navarone), Charles Bronson (The Great Escape / The Dirty Dozen) .....

.....we could go on here but I think you get my point. 

Ofcourse we have actors today who are at the top of their game but there will be few of them who could so easily be mentioned in the same sentence as those above!

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 2:56:30 PM   
Jessica_ca_ca_ca


Posts: 29896
Joined: 4/1/2006
That's true, you know. The war movies brought out within the last five years or so have included actors with definitely less merit than those in the classic war movies. For instance, who could ever compare Ben Affleck to Steve McQueen?

I think they thought they were going somewhere with the likes of Mel Gibson or Nicholas Cage, even Jude Law. But they certainly cannot pull the weight of a large war movie like previous actors before them have. They just don't make men like they used to, I suppose.

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 21/3/2006 5:05:00 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14587
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjmcc5150

Do we actually have actors with the class and gravitas to carry off films like the classics mentioned in this thread?

Steve McQueen (The Great Escape), Richard Burton (Where Eagles Dare), Lee Marvin (The Dirty Dozen), John Cassavetes(The Dirty Dozen), Clint Eastwood (Where Eagles Dare / Kellys Heroes), Gregory Peck (The Guns of Navarone), Charles Bronson (The Great Escape / The Dirty Dozen) .....

.....we could go on here but I think you get my point. 

Ofcourse we have actors today who are at the top of their game but there will be few of them who could so easily be mentioned in the same sentence as those above!


I agree. The only actors i can think of are men who were at the top of their games in the 80's. Eg. Dennis Quaid and Kurt Russell.

Reading the comments about how the horrors of WWII have been made more real in recent years is a good point and i probably think that the only way a Boy's Own film would work is if it in a fictional war/conflict...sort of like the upcoming post-apocalyptic war film Liberty (Here's the thread in Future Films)

I guess in this PC culture, it's hard to have a 'fun war film' without offending someone. I guess that's why Starship Troopers is the closest thing to one...can't exactly offend insects can you?

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 27/4/2006 5:30:48 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14587
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
A film version of DC comic's Sgt Rock is moving into pre production = Future Films Thread.

Could this beat Inglorious Bastards to possibly resurrecting the genre?

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 23
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 27/4/2006 5:33:38 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14587
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvin Stardust

How about a 'Boy's Own' war film where us Brits aren't portrayed as helping the Americans win and being eternally grateful to them?


You obviously haven't seen Where Eagles Dare. The 'Americans' are aiding us in our brilliantly planned shinanigans....

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Alvin Stardust)
Post #: 24
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 25/9/2006 12:36:46 PM   
danbo1138


Posts: 7861
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Always Outnumberd Never Outgunned!
fuck em all,make some more and let god sort em out

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Post #: 25
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 25/9/2006 7:58:43 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14587
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
God? I'm more worried about The Daily Mail....joyless wretches....

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to danbo1138)
Post #: 26
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 25/9/2006 8:28:17 PM   
Cuchulainn


Posts: 5755
Joined: 18/2/2006
From: Hell
You're right,Timon.There are far too many cynics and humourless sourpusses around these days.I'd love to see more films like those mentioned above.Hell,I'd settle for a remake of The Devil's Brigade if anyone had the cojones to throw a few quid at it...
And love the idea of 80's hardasses Russell and Quaid as the leads...Actually,Kurt Russell would be ace as Sgt.Rock...


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RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 25/9/2006 10:04:15 PM   
Biggus


Posts: 7638
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Not Local
The Two Towers, despite the setting, is reminiscent of one of these types of film. I'm referring mainly to the Aragron/Legolas/Gimli storyline obviously.

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Post #: 28
RE: "Boy's Own" War Films - Can They Be Made ... - 26/9/2006 3:53:01 PM   
doctorolorinbats1975


Posts: 6787
Joined: 30/10/2005
From: Harrow
quote:

ORIGINAL: Biggus

The Two Towers, despite the setting, is reminiscent of one of these types of film. I'm referring mainly to the Aragron/Legolas/Gimli storyline obviously.


Isn't PJ producing The Dambusters?

I think people don't really want to have the current climate sanitised: but after the War on Terror (whenever that'll be) I think we'll be seeing a renaissance.

_____________________________

CG, stop motion, acting, animation, animatronics, whatever, it's 24 lies a second...

Critiquing words for dummies: Pretentious, overrated, sentimental, indulgent, populist.

(in reply to Biggus)
Post #: 29
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