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Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 3:34:32 PM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7852
Joined: 3/10/2005
Blimey.... anyone watching Sky News?.... It's kicking off big time!
Post #: 1
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 3:38:51 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
I refuse to accept this is happening.

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Post #: 2
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 3:59:38 PM   
Sinatra


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Errr, ok,,,,, thanks for that mate...  why don't you go and have a nice lie down ehh... take your colostomy bag off for a while too.

(in reply to Felix)
Post #: 3
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 4:09:41 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5064
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
Kay Burley's just said 'someone better get down there and explain peaceful protest to them'. 

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Post #: 4
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 4:13:11 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Errr, ok,,,,, thanks for that mate...  why don't you go and have a nice lie down ehh... take your colostomy bag off for a while too.





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Post #: 5
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 4:43:39 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Errr, ok,,,,, thanks for that mate...  why don't you go and have a nice lie down ehh... take your colostomy bag off for a while too.






Don't worry old chap. I got the joke.

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Post #: 6
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 4:45:03 PM   
tarantinofan

 

Posts: 1194
Joined: 1/10/2005
It seems it is time for Obama to put his money where his mouth is. Does he abandon a long standing U.S. ally or does he offer support for the Egyptian people?

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Post #: 7
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 5:25:31 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Errr, ok,,,,, thanks for that mate...  why don't you go and have a nice lie down ehh... take your colostomy bag off for a while too.






Don't worry old chap. I got the joke.


Heh, took me a while but I got there in the end

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Post #: 8
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 5:29:03 PM   
kathryn2

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: 24/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Errr, ok,,,,, thanks for that mate...  why don't you go and have a nice lie down ehh... take your colostomy bag off for a while too.






Don't worry old chap. I got the joke.


Heh, took me a while but I got there in the end


This has gone completely over my head. Anyone care to explain?

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 9
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 5:31:17 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kathryn2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Errr, ok,,,,, thanks for that mate...  why don't you go and have a nice lie down ehh... take your colostomy bag off for a while too.






Don't worry old chap. I got the joke.


Heh, took me a while but I got there in the end


This has gone completely over my head. Anyone care to explain?



If you refuse to accept something what state are you in?

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

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Post #: 10
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 6:20:23 PM   
kathryn2

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: 24/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kathryn2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Errr, ok,,,,, thanks for that mate...  why don't you go and have a nice lie down ehh... take your colostomy bag off for a while too.






Don't worry old chap. I got the joke.


Heh, took me a while but I got there in the end


This has gone completely over my head. Anyone care to explain?



If you refuse to accept something what state are you in?


De-Nile! D'oh!

And to think that I was in Egypt, on the Nile, just a couple of weeks ago.....

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 11
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 7:11:50 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
quote:

ORIGINAL: kathryn2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kathryn2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Errr, ok,,,,, thanks for that mate...  why don't you go and have a nice lie down ehh... take your colostomy bag off for a while too.






Don't worry old chap. I got the joke.


Heh, took me a while but I got there in the end


This has gone completely over my head. Anyone care to explain?



If you refuse to accept something what state are you in?


De-Nile! D'oh!


And to think that I was in Egypt, on the Nile, just a couple of weeks ago.....


Ahhhh! I finally got it!


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And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 12
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 7:37:59 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
The footage shown by Al Jazeera is really shocking. It's not holding back from showing the actual beatings or a person being run over by a van.

Student protests? Nothing but a light breeze compared to this.


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ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
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Post #: 13
RE: Egypt Protests - 28/1/2011 10:24:00 PM   
JessFranco


Posts: 2523
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
US element is fascinating here. As mentioned, do they back Mubarak or do they support the protests not knowing what comes next?

Also interesting in terms of the Egyptian police potentially having to put down a revolution with guns paid for by America, and their longstanding reluctance to do that.

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Post #: 14
RE: Egypt Protests - 29/1/2011 3:35:34 PM   
KnightofZyryab


Posts: 5840
Joined: 26/12/2005
Derisive snort at Sky News comparing a bunch of students in Manchester on the rampage to the revolution in Egypt.

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Post #: 15
RE: Egypt Protests - 29/1/2011 7:05:38 PM   
tarantinofan

 

Posts: 1194
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

US element is fascinating here. As mentioned, do they back Mubarak or do they support the protests not knowing what comes next?

Also interesting in terms of the Egyptian police potentially having to put down a revolution with guns paid for by America, and their longstanding reluctance to do that.


Yep, hence Hillary Clintons plea to the Egyptian security forces not to use excessive, violent force. It is weird how this whole situation is an open secret. It's like the elephant in the room.

(in reply to JessFranco)
Post #: 16
RE: Egypt Protests - 31/1/2011 1:44:51 PM   
oddzag


Posts: 958
Joined: 16/11/2005
From: The Land Where The Cuckoo's Nest
Is this some kind of North African Dictator Domino Toppling Week that we all forgot was happening?

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Post #: 17
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 2:40:05 AM   
JoeyPottr


Posts: 2066
Joined: 10/2/2009
I wouldn't hold your breath for the US to anything about this, Washington has become known as the "keystone cops", and Obama, well I wouldn't hold your breath for him to do anything either. It's too bad that all this is happening, it's turning out like a Tianneman Square almost.

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Post #: 18
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 8:25:37 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18184
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
That is a tad unfair to say the least. The current situation is that the US administrations could support the revolution (or whatever it is at the moment) which is calling for many things which the US is supposed to support such as democracy. The downside is if it fails they lose a much needed ally in the area and if it succeeds there is a possibility that the new management may have extremist elements or not be supportive of US actions. There is also the dact that previous administrations and to a degree this one have been propping up the present management with significant military grants. It is pretty much a damned if you do damned if you don#t situation if they take sides.

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Post #: 19
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 4:23:57 PM   
Hobbitonlass

 

Posts: 11919
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Westeros


Fox news need to go back to school........

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Post #: 20
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 4:29:09 PM   
Chief


Posts: 7778
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee
Nope, they just don't talk about Iraq now.

(in reply to Sinatra)
Post #: 21
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 7:10:18 PM   
Woger


Posts: 3815
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr

I wouldn't hold your breath for the US to anything about this, Washington has become known as the "keystone cops", and Obama, well I wouldn't hold your breath for him to do anything either. It's too bad that all this is happening, it's turning out like a Tianneman Square almost.


Oh yeah, the US turned into pussies now democrats are in power. What do you expect him to do? it's a rising a gainst a dictator/US ally, no matter who is in power in the US it's a fine line to thread.

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Post #: 22
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 7:18:05 PM   
JessFranco


Posts: 2523
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/01/egypt-tunisia-revolt

Good comment piece by Slavoj Zizek in The Guardian.


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Post #: 23
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 7:19:34 PM   
JessFranco


Posts: 2523
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
Mubarak is supposedly going to announce he's not seeking re-election, within the next hour. Not going to be good enough.

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Post #: 24
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 9:39:11 PM   
Chief Wiggum


Posts: 1919
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/01/egypt-tunisia-revolt

Good comment piece by Slavoj Zizek in The Guardian.




really? I thought it was utterly wrong, for starters his main conclusion is vastly flawed - The rise of Islamic fundamentalism occurs with the removal of the secular left - is completely wrong. Afghanistan's rise in Islamic fundementalists tied in with a secular left regime being in power. Syria had IF back in 82 and their regime is Left wing and secular, the only reason they don't have them now is because they tried the same shit as they did in Egypt and the regime crushed them. Nasser's regime was also avowedly secular and left wing, claiming support from the Soviets and they too had massive amounts of Islamic Fundementalism, in fact some of the most dangerous Islamist political discourse came out of Egypt during Nasser's regime.

Secondly, his call for the Radical left to get involved to save the region, is also not a new call and it still isn't a great idea, Soviet advisors (i.e. good old Communists, the radical left epitomised) offered assistance to Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Libya they didn't turn out as flourishing democracies. And let us not forget the involvement of the Iranian Communists and left in general in bringing in the Theocracy where priests get to decide who can or cannot stand for election, how would this benefit the move toward democracy across the Middle East?





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RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 10:10:24 PM   
JessFranco


Posts: 2523
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
I wouldn't agree with Zizek 100% but i think he's pretty perceptive in highlighting secular Socialism as a release valve for antagonisms that might otherwise play out as radical religionism and the danger that, should the Egyptian revolution succeed, but only in widening the privileged inner circle to encompass more of the middle class, you're going to see a lot of people lining up to join the MB. The protests are about democracy but not simply in the abstract - it's democracy as an agent of economic change. If that economic change simply means that Mubarak's clique's billions are spread a little more widely, it's not going to be enough. The radical left can't be cut out of the conversation. 

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Post #: 26
RE: Egypt Protests - 1/2/2011 10:17:56 PM   
JessFranco


Posts: 2523
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

Secondly, his call for the Radical left to get involved to save the region, is also not a new call and it still isn't a great idea, Soviet advisors (i.e. good old Communists, the radical left epitomised) offered assistance to Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Libya they didn't turn out as flourishing democracies. And let us not forget the involvement of the Iranian Communists and left in general in bringing in the Theocracy where priests get to decide who can or cannot stand for election, how would this benefit the move toward democracy across the Middle East?


Most Iranian left-wingers would argue that the revolution was betrayed by the fundamentalists, who happened to be better organised and more able to consolidate power. Thousands of socialists were jailed or shot and the main left-wing party, the NDF, was outlawed shortly after Khomenei came in. I also think there's a massive gulf between today's Egpytian socialists / trade unionists looking to turn Egypt into a social democracy and the political power-plays of the old Soviet Union. They're not comparable.


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Post #: 27
RE: Egypt Protests - 2/2/2011 11:58:38 AM   
JessFranco


Posts: 2523
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0GfLh4SGU&feature=player_embedded

Glenn Beck's mental ravings on the unrest in the Middle East set to the music of GYBE! Brilliantly done.

< Message edited by JessFranco -- 2/2/2011 12:00:37 PM >


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Post #: 28
RE: Egypt Protests - 2/2/2011 12:59:29 PM   
KnightofZyryab


Posts: 5840
Joined: 26/12/2005
A bunch of pro-Mubarak supporters have now converged on the overwhelming mass of anti-Mubarak supporters. Wonder if they've been recruited by the regime to incite violence and sanction a condemnation of the revolution, also putting the army in a difficult position.

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Post #: 29
RE: Egypt Protests - 2/2/2011 1:30:25 PM   
Chief Wiggum


Posts: 1919
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

I wouldn't agree with Zizek 100% but i think he's pretty perceptive in highlighting secular Socialism as a release valve for antagonisms that might otherwise play out as radical religionism and the danger that, should the Egyptian revolution succeed, but only in widening the privileged inner circle to encompass more of the middle class, you're going to see a lot of people lining up to join the MB. The protests are about democracy but not simply in the abstract - it's democracy as an agent of economic change. If that economic change simply means that Mubarak's clique's billions are spread a little more widely, it's not going to be enough. The radical left can't be cut out of the conversation. 


true it is primarily about economic change, but with Egypt already having a large part of its economy nationalised before, I really don't think that the young want to go back to a situation with planned economies. The protests are, apart from the removal of Mubarak, calling for the growth of opportunity in Egypt. this is not achieved through left wing economic policies. To kick start the economy they will want to increase the amount of foreign investment and capital coming into the country, which would require a decent tax regime to make pumping money into Egypt a viable investment plan. let us not forget that the majority of the protestors are well educated unemployed, rather than the poor rural, or the working class labourers that radicalists typically try to influence.

The reason that Islamism and Secular Left politics go together is because the economic policies of the Left are fairly close to those of Islamism. urgo, you promote one, you promote the other


quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

quote:

Secondly, his call for the Radical left to get involved to save the region, is also not a new call and it still isn't a great idea, Soviet advisors (i.e. good old Communists, the radical left epitomised) offered assistance to Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Libya they didn't turn out as flourishing democracies. And let us not forget the involvement of the Iranian Communists and left in general in bringing in the Theocracy where priests get to decide who can or cannot stand for election, how would this benefit the move toward democracy across the Middle East?


Most Iranian left-wingers would argue that the revolution was betrayed by the fundamentalists, who happened to be better organised and more able to consolidate power. Thousands of socialists were jailed or shot and the main left-wing party, the NDF, was outlawed shortly after Khomenei came in. I also think there's a massive gulf between today's Egpytian socialists / trade unionists looking to turn Egypt into a social democracy and the political power-plays of the old Soviet Union. They're not comparable.





Yes, the Protests are primarily about economic change, many of the protestors are educated graduates that are decrying the lack of opportunity in such a tightly controlled economy. This is not the cries of a mass movement of trade unionists arguing for the redistribution of wealth and nationalisation of all industry, it's the shout of an unemployed youth movement trying to get their foot on the ground and economic growth in Egypt started. This cannot be achieved with nationalised industry and the planned economy of the radical left, not the moderate left the RADICAL left which is who the author of the peice suggested would be a good movement to get involved.

In terms of the Iranian Revolution, most of the reading I have done into the subject suggests that the Left knew full well that they were joining a pro-Khomeni movement and that Khomeni's regime would be Islamist in nature. They still supported the movement under the idea that anybody was better than the Shah, and got it massively wrong.

You do have a point when it comes to the Soviet union's powerplays not being comparable, so how about, these secular left bringing forth Islamism

Nasser with the nationalisation of Industry (Left wing) giving rise to the Muslim Brotherhood's radicalisation with Al-banna
Syria - Baathist are secular and socialist (economically) - however here too had the Muslim Brotherhood radicalised to the point of trying to assasinate Hafez al-assad.
Semi-autonimous region of Kurdistan - there is a strong tradition of secular leftism with these guys, yet this was the one place in pre-2003 Iraq where Ansar-ul-islam operated from, plus you also have the PKK

the rest of the examples that I can think of tend to involve the Soviets in one way shape or form.

Islamism isn't a reaction to the right, it is normally a reaction to the enforced secularity by a regime on a population that doesn't want it. Look at Turkey, again a place with an extremely strong secular tradition, did this stop an islamist party being elected? did it fuck

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