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RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

 
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RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 4:42:27 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
I'd like to know as well. Is it similar to Fallout 3/New Vegas - my only previous experience with RPG

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Post #: 121
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 4:42:58 PM   
Scott_

 

Posts: 3883
Joined: 26/6/2008
From: Leeds

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

So, as an RPG virgin but as someone that can commit time to a game and does love a bit of immersion, but is wary of RPG complexities, do we think Skyrim is a good place to start?


Skyrim might be the perfect way to start, just play however you want and those abilities will level up all you have to do is pick a perk when the game tells you. If you want to get better with blunt weapons start hitting people around the head with a hammer and the skill will increase, theres no putting points into anything.

Oblivion was my first RPG and I did find the whole class system confusing at first but I quickly got the hang of it all, Skyrim sounds much easier to get to grips with.

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Post #: 122
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 4:43:34 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

I have a question....

I've never really played full on RPG's. I was very tempted to get Fallout 3, everythign I saw of it made it look like a really nice immersive game. However, I was put off by the thought of all the upgrading and talk of XP and assigning skills and stuff. It sounds to me like an almost impenetrable part of gaming language, that really put me off.

I've seen some vids of Skyrim, I've read the reviews and it does look mighty impressive. I'm not a big sword and swocery fan, but having really enjoyed Game of Thrones again recently, I was thinking, is this maybe the game to break my RPG virginity? I love games with really immersive atmospheres, that reward for spending hours at a time playing, even if it's not necessarily playing the main story. For example, in Red Dead I spent hours wandering around killing animals, playing poker, randomly taking in scenery and just generally doing my own thing whilst sinking into this Wild West world. Skyrim kinda looks like it could do that for me, that I could just float around the world becoming some bad ass warrior dude and occasionally tackling a few story missions.

My main fear though, is that it will have all the trappings of RPG's that really scare me away. The endless tweaking of skills, with combat being a turn based hit, block, get hit, block, hit on and on. I'm worried that I wouldn't just be in control of my character in my preferred 3rd person taking it all in and doing what I want to do.

So, as an RPG virgin but as someone that can commit time to a game and does love a bit of immersion, but is wary of RPG complexities, do we think Skyrim is a good place to start?


I haven't played Skyrim but if as DK says it's better than Oblivion then hell yes. I was pretty much the same. I hated fantasy and the idea of an RPG in that setting didn't really excite me. However, I bought Oblivion on a whim and loved every bloody minute of it. It's one of the most immersive experiences I've ever had in gaming. Bizarrely because I enjoyed it so much it actually got me into Game of Thrones.

Also DK; Thanks for your thoughts so far. I'd actually totally forgotten about the persuasion mini-game!


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Post #: 123
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 4:50:40 PM   
porntrooper

 

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But what about the combat? Dammit I must know... is it some turn based malarky, or is there the skill involved in a fight where I can roll around out of the way of an enemy before putting a fucking sword through his head?! GRAAAAAAAAAR

I can see there will be a toss up between trading Arkham City in for Skyrim, Assasins Creed or Battlefield. Bollocks.

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Post #: 124
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 4:53:39 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005
It's not turn based it's all real time and although it wasn't the strongest of aspects of Oblivion I never had a big issue with it. It's not a million miles away from Dark Souls but probably isn't as robust. I'm obviously referring to Oblivion and not Skyrim.

One of the great moments for me in Oblivion was finding a cave full of vampires and just ripping through them with a f*ck-off great sword. Happy days!

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Post #: 125
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 4:55:57 PM   
Dark Knight


Posts: 1751
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Sedgley
quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM

I'm interested in this game, but I have concerns about the combat system.  So I'm curious, a question for Dark Knight: how does the combat and magic system work compared with Dark Souls?  Same sort of deal or what?

EDIT: edited for poor grammer and spelling



Hard to answer to be honest. They are both alike and different. The main difference is that when using the menu system, the game pauses so it is possible to switch to a different weapon mid-fight thus making the combat easier, but you need to level up your block/parry move before to becomes effective (which takes a while as far as I can tell) However, if you are hit whilst blocking with a shield, you will stagger back and likewise if you do this to an enemy.

You can assign a weapon/shield/spell to either hand so it possible to have the standard shield/sword or maybe dual-wield 2 swords or go with a fireball spell and a sword - as I say, you can change mid-fight if things aren't going well. This makes it far more forgiving than Dark Souls as you can imagine but it is still a challenge. (The game does have 5 difficulty levels to choose from)

Magic, for the Imperial character I choose (so I cannot speak to all races available), I started with a couple of minor spells (1 healing and 1 destruction) and with use of the perk system, it is possible, as I have done to boost the effectiveness of these spells (for example, I have selected 1 perk that means casting of healing spells take 50% less magicka) However, better spells have to be bought or found in game and will not be effective until you put time into using lower power spells to raise the skill level of that particular magic.

As I say, hard to answer as they are 2 different beasts. Hope that helped or at least made sense.

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Post #: 126
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 4:57:05 PM   
Scott_

 

Posts: 3883
Joined: 26/6/2008
From: Leeds

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

But what about the combat? Dammit I must know... is it some turn based malarky, or is there the skill involved in a fight where I can roll around out of the way of an enemy before putting a fucking sword through his head?! GRAAAAAAAAAR

I can see there will be a toss up between trading Arkham City in for Skyrim, Assasins Creed or Battlefield. Bollocks.


Not sure about the roll but combat is not that shit turn based crap, just bludgeon motherfuckers or set them on fire or whatever. Magic, Swords, Arrows, Axes, Shields and more magic (seriously, you'll be like a member of the X-Men with that shit) you'll be setting people on fire and decapitating dudes all over the place, then head to the nearest inn for a brew afterwards.

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Post #: 127
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 5:02:52 PM   
Dark Knight


Posts: 1751
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Sedgley
The real main difference in the levelling structure is the fact that in Oblivion you had to concentrate on your 8(I think) main skills to be able to level your character.

In Skyrim, you can use and level any skill (I can list them all if anyone is interested) and it will count towards levelling up and your next perk point. As Scott says, if you want to get better at something just use it - the difference being, every thing will help in Skyrim

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Post #: 128
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 5:04:13 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10597
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

I have a question....



My main fear though, is that it will have all the trappings of RPG's that really scare me away. The endless tweaking of skills, with combat being a turn based hit, block, get hit, block, hit on and on. I'm worried that I wouldn't just be in control of my character in my preferred 3rd person taking it all in and doing what I want to do.



You want to be in control of your character and do what you want to do but you don't like RPGs?

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Post #: 129
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 5:06:17 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

But what about the combat? Dammit I must know... is it some turn based malarky, or is there the skill involved in a fight where I can roll around out of the way of an enemy before putting a fucking sword through his head?! GRAAAAAAAAAR

I can see there will be a toss up between trading Arkham City in for Skyrim, Assasins Creed or Battlefield. Bollocks.


Turn based combat requires far more skill than hack n'slash!!!

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Post #: 130
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 5:12:17 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

I have a question....



My main fear though, is that it will have all the trappings of RPG's that really scare me away. The endless tweaking of skills, with combat being a turn based hit, block, get hit, block, hit on and on. I'm worried that I wouldn't just be in control of my character in my preferred 3rd person taking it all in and doing what I want to do.



You want to be in control of your character and do what you want to do but you don't like RPGs?



Well yea. You surely understand what I mean regarding the traditional RPG's from yesteryear? Taking control wasn't a case of being able to go where you want or do what you want, it was more concerned with how much skill level and xp you could assign to your character. I hate all that. The kind of control I enjoy is being able to take my character where I like and do what I like, similar to the example I gave in Red Dead. It was open, it was immersive and it allowed me endless hours just pissing around doing what I want and never once did I have to worry about levelling up or some such rubbish. Also, the turn based combat of games gone by is fucking horrid, so to know that I can run around and do what I like/fight who I like, how I like, is a nice thing to know before I jump in.

Also DK, am I right in saying I can play the whole thing in third person?

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Post #: 131
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 5:14:44 PM   
Dark Knight


Posts: 1751
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Sedgley
quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper


Also DK, am I right in saying I can play the whole thing in third person?


Indeed you can - not for me personally, but if that is what floats your boat!

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Post #: 132
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 5:18:20 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005
I'm very much a 3rd person kinda guy.

Porntrooper - honestly I think you should get it. Almost forget that it's an RPG it will be one of the biggest and most absorbing open-world games out there. Giving that you liked killing time in RDR you'll do a lot of the same in this.

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Post #: 133
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 5:30:23 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10597
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

I have a question....



My main fear though, is that it will have all the trappings of RPG's that really scare me away. The endless tweaking of skills, with combat being a turn based hit, block, get hit, block, hit on and on. I'm worried that I wouldn't just be in control of my character in my preferred 3rd person taking it all in and doing what I want to do.



You want to be in control of your character and do what you want to do but you don't like RPGs?



Well yea. You surely understand what I mean regarding the traditional RPG's from yesteryear? Taking control wasn't a case of being able to go where you want or do what you want, it was more concerned with how much skill level and xp you could assign to your character. I hate all that. The kind of control I enjoy is being able to take my character where I like and do what I like, similar to the example I gave in Red Dead. It was open, it was immersive and it allowed me endless hours just pissing around doing what I want and never once did I have to worry about levelling up or some such rubbish. Also, the turn based combat of games gone by is fucking horrid, so to know that I can run around and do what I like/fight who I like, how I like, is a nice thing to know before I jump in.

Also DK, am I right in saying I can play the whole thing in third person?


The whole point of the traditional RPG is role-playing the character you the way you want, building the character up the way you want and doing the quests how you want to do them. Non-linearity and exploration are key parts of RPGs. This all goes back to D&D and games like Red Dead have taken elements from them, though in no way could they be considered RPGs. The main character in RDR, for example, is certainly not your character. You don't have the freedom to do whatever you like, John Marston will always be the character Rockstar want him to be and do the things Rockstar wants him to do.

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Post #: 134
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 5:38:26 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7987
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

But what about the combat? Dammit I must know... is it some turn based malarky, or is there the skill involved in a fight where I can roll around out of the way of an enemy before putting a fucking sword through his head?! GRAAAAAAAAAR

I can see there will be a toss up between trading Arkham City in for Skyrim, Assasins Creed or Battlefield. Bollocks.


Turn based combat requires far more skill than hack n'slash!!!


Not it doesn't. Turn based combat relies far too much on luck for the word skill to even be mentioned.

< Message edited by Harry Tuttle -- 10/11/2011 5:50:40 PM >


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Post #: 135
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:00:09 PM   
kata


Posts: 3196
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Motorville
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
Not it doesn't. Turn based combat relies far too much on luck for the word skill to even be mentioned.


The complete opposite of this is true.  I'm a massive turn based advocate, you should have a look at CMAK if you think turn based doesnt require skill.


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Post #: 136
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:03:16 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7987
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
Not it doesn't. Turn based combat relies far too much on luck for the word skill to even be mentioned.


The complete opposite of this is true.  I'm a massive turn based advocate, you should have a look at CMAK if you think turn based doesnt require skill.



CMAK isn't an RPG.

Turn based RPG's are reliant on a hidden roll of the dice for offence and defence. As you have no control over the roll of the dice then it is dependant on luck. The only skill involved is making sure you're wearing your strongest armour and your most powerful ring/necklace/bracelet. If you ask me that's not skill at all.

< Message edited by Harry Tuttle -- 10/11/2011 6:04:41 PM >


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Post #: 137
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:04:50 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10597
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

But what about the combat? Dammit I must know... is it some turn based malarky, or is there the skill involved in a fight where I can roll around out of the way of an enemy before putting a fucking sword through his head?! GRAAAAAAAAAR

I can see there will be a toss up between trading Arkham City in for Skyrim, Assasins Creed or Battlefield. Bollocks.


Turn based combat requires far more skill than hack n'slash!!!


Not it doesn't. Turn based combat relies far too much on luck for the word skill to even be mentioned.


Play Jagged Alliance 2 or X-COM and tell me that!

Luck is only for people who have rubbish tactics.

You can't say a game like Oblivion requires more skill than Fallout, Arcanum, Temple of Elemental Evil or even Baldur's Gate.

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Post #: 138
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:04:51 PM   
kata


Posts: 3196
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From: Motorville
Front mission 4... 

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Post #: 139
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:04:57 PM   
Dark Knight


Posts: 1751
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Sedgley
Just reading the review on X360acheivements.org and the reviewer states that after 117 hours of gametime, they were only level 38.

Wonder how long Level 50 will take to reach then.......

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Post #: 140
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:08:15 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7987
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

But what about the combat? Dammit I must know... is it some turn based malarky, or is there the skill involved in a fight where I can roll around out of the way of an enemy before putting a fucking sword through his head?! GRAAAAAAAAAR

I can see there will be a toss up between trading Arkham City in for Skyrim, Assasins Creed or Battlefield. Bollocks.


Turn based combat requires far more skill than hack n'slash!!!


Not it doesn't. Turn based combat relies far too much on luck for the word skill to even be mentioned.


Play Jagged Alliance 2 or X-COM and tell me that!

Luck is only for people who have rubbish tactics.

You can't say a game like Oblivion requires more skill than Fallout, Arcanum, Temple of Elemental Evil or even Baldur's Gate.


Your definition of skill differs to mine then. I refuse to accept that you can be skilful at something if the outcome of it is completely out of your hands.

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Post #: 141
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:27:45 PM   
Scott_

 

Posts: 3883
Joined: 26/6/2008
From: Leeds
Turn based is also fucking boring.

< Message edited by Scott_ -- 10/11/2011 6:28:07 PM >


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Post #: 142
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:40:19 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7987
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_

Turn based is also fucking boring.


It can be yes, but Lost Odyssey was turn based and that would make my top 15-20 games this generation.

_____________________________

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Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

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Post #: 143
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 6:44:39 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10597
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
Not it doesn't. Turn based combat relies far too much on luck for the word skill to even be mentioned.


The complete opposite of this is true.  I'm a massive turn based advocate, you should have a look at CMAK if you think turn based doesnt require skill.



CMAK isn't an RPG.

Turn based RPG's are reliant on a hidden roll of the dice for offence and defence. As you have no control over the roll of the dice then it is dependant on luck. The only skill involved is making sure you're wearing your strongest armour and your most powerful ring/necklace/bracelet. If you ask me that's not skill at all.


There's a lot more to it than that.

What skills/attributes are you going to have
How are you going to use them
How do you manage your turns/action points
What are the rules
Where do you place your characters
What mix of characters are you going to use to best suit your play-style/tactics.
What are your enemies strengths/weaknesses
How do you counter opposition attacks/buffs

Then also take into account that AI in turn based games tend to be of a much higher standard than real time. And every time you take a turn the enemy also takes a turn (generally). In most hack n'slash games you hit the enemy, get him on the ropes, and keep hitting till he's dead. The enemy doesn't have a chance to reply. Oś skill?

quote:

Your definition of skill differs to mine then. I refuse to accept that you can be skilful at something if the outcome of it is completely out of your hands.


Watch an expert Baldur's Gate player. The game is far from out of their hands. Their skill is so great it makes me feel sick and inadequate.

Out of interest do you think Mass Effect requires skill? It has dice rolls and stats checks too (one of the reason why it's > than ME2).

The Elder Scrolls also had dice rolls until Oblivion and most people would consider Oblivion a piece of cake compared to Daggerfall or Morrowind.

Dice roll + stat checks are essential ingredients in RPGs!


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Post #: 144
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 8:14:07 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 8461
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From: PLANET G
will be picking this up tomorrow lunchtime, really looking forward to playing it!

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Post #: 145
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 8:39:18 PM   
TrendMeUp


Posts: 984
Joined: 11/10/2005
My copy came this morning. I've got a good 5 and a half hours in so far and here are a few early impressions. This is pretty much spoiler free, unless you don't want the tiniest things revealed:


I've literally done none of the main quest apart from the mandatory part at the start. The dungeon for one of the early optional quests (the golden claw one mentioned in previews) was huuuge. I've been attacked by an Assassin for a reason I don't even know, got into a fist fight with a rude douchebag at a mead brewery, shot a bandit from the top of an ENORMOUS tower and watched him fall into the water below, hunted stag and elk, chopped and sold some wood, hunted a bandit leader for a bounty and broke into a local store and robbed it.

The levelling system works fine. It's very tough to decide which perks to pick as they're all really useful, although the vast majority aren't available at the start. Archery is really fun, swordplay is okay but a bit jumpy and uncomfortable. I've hardly used magic but it works brilliantly. Definitely going to make myself a Mage at some point. The visuals are amazing although the NPCs don't look quite as good as I expected. PS3 install is about 5 minutes or so. I've found loading times to be okay and they have some nice info in them and a little random image that you can rotate and zoom.

There seems to be TONNES of books and they're lengthier than the ones in Oblivion.

The map is amazing. I just love it.

Yes, you can have beards. And scars. And warpaint.

The landscape is gorgeous. Cooking and Alchemy are fun. You can mine ore to use in smithing.

The map is crazily dense. There is just so much to do.

So yeah, it's brilliant.


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Post #: 146
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 8:42:48 PM   
kata


Posts: 3196
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Motorville
quote:

ORIGINAL: TrendMeUp
Yes, you can have beards. And scars. And warpaint.


Having all 3 of those.


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Post #: 147
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 8:44:30 PM   
TrendMeUp


Posts: 984
Joined: 11/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: kata

quote:

ORIGINAL: TrendMeUp
Yes, you can have beards. And scars. And warpaint.


Having all 3 of those.



Haha. I skipped the warpaint. You can also have one whited out eye so it looks like you're half blind.


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Post #: 148
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 10/11/2011 10:05:59 PM   
Hooch0959

 

Posts: 2100
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Sedgley

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

I'd like to know as well. Is it similar to Fallout 3/New Vegas - my only previous experience with RPG



Just like it but in a different setting and swords and magic and ting, so if you enjoyed the RPG style of fallout, you'll be alright with this dude.

I spent about three hours on it today, the most important lesson I learnt was to save more often than I did, I had to start the first dungeon I was in about seven times. You would have thought I would have learnt my lesson. I too have only done the mandatory first part of the main quest and then went off seeing what trouble I could get into with my war painted , battle scared, trampy, special brew drinking Woodelf theif called Mulumbu. I fought some crazy half dead mummy fellas that looked spectacular, that's what has struck me most about this game, whilst I'll agree the NPCs are graphically good but not outstanding, some of the monsters/creatures have left me speechless. I did some tanning and blacksmithing. I hunted Elk, caught salmon, killed some guards and stole a horse.

I have only reached level 5 so far so I can't say for certain but it looks as if it may be a struggle to level up a thieving/warrior/Mage like I did in Oblivion, it would appear that it may actually take multiple playthroughs to play as everything I want to, but I can't say for sure yet

I have a feeling we'll be playing this one for a while Gents, it fucking rocks so far

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(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 149
RE: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 11/11/2011 7:30:21 AM   
BigKovacs


Posts: 3187
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Textile Street.
Turn based combat and real time combat are simply different skill sets. It's easy to spam both styles and make them too easy but a well designed game will make the skill set challenging and fun.

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Post #: 150
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