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RE: Top Horror Films Poll

 
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RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 11:57:53 AM   
rawlinson

 

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That's the thing, the action overwhelmed any horror for me. I gained a new respect for Alien recently, enough to vote for it in my sci-fi list even, but even when I wasn't a fan I could still recognise what it was doing and how it was just a horror in a different location. In many ways it throws back beyond the slashers to the old dark house films. Aliens to me is sci-fi and war, very little in it other than the aliens themselves suggest horror to me. But at the same time the idea of it as horror is something I'm sympathetic to.

I'm going to try and find a way to deal with the borderline titles to make sure it's fair rather than just me ruling in or out. Some titles are obviously not horror (Rings, Potter, etc) and I will rule those out straight away. Some are too borderline and I'd rather rule in than out in general on those cases. So for Aliens, I'll leave it up to you guys. Anyone feel strongly either way?

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Post #: 61
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:09:57 PM   
Pigeon Army


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

That's the thing, the action overwhelmed any horror for me. I gained a new respect for Alien recently, enough to vote for it in my sci-fi list even, but even when I wasn't a fan I could still recognise what it was doing and how it was just a horror in a different location. In many ways it throws back beyond the slashers to the old dark house films. Aliens to me is sci-fi and war, very little in it other than the aliens themselves suggest horror to me. But at the same time the idea of it as horror is something I'm sympathetic to.






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Post #: 62
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:11:43 PM   
HughesRoss


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Too over complicate matters, I see The Terminator and Se7en as horrors

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Post #: 63
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:16:32 PM   
rawlinson

 

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I'd actually agree on both of those. The Terminator in presentation really isn't that different to a slasher and Se7en is far removed from a police procedural. Yeah, both are fine. 

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Post #: 64
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:16:57 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

That's the thing, the action overwhelmed any horror for me. I gained a new respect for Alien recently, enough to vote for it in my sci-fi list even, but even when I wasn't a fan I could still recognise what it was doing and how it was just a horror in a different location. In many ways it throws back beyond the slashers to the old dark house films. Aliens to me is sci-fi and war, very little in it other than the aliens themselves suggest horror to me. But at the same time the idea of it as horror is something I'm sympathetic to.







That's a compelling reason to allow Aliens.

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Post #: 65
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:18:38 PM   
HughesRoss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

I'd actually agree on both of those. The Terminator in presentation really isn't that different to a slasher and Se7en is far removed from a police procedural. Yeah, both are fine. 


Agreed, Arnie is more or less Michael Myers in the original......and Se7en is too damn horiffic to be a thriller!

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Post #: 66
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:24:11 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HughesRoss

Agreed, Arnie is more or less Michael Myers in the original......and Se7en is too damn horiffic to be a thriller!


Yeah, the sequels are all out though.

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Post #: 67
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:24:41 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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I thought he was arguing The Big Lebowski...

Anyway, I see the two main genre conventions of Aliens as SciFi & War. It's definitely not a horror. Of course it contains scenes of tension and suchlike, but I don't think horror as a monopoly on those kinds of scenes.

I also don't really see Brazil is a horror either.

Incidentally, rawls, in dismissing two of gimli' suggestions, you inadvertently abbreviated Monsters, Inc to "Monsters", which is of course a different film entirely, and one which some might consider a horror. But, since I was at a Q&A with the director and he said "it's not a horror", I think that one can stay in the SciFi camp...

*cue people using the 'once something enters the public domain ownership leaves the creator, and they have no further say on it' argument*...


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Post #: 68
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:31:32 PM   
matty_b


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What about Barton Fink? And Fight Club? Not that I'd vote for it, but I do remember Empire including it in their 50 Greatest Horror Films special from a few years ago.

Oh yeah, I'm in for this one, by the way.

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Post #: 69
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:48:26 PM   
elab49


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Grief, people just want to shoehorn Fight Club into every best of they can, don't they? Horror

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Post #: 70
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:49:25 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

Anyway, I see the two main genre conventions of Aliens as SciFi & War. It's definitely not a horror. Of course it contains scenes of tension and suchlike, but I don't think horror as a monopoly on those kinds of scenes.



That's basically my feeling on it as well. I'm still willing to listen to a compelling reason for it as a horror, and if the overwhelming feeling is for it to be included then I will, but I'm not really feeling it.

quote:

I also don't really see Brazil is a horror either.


If I wasn't ruling in other comedy-horror films then I wouldn't include this. But as a parody of dystopian horror I think it's going to be included.

quote:

Incidentally, rawls, in dismissing two of gimli' suggestions, you inadvertently abbreviated Monsters, Inc to "Monsters", which is of course a different film entirely, and one which some might consider a horror. But, since I was at a Q&A with the director and he said "it's not a horror", I think that one can stay in the SciFi camp...


I haven't seen Monsters yet, but it does look more sci-fi. I don't always trust directors though. I'm sure it was Neil Jordan who tried claiming Company of Wolves wasn't a horror film and it just made him look a bit of an arse.

quote:

What about Barton Fink? And Fight Club? Not that I'd vote for it, but I do remember Empire including it in their 50 Greatest Horror Films special from a few years ago.

Oh yeah, I'm in for this one, by the way.


You know, I was waiting for someone to bring up Fight Club.

Spoilers for Fight Club.

One the one hand I can see it, because much of the film is Jekyll & Hyde which in itself was a reframing of werewolf stories. So on the most purely basic level of Fight Club being another film that depicts the beast within I can see it as horror as part of the werewolf archetype. That said, the approach doesn't scream horror.

Barton Fink I'm more inclined to give a yes to.

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Post #: 71
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 12:54:15 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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I'm inclined to agree with Fight Club not being horror - it doesn't really have any of the hallmarks, other than using a bit of a framework. None of the 'beats' is horror, as it were.

Neil Jordan was probably a bit of an arse tho - Gareth Edwards seemed like a genuinely nice bloke who I hope is destined for great things. Also, the film really isn't horror - if it were going to appear in two different genre lists, it would be SciFi and Love Story...


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Post #: 72
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:02:19 PM   
elab49


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Did Stevenson link Jekyll and Hyde to werewolf stories? I thought it was something entirely different. And Fight Club's bog standard mental illness isn't it? Which is why I think it's an amazing reach tbh.

On Jekyll and Hyde though - does Moffat's Jekyll count as a sufficiently contained story for this?

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ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 73
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:06:28 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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If we're counting Jekyll and Hyde-type stories, can I have Hulk

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Post #: 74
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:10:11 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

I'm inclined to agree with Fight Club not being horror - it doesn't really have any of the hallmarks, other than using a bit of a framework. None of the 'beats' is horror, as it were.


This. A similar case can be presented for the likes of Taxi Driver, but I don't think I'd accept that either.

quote:

Neil Jordan was probably a bit of an arse tho.


Even more so because The Company of Wolves so clearly is horror.

quote:

Did Stevenson link Jekyll and Hyde to werewolf stories? I thought it was something entirely different.


It's in the same archetype of the beast within, so it is generally classed in the same sub-genre. It's not that far different tbh. Only the overt elements are.  But I agree Fight Club's a bit of a stretch because even though it uses the framework, as Homer points out, the approach is very much not horror.

quote:

On Jekyll and Hyde though - does Moffat's Jekyll count as a sufficiently contained story for this?


Yeah, Jekyll's fine. Anything two series or more isn't. But I'll offer two things up for all of you to decide. League of Gentlemen - series would be a no. The Christmas special I'm inclined to say yes to. It's very much a bubble episode, you can watch it and enjoy it while knowing nothing about the series itself and it doesn't follow the same rules as the series. The Psychoville special I'd rule out because it clearly was part of the series. But what does everyone think about LoG? Also, Sapphire & Steel, is there a case for individual stories to count as stand-alones?

One more film that's due to come up and I'm going to offer up to the board - Vertigo. It's basically a reframed ghost story. Yes, there's no actual supernatural element, but the basics are there and it's always seen as a borderline case. Any strong feelings either way?

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Post #: 75
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:11:43 PM   
swordsandsandals


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The Host?

Family drama, surely? BUT THERE IS A BIG MONSTER. And it's good.

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Post #: 76
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:12:59 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

If we're counting Jekyll and Hyde-type stories, can I have Hulk


No, no Spider Man either.

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Post #: 77
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:14:22 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: swordsandsandals

The Host?

Family drama, surely? BUT THERE IS A BIG MONSTER. And it's good.


The Host is fine. As is King Kong, Godzilla, Digby the Biggest Dog in the World, Kitten Kong.

Btw, I'm going to say yes to Barton Fink.

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Post #: 78
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:14:23 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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I suspect people may want to hold off sending in lists for this until The Walking Dead has finished, as it may well be included. Although a second season has been commissioned, the first season is only 6 or 8 episodes long.

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Post #: 79
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:15:31 PM   
rawlinson

 

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If the second series is going ahead it'll have to be no though.

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Post #: 80
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:17:52 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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Serious question now - what about Dead Man's Shoes?

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Post #: 81
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:20:20 PM   
rawlinson

 

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Absolutely yes.

Spoilers for Dead Man's Shoes


I know some people debate if the supernatural element of the story is genuine, but even without it I think the general approach pushes it into horror. 

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Post #: 82
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:23:34 PM   
clownfoot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

Anyway, I see the two main genre conventions of Aliens as SciFi & War. It's definitely not a horror. Of course it contains scenes of tension and suchlike, but I don't think horror as a monopoly on those kinds of scenes.



That's basically my feeling on it as well. I'm still willing to listen to a compelling reason for it as a horror, and if the overwhelming feeling is for it to be included then I will, but I'm not really feeling it.



It has Aliens (an army of them) with sharp, teeth, claws, etc. who like to goo their victims to the wall of their hive so they can be incubated by a facehugger leading to chetburster glory. When the marines first set foot in the atmosphere processor, it's a little grim seeing all the colonists plastered to the wall. Plus, Bishop gets torn in half by the Queen, Ripley's dream at gateway is pretty "eek", Riply and Newt stuck in medical with two face-huggers is the definition of terror on screen which most horrors suck and fail to deliver and then the lights go out!S ure, after a billion viewings I've kind of become desensitised to it all, but I'd still count it as horror... 

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Post #: 83
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:27:31 PM   
elab49


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What Clowny said

League of Gentleman I can't comment on as I wouldn't have it in the list anyway but it feels more like a series overall rather than really self-contained enough?

I agree on Walking Dead - it will be multiple series given the ratings AMC have been getting.

I'd like to second individual epis of Sapphire and Steel though as they were like individually written plays with no real linkage except the main characters. Because serial 2 would be a slam dunk for my list. Although that might bring questions about the old format Dr Who with non-interlinked stories in serial form (definitely not the clear story arc of the new series). But if that was allowed - but only individual stories - I'd opt to have Fang Rock in as well.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 9/11/2010 1:28:44 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 84
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:32:47 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
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Fairest thing with Aliens, I'll put it to a vote.

LoG - The series I feel are definite nos, but that Christmas special definitely is a stand-alone. Characters are killed who are then resurrected for the series and it follows storylines that don't tie-in at all. I'm tempted to let the Christmas special through.

Yeah, serial 2 of Sapphire & Steel feels a natural, as does number 4. There's so little connection between stories that it feels right to have them as stand-alones.

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Post #: 85
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:34:51 PM   
HughesRoss


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Rawls. I feel very sorry for you mate, going through all these suggestions.......I have made my 50 already, probably get to 100 no probs.......no guessing though which is at Number one!

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Post #: 86
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:35:01 PM   
matty_b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

What Clowny said

League of Gentleman I can't comment on as I wouldn't have it in the list anyway but it feels more like a series overall rather than really self-contained enough?

I agree on Walking Dead - it will be multiple series given the ratings AMC have been getting.

I'd like to second individual epis of Sapphire and Steel though as they were like individually written plays with no real linkage except the main characters. Because serial 2 would be a slam dunk for my list. Although that might bring questions about the old format Dr Who with non-interlinked stories in serial form (definitely not the clear story arc of the new series). But if that was allowed - but only individual stories - I'd opt to have Fang Rock in as well.


Yes. Curse of Fenric, too.

Regarding Vertigo, I personally wouldn't class it as horror. There's no supernatural elements and as brilliant as it is, I'd say it's firmly in the realms of psychological thriller.

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Post #: 87
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:35:19 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
Although that might bring questions about the old format Dr Who with non-interlinked stories in serial form (definitely not the clear story arc of the new series). But if that was allowed - but only individual stories - I'd opt to have Fang Rock in as well.


That was something else I'd considered, oddly enough for Fang Rock as well. My issue with Dr. Who is there was often a continuity between them. So again, I'm torn. Fang Rock would be an excellent addition though, as would Weng Chiang.

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Post #: 88
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:37:14 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HughesRoss

Rawls. I feel very sorry for you mate, going through all these suggestions.......I have made my 50 already, probably get to 100 no probs.......no guessing though which is at Number one!


Oddly enough, I'm actually enjoying it. I'd be shocked if you didn't make 100, mate.

quote:

Regarding Vertigo, I personally wouldn't class it as horror. There's no supernatural elements and as brilliant as it is, I'd say it's firmly in the realms of psychological thriller.


I think the main reason it often gets brought up is because it uses so many of the ideas of supernatural fiction. Also, the atmosphere I think.

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Post #: 89
RE: Top Horror Films Poll - 9/11/2010 1:38:51 PM   
elab49


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I think it was really only later you began to see much in the way of continuity though with Dr Who? If allowed, I'd certainly argue for Fang Rock being a one-off. There's another I'm struggling for the title of that felt like classic Hammer as well.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 90
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