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RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:08:55 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17019
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
quote:

What I have a problem with is the fact that we, the taxpayers, have to stump up for the supposed honour.


I second that.

With the state of the country's current economy I'm intrigued to know where the cash is being pulled from for this glorified holiday. Out of our pockets presumably...


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Post #: 31
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:13:25 PM   
paul.mccluskey


Posts: 5098
Joined: 15/4/2007
From: Port Glasgow, Scotland, UK
It was originally £13 million, then it was £15 million. What's the extra £2 million for?

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Post #: 32
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:13:57 PM   
Funkyrae


Posts: 20358
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From: Just stick a pin in a map
Laying on extra McDonalds to prove we're not a Third World country presumably.

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Post #: 33
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:14:30 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17019
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
quote:

ORIGINAL: paul.mccluskey

It was originally £13 million, then it was £15 million. What's the extra £2 million for?


Brothels and a Bentley. Who knows?

Where's he actually going on this little shindig anyway?


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Post #: 34
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:21:19 PM   
DJ Satan


Posts: 9023
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: White Vaart Lane
Pot calling kettle black:
quote:


Reacting to the first remarks of the Pope on his state visit, the British Humanist Association has expressed its disappointment. 'The notion that it was the atheism of Nazis that led to their extremist and hateful views or that somehow fuels intolerance in Britain today is a terrible libel against those who do not believe in god. The notion that it is non-religious people in the UK today who want to force their views on others, coming from a man whose organisation exerts itself internationally to impose its narrow and exclusive form of morality and undermine the human rights of women, children, gay people and many others, is surreal.'

Did the nazi-pope just compare athiests to nazis?

Edit: Found it: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2010/09/16/papal-visit-2010-popes-holyroodhouse-speech-full-text/
quote:

Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny”


< Message edited by DJ Satan -- 16/9/2010 12:32:07 PM >


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Post #: 35
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:22:01 PM   
paul.mccluskey


Posts: 5098
Joined: 15/4/2007
From: Port Glasgow, Scotland, UK
He's left Holyrood now and is going to Cardinal O'Briend's house for his dinner, where, it's been revealed by the BBC, that he will have a traditional Scottish dinner of haggis, neaps and tatties. I expected something more posh!

He will then travel from Edinburgh to Glasgow, where he will perform a mass at Bellahouston Park at 5 o'clock. Tomorrow, he travels to England, where he will visit St Mary's University College at Twickenham, before performing a Mass at Westminster Abbey. On Saturday, he will perform Mass at Westminster Cathedral and a Prayer Vigil at Hyde Park, then on Sunday, he will celebrate a Mass beatification of Cardinal John Henry Newman at Cofton Park in Birmingham.

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Post #: 36
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:31:37 PM   
JessFranco


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Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
The taxpayer is coming up with 10 million, the rest is being funded by the church. Officially, the state portion relates to the fact that it's a state visit - they'd pay for Obama or Hu or Berlusconi - so they have to pay for the Pope in his capacity as the Vatican's head of state. The explicitly religious bits are paid for by the church. It's obviously a bit of a false divide, as he's here in a religious capacity, but it's protocol. The question isn't why he the UK is paying for it, it's why he was invited.

Ultimately, whether it provides 'good value' is impossible to judge. If millions of British Catholics / taxpayers turn out to see him, it'll arguably have been worthwhile. If they don't, it'll look like a waste of money to many.

It's a bit of a shame that the first official state visit of a Pope to the UK had to be this one, rather than someone less objectionable, but it'll be an important event for many and has also provided his critics, both Catholic and secular, with a media platform to air their views.

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Post #: 37
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:37:28 PM   
jonson


Posts: 8919
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

Oh the irony - kinda like going to Lourdes only to drown in the grotto



My daughter went to Lourdes this year with the school (a Catholic school) and they spent 3 days looking after elderly and infirm people. She came back full of love and enthusiasm. Despite not coming from a Catholic home this was our first experience of this kind of thing and I thought it was utterly superb and every child should be encouraged to do it.

Personally I have big issues with the Catholic faith, but I have bigger issues with Atheists. Smug bastards most of them, and I don't disagree with the comments about "agressive atheists"
Atheists IMO are the new non-smokers, the people who look down their noses on religion and faith and can only comment on paedophilia or the vast wealth without even bothering to look at the good that arises from "having faith" (which sounds better than "being religious") Because they think they can explain everything with science and that twattishly dull keyboard player from D-Ream, any kind of religion is scorned and dismissed.
That said, the money spent on bringing the old Nazi over is quite obscene, but while there are clearly more Catholics in the country than Atheists, and clearly more "good" Catholics than "bad" ones I'm happy to not give a fuck.
Despite this post.

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Post #: 38
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:49:22 PM   
DJ Satan


Posts: 9023
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: White Vaart Lane
quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson
Atheists IMO are the new non-smokers, the people who look down their noses on religion and faith and can only comment on paedophilia or the vast wealth without even bothering to look at the good that arises from "having faith" (which sounds better than "being religious")

That view point implies that you can't do good unless you're told to by you religion. But by following religion it can make many normally good people do bad things they probably wouldn't do unless told.

Humanism says everyone should be loved equally. Most religions say that everyone should be loved, unless we don't like them.


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Post #: 39
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:50:36 PM   
DJ Satan


Posts: 9023
Joined: 26/10/2005
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C of E vs the Catholic Church

FIGHT!!!


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Post #: 40
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 12:59:46 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

Oh the irony - kinda like going to Lourdes only to drown in the grotto



My daughter went to Lourdes this year with the school (a Catholic school) and they spent 3 days looking after elderly and infirm people. She came back full of love and enthusiasm. Despite not coming from a Catholic home this was our first experience of this kind of thing and I thought it was utterly superb and every child should be encouraged to do it.

Personally I have big issues with the Catholic faith, but I have bigger issues with Atheists. Smug bastards most of them, and I don't disagree with the comments about "agressive atheists"
Atheists IMO are the new non-smokers, the people who look down their noses on religion and faith and can only comment on paedophilia or the vast wealth without even bothering to look at the good that arises from "having faith" (which sounds better than "being religious") Because they think they can explain everything with science and that twattishly dull keyboard player from D-Ream, any kind of religion is scorned and dismissed.
That said, the money spent on bringing the old Nazi over is quite obscene, but while there are clearly more Catholics in the country than Atheists, and clearly more "good" Catholics than "bad" ones I'm happy to not give a fuck.
Despite this post.


You're just happy this pope's a bloke, not like that Joan mishap when you were younger...

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Post #: 41
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:17:53 PM   
Deviation


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Jonson, please tell us, how was the universe created? I was told you were there when it did.

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Post #: 42
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:18:38 PM   
Pigeon Army


Posts: 14612
Joined: 29/1/2006
From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.
quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson
Atheists IMO are the new non-smokers, the people who look down their noses on religion and faith and can only comment on paedophilia or the vast wealth without even bothering to look at the good that arises from "having faith" (which sounds better than "being religious")


What DJ Satan said. Just because you're an atheist or an agnostic doesn't mean you can't have faith. It's not impossible to have faith in humanity and not have faith in an omniscient, omnipresent deity - it's not like the two are inextricably linked.

quote:

Because they think they can explain everything with science


That's wrong. Any atheist worth their salt will tell you that obviously we can't explain everything with science yet; just because one does not believe in metaphysical deities whose perfection can't stop them from constructing a planet full of contradictions and flaws, doesn't mean that they immediately believe science answers all in the here and now. Obviously there are some disproportionately loud fringe elements in atheism, but show me a religion that doesn't.


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quote:

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Post #: 43
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:19:24 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4190
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Here - Stephen Fry responds to today's Mail headline:

http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/09/16/dailymailhate/




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Post #: 44
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:19:33 PM   
Harry Lime


Posts: 5147
Joined: 30/9/2005
[aggression] Piss off, Jonson, you paedo-sympathising, woman-hating, AIDS spreading mook! [/aggression]

I'm sorry mate, but the idea of "agressive atheism" is absolutely hysterical coming from the mouths of an organisation that, in its desire to spread the word of God, has given us the crusades, the inquisition and forced conversion as well as riding the bloody wave of colonisalism with missionaries in Africa, Asia and South America in an effort to increase its numbers. You come back to me when atheism gets that agressive, Jonson.

Religious organisations have had thousands of years brutalising and terrorising the common man into following their own self-serving (and rather lucrative) doctrines with impunity. An Oxford professor writes a book questioning God's existence and a few sharp-witted comedians belittle faith on TV and all of a sudden atheism is agressive? Fuck right off.

And that's without touching on The Catholic Church's complicity with the Nazi's in dealing with the Jews and Roma gypsies in the Balkans during WWII. Which makes that bigoted, morally gutless former Hitler Youth cunt's comments today all the more disgraceful.

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Post #: 45
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:43:40 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Lime

Which makes that bigoted, morally gutless former Hitler Youth cunt's comments today all the more disgraceful.


Sorry to quote it when its right above me, but thats the funniest (and most completely spot on) thing ive read today.

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Post #: 46
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:44:09 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
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From: the dark side of the sun
One of the worst things about the Catholic church is the way they encourage abstinence over the use of condoms in Africa where AIDs is such a problem.

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Post #: 47
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:51:49 PM   
DJ Satan


Posts: 9023
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: White Vaart Lane
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

One of the worst things about the Catholic church is the way they encourage abstinence over the use of condoms in Africa where AIDs is such a problem.

They don't just encourage abstinence, they actually say that condoms have holes in them that encourages the spread of AIDS and should never be used at all.


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Don't try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person
You hadn't had enough to know what it's like
You're only angry cause you wish you were in my position
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Post #: 48
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:51:59 PM   
LEEJGM


Posts: 1039
Joined: 21/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Lime

Which makes that bigoted, morally gutless former Hitler Youth cunt's comments today all the more disgraceful.


Sorry to quote it when its right above me, but thats the funniest (and most completely spot on) thing ive read today.


I totally agree.  I laughed and spat hot coffee out through my nose (I blame the Pope for that too).
I've always like Harry's posts but that is probably the finest line from anything I've ever read on this forum.  


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Post #: 49
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:52:29 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7909
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria
quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson
Personally I have big issues with the Catholic faith, but I have bigger issues with Atheists. Smug bastards most of them, and I don't disagree with the comments about "agressive atheists"
Atheists IMO are the new non-smokers, the people who look down their noses on religion and faith and can only comment on paedophilia or the vast wealth without even bothering to look at the good that arises from "having faith" (which sounds better than "being religious") Because they think they can explain everything with science and that twattishly dull keyboard player from D-Ream, any kind of religion is scorned and dismissed.


Thank fuck I married a catholic.

Anyway, ignoring the dribblings of the old man, isn't aggressive atheism, nihilism...?


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Post #: 50
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:53:21 PM   
crimond


Posts: 209
Joined: 5/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

One of the worst things about the Catholic church is the way they encourage abstinence over the use of condoms in Africa where AIDs is such a problem.

This was the also the opinion of Pope John Paul II yet people want him to be classed as a 'saint'.

I have to say I feel sorry for the priests who do good/valued work in their communities who are let down and tarred with the same brush by a 'managment' of gutless old men who's views on right and wrong are atrocious.  Putting the needs of the church ahead of vulnerable children has blighted the Catholic church forever, and rightly so.

I also wish that the Queen had turned down the invite and not provided a royal residence for the Pope to present his political speech.  Although I doubt she had much say on the matter.

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Post #: 51
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 1:59:59 PM   
chilipenguin


Posts: 1068
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: Edinburgh
I doubt that most people (especially in Scotland) give two shits that the Queen gave him her blessing. She is a non-entity in my book. It's bad enough that he was here in the first place.

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Post #: 52
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 2:02:54 PM   
DJ Satan


Posts: 9023
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: White Vaart Lane
I'm listening to the Johann Hari interview on radio 4 from last night. (10 minutes in: link)

Apparently they have sold about 120000 tickets for two open air speeches. Muse sold more than that for 2 nights at Wembley. I can't see the government giving them £20 mllion for it.

Best bit:
Hari: "Ratzinger covered up the rape of 200 deaf and mute children by a priest"
Priest: "I think you took that out of context".

How can you take the rape of 200 children out of context?


_____________________________

Don't try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person
You hadn't had enough to know what it's like
You're only angry cause you wish you were in my position
Now nod your head cause you know that I'm right..alright!

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Post #: 53
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 2:07:57 PM   
chilipenguin


Posts: 1068
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: Edinburgh
quote:

ORIGINAL: DJ Satan

I'm listening to the Johann Hari interview on radio 4 from last night. (10 minutes in: link)

Apparently they have sold about 120000 tickets for two open air speeches. Muse sold more than that for 2 nights at Wembley. I can't see the government giving them £20 mllion for it.

Best bit:
Hari: "Ratzinger covered up the rape of 200 deaf and mute children by a priest"
Priest: "I think you took that out of context".

How can you take the rape of 200 children out of context?




Because God works in mysterious ways?


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Post #: 54
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 2:08:12 PM   
shool


Posts: 9983
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DJ Satan

Best bit:
Hari: "Ratzinger covered up the rape of 200 deaf and mute children by a priest"
Priest: "I think you took that out of context".

How can you take the rape of 200 children out of context?



That actually makes me feel ill.


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Post #: 55
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 2:12:37 PM   
crimond


Posts: 209
Joined: 5/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: DJ Satan

Best bit:
Hari: "Ratzinger covered up the rape of 200 deaf and mute children by a priest"
Priest: "I think you took that out of context".

How can you take the rape of 200 children out of context?



That actually makes me feel ill.



The man is a disgrace.  Yet the UK has apparently 'invited' him for a visit.

Yet Snoop Dogg was denied a visa????

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Post #: 56
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 2:23:23 PM   
shool


Posts: 9983
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: crimond

Yet Snoop Dogg was denied a visa????



Yes but Ice-T was on all star Mr & Mrs last night so that surely redresses the balance.


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Post #: 57
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 2:37:40 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
quote:

ORIGINAL: DJ Satan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

One of the worst things about the Catholic church is the way they encourage abstinence over the use of condoms in Africa where AIDs is such a problem.

They don't just encourage abstinence, they actually say that condoms have holes in them that encourages the spread of AIDS and should never be used at all.



Fucking hell - they are actually nuts

(in reply to DJ Satan)
Post #: 58
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 2:42:06 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54428
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

The taxpayer is coming up with 10 million, the rest is being funded by the church. Officially, the state portion relates to the fact that it's a state visit - they'd pay for Obama or Hu or Berlusconi - so they have to pay for the Pope in his capacity as the Vatican's head of state.


Surely the problem is implicitly accepting him as a head of state which he simply is not, unless we're going to ratify all convenient agreements made by Fascists to bolster support. And, while doing so, allow them to play on it to try and get immunity from the many attempts to prosecute someone for the endemic abuse of children.

'State' is a convenient fiction agreed with fascists in the 20s. The UN should have the balls to put it bluntly rather than this silly observer status.

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Post #: 59
RE: "A new and aggressive atheism" - 16/9/2010 3:00:02 PM   
DJ Satan


Posts: 9023
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: White Vaart Lane
It gets worse:






[Those are actual screen shots from Pioneers: Black Sabbath, aired on Channel 4 in 2000. With the mention of Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath and AC/DC as the "worst offenders", that newspaper article could date back to the mid-1970s - and probably does, Venom (first album 1981) and Iron Maiden (The Number Of The Beast is still causing sloppy hacks to call them "satanic" in 2008) being conspicuous by their absence. - nicked from a friend's LJ]

_____________________________

Don't try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person
You hadn't had enough to know what it's like
You're only angry cause you wish you were in my position
Now nod your head cause you know that I'm right..alright!

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Post #: 60
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