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RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 8:36:25 AM   
BigKovacs


Posts: 3203
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From: Textile Street.
I wouldn't take those Ancient Astronaut documentaries too seriously, they're all based on assumption and supposition and huge leaps of faith.

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RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 2:51:07 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


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From: Edinburger, Scottyland
It was a very interesting watch though and had some of the best people on the programme. If you believed what they were telling you, a lot of things would actually make a lot more sense. I'll try and get the link up later today. It would be great to hear some opinions on it.

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Post #: 362
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:07:15 PM   
BigKovacs


Posts: 3203
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From: Textile Street.
Apart from Carl Sagan I don't know of anyone worth mentioning that is a proponent of Ancient Astronauts. So far historians, archaeologists and scientists have debunked the various theories.

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Post #: 363
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:10:21 PM   
Woger


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I don't think Sagan had any time for the idea of aliens visiting us.

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Post #: 364
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:20:10 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
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From: Edinburger, Scottyland
Well, I'm sold on the belief that there is indeed alien life out there. That's based on the fact that the Universe is so vast, housing all those Suns, Moons, Galaxies etc. etc. I'm sorry but to think that man and man alone is all that exists here, is to me extremely naive. But each to their own of course.

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Post #: 365
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:28:27 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
I have a big problem with those docs and how they twist things to fit an obvious agenda.

Also sad that we don't think mankind are capable of these great buildings themselves - for all the bad we can do, we also have an amazing capacity for invention.

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Post #: 366
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:33:11 PM   
Rgirvan44


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From: Punishment Park
For instance - the statues - could they be evidence of spacesuits or could they just be these helmets?



Which makes more logical sense?

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Post #: 367
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:36:04 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
This is true girv. I guess it's just from all those hinters pointing towards old civilisations worshipping what we today would identify as aliens, that's got me going. I just don't buy the Universe only housing ourselves as its soul form of life. We are a great race in regards to invention indeed, I just don't think we are the best/ smartest race out there.

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Post #: 368
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:39:36 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

For instance - the statues - could they be evidence of spacesuits or could they just be these helmets?



Which makes more logical sense?




OK... money, meet mouth;








< Message edited by NinjaShortbread212 -- 1/7/2012 3:41:03 PM >


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Post #: 369
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:43:21 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

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@NinjaShortBread212

I knew someone would bring those pics up.
Extremely fascinating.

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Post #: 370
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:44:02 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
This is an interesting painting, of a man in what appears to be a space ship. How would one explain away that? Remember, they would of had no clue of anything remotely close to resembling this in their time.



Sorry the image isn't that good. It was the best I could find at the minute. This also came up in the documentary last night.

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Post #: 371
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:45:08 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
One of the things these docs do time and again is withdraw certain key bits of information which would throw their arguments into a tailspin. There is a famous Aztec image of what appears to be someone controlling a spaceship...but if you pan out you will see it is part of a much bigger, and more traditonal drawing. It isn't some sign of being visited by aliens.

As a history student, it boggles my mind that this stuff is being put onto the History Channel. Time and again it falls apart under scrutiny. It has no more evidence to support it than Creationalism to be honest. History is a science, it needs facts, it needs to be put weighed, and assessed, and at the end of the day there needs to be proof. There is no proof - just speculation, and in a lot of times, a bunch of hacks who want to make a quick buck by making outlandish claims.

Do I think we know everything about old cultures? Of course not. There is evidence of some interesting progressions in science, suggesting a degree of sophiscation not previously expected. But that does not equal = aliens. What it means is that the early days of modern man where more complex than we expected.

As for life out in the stars - I am sure that there is something, or many things out there. But I don't think they have visited here, and I don't think we will ever encounter intellgent life. Universe is just far too big to travel through.



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Post #: 372
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:45:24 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8287
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212
I just don't buy the Universe only housing ourselves as its soul form of life. We are a great race in regards to invention indeed, I just don't think we are the best/ smartest race out there.


The problem is we have no real basis for comparison - just because we exist, doesn't mean it is in any way probable that similarly intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe. For all we know, our mere existence could be one of the unlikeliest flukes in the history of the universe. And even though it's unimaginably vast, space is basically just that - space. The distances involved are beyond comprehension. I love the Bill Bryson quote from A Short History Of Nearly Everything:

“We may be only one of millions of advanced civilizations. Unfortunately, space being spacious, the average distance between any two of these civilizations is reckoned to be at least two hundred light-years, which is a great deal more than merely saying it makes it sound. It means for a start that even if these beings know we are here and are somehow able to see us in their telescopes, they're watching light that left Earth two hundred years ago. So, they're not seeing you and me. They're watching the French Revolution and Thomas Jefferson and people in silk stockings and powdered wigs--people who don't know what an atom is, or a gene, and who make their electricity by rubbing a rod of amber with a piece of fur and think that's quite a trick. Any message we receive from them is likely to begin "Dear Sire," and congratulate us on the handsomness of our horses and our mastery of whale oil. Two hundred light-years is a distance so far beyond us as to be, well, just beyond us.”

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Post #: 373
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:45:27 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

@NinjaShortBread212

I knew someone would bring those pics up.
Extremely fascinating.



Yeah, my mind was blow. Some of the technical things they were capturing in their art in those days - you couldn't make up!


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Post #: 374
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:49:10 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

For instance - the statues - could they be evidence of spacesuits or could they just be these helmets?



Which makes more logical sense?




OK... money, meet mouth;









They just look like variations of this



We know they wore head gear - sometimes to an elaborate degree. Nothing in those statues says spacesuit to me.

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Post #: 375
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:50:54 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4393
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

For instance - the statues - could they be evidence of spacesuits or could they just be these helmets?



Which makes more logical sense?




OK... money, meet mouth;









They just look like variations of this



We know they wore head gear - sometimes to an elaborate degree. Nothing in those statues says spacesuit to me.


lol,what? seriously..

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Post #: 376
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:51:28 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8287
Joined: 31/7/2008
The first two statues are the same, aren't they?

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Post #: 377
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:54:35 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

As for life out in the stars - I am sure that there is something, or many things out there. But I don't think they have visited here, and I don't think we will ever encounter intellgent life. Universe is just far too big to travel through.



Indeed but what if there is a more advanced species out there, we would never know as it would cause mass panic. We basically would need personal experience (ie. being visited) or take heed from what perhaps ou ancestors were trying to tell us. The Universe is a spectacular thing in that it has the added benefits of housing "Worm Holes" etc. and I'm sure a lot of other things that would make travelling through it easier than one would think.


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212
I just don't buy the Universe only housing ourselves as its soul form of life. We are a great race in regards to invention indeed, I just don't think we are the best/ smartest race out there.



The problem is we have no real basis for comparison - just because we exist, doesn't mean it is in any way probable that similarly intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe. For all we know, our mere existence could be one of the unlikeliest flukes in the history of the universe. And even though it's unimaginably vast, space is basically just that - space. The distances involved are beyond comprehension. I love the Bill Bryson quote from A Short History Of Nearly Everything:

“We may be only one of millions of advanced civilizations. Unfortunately, space being spacious, the average distance between any two of these civilizations is reckoned to be at least two hundred light-years, which is a great deal more than merely saying it makes it sound. It means for a start that even if these beings know we are here and are somehow able to see us in their telescopes, they're watching light that left Earth two hundred years ago. So, they're not seeing you and me. They're watching the French Revolution and Thomas Jefferson and people in silk stockings and powdered wigs--people who don't know what an atom is, or a gene, and who make their electricity by rubbing a rod of amber with a piece of fur and think that's quite a trick. Any message we receive from them is likely to begin "Dear Sire," and congratulate us on the handsomness of our horses and our mastery of whale oil. Two hundred light-years is a distance so far beyond us as to be, well, just beyond us.”



This is a good point and great quote. I guess I'm just a die hard believer and everyone will have their own beliefs at the end of the day.


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Post #: 378
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:57:01 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12191
Joined: 30/9/2005
I just assume that artists in the past were just as imaginative as they are today.

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Post #: 379
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 3:59:27 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
The first two statues I added are indeed the same, I believe. I wanted a two shot one of the same to see it close up and then not so much. You could argue that this was just the ancient's way of capturing their festival attire for all to see but it's just very coincidental that they were also making, what we would recognise as spacesuits and ships. Coming out of the sky no-less, in their art back then.

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Post #: 380
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 4:00:58 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

This is an interesting painting, of a man in what appears to be a space ship. How would one explain away that? Remember, they would of had no clue of anything remotely close to resembling this in their time.



Sorry the image isn't that good. It was the best I could find at the minute. This also came up in the documentary last night.


Here is the full image



The explaination here is simple - frescos such as this often had the sun and the moon at either side, and often these were represetened by the mythological gods. That is all we are seeing there. The sun is on the right of Jesus, the moon is on the left.

We need to not being our 20th century thinking into this - we see spaceship - 14th C people see sun and the moon.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 1/7/2012 4:02:18 PM >


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Post #: 381
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 4:03:50 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

lol,what? seriously..


So aliens coming to Earth or humans time travelling makes more sense than it simply being statues representing head gear which that culture was known to wear?

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Post #: 382
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 4:05:44 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14567
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

The first two statues I added are indeed the same, I believe. I wanted a two shot one of the same to see it close up and then not so much. You could argue that this was just the ancient's way of capturing their festival attire for all to see but it's just very coincidental that they were also making, what we would recognise as spacesuits and ships. Coming out of the sky no-less, in their art back then.



That's key, though, isn't it? It's what we now think of as spaceships or spacesuits, simply because we're basing our perceptions of those images on 200-odd years of popular culture that has essentially trained our minds to recognise that as a 'spaceship'.

It literally could be anything - it's only to our contemporary minds that they look like sleek spacesuits. To their eyes at the time, it could, and 99% likely is, something else entirely.

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RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 4:11:09 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Also thee olde people had great immaginations - by the time that many of these statues and paintings had been made, the Epic of Gilgamesh had already been carved.

Mankind didn't just suddenly gain an active immagination around the time of Jules Verne. It has been there from the early days, through ballads, poems tales of the gods and so on. Even if you don't believe that the Bible is the word of god it is still a pretty huge epic. More epic than most pieces of work produced today.

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Post #: 384
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 4:14:08 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4393
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

lol,what? seriously..


So aliens coming to Earth or humans time travelling makes more sense than it simply being statues representing head gear which that culture was known to wear?


But you said "nothing in those statues says spacesuit to me",when clearly visualy they look evidently similiar.
That was what I was getting at,I said nothing with regards to time travel or Aliens coming down to earth.
But I will say again that it is a extremely interesting/fascinating subject.

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Post #: 385
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 4:21:30 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

lol,what? seriously..


So aliens coming to Earth or humans time travelling makes more sense than it simply being statues representing head gear which that culture was known to wear?


But you said "nothing in those statues says spacesuit to me",when clearly visualy they look evidently similiar.
That was what I was getting at,I said nothing with regards to time travel or Aliens coming down to earth.
But I will say again that it is a extremely interesting/fascinating subject.


Well I don't - they look like helmets to me. It would be like if I posted a picture of a statue of a roman centurion and said it resembled a spacesuit. Context is everything.

As Matty said above, we are taking in at least 100 years worth of culture with us when viewing these images.

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Post #: 386
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 4:36:01 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8287
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

lol,what? seriously..


So aliens coming to Earth or humans time travelling makes more sense than it simply being statues representing head gear which that culture was known to wear?


But you said "nothing in those statues says spacesuit to me",when clearly visualy they look evidently similiar.
That was what I was getting at,I said nothing with regards to time travel or Aliens coming down to earth.
But I will say again that it is a extremely interesting/fascinating subject.


They also look like deep sea divers to me. And people wearing cardboard boxes on their head. And people wearing headdresses. You see what you want to see, it's evidence of nothing.

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Post #: 387
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 4:37:01 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I am basically Kyle here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Rjuuk6NAM

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 388
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 5:00:09 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
I'm a big fan of Ancient Aliens, I don't know how much of it is real and how much of it is bollocks but its still very entertaining. Plus anything that features Erich von Däniken is a good thing imo.

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Post #: 389
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 5:04:40 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
The Erich von Däniken stuff is so strange - no one REALLY took him seriously back in the 70s, but he seems to be held up as this great voice of the subject nowerdays. Having read Chariot of the Gods it is filled with the usual specalative nonsense which can be explained by experts in the actual fields of study.

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