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RE: UFO and the media - 9/5/2012 10:52:01 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1151
Joined: 2/4/2006
The problem I have with the UFOlogy movement isn't that I categorically refuse to believe extra terrestrial visitation has happened. Nor is it that there seems to be this belief amongst its advocates that there is a cover-up by a succession of governments since at least the middle of the 20th century. Both may be true.

My problem is the staggering lack of objectivity when addressing their evidence.

There are events which defy explanation by science as we understand it. This is because our understanding of science is incomplete, and yes when there are gaps in our knowledge it is reasonable for theorists to use a form of rigorous abductive reasoning to fill it.

Using the theoretical physics example used previously, there is the infamous Higgs Boson; which currently is a hypothetical particle, albeit closer than ever to being proved or disproved. I don't pretend know what it is or what it's supposed to do, but I do know that if and when it is found a handful of clever people will have a much clearer understanding of how the universe works. They will then have to simplify it so we mere plebs have a clue what the hell is going on.

However they don't stop there. The experimental physicists then take over and construct experiments to prove or disprove whether the theoretical physicists are right. The key thing here is if the experimental contradicts the theoretical, it is still seen as progress as the pool of wrong information gets smaller. Abductive reasoning is a useful tool in the process but it alone is not what strong theories are built on.

Compare the physicist's approach to that of your typical UFOlogists. In less enlightened times any strange light in the sky with no discernible explanation might have been classed as of alien origin. However all but the most rabid tin foil hat wearing conspiricist are perfectly happy to accept most of these sightings have a far more mundane explanation. Indeed not accepting this is what separates the tin foil hat brigade from the more reasoned UFOlogists.

So far so good then.

But here is where the trouble begins. By starting from this reasonable perspective they show they have the capacity for using some rigorous analysis of the evidence, which then invites the inference that all else they do must be equally reasonable. However, and I'm aware this is a massively sweeping generalisation, from my reading it tends not to be.

Pretty much all UFOlogists want for extra terrestrial visitation to be true; especially the hard-core element who have devoted their lives to it. This is not an environment where the detached application of objective reason does well.

This desire for something to be true tends to skew the interpretation of any evidence towards the result they expect to find. It also leads to the discarding of reasonable interpretations which go against their view without adequately examining them. Evidence which would disprove their version is not welcomed, as it is by any good scientist. It is marginalised or disregarded entirely. Sadly this often takes the form of conspiracy theory, which is, I suspect, why UFOlogists have a certain public image. If they were to spend as much of their resources gathering positive evidence as they do trying to discredit negative evidence we might be on to something.

The short version is people see what they want to see. If you are looking for aliens you'll find aliens in the lacunae. Those who are looking for affirmation of their faith might have seen an angel instead; hell if people flock to look see a miraculous crisp which looks a bit like Jesus from a certain angle it is not hard to believe they could look at an unexplained light in the sky and see a miracle.

Both versions are equally valid in my view: that is to say equally flawed. Both rely on faith over reason, and both get by because as much as there is no conclusive evidence to prove they are right, there is also no evidence to conclusively prove them wrong.

I'm not arrogant enough to state they are wrong. After all absence of proof is not proof of absence. I will say that I have never seen anything remarkable enough to make a believer out of me.


(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 331
RE: UFO and the media - 9/5/2012 11:33:36 AM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6274
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
Nice post DPP - said what I was thinking, but with much more eloquence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

The short version is people see what they want to see. If you are looking for aliens you'll find aliens in the lacunae. Those who are looking for affirmation of their faith might have seen an angel instead; hell if people flock to look see a miraculous crisp which looks a bit like Jesus from a certain angle it is not hard to believe they could look at an unexplained light in the sky and see a miracle.



Wonder what those guys made of this:





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(in reply to Dpp1978)
Post #: 332
RE: UFO and the media - 9/5/2012 11:38:07 AM   
Chief


Posts: 7746
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

As for the Belgian 1990 case. As I've said before. There is a possibility that it was some sort of experimental UAV/UCAV. There may have been radar jamming which can create spurious contacts and electromagnetic interference had been considered. But to jam numerous radars over a large area would require one powerful jammer. Furthermore, there were numerous witnesses both Gendarmerie (police) and civilians who had seen unknown triangular craft exhibiting unusual behaviour. In addition to seeing lights near the F-16s which were moving around erratically. Now, you can utterly dismiss eyewitness testimony as being unreliable or false. But I would have to wonder about a country's police force if a number of their officers admitting to seeing large triangular hovering craft, shooting down beams of lights and sending out a floating red ball.



This is the bit that gets me. You'd rather believe it was aliens than something developed to fool 70 year old tech.

(in reply to Emyr Thy King)
Post #: 333
RE: UFO and the media - 9/5/2012 1:05:13 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4658
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King
But to jam numerous radars over a large area would require one powerful jammer.


This is the bit that gets me. You'd rather believe it was aliens than something developed to fool 70 year old tech.


Bon Maman Strawberry?

Jerry Garcia?

(I hope that double joke is appreciated by others as much as I appreciate my own brilliance........)

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Post #: 334
RE: UFO and the media - 9/5/2012 4:36:59 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2174
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy
quote:



ab·surd   /ębˈsɜrd, -ˈzɜrd/ Show Spelled[ab-surd, -zurd] 
adjective
1.
utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish   
 Nope, seems about right to me!


What I was trying to say originally was in the same way theoretical science seeks to explain the 'unknown' (albeit with a greater volume of data), postulating about the ETH is based on the same rationale -- attempting to explain phenomena we don't yet fully understand -- but without any concrete proof. Of course I got my terminology mixed up a little but that was the gyst of what I was saying. So when I read "absurd" it's a more charged term than if you simply said "inaccurate/false" - again in a David Starkey "GOSH!! What's the matter with you! Are you insane?!" as he sort of did the last time he was on Question Time! I just took it to be a bit more personal, perhaps I'm wrong. Hopefully I won't get 'tattooed' with it next time .


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigKovacs
The problem is UFOs are just that, unidentified. It doesn't matter how many strange radar reports we get or what calibre of witness accounts are brought forward, unless they actually record something confirming that the UFOs are alien then it's just assumption until evidence is found.


Sure and I can't really dispute that position and it was an error in denotation on my part for not clearly making enough of a distinction among theories, hypotheses, assumptions and so forth. However, whilst the only 'empirical' data I can think of would be radar and perhaps certain videographical footage such as high-resolution FLIR cameras (1); I don't think we should discount all eyewitness evidence on that basis. It cannot be tested sure, and considering the nature of the phenomenon which cannot be 'induced' or re-created in a lab and happens completely randomly then there is limited scope here at the moment. Again I don't put forward the idea that eyewitness testimony provides proof or hard evidence of the ETH. I think some at least are compelling that may suggest it has happened and is still happening. The performance envelope of these alleged objects as reported by various pilot testimony would suggest a craft(s) with incredible performance capabilities. And if they're not embellishing, exaggerating nor fabricating such accounts and are accurate in their observations. Then we're either dealing with quite a leap forward in aviation technology or it's not of this Earth. I really can't think of what else it could be if these reports are genuine and accurate.

1. Radar can malfunction and there are such things as spurious contacts. Not to mention ECM or ELINT which can 'fool' enemy radars. In addition, visual effects technology has advanced to a level where practically anything can be created on video or indeed photographically. So it's a very difficult area to navigate and clearly there are a number of caveats to consider.

Dpp1978, some great points there . I willingly admit that deep down I "want" to see something unusual which may have the inference of being of E.T in origin, I think most would. Although I think that's born from a frustration with a lack of serious investigation into the phenomenon and the assumption by some that the fringe element speaks for all that are at least open to the ETH. You may have heard of the Condon Report? The report or committee was chaired by the physicist Edward Condon. I think the study took place between 1966-1968, which looked at cases from Project Blue Book and elsewhere. About a year or so before the report was due to be published. He had publicly said that he thought it was a waste of time and that the whole subject was ridiculous. Almost predetermining the outcome of the report before it had been fully completed. Even though approximately 29% of the cases remained unexplained. There was actually a thorough investigation done in the report but its chair seemingly didn't want to acknowledge or recognise the percentage of unexplained cases. Now of course that isn't proof of E.T visitation. But to be so dismissive of the subject without further objective inquiry is surely equally as harmful to the subject? This is something that isn't really touched upon. And instead the sole focus is on those who make outlandish claims (i.e. "I went up in their spaceship for an orgy") or who adopt a dogmatic "E.T only" answer fits. Yet we can see this behaviour on the other side of the argument. So we're only addressing one half of the problem.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

As for the Belgian 1990 case. As I've said before. There is a possibility that it was some sort of experimental UAV/UCAV. There may have been radar jamming which can create spurious contacts and electromagnetic interference had been considered. But to jam numerous radars over a large area would require one powerful jammer. Furthermore, there were numerous witnesses both Gendarmerie (police) and civilians who had seen unknown triangular craft exhibiting unusual behaviour. In addition to seeing lights near the F-16s which were moving around erratically. Now, you can utterly dismiss eyewitness testimony as being unreliable or false. But I would have to wonder about a country's police force if a number of their officers admitting to seeing large triangular hovering craft, shooting down beams of lights and sending out a floating red ball.



This is the bit that gets me. You'd rather believe it was aliens than something developed to fool 70 year old tech.


No, a bit of grapeshot there. I'm simply addressing some caveats about it being a UAV/UCAV or test aircraft. As there are certain peculiarities.

I've said this previously:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King
Experimental military aircraft would be the likeliest explanation. I wonder how we would have made such a leap in technologly given the aircraft's reported/purported flight characteristics. Accelerating from 150 to 500 knots in a few seconds, in addition to at one point travelling at 1010 knots is an incredible development in aviation technology. As I said before, it could've been some radar defect or atmospheric anomaly but there's countless eye witnesses in addition to ground radar stations which tracked the alleged object. Also the craft responded to radar lock-ons which is unusual and would suggest that it wasn't some technical error or atmospheric anomaly.


Link

I'm merely proposing that we be open to the idea that it could've been E.T.

ECM/ELINT, a subset of that being radar jamming has been around since the Second World War, so it's nothing new. My point not being whether radar jamming is possible (we again used it at least once in the Falklands War with the Operation Black Buck raids) but whether one could simultaneously jam the radars of two F-16s and two other ground radar stations (CRC at Glons and Traffic Control at Semmerzake). With multiple craft it would be possible and at least one report by the Gendarmerie on the ground stated they could see a second triangular craft at one point. But if this was to test these black triangular craft against the latest NATO radars and fighter aircraft. Why over the open skies of Belgium and not in a far more controlled and secure setting? The police officers who claimed they had a sighting probably didn't have enough time to drive to Amsterdam, have a few tokes of a 'spliff' then make their way back, if they were hallucinating or lying. There are a number of other reports by civilians which corroborate the shape and behaviour of the craft. Still, it's unexplained.

There's a few interesting documentaries I've come across:

Out of the Blue (James Fox)

Dpp and anyone else who's interested, vis-ą-vis the Condon Report fast-forward to 1:13:11.

I Know What I Saw (James Fox)

It's a follow-on from OutB and it does use some of the same stories and footage but it also features other cases, some of them fairly recent. They're both well worth a watch.

I think this may be of interest too:

UFOEncounters-J.Alan Hynek

It encompasses the 'UFO phenomenon' with regards to alleged alien abductions. Whether you put any stock in them or not. It takes an interesting look at the power of suggestion, hypnosis and human psychology.

The following two may be of particular interest:

Britian's Closest Encounters - Berwyn Mountain Incident (Channel 5) (aka "Roswelsh" )

The following documentary is pretty much a counter-argument to the above documentary:

The Berwyn UFO Cover Up Exposed

< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 10/5/2012 12:27:03 AM >


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Post #: 335
RE: UFO and the media - 9/5/2012 4:41:17 PM   
Chief


Posts: 7746
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee
You've convinced me, I'm surprised commercial airlines get anything done with all those flying saucers going about.

(in reply to Dpp1978)
Post #: 336
RE: UFO and the media - 9/5/2012 4:58:40 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2174
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
I take it that was a reply to me? If it's that easy, I'll try something else. Two sugars with milk.

Actually there have been concerns expressed about air safety seeing as in one case. An aircraft's autopilot malfunctioned and it veered towards an object. Not to mention a fair number of alleged aerial encounters are at very close range where a mid-air collision could happen if these objects weren't so fast and manoeuvrable. Near misses regardless of what the craft is would be a matter of air safety. It's actually addressed in Leslie Kean's book. It's definitely wheat-fibrous rather than chaff (i.e. no tin-foil).

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy
Wonder what those guys made of this:






They probably thought it's not your best side to be honest.

Going from ultimate fugly orifices to unidentified flying objects/unidentified aerial phenomena, here's a link about the COMETA report commissioned in the late 1990's about the subject:

COMETA

May be of interest no matter what your persuasion is.

< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 10/5/2012 12:33:48 AM >


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Post #: 337
RE: UFO and the media - 11/5/2012 11:49:55 PM   
BigKovacs


Posts: 3187
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Textile Street.
Again it doesn't matter how many radars are screwed or how many witnesses come forward regardless of their credibility, all they can confirm is that they've seen a
UFO, there's nothing there to say that its alien despite the objects strange behaviour.

Another problem surfaces when UFOs are claimed to be of alien origin, and that's the existence or aliens themselves. Whilst I personally believe that aliens are statistically probable that's a very flimsy bit of speculation in itself so to presume that not only do aliens exists but they have/are visiting us now is basically a lap of fancy.

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Post #: 338
RE: UFO and the media - 12/5/2012 1:23:14 AM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2174
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
In many cases, these UFOs are noted to perform extreme aerial manoeuvres. Manoeuvres at such an acceleration, speed and rate of climb/descent that it would kill a human pilot. Not to mention that no known aircraft can perform such feats. By definition something alien if it doesn't conform to our laws of aerodynamics. Now this doesn't preclude the possibility they are drones and therefore ours (although what sort of propulsion?). And of course one should go for the most plausible explanation. If it can be established that such reports are accurate and again I'm talking of structured craft here not random lights in the sky. The implication is they're terrestrial or they're 'extra-terrestrial' (which doesn't necessarily mean another star system). Without further serious study, we'll never be able to answer that question or at least come close to answering it. And frankly with numerous reports of silent craft that can shoot off at incredible speeds with no air disturbance, I think it would be total ignorance not to investigate further. Perhaps mass delusions or compulsive lying are to blame..

And I get your position, radar is fallible and you don't trust any eyewitness testimony. Individuals such as Dr. Chris French are leading figures in reliability of testimony, power of suggestion and things such as pareidolia - who would have us believe that all eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable. However, there are a number of highly unusual sightings by quite credible individuals. As I've said before, I simply think their sightings ought to be investigated far more thoroughly.

At the same time, given the number of estimated stars within our galaxy, and the number of galaxies within the universe. Particularly ones that have stars which are similar to our Sun. I don't see how one could consider the Earth would be the only planet to harbour 'advanced' organisms. Arthur C. Clarke put it best when he said "Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the idea is quite staggering.” Personally it's a flimsy bit of speculation whichever one you believe in.

< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 13/5/2012 11:24:26 PM >


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"This whole imbroglio is epiphenomenal"...."demigogic faux egalitarianism" - Will Self

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Post #: 339
RE: UFO and the media - 17/6/2012 12:48:20 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Millenium Falcon found at the bottom of the sea!



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160297/Pictured-The-UFO-shaped-object-the-Baltic-Sea--covered-soot-little-fireplaces-lying-end-1-000ft-runway.html#comments

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Post #: 340
RE: UFO and the media - 17/6/2012 12:49:46 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Millenium Falcon found at the bottom of the sea!



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160297/Pictured-The-UFO-shaped-object-the-Baltic-Sea--covered-soot-little-fireplaces-lying-end-1-000ft-runway.html#comments



Wow! Ace link Fluke, thanks for that.


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Art

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Post #: 341
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 12:11:22 AM   
donethinking


Posts: 431
Joined: 24/4/2012
From: Haggisland
i believe its possible aliens could exist but until i get one in a headlock they dont.

(in reply to NinjaShortbread212)
Post #: 342
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 3:20:46 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15397
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Well, there is life on other planets (although, it's probably just bacteria) but it would be alien to us, so on that basis, I'm saying aliens exist

(in reply to donethinking)
Post #: 343
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 8:11:08 AM   
donethinking


Posts: 431
Joined: 24/4/2012
From: Haggisland
thats another thing, why did we spend billions sending a probe to mars ? just to see if there's some bacteria there ?
massive waste of money if you ask me

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 344
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 9:17:07 AM   
BigKovacs


Posts: 3187
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Textile Street.
We can only hypothesise that there is life on other planets, by physically finding alien bacteria the existence of aliens would then become a reality. Granted, little things in a dish aren't as cool as dudes with ray guns and seven eyes but it would be a huge leap in our understanding of the universe.

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Post #: 345
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 10:46:29 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8054
Joined: 31/7/2008
The point isn't really if there is life out there. Of course there is, bacteria don't need a whole lot to grow and they can be almost indestructible. The issue is if there is intelligent life out there, and so far there's no reason to assume there is.

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Post #: 346
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 11:52:47 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4193
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Right now I'm not sure there's intelligent life on this forum.

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Post #: 347
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 11:54:33 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8054
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Right now I'm not sure there's intelligent life on this forum.


This is about my Adam Sandler list, isn't it?

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Post #: 348
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 12:05:17 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4193
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Right now I'm not sure there's intelligent life on this forum.


This is about my Adam Sandler list, isn't it?




Actually I'm just adapting a quote from my favourite sitcom during an episode that featured the same subject.

If anyone guesses what it is they win a packet of these:




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"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

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Post #: 349
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 12:40:46 PM   
BigKovacs


Posts: 3187
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Textile Street.

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

The point isn't really if there is life out there. Of course there is, bacteria don't need a whole lot to grow and they can be almost indestructible.


I agree but that's still a big claim and considerable proof is still needed to back it up.

quote:

The issue is if there is intelligent life out there, and so far there's no reason to assume there is.


There is, it's us. We're proof that intelligent life is capable of evolving in the universe and there are other solar solar systems out there that have some similar traits to ours. So it can be argued that it's possible but to say that is probable is an epic leap and by studying life as base as alien bacteria may give us a better insight as to how other life forms survive under such different conditions.

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Post #: 350
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 1:02:12 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8054
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigKovacs


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

The point isn't really if there is life out there. Of course there is, bacteria don't need a whole lot to grow and they can be almost indestructible.


I agree but that's still a big claim and considerable proof is still needed to back it up.


I may be wrong, but didn't they find fossilised bacteria in samples brought back from Mars? I'm sure I read that, and in which case that is proof. From what we currently know, find water and you'll probably find (microbial) life.

quote:


quote:

The issue is if there is intelligent life out there, and so far there's no reason to assume there is.


There is, it's us. We're proof that intelligent life is capable of evolving in the universe and there are other solar solar systems out there that have some similar traits to ours. So it can be argued that it's possible but to say that is probable is an epic leap and by studying life as base as alien bacteria may give us a better insight as to how other life forms survive under such different conditions.


Well of course, but given the subject title of this thread I was referring to extraterrestrial intelligent life, of the kind that apparently joyrides around the skies of America and Europe managing to neither avoid detection nor leave proof of their existence


(in reply to BigKovacs)
Post #: 351
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 4:52:29 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
100% there's life out there - whether it's turned up here to probe people's anuses is another matter though

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 352
RE: UFO and the media - 24/6/2012 5:44:53 PM   
Saltire


Posts: 1973
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee

quote:

ORIGINAL: donethinking

thats another thing, why did we spend billions sending a probe to mars ? just to see if there's some bacteria there ?
massive waste of money if you ask me


I'd rather the money went into things like that where you are furthering mankind's knowledge, over the colossal needlessly high budgets the militaries get.

(in reply to donethinking)
Post #: 353
RE: UFO and the media - 25/6/2012 7:18:47 PM   
BigKovacs


Posts: 3187
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Textile Street.
quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigKovacs


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

The point isn't really if there is life out there. Of course there is, bacteria don't need a whole lot to grow and they can be almost indestructible.


I agree but that's still a big claim and considerable proof is still needed to back it up.


I may be wrong, but didn't they find fossilised bacteria in samples brought back from Mars? I'm sure I read that, and in which case that is proof. From what we currently know, find water and you'll probably find (microbial) life.


Cool, I hadn't heard that. I'd still like it if we could get hold of some living bacteria but that's an awesome find.

quote:


quote:

The issue is if there is intelligent life out there, and so far there's no reason to assume there is.


There is, it's us. We're proof that intelligent life is capable of evolving in the universe and there are other solar solar systems out there that have some similar traits to ours. So it can be argued that it's possible but to say that is probable is an epic leap and by studying life as base as alien bacteria may give us a better insight as to how other life forms survive under such different conditions.


quote:

Well of course, but given the subject title of this thread I was referring to extraterrestrial intelligent life, of the kind that apparently joyrides around the skies of America and Europe managing to neither avoid detection nor leave proof of their existence




Ah, gotcha and I agree.


< Message edited by BigKovacs -- 25/6/2012 7:20:04 PM >


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Post #: 354
RE: UFO and the media - 25/6/2012 7:58:45 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1151
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


I may be wrong, but didn't they find fossilised bacteria in samples brought back from Mars? I'm sure I read that, and in which case that is proof. From what we currently know, find water and you'll probably find (microbial) life.



If I remember correctly it was a meteorite of Martian origin which had microscopic features which could be fossilised bacteria; that is to say they were consistent in appearance with what scientists would expect fossilised bacteria to look like. Other scientists remain sceptical and think there could be other more mundane explanations.

Obviously if you want hard evidence of extra-terrestrial life it is about as good as it gets at present. And it is a damn site better than blurry videos of lights in the sky or Jimmy-bob's first hand account of how he was abducted and probed by little green or grey men.

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Post #: 355
RE: UFO and the media - 26/6/2012 1:57:37 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
With the 100 billion suns per galaxy x 100 billion galaxies stat I think we have to consider a very serious possibility - that there are advanced civilisations out there partaking in space wars!!!!!

(in reply to Dpp1978)
Post #: 356
RE: UFO and the media - 26/6/2012 1:58:35 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

With the 100 billion suns per galaxy x 100 billion galaxies stat I think we have to consider a very serious possibility - that there are advanced civilisations out there partaking in space wars!!!!!



Couldn't agree more.


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Art

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 357
RE: UFO and the media - 27/6/2012 1:01:14 AM   
Saltire


Posts: 1973
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee
quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

With the 100 billion suns per galaxy x 100 billion galaxies stat I think we have to consider a very serious possibility - that there are advanced civilisations out there partaking in space wars!!!!!



Couldn't agree more.



Me too, theres the famous Drake Equation also to work things out about how many civilisations there could potentially be. However, like any equation, you can manipulate it in such a way as to have billions of them or none - including us, meaning we dont exist!?! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

(in reply to NinjaShortbread212)
Post #: 358
RE: UFO and the media - 27/6/2012 12:01:37 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
There's bound to be some advanced aliens out there - but they will not look like us, they could actually be advanced versions of animals we see on earth depending on the environment, alien sharks, squid, birds etc. - either way if we saw one we would probably shit ourselves. Unless by pure chance they are hot amazonian women from a dying race needing to be impregnated to keep their species alive

(in reply to Saltire)
Post #: 359
RE: UFO and the media - 1/7/2012 2:42:45 AM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
Watched a really interesting and in-depth programme on UFO's and ancient civilisations tonight. Maybe Spaldy will jump in with the link, as I can't quite remember the title but it was on for ages and really opened up your mind about, well... everything! I'll pin reference to one point, when the topic was veered toward an old statue they had found and of what appeared to be of a homosapien in a space suit, something that is thousands of years old, yet they were shown to be wearing a space suit!!! The relevance of the statue was that these were the ancient civilisations interpretation of what they had witnessed "coming from the skies" to visit them.

Although I've seen said statue (or at least ones similar) before, the people narrating the programme, pretty much came to the conclusion that perhaps those people they were capturing in statue form back then, were quite possibly time travellers and although that was back in the biblical days, they were actually visiting us from the future, with what we would describe as modern technology today. Some of the statues even had what appeared to be wrist watches on them. Time travel is something that had happened from not just time travel alone but going through "Worm Holes" also to get here.



Mind blow.

< Message edited by NinjaShortbread212 -- 1/7/2012 2:47:27 AM >


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Art

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 360
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