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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 29/7/2010 1:33:34 PM   
theieuan


Posts: 282
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From: Llanelli
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

This is pretty frakking cool.






This is brilliant. It helps to clear up a lot of things

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 29/7/2010 11:04:38 PM   
BOHEMIANBOB


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Not really

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 29/7/2010 11:06:38 PM   
juanvasquez


Posts: 7631
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From: The cupboard under the stairs
Aye, I thought the levels were clearly explained.

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Post #: 213
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 1/8/2010 6:06:44 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
Great to see the film at number one for a third week running in the US.

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Post #: 214
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 3/8/2010 1:43:31 AM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
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From: Chelsea Hotel #2
Isn't the score great?

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 3/8/2010 6:10:49 PM   
bad hat harry


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Post #: 216
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 3/8/2010 9:04:53 PM   
winkmole

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 28/7/2007
 If not Nolan's most personnel movie( I haven't seen following) it deals most personally with his most common theme in nearly all his movies, the loss of a loved one or the death of a relationship. In all his movies bar insomnia the protagonist loses the love of his life, memento, the prestige, the dark knight and now inception. They share even more common parallels as in all the protagonist is in some way culpable in their death, two sides two every break-up. In memento his wife tests him with the repeated insulin tests and he fails, in the prestige the woman dies performing a trick with him he was the magician supposed to be in control, in the dark knight Rachel is killed because batman shows the joker he cares for her and in inception Cobb plants the idea of death being the only way to escape the dream world as waking up is not possible.

I think it is pretty clear that it is all a dream. In the movie Cobb is the only one who offers any back-story also think about page's character she never tells us anything about herself she becomes obsessed with Cobb. He is the hero, the best architect, the only person who has done an inception.
I think the dream within a dream is the most interesting thing in the movie, that you live out an entire lifetime with someone and then just wake up and be young again and do it all over again, but Nolan seems to refute this state as heaven that really all you are doing is living in a fantasy world that is just a shade, a pale imitation of the complex real world.  For me this shares parallels with themes of the prestige "you want to be fooled" but stated more explicitly here. Escaping into a fantasy world is fine but you should never want to live there.

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Post #: 217
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 4/8/2010 4:47:12 PM   
paul.mccluskey


Posts: 5173
Joined: 15/4/2007
From: Port Glasgow, Scotland, UK
quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86

Isn't the score great?


Sure is. The contributions from Johnny Marr make it more awesome.

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Post #: 218
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 5/8/2010 9:24:08 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2494
Joined: 11/2/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: MOTH

Level 1: Plane (Reality) Kick: none, sedative runs out

Level 2: Van (dreamt by Yusuf) Kick: Van hits water (All go into dream)

Level 3: Hotel (dreamt by Arthur) Kick: Elevator (All except Yusuf go)

Level 4: Snow (dreamt by Eames) Kick: Building explodes (All except Arthur, Yusuf go)

Level 5: Cobb's world (dreamt by Cobb) Kick : Falling (Only Cobb, Ariadne, Fischer go)

Level 6: Limbo (no dream, Saito and Cobb there because they died: Saito in Level 4, Cobb in Level 5) Kick: Death (implied)


Saw it last night and the above structure is exactly how I unterstood it except for one difference:

Cobb doesn't die on Level 5, he dies on level 2. He drowns in the van after everybody else gets out. That's why he wakes up in water as he arrives in Limbo. So in fact Cobb dies after Saito and that's why he is so much younger.


A more general observation of mine about the film:

I think Nolan pulls of an actual inception with the audience as described in the film.

During the first part he sometimes makes you wonder if the real world is actually real. The narrowing walls, the aprupt change of locations and the fuzzy logic of the whole process of dream invasion. He never gives any clear clues, just hints. This is the little thought of "is this real?" that keeps growing in the viewer's mind over time.

Take the night scene of Tokyo for example: you see skyscrapers and what looks to be the Eiffel Tower. Now, there is in fact a replica of the Eiffel Tower in Tokyo but it somehow throws you off for a second. It doesn't help either that one of the very next scenes takes place in Paris with the actual Eiffel Tower visible in some shots.

At the end of the film all it takes to convince us is the picture of a spinning top.

Bravo, Mr Nolan. The inception was successful!

< Message edited by grucl -- 5/8/2010 10:31:55 AM >

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Post #: 219
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 5/8/2010 9:41:59 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2494
Joined: 11/2/2008
Oh, and about the kids wearing the same clothes throughout the film.

Here is what the film's costume designer Jeffrey Kurland has to say about this:

quote:

COF:
How much does costume reflect the inner machinations of the plot, particularly in a film such as Inception? For example, Cobb's children are wearing the same clothes at the end of the story as they are in his dream 'memory' throughout the film. Is there something to be interpreted here?
 
JK:
Costume design reflects greatly on the movement of the plot, most significantly through character development. Character development is at the forefront of costume design. The characters move the story along and with the director and the actor the costume designer helps to set the film's emotional tone in a visual way. In a more physical sense the costumes' style and color help to keep the story on track, keeping a check on time and place.

On to the second part of your question, the children's clothing is different in the final scene… look again…

 
http://clothesonfilm.com/inception-jeffrey-kurland-costume-qa/14317/


 

< Message edited by grucl -- 5/8/2010 9:42:29 AM >

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Post #: 220
Inception - 7/8/2010 9:12:58 AM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9281
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
Did Christopher Nolan steal the idea from an Uncle Scrooge comic? Check out this article on Joblo.com

http://www.joblo.com/did-christopher-nolan-get-the-idea-for-inception-from-an-uncle-scrooge-comic

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Post #: 221
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 7/8/2010 9:34:38 AM   
redpaw

 

Posts: 146
Joined: 28/3/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MOTH

Level 1: Plane (Reality) Kick: none, sedative runs out

Level 2: Van (dreamt by Yusuf) Kick: Van hits water (All go into dream)

Level 3: Hotel (dreamt by Arthur) Kick: Elevator (All except Yusuf go)

Level 4: Snow (dreamt by Eames) Kick: Building explodes (All except Arthur, Yusuf go)

Level 5: Cobb's world (dreamt by Cobb) Kick : Falling (Only Cobb, Ariadne, Fischer go)

Level 6: Limbo (no dream, Saito and Cobb there because they died: Saito in Level 4, Cobb in Level 5) Kick: Death (implied)


Saw it last night and the above structure is exactly how I unterstood it except for one difference:

Cobb doesn't die on Level 5, he dies on level 2. He drowns in the van after everybody else gets out. That's why he wakes up in water as he arrives in Limbo. So in fact Cobb dies after Saito and that's why he is so much younger.


A more general observation of mine about the film:

I think Nolan pulls of an actual inception with the audience as described in the film.

During the first part he sometimes makes you wonder if the real world is actually real. The narrowing walls, the aprupt change of locations and the fuzzy logic of the whole process of dream invasion. He never gives any clear clues, just hints. This is the little thought of "is this real?" that keeps growing in the viewer's mind over time.

Take the night scene of Tokyo for example: you see skyscrapers and what looks to be the Eiffel Tower. Now, there is in fact a replica of the Eiffel Tower in Tokyo but it somehow throws you off for a second. It doesn't help either that one of the very next scenes takes place in Paris with the actual Eiffel Tower visible in some shots.

At the end of the film all it takes to convince us is the picture of a spinning top.

Bravo, Mr Nolan. The inception was successful!


Ah, this is interesting. Going along with what you said, if it is all a dream then Cobb is everyone of these characters, which, is why we don't learn much about them since he can't fully imagine up people with all their complexity. So, when Cobb spins the top at the end and he walks away, he doesn't see nor care if it topples over or not because he rejoins his kids. But Michael Caine walks in and presumably he sees the top. But Caine IS Cobb! Not only that, but maybe we the audience are also Cobb too! Since he has to imagine up scenes that don't actually involve him. Cobb experiences these events through US! Like for example the crucial scene with the guy explaining about the top to Paige's character. I'm not sure where I'm going with this but it's all very interesting I think...

-- Haven't thought about Inception for a while so I'm a little out of touch with it - can't even remember the characters names...!

(in reply to grucl)
Post #: 222
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 7/8/2010 9:48:40 PM   
juanvasquez


Posts: 7631
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: The cupboard under the stairs
Saw this at the IMAX today. Was fucking immense. Brilliant film made even better by a massive screen. The action was even more amazing!

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Post #: 223
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 7/8/2010 10:53:13 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester
Told you, Jean. 

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Post #: 224
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 9/8/2010 1:25:44 PM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2494
Joined: 11/2/2008
So, what do you think?

A) the basic plot level is reality
B) the basic plot level is an induced dream of some sort in order to perform an inception with Cobb (i.e. dream sharing is possible)
C) the basic plot level is a random dream that Cobb is dreaming (i.e. dream sharing is a figment of Cobb's imagination)

Personally, I think it's A.

C would be pretty stupid because everything that happens in the film would be meaningless as soon as Cobb wakes up.

B is possible but would be very tricky to pull off within the rules of the film. If the basic plot level is the first dream level, they would be 5 dreams deep by the end (and they state that 3 levels is already very difficult to pull off).

< Message edited by grucl -- 9/8/2010 1:27:26 PM >

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Post #: 225
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 9/8/2010 1:27:58 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

So, what do you think?

A) the basic plot level is reality
B) the basic plot level is an induced dream of some sort in order to perform an inception with Cobb (i.e. dream sharing is possible)
C) the basic plot level is a random dream that Cobb is dreaming (i.e. dream sharing is a figment of Cobb's imagination)

Personally, I think it's A.

C would be pretty stupid because everything that happens in the film would be meaningless as soon as Cobb wakes up.

B is possible but would be very tricky to pull off within the rules of the film. If the basic plot level is the first dream level, they would be 5 dreams deep by the end (and they state that 3 levels is already very difficult to pull off).


Why would C be meaningless?

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Post #: 226
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 9/8/2010 1:45:50 PM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2494
Joined: 11/2/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

So, what do you think?

A) the basic plot level is reality
B) the basic plot level is an induced dream of some sort in order to perform an inception with Cobb (i.e. dream sharing is possible)
C) the basic plot level is a random dream that Cobb is dreaming (i.e. dream sharing is a figment of Cobb's imagination)

Personally, I think it's A.

C would be pretty stupid because everything that happens in the film would be meaningless as soon as Cobb wakes up.

B is possible but would be very tricky to pull off within the rules of the film. If the basic plot level is the first dream level, they would be 5 dreams deep by the end (and they state that 3 levels is already very difficult to pull off).


Why would C be meaningless?


If dream sharing isn't the source of Cobb's dream then what we witness could be just some random rubbish he dreams up one night after eating too much cheese. The outcome would be irrelevant since it was only a dream. Cobb wakes up in the morning and goes to work selling used cars.

If Inception can be interpreted as a random dream then so can almost every other film ever made.

Unless, of course, it was Nolan's intention to make a comment on how similar dream logic and film logic are. Which would make it genius again...

< Message edited by grucl -- 9/8/2010 1:48:42 PM >

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Post #: 227
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 9/8/2010 1:54:14 PM   
Invader_Ace


Posts: 1588
Joined: 31/7/2008
No-one has mentioned one of the most awe inspiring things in this film yet.

The Suits.

I wanted JGL's entire wardrobe.

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Post #: 228
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 9/8/2010 2:13:24 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

So, what do you think?

A) the basic plot level is reality
B) the basic plot level is an induced dream of some sort in order to perform an inception with Cobb (i.e. dream sharing is possible)
C) the basic plot level is a random dream that Cobb is dreaming (i.e. dream sharing is a figment of Cobb's imagination)

Personally, I think it's A.

C would be pretty stupid because everything that happens in the film would be meaningless as soon as Cobb wakes up.

B is possible but would be very tricky to pull off within the rules of the film. If the basic plot level is the first dream level, they would be 5 dreams deep by the end (and they state that 3 levels is already very difficult to pull off).


Why would C be meaningless?


If dream sharing isn't the source of Cobb's dream then what we witness could be just some random rubbish he dreams up one night after eating too much cheese. The outcome would be irrelevant since it was only a dream. Cobb wakes up in the morning and goes to work selling used cars.

If Inception can be interpreted as a random dream then so can almost every other film ever made.

Unless, of course, it was Nolan's intention to make a comment on how similar dream logic and film logic are. Which would make it genius again...


It pretty much is. Leo's speech to Page at the cafe is all about how film editing works and how the audience functions when watching a movie.

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Post #: 229
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 9/8/2010 2:37:12 PM   
Gimli The Dwarf


Posts: 78034
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From: Central Park Zoo
How are dream logic and film logic the same?


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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 9/8/2010 2:46:59 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gimli The Dwarf

How are dream logic and film logic the same?



Well, as I said, in that particular conversation they were talking about editing.

The film cuts from them talking on the roof to sitting in a cafe. Film logic means that as an audience we don't question the cut, and fill in the blanks ourselves as to how they got there. In other scenes we cut to new locations and meet people we haven't seen before. This is normal film logic.

When Leo asks Page is she remembers how she got to the cafe...she doesn't. Much like the audience doesn't either. But both fill in the blanks in their own way.

At one layer Inception is very much a film about film making process itself, and how films can implant ideas and inspiration.

As has been said before - you can see Fischer as representing a film audience, Cobb as the director, Page as the writer, Saito as the producer on set (the money man)...and so on and so forth.

The emotional reaction that Fischer has is extremely hard to do, impossible for most. Much like in film making - the number of movies when can create an honest to god genuine emotional reaction are very rare.

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Post #: 231
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 10/8/2010 1:54:54 PM   
Clarence Worley


Posts: 586
Joined: 30/9/2005
Im curious, and was wondering if anyone could answer - the hotel 'level' all takes place in a non gravity esque scenario. As this is the case, how comes the elevator is able to drop with the velocity to 'kick' them if their is no gravity? Im probably just missing something, and absolutely love the film, think its fantastic - but this part slightly bothers me!

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 10/8/2010 2:25:25 PM   
shool


Posts: 10159
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From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
Didnt Arthur use the explosives to push the elevator downwards?

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Post #: 233
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 10/8/2010 6:08:20 PM   
Clarence Worley


Posts: 586
Joined: 30/9/2005
I still would have thought the lack of gravity would have impacted it actually moving though? (i dont mean not moving at all, moreso moving at a speed that would have jolted/kicked them I could be totally wrong!)

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Post #: 234
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 11/8/2010 1:39:06 PM   
chod burger


Posts: 298
Joined: 6/9/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gretzky

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf


quote:

ORIGINAL: juanvasquez
In Mombasa, when Cobb meets Eames in the casino, he picks up one of his chips, and says 'you never could spell properly'. Is it Eames' casino, or are they in Eams' dream?



was wondering about this. It was definitely a dream - when Cobb goes into the food hall and that guy starts shouting at him, you can see everyone looking at him, which means he was in someone else's subconscious. The only problem is trying to figure out whose subconscious (Eames? Saito?) he was in, and why... my head hurts.

Unrelated theory: I reckon Saito was a construct of Cobb's subconscious, a "forgery" like Fischer's godfather, which allowed Cobb to work through his guilt issues (hence the multiple references to catharsis throughout) or something. Probably explaining why Saito shared a number of lines with Mol.


I think it's another moment of 'tomfoolery' by Nolan in putting little red herrings along the way (like the closing walls). I put the bad spelling down to Eames being a forger in reality too, and hence Cobb is noticing this and relating it. If we were to be strict (which in this case isn't easy!), we see Eames speaking to the tail when Cobbs has already left which doesn't follow dream convention...



Am i the only one that thought Eames had made (forged!) some fake chips to use in the casino and spelt the name of the casino wrong or something??

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Post #: 235
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 11/8/2010 1:43:43 PM   
chod burger


Posts: 298
Joined: 6/9/2006
Ok something's been annoying me for a little while now. I've seen the film twice and thought I had it all figured out fine, and then something occurred to me regarding the kicks in the layers of dream at the end.

When the 'kick' is explained to use earlier on, when they have Arthur asleep on a chair, and 'kick' him so he wakes up, it paints the kick as something that will pull you back from a dream (or layer of).

However, at the end when Ariadne (sp?) jumps off the building with Fischer (in limbo/Cobb's dream space/whatever you want to call it - in their apartment with Mal) this pushes them them back up a level. Going off the earlier explanation the building collapses in the snowy dream level should have pulled them back from there rather than them needing to jump off the building. Or have I missed something painfully obvious?!

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Post #: 236
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 12/8/2010 8:06:53 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2494
Joined: 11/2/2008
That is one point I didn't fully get either.

Unless they need 2 kicks: one pull-kick from the level above and one push-kick from the current level. Maybe that is the case because of the strong sedative.

Come to think of it the 2-kick theory works:

Level 4/Limbo: Fischer gets a push from falling off the roof and a pull from the defibrilator. Ari gets a push from falling off the roof and a pull from the collapsing building
Level 3: the pull for all of them is the crashing elevator in the hotel and the push is the collapsing building
Level 2: the pull is from the van hitting the water in Level 1 and the push is from the crashing elevator
Level 1: they wake up when the machine shuts off in reality

That also explains why they need to blow up the fortress at all: since they never planned on going any deeper than the snow level and only the kick from the upper level was sufficient to get them out, they wouldn't even need to destroy the fortess.

Plus it explains why Arthur doesn't wake up when the van overturns on the road: there is no push-kick on the other side.

< Message edited by grucl -- 12/8/2010 8:09:38 AM >

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Post #: 237
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 12/8/2010 10:02:54 AM   
chod burger


Posts: 298
Joined: 6/9/2006
Yeah that sounds like a good explanation. Of course they could have explained that along with the basic explanation of the kick in all of 5 seconds..!

I do wish there was an IMAX near me though

(in reply to grucl)
Post #: 238
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 12/8/2010 10:44:13 AM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

Didnt Arthur use the explosives to push the elevator downwards?


Think he used the explosives to blow the brakes on the lift and that sent it hurtling down.Iv only seen the film once though so may be wrong.Really must go watch this again.


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Post #: 239
RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 12/8/2010 11:33:25 AM   
chod burger


Posts: 298
Joined: 6/9/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


Didnt Arthur use the explosives to push the elevator downwards?


Think he used the explosives to blow the brakes on the lift and that sent it hurtling down.Iv only seen the film once though so may be wrong.Really must go watch this again.


Arthur used 2 sets of explosives. The first blew the lines from one side of the lift so it would be able to move in the other direction. The second lot blew the lift in that direction (just blowing the brakes wouldnt do anything as there was no gravity). Then the kick happened when the lift hit the ceiling (it was ceiling and not floor wasnt it? !) and they were all jolted to the other side of the lift. I think..............!

Edit - managed to make a fairly epic quote fail..!

< Message edited by chod burger -- 12/8/2010 11:36:01 AM >

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Post #: 240
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