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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 2:46:09 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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OK, so the fallout from last night's viewing was an early-on half-formed idea that resulted in me spending most of the film seeing how it developed, and whether there was anything in it.

I kind of need to see it again, now.

Ok, so... Cobb's wedding band is his totem - at least, he only wears it in the dream world. Which supports the 'reality as shown is actually reality', theory. Naturally, he would be wearing it when he and Mal wake up from limbo (although I didn't spot it for sure) since they're still both alive then. Which does beg the question as to whether they actually woke up from limbo. After all, dying in limbo only gets you one step back up the dream levels (as evidenced by Ariadne and Fischer's journey riding the kick back up). You never see how Saito and Cobb get back to the plane from limbo. From the somewhat haunted look on both their faces, one might suppose it takes a significant amount of time. If, when returning to this 'reality', Cobb and the team are convinced the inception has worked, the result is that Cobb can return to his children. However, I propose that the very idea that Cobb was convinced he had incepted Mal with, has actually been incepted into him. That is, that his 'reality' as he sees it (ie, no wedding band, because he believes Mal to be dead) is the final dream level. The inception that his reality is not reality is complete, and after returning to his 'children' (very similar visually, even if with different shoes apparently) will slowly realise that this reality is not actually reality, and ultimately 'kill himself' to return to our true reality, where Mal is waiting for him.

In support of the 'Mal is still alive' theory is that Mal appears at significant times - perhaps she is the architect? Also, the spinning top totem is Mal's, and thus unreliable as a totem for Cobb. What is Cobb's totem? Is it his wedding band?

The theory needs work, and another viewing might help. Certain lines support it tho - Miles saying, 'come back to reality', the guy in Mombasa saying that the people come there to be woken up, that the dream is their reality - who is he to say any different? The deep sedation dream in Mombasa, where Cobb dreams of limbo with Mal, where she says what he must do to return. All point to it being more an inception of Cobb, rather than by him.

I think I'll take a pen and paper next time I see it...


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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 2:48:52 PM   
Rgirvan44


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I am looking forward to the DVD.

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 2:52:41 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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Just some random thoughts:

'Malware' has traits that Mal exhibits...  

Also, did anyone catch Eames' first name? Was he a doctor of anything? (D.R.Eames or Dr. Eames, is too neat to ignore!)

Also, in Mombasa, a guy is reading a newspaper called 'Faita Leo'. If anyone can add any significance, that would be fun. The only thing I could make of it, was French - 'fait a Leo': 'fact of Leo'.

Just throwing these into the mix!


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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 2:54:43 PM   
MOTH

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

After all, dying in limbo only gets you one step back up the dream levels (as evidenced by Ariadne and Fischer's journey riding the kick back up).



Don't think this bit is correct - as i understood it, dying in limbo wakes you up. this is why it makes more sense if there's a extra dream level (ie Cobb's dream) between snow and Limbo, which explains why Ariadne and Fischer still have to ride the kick up from there.

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 2:55:36 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Also liked the injoke about the song used to raise the alarm and Marion Cotillard. Unless it wasn't an injoke.



It's got to be, surely?

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 2:57:58 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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Definitely an in-joke. But, also, brilliantly, most apt given the lyrics as well. Lot of regret from Cobb in this film.

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 3:00:53 PM   
paul_ie86


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

With regard to Shutter Island - I would be interested to know exactly when filming of both movies took place, cause it does make for an interesting double bill.



According to wikipedia

Shutter Island
quote:


Production began on March 6, 2008.......Filming ended on July 2, 2008


Inception
quote:


Filming began in Tokyo on June 19, 2009 and finished in Canada in late November of the same year.



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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 9:26:32 PM   
hatebox

 

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Noticing that the shady corporation was called Cobalt Engineering, I thought that maybe Cobb, in a play on words, was actually part of that firm, and that Saito was his rival getting him to do an Inception on himself and trapping him in a dream world forever. Sort of like his own version of Mr Charles on Cobb. As a theory it falls down almost instantly because why would Cobb fear his own firm, but it was something I thought about on second viewing. 

< Message edited by hatebox -- 21/7/2010 9:28:45 PM >

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 21/7/2010 11:26:44 PM   
ukacidman


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Watched for a 2nd tome today. as I thought It definatly gets better on the 2nd viewing.. its a 9 1/2 out of 10 now..
Conclusion. Cobb is still in limbo with his own subconcius,, through out the film he is attemtong to come up through the deffernt levels, but in the ends sinks to a level below limbo and is trapped but happy...

One small thing with bugged me.. when the white van is falling off the bridge on level 1. its siad that Arthur has about 2 minutes to induce the kick for the guys on level 3, however it takes him aleast 10 mins to induce this... plus the van was falling for a alwful long time off the bridge.. and the van has so little damage on it, this is after its been involved in a high spped road chase, rolled down a bank and had the shit shoot out of it for about 1/2 hour....( maybe the vehicles in dreamland are robust enough to handle this sort of damage..)

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 22/7/2010 12:45:43 AM   
darth silas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MOTH


quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

After all, dying in limbo only gets you one step back up the dream levels (as evidenced by Ariadne and Fischer's journey riding the kick back up).



Don't think this bit is correct - as i understood it, dying in limbo wakes you up. this is why it makes more sense if there's a extra dream level (ie Cobb's dream) between snow and Limbo, which explains why Ariadne and Fischer still have to ride the kick up from there.


I could be wrong here as i only got back from seeing this film for the first time a few hours ago,but i was under the impression that dying in the dream world sent you to limbo and once that happens,you can never wake up from it.Im probably competely wrong here as my brain is still tied in knots from watching this film.I did really enjoy it though!


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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 22/7/2010 9:48:48 AM   
Rgirvan44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

quote:

ORIGINAL: MOTH


quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

After all, dying in limbo only gets you one step back up the dream levels (as evidenced by Ariadne and Fischer's journey riding the kick back up).



Don't think this bit is correct - as i understood it, dying in limbo wakes you up. this is why it makes more sense if there's a extra dream level (ie Cobb's dream) between snow and Limbo, which explains why Ariadne and Fischer still have to ride the kick up from there.


I could be wrong here as i only got back from seeing this film for the first time a few hours ago,but i was under the impression that dying in the dream world sent you to limbo and once that happens,you can never wake up from it.Im probably competely wrong here as my brain is still tied in knots from watching this film.I did really enjoy it though!



Usually if you are killed or die that is enough of a kick back from the dream. However, because of the stuff they had taken, they were so heavily knocked out that if killed, they would go down into limbo.

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 22/7/2010 11:06:28 AM   
Hungrymark

 

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Was there any relevance to the fact that Saito saw Cobb's (supposedly private) totem as it fell to the floor in the bathroom?

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 22/7/2010 1:17:09 PM   
hatebox

 

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It meant he recognized it as an old man in limbo, I suppose. Remember, totems can be seen by others, they just can't be touched. When old Saito did touch it, he realized he was still dreaming because it didn't stop spinning.

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 22/7/2010 8:55:00 PM   
juanvasquez


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Got my IMAX tickets booked! Can't wait!

Though not going for a couple of weeks due to prior engagements - Toy Story 3 being one of them

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 23/7/2010 11:51:14 AM   
adambatman82

 

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Why has the Inception review thread been locked?

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 23/7/2010 12:00:39 PM   
darth silas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hatebox

It meant he recognized it as an old man in limbo, I suppose. Remember, totems can be seen by others, they just can't be touched. When old Saito did touch it, he realized he was still dreaming because it didn't stop spinning.



Which must mean Cobb is still in the dream world at the very end of the film right? The top doesnt stop spinning when he leaves it on the table as he goes to join his children.


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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 23/7/2010 12:04:15 PM   
tftrman


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But that's the beauty of the last scene - it keeps spinning for longer than you would think normal, but does waiver unlike the totem in the dream state. In other words - make your own mind up!

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 23/7/2010 12:23:43 PM   
shool


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Why has the Inception review thread been locked?


Dunno, looking into it.

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 23/7/2010 6:39:22 PM   
Deviation


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The theories of this thread remind me of Piles' Toy Story 3 theories. Conspiracy or coincidense? 

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 23/7/2010 7:16:47 PM   
porntrooper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

Definitely an in-joke. But, also, brilliantly, most apt given the lyrics as well. Lot of regret from Cobb in this film.



Definately not an in joke.

During the run up to release Chud.com ran a number of articles, one of which was a super interesting piece about the music and sound design. Nolan confirmed that the use of the Edith Piaf song and Marion was just a coincidence. In his original idea he had always intended to use that piece of music as the countdown to the kick, as fit with the themes of the story (old men in limbo, filled with regret). There was also some great discussion about how Hans Zimmer worked it into his score in dirrect ways. If you can find it on Chud, it's an interesting read.



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Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 23/7/2010 7:47:14 PM   
mattdavies86

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB


quote:

ORIGINAL: juanvasquez

Even though it was planted there to illicit an emotional response from Fischer, when he finds the windmill in the safe I was almost welling up. It was such a great moment and you have to remind yourself it's all staged!

Yeah,it was an amazing moment,and although staged,it just achingly showed a sons yearning to be loved.
Probably a stand out scene of the catharsis and human issues involved in a very complex drama where reality was hard to decipher.



I've read a few posts here and there suggesting the film fails to pack the emotional punch. They clearly need to re-watch this scene - the satisfaction that the idea that has been staged is taking hold of Fischer (and as such will lead to Cobb being reunited), the presence of the windmill in the safe, Fischer connecting with his father and Hans Zimmer's incredible score. It's quite a moment that nearly had me in tears and every hair on the back of my neck standing on end.


Edit: I only edited the title, so it didn't contain any references to specifics of the film. Just because titles feed into the main page, and with a film like Inception, some folk want to know as little as possible before seeing it. It wasn't spoilery, I'm just being nitpicky cos I know I'd be one of those folk!


< Message edited by homersimpson_esq -- 24/7/2010 11:20:09 PM >

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Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 24/7/2010 11:15:15 PM   
redpaw

 

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I recently started a new thread on Inception and it was suggested that I post here instead. So, here it is...

I want to talk about the ending of new film Inception and it's meaning...

MAJOR SPOILERS TO FOLLOW... !!!

I think DiCaprio's character, Cobb, is still dreaming at the end of the film. Now, I know what you're think; "well, duh, of course - that's exactly what the implication is with the spinning top". But I don't mean it in this way. By the end of the film, Cobb has to go deeper into his (or whoever's subconcious it is) to retrieve Watanabe's character. Watanabe arrived there in this deep layer of subconcious due to, what appears to be, an accident that came about earlier in which he was shot. So, the story goes, that Cobb goes to retrieve Watanabe so that he can uphold his end of the bargain in the real world and allow Cobb to return home to be with his children. It would appear Cobb is succesful. That is until the very last shot with the spinning top, which would suggest otherwise, and that he is indeed, still trapped in a dream. That's a pretty clever ending. However, is it possible that Inception is much more cleverer than we are giving it credit for?

I've since watched Inception another time and I'm starting to suspect there's something else going on entirely. Even though, say, 90 percent of the film takes place in the dream world, there are still a few scenes that, supposedly, take place in the real world. This theory, which I suppose you could call it that, possits that the entire film takes place in a dream. Not only do I believe the whole film is a dream, but I also believe that it was Cobb's main goal to wind up in the dream along with his children at the end of the film. There are a small, subtle number of instances throughout the film, where Cobb's motives appear questionable. I suspect that Cobb staged every event in the film. The whole thing about Watanabe's competeting with Cillian Murphy's character, this was either partially or comepletely staged in Cobb's subconcious. Cobb's goal in the film is to return to his kids. At some point, he realized that he was screwed, and that was never gonna happen. And so he staged in his subconcious, a scenario in which this could be achievable if he does X,Y and Z for Watanabe. He creates a phony mission, or, a maze, in which the reward for completing it, is his children. He stages a scenario where he must carry out a certain task -- certain things go wrong - Watanabe being shot - and Cobb ends up still trapped in a dream by the end of the film, even though he believes he is in the real world. You see, Cobb's plan was such that, if he couldn't be with his children in real life, he could create a world which he himself could believe it was real (when in fact it isn't) and he could be with his children. Do you see? He purposely planted himself in a false reality that he could accept as being real, and thus he would be rid of the guilt he speaks of throughout the film, since he had already cleansed himself of his ties to his wife.

Anyhoo, those are my thoughts. I kinda feel like there's a lot more to talk about after a second viewing. I just wonder, are any of you guys having any of the same thoughts?

Edit: same reason as above. :-)


< Message edited by homersimpson_esq -- 24/7/2010 11:21:40 PM >

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 24/7/2010 11:26:17 PM   
juanvasquez


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Saw this for a second time today. Still as awesome, and has still left me really thinking about it.

A couple of thoughts:

When Cobb is in his apartment/hotel room in Tokyo, he spins the totem, and it spins for a considerable amount of time (before toppling), which it also does at the end, and it does start waver for about a second before it cuts to black, and lasted about the same amount of time as it did in the apartment/hotel room.

In Mombasa, when Cobb meets Eames in the casino, he picks up one of his chips, and says 'you never could spell properly'. Is it Eames' casino, or are they in Eams' dream?

Also, after Cobb has tried a sedative and gone under for 5 minutes, he's in the toilets, goes to spin his totem, but it falls on the floor after Saito startles him, so he doesn't actually see if it topples.
If this is the case, and he is still in a dream, this could support the theory that it's an Inception on Cobb. The reasoning behind this is that he thinks he is responsible for his wife's death, and only by coming to terms with this, can he bring himself to look at his children again. But that's a bit arse and no where near as exciting as just going with what happened, happened so I have dismissed that one.

It also answered a few more questions like how the architect builds everything even in someone else's dream, and how limbo works. I'm not articulate enough to repeat it, but it works for me!

< Message edited by juanvasquez -- 24/7/2010 11:34:27 PM >


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Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 24/7/2010 11:33:11 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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Why won't the title stay changed?! Stupid edit not working...

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 25/7/2010 11:13:39 AM   
AcE_3000

 

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Stunning. Mind-blowing. Amazing. Incredible. Thrilling. A masterpiece. A classic.

Possibly the most thrilling and suspenseful movie i have seen in my life. Just PURE GENIUS. Nolan is better than Spielberg in this movie. The universe he creates is compelling and fascinating and limitless. Imaginative. The totems. The dream 'collapsing'. In limbo. Zero gravity. The idea, the most 'resilient parasite'. The character names. The multilayered, levels of dream. The kick. The ingeniusnous. The creativity. The imagination. The action. The cast. The climax.

Everything here is mond blowing.
A masterpiece.

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 25/7/2010 2:21:24 PM   
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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 25/7/2010 2:40:42 PM   
Olaf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juanvasquez
In Mombasa, when Cobb meets Eames in the casino, he picks up one of his chips, and says 'you never could spell properly'. Is it Eames' casino, or are they in Eams' dream?



was wondering about this. It was definitely a dream - when Cobb goes into the food hall and that guy starts shouting at him, you can see everyone looking at him, which means he was in someone else's subconscious. The only problem is trying to figure out whose subconscious (Eames? Saito?) he was in, and why... my head hurts.

Unrelated theory: I reckon Saito was a construct of Cobb's subconscious, a "forgery" like Fischer's godfather, which allowed Cobb to work through his guilt issues (hence the multiple references to catharsis throughout) or something. Probably explaining why Saito shared a number of lines with Mol.

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 25/7/2010 8:57:47 PM   
BOHEMIANBOB


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Just a quick question.
Has anyone who seen it again(and liked it the first time),thought it wasn't as good upon repeat viewing?

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 25/7/2010 9:30:32 PM   
hatebox

 

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Seen it twice and enjoyed it at least as much, though some of the snow action still niggled like the first time. 

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RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 25/7/2010 10:09:03 PM   
juanvasquez


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Nope. But it was slightly ruined by the guy sat next to me. He fucking stunk! And his girlfriend kept whispering to him throughout.

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