RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!!

Follow @empiremagazine

Forum Home

Register for Free!

Log In

Moderator Tickets

FAQ

Users Online

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!!

Logged in as: Guest

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Favourite Films >> RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!!

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 12:06:18 PM

gordonsalive

Posts: 68
Joined: 26/4/2009
From: The Tannhauser Gate

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob

Good article and a really articulate synopsis from Rao. However, although I'm firmly in agreement with his take on the film there is easily enough evidence to go another way entirely.

Exactly.
And many of those ways are completely valid.

I really think that's what makes this film so special.

_____________________________

'You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.'

(in reply to Rob)

Post #: 91

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 12:54:12 PM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2155
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

One of my colleagues here just came up with a great idea, borne out of a lack of patience with the theories being bandied about.

Why doesn't DiCaprio just dream the spinning top falls over? Happy ending. Sorted.

_____________________________

Just flirting to keep you cheerful.

(in reply to gordonsalive)

Post #: 92

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 1:04:21 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18863
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: gordonsalive

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob

Good article and a really articulate synopsis from Rao. However, although I'm firmly in agreement with his take on the film there is easily enough evidence to go another way entirely.

Exactly.
And many of those ways are completely valid.

I really think that's what makes this film so special.

I don't think there will ever be a soild 100% answer to the film, and I wouldn't have it any other way. The discussions following the film have been really interesting.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.

(in reply to gordonsalive)

Post #: 93

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 1:16:55 PM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: captainrentboy
Edit- And was that wall in Mombassa actually closing in, or was it just an illusion, and it was just naturally becoming more narrow as Leo got to the other end? i'm not bloody sure!

Interesting point. I just assumed it was part of the architecture of Mombassa, alas you may be on to their something. We don't see the building move at all tho, but I do like that idea.

i mentioned that earlier

I didn't think the walls were actually moving myself-does that small detail mean that scene was real or dreamt then??

_____________________________

Misunderstood.
Don't care.
Have you seen my stolen signature?!

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 94

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 1:17:48 PM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: gordonsalive

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob

Good article and a really articulate synopsis from Rao. However, although I'm firmly in agreement with his take on the film there is easily enough evidence to go another way entirely.

Exactly.
And many of those ways are completely valid.

I really think that's what makes this film so special.

I don't think there will ever be a soild 100% answer to the film, and I wouldn't have it any other way. The discussions following the film have been really interesting.

Will we ever have a definitive analysis??Ever??

_____________________________

Misunderstood.
Don't care.
Have you seen my stolen signature?!

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 95

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 1:29:31 PM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2155
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I don't think there will ever be a soild 100% answer to the film, and I wouldn't have it any other way. The discussions following the film have been really interesting.

Can I be annoying and harp on a little bit more about the requirement for another film(s)? (I gave it more thought over the weekend).

Unanswered questions are great and will no doubt add to the longevity of the film. I also understand why you�ve cited Blade Runner as the reason why a sequel is not appropriate (just getting back to an earlier post on Friday RG). But I don�t think the two are quite comparable in this respect. Blade Runner�s ending is almost a simple binary ambiguity. Is he or isn�t he? Will he or won�t he? Inception is not so much ambiguous as it is inviting an infinite array of possibilities. While its wholly complimentary to say that about any film, when you actually think about it, �an infinite array of possibilities� can almost render anything you�ve seen in the 2 and a half hours meaningless. It could all be an experiment set on a military base; it could all be taking place in the mind of a �dream-share� addict in the basement of an opium den; it could actually ALL be taking place in the mind of Paul the Psychic Octopus. If you entertain the possibilites to infinity it actually belittles any of the skill in crafting a system of idea where the limits are already expertly martialled. That�s why I think elaboration would be a very good thing for the Inception concept.

The other notion is that we can easily leave all these characters and explore the physics of Nolan�s dream-sharing with an entirely new raft of characters and a new scenario. As I say, just to explore the boundaries, and the permutations.

If you put aside the exploitiative nature inherent in sequels and consider the merit in developing this then I think this could have legitimacy.

On a slightly more practical note, its been suggested that Nolan is franchise-phobic. I think that�s proving more and more of a myth. Yes, with the release of every Bat film he�s smothered talk of a follow-up to the point where we glean his reluctance. But then he comes out with statements like �You have to realised this story was intended as a trilogy� (I�m sure I�m paraphrasing, but that�s been something said in direct relation to the 3rd Batman film hasn�t it? Or did I dream that?

) I think he�s completely right to repress talk of follow-ups when a film has just come out � but all I�m saying is that those signifiers of franchise aversion may not be as pronounced as we might think.

_____________________________

Just flirting to keep you cheerful.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 96

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 1:43:20 PM

HIM

Posts: 9682
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

My ultimate theory is thus; Cobb incepted Saito in order to return to the States. We don't see the top tier of the dream world, merely the different levels of the "idea" that Saito will secure safe passage to the USA for Cobb. By the end of the film, in the first dream (which plays out as the "real" world on-screen), Cobb has implanted the idea deep enough for it to work in that world, which would suggest that it was safe enough for him to risk it in the real, real-world.

That's an interesting theory actually. So basically everything in the film is dreams within dreams except the bit where everyone wakes up on the plane and final shot of Leo and his tribe, which is actual reality?

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 97

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 1:48:14 PM

HIM

Posts: 9682
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Interesting surmisation re- Saito aging in limbo and Cobb not.

Taken from http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Inception-Explained-Unraveling-The-Dream-Within-The-Dream-19615.html

Why is Saito so much older than Cobb in the final dream level?
A: It's likely that Cobb and Saito are in limbo for the same amount of time, however Cobb knows he's in limbo, so perhaps this keeps him from aging visibly. Saito on the other hand seems to have forgotten where he is, and so the passage of time (which could have been decades since time runs faster the deeper you go) has more of an affect on him. Similarly, the first time Cobb and Mal end up in limbo they aged because they've forgotten where they really are and accepted it as their reality.

Due to the metaphysical state of limbo meaning that one ought to not literally age, I can buy this.

I just took it as the fact that Saito 'died' in the snow and thus entered limbo a few minutes before Leo did. Due to the rules of time of dreams within dreams i.e. 10 seconds in the first layer = 1 hour in the second = weeks in third = decades in the fourth (which is limbo).

It's like in Star Trek (2009) where Nero enters the anomaly a few seconds before Spock but travels back in time about 20 years further.

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 98

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 2:32:39 PM

boove

Posts: 1188
Joined: 30/9/2005

The whole idea of 'the kick' is intriguing me. I am thinking more with regards to real world applications.

I wonder if maybe giving a coma patient 'a kick' could suddenly jolt them awake...?

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 99

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 2:34:02 PM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2155
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Interesting surmisation re- Saito aging in limbo and Cobb not.

Taken from http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Inception-Explained-Unraveling-The-Dream-Within-The-Dream-19615.html

Why is Saito so much older than Cobb in the final dream level?
A: It's likely that Cobb and Saito are in limbo for the same amount of time, however Cobb knows he's in limbo, so perhaps this keeps him from aging visibly. Saito on the other hand seems to have forgotten where he is, and so the passage of time (which could have been decades since time runs faster the deeper you go) has more of an affect on him. Similarly, the first time Cobb and Mal end up in limbo they aged because they've forgotten where they really are and accepted it as their reality.

Due to the metaphysical state of limbo meaning that one ought to not literally age, I can buy this.

I just took it as the fact that Saito 'died' in the snow and thus entered limbo a few minutes before Leo did. Due to the rules of time of dreams within dreams i.e. 10 seconds in the first layer = 1 hour in the second = weeks in third = decades in the fourth (which is limbo).

It's like in Star Trek (2009) where Nero enters the anomaly a few seconds before Spock but travels back in time about 20 years further.

By its very nature Limbo would not subscribe to the rules of time elapse experienced in the other layers. Isn't it just pure, raw, subconscious and as such it would be completely relative to the individual mind how it passed there. There's definitely something in the idea that two people going there together could orient their experience better than one person. I suppose (not having been there recently myself).

_____________________________

Just flirting to keep you cheerful.

(in reply to HIM)

Post #: 100

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 3:13:30 PM

hatebox

Posts: 942
Joined: 14/2/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: demoncleaner

Unanswered questions are great and will no doubt add to the longevity of the film. I also understand why you've cited Blade Runner as the reason why a sequel is not appropriate (just getting back to an earlier post on Friday RG). But I don't think the two are quite comparable in this respect. Blade Runner's ending is almost a simple binary ambiguity. Is he or isn't he? Will he or won't he? Inception is not so much ambiguous as it is inviting an infinite array of possibilities. While its wholly complimentary to say that about any film, when you actually think about it, "an infinite array of possibilities� can almost render anything you've seen in the 2 and a half hours meaningless. It could all be an experiment set on a military base; it could all be taking place in the mind of a "dream-share� addict in the basement of an opium den; it could actually ALL be taking place in the mind of Paul the Psychic Octopus. If you entertain the possibilites to infinity it actually belittles any of the skill in crafting a system of idea where the limits are already expertly martialled. That's why I think elaboration would be a very good thing for the Inception concept.

I agree with you, but I think if you were to write down all the possible interpretations of the film that were backed up by hard evidence it probably wouldn't come to that many. I mean it's fun to throw ideas around but a lot of people, not necessarily on this thread, haven't put much analysis behind their notions - mainly due to the fact they've only seen it once.

(in reply to demoncleaner)

Post #: 101

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 4:09:15 PM

Giant Green Rabbit

Posts: 1107
Joined: 13/2/2006
From: Cloud Cuckoo Land

SPOILERS

Re-watch the last five minutes of the film. I've only seen it twice so I can't be sure, but is everything from the end of the Saito/Cobb sequence to the last shot filmed in such a way so as to emphasise it being Cobb's perception as opposed to objective reality? As I remember it, we see Cobb waking up before any of the others, even though the others have been given the triple/quadruple kick and the obvious thing for a film-maker to do would be to show each and every one of them wake up in the plane. Are there any shots of the team waking up in the plane whilst Cobb is still down there? I'm not so sure there are.

After the limbo sequence, Cobb supposedly wakes up. Cobb then sees his team one by one and the camera shifts to those team-members who do nothing other than acknowledge his presence and his experience. The sole purpose of the sequence seems to be to confirm to Cobb that everything worked and to acknowledge his presence. In the airport the camera follows Cobb; the others make nods and gestures but they are really just a shade of real people; caricatures. If Cobb were to create a reality, this is exactly what it would look like; self-centred, geared towards satisfying Cobb's ego, reassuring him of 'reality'.

It might be that we have absolutely no way of knowing what happened after the inception operation, who survived and who didn't, because Nolan only showed us what Cobb created, possibly a long time after the event.

< Message edited by Giant Green Rabbit -- 19/7/2010 4:10:40 PM >

_____________________________

Once there was a little bunny who had a little furry tail and a little shiny nose. But the electrodeath cloud of commerce strangled it and its foxhole was converted to a parking lot, a parking lot, a parking lot. Ample parking asphalted over bunny bones. Everyone everyone get in.

(in reply to juanvasquez)

Post #: 102

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 4:37:31 PM

superdan

Posts: 7199
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giant Green Rabbit

SPOILERS

Re-watch the last five minutes of the film. I've only seen it twice so I can't be sure, but is everything from the end of the Saito/Cobb sequence to the last shot filmed in such a way so as to emphasise it being Cobb's perception as opposed to objective reality? As I remember it, we see Cobb waking up before any of the others, even though the others have been given the triple/quadruple kick and the obvious thing for a film-maker to do would be to show each and every one of them wake up in the plane. Are there any shots of the team waking up in the plane whilst Cobb is still down there? I'm not so sure there are.

As I remember it, there are no shots of them waking up but the whole team seemed very much already awake when Cobb comes around. Arthur is already sat up and looking at him with a sly smile, Fischer is sat looking out of the window or something. The only exception is Saito, who looks as bewildered and shaken as Cobb does.

(in reply to Giant Green Rabbit)

Post #: 103

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 6:57:18 PM

Dirty Hartigan

Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester

Saw the film last night, and am loving the discussion in this thread. I like Girvan's theory that an Inception is being performed on Cobb (possibly even by Mal and Grandfather Caine). I did think the same thing as everyone else here about the wall seeming to close in him in Mombassa.I agree with Bohemian Bob's assertion that Cobb at the end is putting away questioning this reality because he gets to be with his kids. The construction is amazing though - because you can really take it either way - Nolan's true genius is the ambiguity of the (somehow inevitable) final shot.

Definitely a masterpiece up there with Memento and The Prestige. Certainly it felt like the most 'complete' film Nolan has made, for want of a better term. I'm actually slightly worried that this is Nolan's Goodfellas!

(in reply to superdan)

Post #: 104

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 7:09:33 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

My ultimate theory is thus; Cobb incepted Saito in order to return to the States. We don't see the top tier of the dream world, merely the different levels of the "idea" that Saito will secure safe passage to the USA for Cobb. By the end of the film, in the first dream (which plays out as the "real" world on-screen), Cobb has implanted the idea deep enough for it to work in that world, which would suggest that it was safe enough for him to risk it in the real, real-world.

That's an interesting theory actually. So basically everything in the film is dreams within dreams except the bit where everyone wakes up on the plane and final shot of Leo and his tribe, which is actual reality?

I don't even think that that is necessarily the real world! I don't think we see the real world.

(in reply to HIM)

Post #: 105

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 7:12:10 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: demoncleaner

By its very nature Limbo would not subscribe to the rules of time elapse experienced in the other layers.� Isn't it just pure, raw, subconscious and as such it would be completely relative to the individual mind how it passed there.� There's definitely something in the idea that two people going there together could orient their experience better than one person.� I suppose (not having been there recently myself).

This is how I imagine limbo to work. Temporal treatment differs on the person experiencing the space, with the space adapting to the emotional state of the person in question. So, Cobb had been there before, and knew what to expect, so coped differently within the space to Saito, who fell into limbo accidentally through death.

Or something.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 19/7/2010 7:18:11 PM >

(in reply to demoncleaner)

Post #: 106

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 7:13:29 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Interesting surmisation re- Saito aging in limbo and Cobb not.

Taken from http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Inception-Explained-Unraveling-The-Dream-Within-The-Dream-19615.html

Why is Saito so much older than Cobb in the final dream level?
A: It's likely that Cobb and Saito are in limbo for the same amount of time, however Cobb knows he's in limbo, so perhaps this keeps him from aging visibly. Saito on the other hand seems to have forgotten where he is, and so the passage of time (which could have been decades since time runs faster the deeper you go) has more of an affect on him. Similarly, the first time Cobb and Mal end up in limbo they aged because they've forgotten where they really are and accepted it as their reality.

Due to the metaphysical state of limbo meaning that one ought to not literally age, I can buy this.

I just took it as the fact that Saito 'died' in the snow and thus entered limbo a few minutes before Leo did. Due to the rules of time of dreams within dreams i.e. 10 seconds in the first layer = 1 hour in the second = weeks in third = decades in the fourth (which is limbo).

It's like in Star Trek (2009) where Nero enters the anomaly a few seconds before Spock but travels back in time about 20 years further.

Did Cobb not enter limbo before Saito (Saito died after Cobb and Ariadne went into the final dream stage).

(in reply to HIM)

Post #: 107

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 7:16:03 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: hatebox

quote:

ORIGINAL: gordonsalive
I mean, Saito watched Cobb fail trying to do an extraction on himself, then asked Cobb to try an inception which is even more difficult.� Why ask him when he thought he wasn't that good? Unless Cobb had already planted the idea that he could pull off an inception because he had with Mal.

Yes, I wondered about that too - why would he hire Cobb after all if he just failed the 'audition'? Assuming those scenes were real of course.

He didn't fail the audition though. He failed what Saito thought was the inception, but then told him he'd passed after he realised that said inception was a dream within a dream. Thats what impressed Saito.

(in reply to hatebox)

Post #: 108

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 7:39:18 PM

Dirty Hartigan

Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester

Regards the Cobb not aging thing, isn't the limbo created from his memories anyway? The beach he washes up on is the one he went to with his family, isn't it?

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 109

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 8:24:21 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

Regards the Cobb not aging thing, isn't the limbo created from his memories anyway? The beach he washes up on is the one he went to with his family, isn't it?

Isn't it shared between people who have been in the dream world together, and only them? I thought that was stated when the concept of limbo first comes up.

(in reply to Dirty Hartigan)

Post #: 110

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 8:39:19 PM

captainrentboy

Posts: 678
Joined: 16/3/2008
From: South Wales

I thought Limbo was a blank and empty void until the person experiencing it began to fill it with architecture. As Cobb was the only one connected to the dream sharing machine throughout the heist that had experienced Limbo before, anyone else who fell into Limbo whilst hooked up would initially only experience what he and Mol had created in their minds (And after so long being empty of consciousness, it was pretty much destroyed)
It was only because Saito then remained in Limbo for '50 years' that he had also created architecture on the bank of the beach too. Although after 50 years he was far more immersed and unaware of reality in that world than Leo ever was, hence his aging.

.....Yes?

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 111

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 9:18:10 PM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giant Green Rabbit

SPOILERS

Re-watch the last five minutes of the film. I've only seen it twice so I can't be sure, but is everything from the end of the Saito/Cobb sequence to the last shot filmed in such a way so as to emphasise it being Cobb's perception as opposed to objective reality? As I remember it, we see Cobb waking up before any of the others, even though the others have been given the triple/quadruple kick and the obvious thing for a film-maker to do would be to show each and every one of them wake up in the plane. Are there any shots of the team waking up in the plane whilst Cobb is still down there? I'm not so sure there are.

As I remember it, there are no shots of them waking up but�the whole team seemed very much already awake when Cobb comes around. Arthur is already sat up and looking at him with a sly smile, Fischer is sat�looking out of the window�or something. The only exception is Saito, who looks as bewildered and shaken as Cobb does.�

The team have to behave the way they do on the plane/airport to support the inception they've just performed.
As for Cobb/Saito-they are the last to wake because both of them have come from Limbo.

_____________________________

Misunderstood.
Don't care.
Have you seen my stolen signature?!

(in reply to superdan)

Post #: 112

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 9:24:18 PM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: captainrentboy

I thought Limbo was a blank and empty void until the person experiencing it began to fill it with architecture. As Cobb was the only one connected to the dream sharing machine throughout the heist that had experienced Limbo before, anyone else who fell into Limbo whilst hooked up would initially only experience what he and Mol had created in their minds (And after so long being empty of consciousness, it was pretty much destroyed)
It was only because Saito then remained in Limbo for '50 years' that he had also created architecture on the bank of the beach too. Although after 50 years he was far more immersed and unaware of reality in that world than Leo ever was, hence his aging.

.....Yes?

Yeah,agree with that.
The rules about Limbo are less clear.Don't forget Cobb followed Saito into Limbo,so he was there first.

_____________________________

Misunderstood.
Don't care.
Have you seen my stolen signature?!

(in reply to captainrentboy)

Post #: 113

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 9:27:42 PM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

Saw the film last night, and am loving the discussion in this thread. I like Girvan's theory that an Inception is being performed on Cobb (possibly even by Mal and Grandfather Caine). I did think the same thing as everyone else here about the wall seeming to close in him in Mombassa.I agree with Bohemian Bob's assertion that Cobb at the end is putting away questioning this reality because he gets to be with his kids. The construction is amazing though - because you can really take it either way - Nolan's true genius is the ambiguity of the (somehow inevitable) final shot.

Definitely a masterpiece up there with Memento and The Prestige. Certainly it felt like the most 'complete' film Nolan has made, for want of a better term. I'm actually slightly worried that this is Nolan's Goodfellas!

Thing about Cobb and his kids:
He sees them a few times in various dreams-yet only at the very end does he actually approach them.
Does this not underline that this is,for him,reality,or at worst,an accepted state of subconscious where he's "come home"?

_____________________________

Misunderstood.
Don't care.
Have you seen my stolen signature?!

(in reply to Dirty Hartigan)

Post #: 114

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 9:29:44 PM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Interesting surmisation re- Saito aging in limbo and Cobb not.

Taken from http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Inception-Explained-Unraveling-The-Dream-Within-The-Dream-19615.html

Why is Saito so much older than Cobb in the final dream level?
A: It's likely that Cobb and Saito are in limbo for the same amount of time, however Cobb knows he's in limbo, so perhaps this keeps him from aging visibly. Saito on the other hand seems to have forgotten where he is, and so the passage of time (which could have been decades since time runs faster the deeper you go) has more of an affect on him. Similarly, the first time Cobb and Mal end up in limbo they aged because they've forgotten where they really are and accepted it as their reality.

Due to the metaphysical state of limbo meaning that one ought to not literally age, I can buy this.

I just took it as the fact that Saito 'died' in the snow and thus entered limbo a few minutes before Leo did. Due to the rules of time of dreams within dreams i.e. 10 seconds in the first layer = 1 hour in the second = weeks in third = decades in the fourth (which is limbo).

It's like in Star Trek (2009) where Nero enters the anomaly a few seconds before Spock but travels back in time about 20 years further.

Did Cobb not enter limbo before Saito (Saito died after Cobb and Ariadne went into the final dream stage).

Don't think so!
Cobb went after Saito when he dies(and into limbo) with Page, as his wife,part of his subconscious,is trying to sabotage the inception.

_____________________________

Misunderstood.
Don't care.
Have you seen my stolen signature?!

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 115

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 9:39:34 PM

ukacidman

Posts: 581
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: From beyond the the 7TH WAVE

Saw it for the first time last night. Liked it alot, however at this early stage. Im still working it out, so at this momment in time I prefear The Prestige. howveer just like The Prestige this movie demands 2 or 3 viewings. to fully get it,
at this early stage. I rekon the whole movie is a dream, a dream with in a dream with in a fream with in a dream...
currently a 8 out of 10 movie sure it will improve on a repeated viewing

_____________________________

" WAKE UP TIME TO DIE
"
last 5 cinema vist's 2013
Iron Man 3 ( 8/10)
Good Vibrations 8/10
Cloude Atlas 7/10
Wrek It Ralph 7/10
Zero Darl Thirty 8/10

(in reply to BOHEMIANBOB)

Post #: 116

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 9:40:31 PM

Keyser Sozzled

Posts: 5933
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Dublin

I have spent a while thinking about it and (as I have only seen it once) I reckon the following...

Cobb is the subject of an Inception from the very start, we never see the "real" world nor who is behind the Inception but my own take is that it is Mal and Michael Caine. I believe that Mal was one who realised that they were in Limbo and knew the only way out was to "kill" herself. Cobb could not let go and remained in a dream state. He may have achieved a rise to another level but still does not realise he is dreaming.

The simple idea at the heart of this Inception is that he must let Mal go and accept that she not real. Whilst he believes that he is staging an Inception on Fischer this is what the "Inceptor" knows he will do. The team are all constructs, everyone of them. Mombassa is Cobb getting very close to realising he is in a dream, when the walls "close" if he doesn't make it though he will be "captured" by the company agents who are in my view his own minds defences.

Ultimately he fails though. The thought of his children, again in another stage of the dream are too much of a draw to him. Whilst hoping that idea of leaving Mal is hoped to be enough it is not as he still cannot accept the reality.

At various times, notably with Michael Caine, he is encouraged to "come back to the real world"...I believe that Caine has entered the dream and is not a construct but knows by the end that it is a fruitless excercise, Cobb will remain forever lost.

This could of course be total bollocks

_____________________________

I have no idea who any of them are, apart from Terry Pratchett who I know has got a beard and keeps going on about killing himself but never does.

(in reply to BOHEMIANBOB)

Post #: 117

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 10:16:24 PM

hampstead bandit

Posts: 374
Joined: 18/9/2009

The whole idea of 'the kick' is intriguing me. I am thinking more with regards to real world applications.

I wonder if maybe giving a coma patient 'a kick' could suddenly jolt them awake...?

the "kick" is known as the "jump" in gnostic studies ( a very ancient form of meditation and spiritual practise) - I undertook this whilst at University, for 3 years

a practise in these studies, is to perform a "jump" (or hop, if you like) on a very regular basis during your day-to-day life

every time during the jump in reality, the reflex action of gravity brings you down to earth, every time this action is taken, which conditions you

in a dream state, when the jump is performed, a sensation of floating is experienced, which snaps the dreamer awake as this opposes the conditioning

awoken within their dream...a "lucid" dream if you like

in dream states, less physical laws (a dream) or more physical laws (a nightmare) operate (which explains flying or swooping down to the ground after falling in a dream, and the opposite feeling of being very heavy / not being able to run away from something chasing you in a nightmare)

sounds like a like of mumbo jumbo perhaps, but once you have experienced this, its literally mind blowing ;)

< Message edited by hampstead bandit -- 19/7/2010 10:17:36 PM >

(in reply to Keyser Sozzled)

Post #: 118

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 10:22:07 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Did Cobb not enter limbo before Saito (Saito died after Cobb and Ariadne went into the final dream stage).

Don't think so!
Cobb went after Saito when he dies(and into limbo) with Page, as his wife,part of his subconscious,is trying to sabotage the inception.

No he didn't, Cobb went after Fischer when HE died. Saito was still alive when Cobb went into limbo, he was given the task of covering Eames and protecting the 'sleeping' bodies of Cobb and Ariadne when the base was being attacked. He died just after throwing a grenade down a shaft, preventing the bad guys from getting in. Cobb even says to Ariedne in limbo that Saito would have died since they left, and thats why he's staying (to look for him).

Cobb and Ariadne initially went into limbo to save Fischer.

(in reply to BOHEMIANBOB)

Post #: 119

RE: Inception - Beware of Spoilers!! - 19/7/2010 10:25:02 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

From the summary of the film's plot -

In limbo, Ariadne and Cobb are confronted by Mal. It is revealed that Cobb knew inception was possible because when previously trapped in limbo with Mal he had planted the idea in her mind that the "limbo" world was fake � an implantation that got her to leave limbo but persisted in real life, leading to her suicide. Mal attempts to convince Cobb to stay in limbo and attacks him, but Ariadne shoots her and Mal dies in Cobb's arms. Following this, Fischer and Ariadne are able to return to the third-level mountain fortress, where Fischer confronts his father and reaches the cathartic understanding (as intended by the team) that his father had wanted him to be his own man. But during the confrontation with Mal in limbo, Saito dies (in level three). Cobb remains in the limbo state to locate him.

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 120