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RE: Four Lions - 14/5/2010 9:16:53 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18874
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveTheStampede

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB
That's all fine and dandy,i completely agree with your sentiments, but i don't find this film funny!

So be it.� Humour is subjective.� However, if you completely agree with my sentiments, then you understand the point of the movie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB
Film fans/critics are like art fans/critics they see value sometimes in things that are simply worthless.

As defined by whom?� You?� Me?� Some magical arbiter of what does and does not have worth?

As far as I am concerned, this film has worth because, whether you find it funny or not, it actually dares to mock the misguided twats that think blowing up people on buses and trains will get them in to heaven.� It has worth because every time these jackasses are ridiculed, they lose their power to terrify.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB
What next?A comedy about paedophilia?

Strawman.� Paedophilia isn't an ideology that one can be indoctrinated into, it is a sexual preference.� Having said that, watch the Excel Saga anime.� It's already (sort of) been done.

However, I can already sense that this is one of those arguments/debates that will go around, and around, and around, in a never ending cycle...

And a certain Chris Morris Written TV Special....

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Post #: 31

RE: Four Lions - 14/5/2010 11:37:55 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26905
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From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveTheStampede

However, I can already sense that this is one of those arguments/debates that will go around, and around, and around, in a never ending cycle...

With little or actual value as well........

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 32

RE: Four Lions - 14/5/2010 11:48:18 PM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

Bottom line is every post on this whole forum is a subjective take dressed up(sometimes!) as a perverse objectivity.
The definition of "worth" is completely subjective,but the art comparason i made would be something like fawning over a Hirst cow exhibit which i personally find worthless...again very personal opinion...others hail it as genuis..what do i know?
Back on topic,this is a sensitive subject handled badly,and that makes it bad,not necessarily the subject matter itself.
Hey,i live in a country that banned the Life Of Brian,and it's bloody great!So i'm not saying anything possibly politically/morally delicate is off limits.
Just didn't like it.

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Post #: 33

RE: Four Lions - 15/5/2010 12:07:07 AM

Deviation

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Subjectivity doesn't mean one shouldn't debate on the film (or art) though, or show some analysis of it. That would be missing the entire point of a forum.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 34

RE: Four Lions - 15/5/2010 12:19:13 AM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

I agree,but do you not think that sometimes people on forums try to write as if they were film reviewers ie trying to put across a seemingly objective view that is completely subjective?
There's nothing wrong with subjectivity,just wish people would refrain from feigned objectivity to prove a point that was/is subjective in the first place!
You could go round in circles with this one all right!

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Post #: 35

RE: Four Lions - 15/5/2010 12:40:02 AM

Deviation

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It depends, just becuase something is subjective doesn't make it well thought or reasoned or interpreted. And I don't really mind if someone posted reviews as if it were objective, doesn't make what they have to say less relevant, it's when they post poor comments with little or no insight aside from "I didn't like this film" is when it annoys and defend it that it their subjective opinion and that's the end of all things.

And calling something worthless did not at all say anything on the film, or art, and the calling on film critics did seem like an attack. Not saying you did, but it seem you were attacking those people who actually enjoyed this film.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to BOHEMIANBOB)

Post #: 36

RE: Four Lions - 15/5/2010 8:59:38 AM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

I have been to movies with friends and we have come out with opinions that if anyone was listening would think we had gone to different films.Similarly,think of some of the most universally-panned movies,there are still people who will say they are great.
The key point is i'm not saying they're wrong or we are right-this is why we love film.
I suppose like myself when you love a certain film that gets negative reviews,you defend it personally.
Back to this film,in the context of the film,i wasn't intending to go so far as saying it was worthless,but like art,simply taking an issue that is somewhat controversial,doesn't enpower something with worthiness,it must be earned.
I would even argue there is more pressure to produce the goods as it were,because some issues like suicide bombers are difficult to put in any context other than a deep and serious one.

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Post #: 37

RE: Four Lions - 15/5/2010 12:34:10 PM

Deviation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB

I have been to movies with friends and we have come out with opinions that if anyone was listening would think we had gone to different films.Similarly,think of some of the most universally-panned movies,there are still people who will say they are great.
The key point is i'm not saying they're wrong or we are right-this is why we love film.

But no one is saying you should find another opinion right or wrong, there are times when an opinion can be somewhat weak with little or no insight whatsoever, and when it is defended with just a few words that can be said on any film it becomes annoying and makes the discussion a bit vacuous. I have had opinions change with discussions or others I decided to keep, but I did debate them with other people.

quote:

I suppose like myself when you love a certain film that gets negative reviews,you defend it personally.

Hell yes I do.

Anyways, there was a film debated here?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to BOHEMIANBOB)

Post #: 38

RE: Four Lions - 15/5/2010 1:34:10 PM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

Indeed,and i'll give you not a terrible film,but perhaps not my cup of tea

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Post #: 39

RE: Four Lions - 16/5/2010 7:01:42 AM

Qwerty Norris

Posts: 3141
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveTheStampede

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB
That's all fine and dandy,i completely agree with your sentiments, but i don't find this film funny!

So be it. Humour is subjective. However, if you completely agree with my sentiments, then you understand the point of the movie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB
Film fans/critics are like art fans/critics they see value sometimes in things that are simply worthless.

As defined by whom? You? Me? Some magical arbiter of what does and does not have worth?

As far as I am concerned, this film has worth because, whether you find it funny or not, it actually dares to mock the misguided twats that think blowing up people on buses and trains will get them in to heaven. It has worth because every time these jackasses are ridiculed, they lose their power to terrify.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB
What next?A comedy about paedophilia?

Strawman. Paedophilia isn't an ideology that one can be indoctrinated into, it is a sexual preference. Having said that, watch the Excel Saga anime. It's already (sort of) been done.

However, I can already sense that this is one of those arguments/debates that will go around, and around, and around, in a never ending cycle...

And a certain Chris Morris Written TV Special....

And I was just about to point that out!

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Post #: 40

- 16/5/2010 9:35:28 AM

Eddyhaynes140693

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/11/2008

I thought is was a very funny film, it was a clever script that reinforced the comedy in their characters and their realtionships, while highlighting the confused ideals of radical islams and the riclousness killing yourself for something you don"t really believe in . I didn't find it offensive as really it was just a film about a group of misfits friends, and times it was so exacturated that it too the film away from reality, although seen in which the family talk so openly of sucide did leave with a uneasy feeling in my stomach. In the end I feel it as a good film that was more slapstick than provocative.

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Post #: 41

RE: - 16/5/2010 10:26:32 AM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

That's my point really,the subject matter would have made for a better film had the approach been more provocative as opposed the Larry and Mo road taken.

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Post #: 42

Four Lions - 16/5/2010 10:26:42 AM

rancorpuppet

Posts: 229
Joined: 3/8/2008

Asian/Muslim moviegoers like myself have had very little "voice" in British cinema. The last film I can remember that gave a neat, realistic view of my life onscreen was Ken Loach's 'Ae Fond Kiss' (appealing to my even more multi-category demographic, Scottish/Asian/Muslim ;) )
'Four Lions' is "our" (dare I say "our"?) 'Blazing Saddles' - this film will, hopefully, take the bite out of the highly offensive, anti-non-muslim word "kuffar" the way 'Saddles' did for the 'N' word. It is such a break from mainstream fodder like 'Bend It Like Beckham' - and, if I'd seen 'It's a wonderful Afterlife' and had time, I'd do a comparison and contrast between 'Four Lions' and 'It's a wonderful afterlife'.
There are a few loudmouth muslims among my generation 20-30-something - but they're in a minority, let me assure you - who are as wrong-minded as some BNP extremists among non-Asians. This film shores up their plans as grown-ups still playing "cops and robbers" - or "Kuffars and Jihadists" - but which they are taking far too seriously.
There are a few guys, like Omar in the film, who are totally "sound" guys, level headed, naturally charismatic and good community leaders, maybe take youth sports teams at mosque, that, when you sit down with them at coffee, can subtly let slip that they support Ji-haad. However his wife and child's chilling pride and pleasure at his prospective terrorist bid is an added, "Chris Morris" touch.
Waj seems to represent the kind of "chavvy" Anglo-Pakistani who have more interest in football and 'Bugs Bunny' than anything else. Not all white muslim converts (there are some white people born muslim incidentally) are like Barry - but I've met some who'd put Barry in the shade. Faisal is typical mummy's/daddy's boy and his death was very bittersweet - those types are not winners in life.
Just as 'This Is England' shed light on the futility of being angry, young and white - and a violent racist - in Britain in the eighties, Morris stages the final, botched bombing bid to show just how these fantasies of glorious death and striking a blow for your idea of your religion become ludicrously undignified, frantic and desperate. Nihilism in the clothing of idealism.
I loved the film and thought it empowered the progression of dialogue between muslims and non-muslims. The very diverse audience in the Glasgow cinema I watched it in loved every second.

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Post #: 43

RE: Four Lions - 16/5/2010 5:15:03 PM

nhassell

Posts: 237
Joined: 23/8/2009

I saw this on Friday. Absolutely brilliant. The best comedy so far this year.

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Post #: 44

RE: Four Lions - 16/5/2010 8:11:44 PM

skeletonjack

Posts: 1297
Joined: 30/9/2005

Thoughtful, provocative and in many places laugh out loud funny, Morris has done it again. The quiet family scenes I found particularly chilling.
4 stars

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Post #: 45

RE: Four Lions - 16/5/2010 11:12:16 PM

Invader_Ace

Posts: 1523
Joined: 31/7/2008

was great. Packed cinema laughing it's head off, until the drive down to London when it begins to dawn, that there probably isn't going to be a happy ending.

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Post #: 46

RE: Four Lions - 17/5/2010 12:39:32 AM

Cinetalk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB
What next?A comedy about paedophilia?

You ever see the Todd Solondz film Happiness? Not totally about Paedophilia, but involves it, and is kind of dark comedy.

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Post #: 47

RE: Four Lions - 17/5/2010 1:19:06 AM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cinetalk

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB
What next?A comedy about paedophilia?

You ever see the Todd Solondz film Happiness? Not totally about Paedophilia, but involves it, and is kind of dark comedy.

Nope,haven't seen it.
Although i like to think i have a broad mind in life never mind movies,this topic isn't one i'd like to visit.
I don't know which would be worse,a serious approach to this or a comedy one.
I seen Hard Candy which is close to the subject matter,not a good film.

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Post #: 48

RE: Four Lions - 17/5/2010 1:21:43 AM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

I'm glad this film relates to you and your religion,but...
is it not a sad state of affairs for cinema and the Muslim religion in general that you would feel this way?
A Muslim Blazin Saddles

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RE: Four Lions - 17/5/2010 5:25:30 PM

Eddyhaynes140693

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I also think there are proberly few films out there about British Asians and difinitely no comedies about the issues of extremism.
I Can see why you would compare it to "This is England" but I think it takes itself less seriously and if "Four Lions" adopted the same tone it would be very different, prehaps not as enjoyable film. I would be concerned if you know people that would put "Barry" in the shade as I thought he was a Caricature of extremism.
I think we can both argue that it was a good film, that the whole cinema enjoyed however I think the depth you got from this film would not be aquired by those who have less knowledge of the culture and I feel that it would of prehaps have been a better film had it been more provocative

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Post #: 50

- 18/5/2010 7:55:01 AM

carnine125

Posts: 9
Joined: 22/4/2008

Film was a good comedy but not a very good politcal satire. couldn't feel any emathy for the characters. people seem to forget they wanted to blow people up. Im usually alright with offensive subjects. If im watching a movie like this i want to learn something. If anything i became more suspicious of our middle eastern friends which is the opposite of what i wanted.

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Post #: 51

If you only see one comedy about terrorism this year...... - 18/5/2010 7:39:35 PM

zombie mastermind

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Post #: 52

If you only see one comedy about terrorism this year...... - 18/5/2010 7:39:36 PM

zombie mastermind

Posts: 29
Joined: 18/5/2010

I already loved Chris Morris' output, so this came across as a little bit tame after "Brass Eye" and the unsettling "Jam".

That said, when I wasn't lolling, I was giggling or chuckling inwardly.

The debate about taste or whatever is oh so predictable, just enjoy it for what it is:

"The funniest bomb-com I have seen in ages!"

Surely a knighthood is imminent.

< Message edited by zombie mastermind -- 11/10/2010 6:50:23 PM >

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Post #: 53

Fourking Hilarious........ - 18/5/2010 10:53:01 PM

n13roy

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/10/2005

Totally stupid overall, but VERY funny indeed. I can't remember the last time I laughed so much at a Film, BUT I can easily see why some people would be totally offended by this Film..........

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Post #: 54

RE: If you only see one comedy about terrorism this yea... - 19/5/2010 12:48:52 AM

BOHEMIANBOB

Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: zombie mastermind

I already loved Chris Morris' output, so this came across as a little bit tame after "Brass Eye" and the unsettling "Jam".

That said, when I wasn't lolling, I was giggling or chuckling inwardly.

The debate about taste or whatever is oh so predictable, just enjoy it for what it is:

"The funniest bomb-com I have seen in ages!"

Surely a knighthood is imminent.

I have to give kudos for "bomb-com"

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Post #: 55

Four Lions: Back To Basics. - 19/5/2010 1:32:19 PM

LUCASLITTLEWOOD

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From: London

This is a classic British film, based on British humour. If you are any other nationality the chances are you won't get it. I was shocked to see how empty the cinema was but not surprised to hear the nervous laughter. I just got the feeling that no one wanted to laugh first in case they were seen as racist, I think that is awful that you can't laugh proudly in a comedy film. This is no different from Borat or Bruno except it is just lower budget. It was disappointed to see that most of the funny bits were in the trailer but it got me to the cinema to see it so as far as I'm concerned it did it's job. Very slick British comedy, the male alternative to Keeping Mum.

< Message edited by LUCASLITTLEWOOD -- 13/6/2010 10:42:07 PM >

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You've Got To Laugh - 19/5/2010 3:52:18 PM

Bighousewill

Posts: 244
Joined: 5/12/2009

I could write a whole essay on this film but I wont im lazy. I put aside my opinions on the subject matter not being particularly ammusing to me because I feel very strongly about terrorsim and the radicalisition of young not particularly bright vunerable people. I also have a friend who served on the front line in Afghanistan. That said there is a message in this film and it is told using the medium of comedy about people. You have to laugh. Im glad I overcame the offence I took to this film because it is very good, its a tragic comedy or a comedy about seriouse things. Thanks everyone for recommending it.

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RE: You've Got To Laugh - 20/5/2010 9:04:25 AM

Kieran94

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What's this about nervous laughter? Everyone in my Glasgow showing was laughing to the point of tears, especially myself, and it was fully packed as well. Not sure what this says about Glaswegians though.

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RE: You've Got To Laugh - 20/5/2010 5:27:17 PM

DaveTheStampede

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kieran94

What's this about nervous laughter? Everyone in my Glasgow showing was laughing to the point of tears, especially myself, and it was fully packed as well. Not sure what this says about Glaswegians though.

Same here, although with a cinema full of south east Englanders as opposed to Glaswegians.

Nervous? I'm certain a few people actually pissed themselves. And I wasn't far off, either

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RE: You've Got To Laugh - 20/5/2010 5:38:58 PM

Bighousewill

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It was very funny except the whole cinema wasnt laughing when I saw it but thats because I and a fat lady munching popcorn were the only ones there. I was late seeing this one because I initially took offence and wasnt going to bother with Four Lions but I couldnt resist. Im glad I watched a digital screening and I laughed lots especially at surveilance faces. So Im eating my words from previouse post, Four Lions is very good.

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Post #: 60