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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 12:19:22 AM   
theoriginalcynic

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

I like AOTC - it's nowhere near as bad as the fan base would have us believe.  There I said it 


I don't think its that bad. Its by far the worst in the series (even if it does contain my favourite moment in the whole saga), but my bigger concern is with just how ugly the film is. It just looks dreadful.


I think it's better than the PM.  Why does it look ugly? It looked fine to me, several scenes in the film are stunning. 

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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 12:38:36 AM   
adambatman82

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

I like AOTC - it's nowhere near as bad as the fan base would have us believe.  There I said it 


I don't think its that bad. Its by far the worst in the series (even if it does contain my favourite moment in the whole saga), but my bigger concern is with just how ugly the film is. It just looks dreadful.


I think it's better than the PM.  Why does it look ugly? It looked fine to me, several scenes in the film are stunning. 



I just think it looks so flat and lifeless. It's bland and unpleasant to look at.

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Post #: 1322
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 12:41:00 AM   
theoriginalcynic

 

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Ok, fair enough.  Each to their own 

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Post #: 1323
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 2:23:31 AM   
Spaldron


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From: Chair
 I haven't watched AOTC in a long time so I cant really judge how bad or good it is clearly but I always preferred it over TPM and in some places its better than ROTS. Agreed with adam though it does look rubbish most of the time.

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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 6:03:43 AM   
Castor Troy


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 The difference in look, style, colours and effects between AOTC and ROTS is just massive. The only thing that looks good in AOTC is the end battle on Geonosis (sp?) - the rest is really embarrassing to watch. But every shot in ROTS is stunning especially the opening space battle.

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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 7:14:33 PM   
darth silas


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From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

I like AOTC - it's nowhere near as bad as the fan base would have us believe.  There I said it 


I don't think its that bad. Its by far the worst in the series (even if it does contain my favourite moment in the whole saga), but my bigger concern is with just how ugly the film is. It just looks dreadful.


WHHHAAATTTTT????

Whatever you think of AOTC,to say it looks ''ugly'' is ridiculous! It looks absolutely STUNNING!










AOTC is one of the most beautiful movies ever made.On Blu ray especially it looks spectacular!


< Message edited by darth silas -- 20/10/2011 7:33:38 PM >

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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 7:52:16 PM   
Rgirvan44


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From: Punishment Park
 For many scenes the digital sets, and human actors don't meld, combined with the digital sets looking "flat" - one great example is when Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan are going through the main walkthrough in the Jedi temple. It is ugly, and lit badly. The same area, seen in ROTS is much better.

I put problems of AOTC down to the fact they were using new cameras and what not.


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Post #: 1327
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:00:16 PM   
theoriginalcynic

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

For many scenes the digital sets, and human actors don't meld, combined with the digital sets looking "flat" - one great example is when Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan are going through the main walkthrough in the Jedi temple. It is ugly, and lit badly. The same area, seen in ROTS is much better.

I put problems of AOTC down to the fact they were using new cameras and what not.



I would argue that most film fans wouldn't even notice this.  I watched the whole film and it looked amazing, the water falls scene is stunning.  The actors sat fine against the digital background.

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Post #: 1328
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:03:04 PM   
Dave B


Posts: 2761
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From: Southampton
 Personally I think cinematographer David Tattersall is partly to blame as all the prequels look flat and dull. Even in the original trilogy, only Empire can really claim to have stunning cinematography. Peter Suschitzky is one of the unsung heroes of that film.

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Post #: 1329
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:05:59 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18874
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

For many scenes the digital sets, and human actors don't meld, combined with the digital sets looking "flat" - one great example is when Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan are going through the main walkthrough in the Jedi temple. It is ugly, and lit badly. The same area, seen in ROTS is much better.

I put problems of AOTC down to the fact they were using new cameras and what not.



I would argue that most film fans wouldn't even notice this.  I watched the whole film and it looked amazing, the water falls scene is stunning.  The actors sat fine against the digital background.



Well of course you would. You and Silas love the film and therefore any flaws there are you won't notice or don't care about. And thats fine. Just pointing out a specific scene which even when I saw it in the cinema looked pretty bad.

The other thing I don't like about AOTC and ROTS is the introduction of digital crash zooms. No where else in the series do these movements occur, and really don't feel like they belong in the saga. But hey, thats likely a nerdy point that no one needs to worry about either. Just something which irritates me.


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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:07:17 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18874
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From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave B

Personally I think cinematographer David Tattersall is partly to blame as all the prequels look flat and dull. Even in the original trilogy, only Empire can really claim to have stunning cinematography. Peter Suschitzky is one of the unsung heroes of that film.


Yeah, Empire is truely great. Bespin in particular has great lighting which creates so much aptmosphere.




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Post #: 1331
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:11:38 PM   
Dave B


Posts: 2761
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From: Southampton
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The other thing I don't like about AOTC and ROTS is the introduction of digital crash zooms. No where else in the series do these movements occur, and really don't feel like they belong in the saga. But hey, thats likely a nerdy point that no one needs to worry about either. Just something which irritates me.

Joss Whedon points this out on one of the Firefly commentaries. Pissed him off that AOTC was released before Firefly was aired, so technically Lucas got there first. Works much better in Firefly anyway.


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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:11:57 PM   
directorscut


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AOTC and ROTS looks like video games. The decision to shoot on 1080 HD cams was beyond stupid. They have always looked lifeless and fake and will look that way forever.

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Post #: 1333
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:12:07 PM   
theoriginalcynic

 

Posts: 6517
Joined: 10/4/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

For many scenes the digital sets, and human actors don't meld, combined with the digital sets looking "flat" - one great example is when Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan are going through the main walkthrough in the Jedi temple. It is ugly, and lit badly. The same area, seen in ROTS is much better.

I put problems of AOTC down to the fact they were using new cameras and what not.



I would argue that most film fans wouldn't even notice this.  I watched the whole film and it looked amazing, the water falls scene is stunning.  The actors sat fine against the digital background.



Well of course you would. You and Silas love the film and therefore any flaws there are you won't notice or don't care about. And thats fine. Just pointing out a specific scene which even when I saw it in the cinema looked pretty bad.

The other thing I don't like about AOTC and ROTS is the introduction of digital crash zooms. No where else in the series do these movements occur, and really don't feel like they belong in the saga. But hey, thats likely a nerdy point that no one needs to worry about either. Just something which irritates me.



To be honest I don't generally notice these things in any films.  Most HD pictures look stunning to me as I can still remember how bad VHS used to be, unless there's crazy amounts of grain of course.  But there's nothing flat about AOTC's to me.  I wouldn't say I loved it - it's a good film but not a great film.

< Message edited by theoriginalcynic -- 20/10/2011 8:15:38 PM >

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Post #: 1334
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:14:39 PM   
theoriginalcynic

 

Posts: 6517
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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

AOTC and ROTS looks like video games. The decision to shoot on 1080 HD cams was beyond stupid. They have always looked lifeless and fake and will look that way forever.


Hmm I though 1080 HD was a good thing?

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Post #: 1335
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:24:17 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

AOTC and ROTS looks like video games. The decision to shoot on 1080 HD cams was beyond stupid. They have always looked lifeless and fake and will look that way forever.


Hmm I though 1080 HD was a good thing?



Do you have consider 1080p when buying LED?

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
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Post #: 1336
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 8:32:01 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 9826
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quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

AOTC and ROTS looks like video games. The decision to shoot on 1080 HD cams was beyond stupid. They have always looked lifeless and fake and will look that way forever.


Hmm I though 1080 HD was a good thing?



Not compared to 35mm it ain't.

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Post #: 1337
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 10:21:13 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
 I really don't get this whole " it looks flat and lifeless" thing.I watch AOTC(and the other SW films) on a 40" HD TV through my ps3 and it looks wonderful.The speeder chase through Coruscant,the fields of Naboo,the action in space and on the ground,it all looks fantastic to me.

The scene where Anakin and Padme have their picnic in the fields of Naboo look absolutely gorgeous and really showed to me the benefit of the upgrade from DVD to Blu ray.

AOTC isn't flawless,but it's a REALLY good looking film.

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Post #: 1338
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 20/10/2011 10:27:39 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18874
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 It felt like 3D objects (the actors) being placed in 2D settings (the digital sets) - it wasn't all bad, but the difference between AOTC and ROTS is like night and day. 

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Post #: 1339
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 21/10/2011 7:08:03 AM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


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From: PLANET G
 i love the bombastic and epic look of the film but agree that it looks quite ugly in the way the human actors and digital sets are put together. I had never been distracted by this until i saw the blu ray, the techniques really jump out there and whilst the PQ is very good, it shows up just how bad the composition work is

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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 21/10/2011 11:02:09 AM   
Cruisecontroller


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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15399909

Should be good. Love the French & Saunders Phantom Menace spoof mentioned in this article too. Do they show clips of that in the spoofs doc on the blu ray? I haven`t got around to that yet?

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Post #: 1341
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 21/10/2011 6:09:19 PM   
Spaldron


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Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruisecontroller

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15399909

Should be good. Love the French & Saunders Phantom Menace spoof mentioned in this article too. Do they show clips of that in the spoofs doc on the blu ray? I haven`t got around to that yet?


Ha, finally some Star Wars news to look forward too.

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And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
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And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 1342
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 21/10/2011 6:14:27 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 7658
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From: PLANET G
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

i meant the fact that TPM was shot on film and to my eyes looks much better as a result, rather than AOTC and ROTS which were shot on hi definition video. I've never been a huge fan of hi def video of natural things like people and locations and have always preffered film in that regard. I think TPM looks better on the blu ray than AOTC, i think the hi def video look of AOTC kind of suffers. ROTS looks better than AOTC.


But what is it about Clones that makes you look at it and say, "it looks like it was shot on video" as opposed to Menace which makes you say, "it looks like it was shot on film?"

I'm not trying to trap you. I'm genuinely curious what it is that you see that makes one look different to the other. It can't be the grain as that has been fairly well eliminated, and that can be faked anyway.



not wanting to turn this around DPP mate but don't YOU think they ;look different? I can't see how anyone couldn't. I'm no technical expert so can only define one as looking like film and the other looking like video. To me, when things are shot on video, the look is different, and i do prefer the look of film. Sorry i can't give you a more technically sound response, it just how they look to me. Film looks better IMO.

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RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 21/10/2011 8:13:50 PM   
Scruffybobby


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

i meant the fact that TPM was shot on film and to my eyes looks much better as a result, rather than AOTC and ROTS which were shot on hi definition video. I've never been a huge fan of hi def video of natural things like people and locations and have always preffered film in that regard. I think TPM looks better on the blu ray than AOTC, i think the hi def video look of AOTC kind of suffers. ROTS looks better than AOTC.


But what is it about Clones that makes you look at it and say, "it looks like it was shot on video" as opposed to Menace which makes you say, "it looks like it was shot on film?"

I'm not trying to trap you. I'm genuinely curious what it is that you see that makes one look different to the other. It can't be the grain as that has been fairly well eliminated, and that can be faked anyway.



not wanting to turn this around DPP mate but don't YOU think they ;look different? I can't see how anyone couldn't. I'm no technical expert so can only define one as looking like film and the other looking like video. To me, when things are shot on video, the look is different, and i do prefer the look of film. Sorry i can't give you a more technically sound response, it just how they look to me. Film looks better IMO.


I know what DK's getting at.  Take Captain America for example. It was  shot on digital (a Panavison Genesis camera ) and when watching it there were ceratin scenes that did stand out. Not so much exteriors but some of the interior scenes have "video look" like the scene where Tommy Lee Jones questions Toby Jones (I don't have a problem with that though I reckon it looks fine). There is a discernable diffrerence but it's hard to actually describe without getting into some very technical areas where I'd be lost. A bit like trying to describe the difference between blue and green.



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ORIGINAL: elab49 (via Gizoogle)

Gentleman, please - could our crazy-ass asses leave dis thread ta gangstas wantin ta say shit bout a funky-ass bad film?



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Post #: 1344
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 21/10/2011 8:28:04 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
 ^ The most obviously 'shot on digital' film I've ever seen was Superman Returns*. It really looks terrible, worse than AOTC tbh although its a better film I wish they had shot it on film.

EDIT: *Except 28 Days Later but that was the intended look of the film so that's ok.

< Message edited by Spaldron -- 21/10/2011 8:29:04 PM >

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Post #: 1345
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 21/10/2011 8:55:21 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
 I think AOTC and ROTS look better than TPM BECAUSE it was shot on digital.Looking at the prequels on Blu ray,TPM is most noticeable in the picture upgrade.AOTC and ROTS always looked great because they were shot on digital and i didn notice the picture upgrade on Blu THAT much.

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Post #: 1346
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 22/10/2011 1:05:48 AM   
theoriginalcynic

 

Posts: 6517
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I agree.  Superman Returns looks great to me too.

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Post #: 1347
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 22/10/2011 2:38:02 AM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

I agree.  Superman Returns looks great to me too.




_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to theoriginalcynic)
Post #: 1348
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 22/10/2011 1:00:14 PM   
theoriginalcynic

 

Posts: 6517
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I haven't seen it for a while but when I watched it, it looked fine :)

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Post #: 1349
RE: Star Wars Blu-ray Set in the Works Official !! - 22/10/2011 1:02:16 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1007
Joined: 2/4/2006
I think that Phantom Menace looks different to Clones and Sith, but I'm not convinced it has as much to do with the fact it was shot digitally as seems to be the opinion here.

To me the "look of film" is about frame rate, (24fps), motion blur (due to a standard shutter speed of 1/48 second) to defeat strobing, depth of field and lack of motion artefacts. Grain is something usually present but not always. Sometimes it is too fine to see.

The digital cameras used to shoot Episode II were specifically designed to mimic a film camera in those respects. Depth of field was addressed by building lenses which compensate for the smaller sensor size. Once they worked out the exposure requirements (apparently it shoots like slide film rather than normal negative) it was pretty business as usual. The major difference was the use of sperical lenses rather than anamorphic which affects the look of certain aspects of the photography, but is no different than comparing a scope shoot to a Super35 shoot.

I'm not convinced had Episodes II and III been shot spherical on film they would have looked much different. The image capture would have been imported into a computer, completely de-grained and processed anyway.

Superman Returns was very heavily processed, especially the colour palette where the primaries were shifted, and that has more to do with the "digital look" than the fact it was shot on a Panavision Genesis. I heard reports that the raw footage obtained was staggering but was softened to match the director's vision.

There is a really good article on digital imaging here:-

http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-truth-about-2k-4k-the-future-of-pixels


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Post #: 1350
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