superdan
Posts: 7229
Joined: 31/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sanchia
Taking a serious note, there does need to be an intelligent debate about immigration and capacity of the finite sources of this country to cope with it as indeed there are some parts of the country where there are problems due to lack of integration and strain on resources due to rapid population growth which can be a problem (although in my experience most immigrants do tend to try to integrate). However, when you have people who rely upon using the term "liberal" as an insult (it meaning someone who favours progress or reform and is favourable to freedoms of the individual) then the debate is pretty much eliminated at that point as what is their point. When someone relies upon stereotype and generalisation rather than verifiable and provable fact then that too makes the debate pointless as they have nothing to argue with so make things up or apply the actions of a small population to a whole which is also pointless.
Sadly there are far too many out there who do such and they are generally the type of people who deny people are British even if they are third or fourth generation. Rationale, intelligent, debate supported by fact is required not half truths painted with a liberal (there's that word again) layer of rhetoric and stereotype as the opponents tend to have such a want to do.
The problem I think is that it appears that a sensible debate on the subject may be impossible, since for many it seems such an emotive issue. And the way it is presented in the media certainly doesn't help. Last year the Telegraph ran a banner headline announcing that 370,000 immigrants were claiming out-of-work benefits, a figure sure to alarm those of a certain persuasion. Except, the report made no mention of how many of those claims were perfectly legitimate, based on contributions made previously. The reader was essentially left to assume that they were somehow fraudulent. Further study reveals that over half of them were now UK citizens (not a process that happens overnight), and that approximately only 2% of the non EEA immigrant claims were considered fraudulent. This of course ignores the fact that many studies have shown immigrants to be on average far less dependant on benefits than UK nationals anyway.
There is also scare-mongering about the country being 'taken over' (yes you, Phubbs), yet you rarely hear much in the media about the 391,000 UK migrants to Spain in 2011 (a modest estimate, and of people who are entitled to reciprocal benefits themselves). Or how many of the migrants to the UK are students etc. Again, we are left to assume they are piling in from the east, presumably just to feast on benefits. Germany, Spain, Belgium, Sweden and Austria all have a higher % of foreign-born population, while France, Holland and Greece are only fractionally behind the UK. Equally, the UK's net migration figures are lower than Italy, Portugal, Spain, and not much higher than Denmark or Greece. In other words, probably somewhere just slightly north of the EU average.
The fact is, while any immigration system can always be improved, UK migration is not as out of control as many are lead to believe. And using London as proof of how out of control it is ridiculous - it is a Capital and a world city. Such cities across the world typically have high numbers of immigrants (New York, Paris, Sydney, LA etc all have very high immigrant populations).
< Message edited by superdan -- 30/1/2013 8:23:43 PM >
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RE: The British Politics Thread - 
And why does a particular scene in Chasing Amy keep running through my head? 
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