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RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 10:20:31 AM   
steffols


Posts: 7689
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Jungleland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

quote:

And knowing that it's clear for some of these - particularly the likes of the Johnson's and the Murdoch empire - it's all about hating the BBC. They don't give a toss about McAlpine being wrongly named.


Hmm and the BBC didn't enjoy the 'Murdoch empire' being out through the ringer at all.... they are all as bad as eachother in my opinion... anyway, it doesn't detract from the shoddy journalism employed by the BBC over this.


I forgot that amazing journalism that The Sun showed during Leveson. Their thorough reporting of the process was second to none. No wait, it was just none.

The self-flagellation of the BBC may look to some like they are hoping to garner some points for being honest, but to me it looks like impartial news journalism, just like the impartial and excellent coverage they gave of Leveson. BBC have found themselves the centre of the news and are reporting on what is news.

_____________________________

It's midnight in Manhattan, this is no time to get cute, it's a mad dog's promenade,
So walk tall, or baby don't walk at all.

(in reply to Sinatra)
Post #: 5221
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 10:22:14 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54617
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

quote:

And knowing that it's clear for some of these - particularly the likes of the Johnson's and the Murdoch empire - it's all about hating the BBC. They don't give a toss about McAlpine being wrongly named.


Hmm and the BBC didn't enjoy the 'Murdoch empire' being out through the ringer at all.... they are all as bad as eachother in my opinion... anyway, it doesn't detract from the shoddy journalism employed by the BBC over this.


You, as a banker, are surprised at the pay level of someone heading up a media organisation the size of the BBC? Surely the right think everything should work like the private sector?

Tbh I'm not that fussed about the package and think some people are being deliberately enraged by it (particularly MPs who walk away with a fair chunk of money when they're voted out to help them readjust to normal life even though they are no longer employed because their electorate don't think they're good enough - curious not to hear that come up as a comparison).

I just thought they also saw it as a package not just for 2 months as DG but to a man who's spent nearly 1/4 of a decade at the BBC and fell on his sword.


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Sinatra)
Post #: 5222
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 11:05:05 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7867
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

They told the story as everyone else did. It's simply not comparable


I think it is, I have been pretty much watching wall to wall coverage this year and at times you could tell the BBC were enjoying themselves. Not that I am a fan of Murdoch.

quote:

I forgot that amazing journalism that The Sun showed during Leveson. Their thorough reporting of the process was second to none. No wait, it was just none


Err yeah, I agree with this... I never said I was a fan of Murdoch....?

quote:

You, as a banker, are surprised at the pay level of someone heading up a media organisation the size of the BBC? Surely the right think everything should work like the private sector?

Tbh I'm not that fussed about the package and think some people are being deliberately enraged by it (particularly MPs who walk away with a fair chunk of money when they're voted out to help them readjust to normal life even though they are no longer employed because their electorate don't think they're good enough - curious not to hear that come up as a comparison).

I just thought they also saw it as a package not just for 2 months as DG but to a man who's spent nearly 1/4 of a decade at the BBC and fell on his sword.



I wasn't talking about the DG. I think he deserves his package... even though he came across as quite a weak character, I think he's a decent bloke.

(in reply to steffols)
Post #: 5223
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 11:30:20 AM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8062
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Is there a doubt Messham was abused?

Did the BBC name McAlpine?

What specific accuracy issues do you have with the story?


Do you really think the BBC playing the fool would be the sensible option here?

They reported that a senior Tory was involved in the sexual abuse of Messham, this was all hung on a picture from 20 years ago identified by a police officer. Seemingly at no point did anyone google McAlpine to confirm the picture to Messham additionally no one seemingly checked the story at all, as it had already been investigated and written off by the Waterhouse enquiry.
It would also have highlighted that it wasn't Lord McAlpine but his cousin who was originally named with no evidence found against him, and that journalists were all over the story in 98 when they also mistakenly thought it was Lord McAlpine. Fortunately for them these journos checked the stories out before reporting them.

Its rather pathetic to now say they after stirring up this storm they aren't responsible because they didn't specifically reveal a name. Do you think that stands up to any sort of scrutany?
If it wasn't McAlpine surely Newsnight will be running a followup story soon to further investigate this prominent Thatcher-era Tory figure, but I can't see that happening.



_____________________________

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Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 5224
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 11:36:22 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54617
Joined: 1/10/2005
Everyone reported that. Tom Watson said there was a Tory paedophile issue in Parliament. By the next day the newspapers were reporting that it was a politician linked to Thatcher. Not only that, a high level Tory plus a Tory paedophile ring.

McAlpine's name had been known in pressrooms for 20 years.

Newsnight reported no more than had been in Parliament and the press for a couple of weeks in terms of identifying anyone. If anything they were as useless in that regard as everyone else. What did they do different?


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 5225
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 12:06:59 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8062
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Everyone reported that. Tom Watson said there was a Tory paedophile issue in Parliament. By the next day the newspapers were reporting that it was a politician linked to Thatcher. Not only that, a high level Tory plus a Tory paedophile ring.

McAlpine's name had been known in pressrooms for 20 years.

Newsnight reported no more than had been in Parliament and the press for a couple of weeks in terms of identifying anyone. If anything they were as useless in that regard as everyone else. What did they do different?



You are missing very important points.

McAlpines name had been known in pressrooms for 20 years, and had been dismissed as mistaken identity yet the BBC ran with the story.
I just hope they have another name to reveal.


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 5226
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 12:16:09 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18323
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
I just hope that this does not overwhelm the actual story of abuse and it gets sidelined which appears to be what is happening.

_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 5227
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 12:25:17 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8062
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

I just hope that this does not overwhelm the actual story of abuse and it gets sidelined which appears to be what is happening.


I think the actual individual story of the abuse will be overwhelmed with the seemingly systematic abuse of children in carehomes for the past 50 years with the fact they were obviously seen as easy pickings. This is what should be investigated, not sidelined by the fact they think they can stick it on one of Maggies mates. The names of the accused should be one of the last things that come out, shortly after their arrests would be best, because (yet again) you can't trust our press not to go on another Chris Jefferies style witch hunt.

Investigate the story, not sensationalize it by the people you can suck into it. Then again without the celebrity angle the public interest will soon disappear along with any funding for the continuing investigation.


< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 13/11/2012 12:31:15 PM >


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 5228
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 8:44:00 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Everyone reported that. Tom Watson said there was a Tory paedophile issue in Parliament. By the next day the newspapers were reporting that it was a politician linked to Thatcher. Not only that, a high level Tory plus a Tory paedophile ring.

McAlpine's name had been known in pressrooms for 20 years.

Newsnight reported no more than had been in Parliament and the press for a couple of weeks in terms of identifying anyone. If anything they were as useless in that regard as everyone else. What did they do different?



Watson did not say there was a Tory paedophile issue. He said:

"The evidence file used to convict Peter Righton, if it still exists, contains clear intelligence of a widespread paedophile ring," Watson added.

"One of its members boasts of his links to a senior aide of a former prime minister, who says he could smuggle indecent images of children from abroad.

"The leads were not followed up, but if the files still exist, I want to ensure that the Metropolitan police secure the evidence, re-examine it and investigate clear intelligence suggesting a powerful paedophile network linked to parliament and No 10."

Nowhere there is a party mentioned. Nor is any ring limited to one party. A ring linked to parliament in No. 10 is different from there being a parliamentary or No. 10 ring.


Just saying.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 5229
RE: The British Politics Thread - 14/11/2012 9:23:40 PM   
Ref


Posts: 7461
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Leicester
Anyone read the new Private Eye? They absolutely ripped Schofield to shreds

_____________________________

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(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 5230
RE: The British Politics Thread - 15/11/2012 9:14:36 PM   
SWOTBM


Posts: 1998
Joined: 6/5/2007
Polling day, at least in my area, for these new elected police commissioners. Just came back from the polling station. Sad to see it looking so empty, turnout is going to be pretty bad. Anyone else voted today?

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Post #: 5231
RE: The British Politics Thread - 15/11/2012 9:24:58 PM   
Rebel scum


Posts: 3483
Joined: 2/1/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM

Anyone else voted today?


Yup. I went at about 5 and caught a glance of the number of people who'd voted at the polling station I went to in the middle of my village. It was below triple-digits.

_____________________________

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Post #: 5232
RE: The British Politics Thread - 15/11/2012 9:49:29 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2932
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM

Polling day, at least in my area, for these new elected police commissioners. Just came back from the polling station. Sad to see it looking so empty, turnout is going to be pretty bad. Anyone else voted today?


Yeah I did but I didn't like the canidates so I voted for fictional ones instead.

In all seriousness I did vote in the morning and it's hard to judge if the turn is going to be high. However I'd noticed there were no campaigners by the entrance this time round. Also one of the people issusing out the ballot papers were several pages into a newspaper.

(in reply to SWOTBM)
Post #: 5233
RE: The British Politics Thread - 15/11/2012 10:14:10 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18323
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
To be honest I did not even remember today was the day for that vote. I have had nothing about the candidates through and know nothing about what they stand for.

_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



(in reply to Ghidorah)
Post #: 5234
RE: The British Politics Thread - 15/11/2012 10:22:47 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
I didn't know it was today

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 5235
RE: The British Politics Thread - 15/11/2012 11:20:16 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
Meanwhile, up here, the SNP are making a mess.

Mike Russell throwing his toys out of the pram because a college head recorded a meeting of 80+ people.
Salmond and Russell combining to mislead the Scottish Parliament concerning the funding of further education.
Kenny Mcaskill setting about reducing the availability of legal aid.

Distinct whiff of ineptitude when they should know better.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 5236
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/11/2012 12:00:20 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54617
Joined: 1/10/2005
Did you see the car-crash jnr Education Minister on Newsnight Scotland? Chloe Smith mk 2 - cringeworthy arselicking sacrificial goat. 

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 5237
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/11/2012 1:05:00 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Did you see the car-crash jnr Education Minister on Newsnight Scotland? Chloe Smith mk 2 - cringeworthy arselicking sacrificial goat. 


I did. Pathetic stuff. Absolutely pathetic.



Anyway: turnout around 15% for this police stuff in Ingerlundshire and Wales. Beeb saying that at least one polling station in Wales was not visited at all. Sounds like they've even started reading spoiled papers - "what a waste of money".

They've made a right rickets of it.

Also, some parliamentary election or other had a turn out of 18%! Crikey.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 5238
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/11/2012 1:11:47 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
It comes to something when the turnout for a new Mayor of Bristol (26%) is better than other elections going on around the country.

Locally, I had a similar problem as Ghidorah's fictional problem - I didn't like ANY of the candidates, a problem I fear will plague me in the next general.

_____________________________

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(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 5239
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/11/2012 1:22:46 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
I spoilt my ballot in the PCC as a protest about how utterly little we have heard about any of the candidates. Even factoring in that it was overshadowed slightly by the Mayoral election (which was interesting to follow but you had to make a bit of an effort) I have just heard nothing about it, and I take an active interest in this kind of thing.

One thing that came out of our mayoral election actually, was that everyone got send a booklet with each of the candidates getting a page to sell themselves - more of this at kind of thing for all future elections please, I don't care about the potential cost, if it gets more people to vote because they don't have to go looking for information on potential candidates then so much the better.

_____________________________

Team Ginge
WWLD?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to great_badir)
Post #: 5240
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/11/2012 1:29:14 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54617
Joined: 1/10/2005
I love No 10 seem to have come around to the idea of not wasting money - pity they mean on candidates literature rather than the election itself. From what I'm reading, if you weren't online you got nothing. So those who aren't online - predominantly the elderly who are pretty keen voters - had no easy access to any info.

If ever an election needed an extra option (to vote for NO PCC COMMISSIONER) this was it.


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 5241
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/11/2012 1:35:28 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7999
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
Yeah I didn't like the look of either the candidates round here either. One of them I know to be a right elitist cunt and the other had a zero tolerance policy on ALL drugs. Anyone who doesn't differentiate between a bit of weed and some heroin is an idiot and I try not to vote for idiots whenever possible. It was the first election I've been eligible for that I didn't bother voting in such was my disinterest.

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 5242
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/11/2012 3:15:14 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8302
Joined: 31/7/2008
I asked the woman at the polling station yesterday what the turnout had been like and she just laughed. Apparently she'd never seen anything like it in over 20 years of doing it, and this is in an area which is reported as having one of the highest turnouts in the country! Complete joke and an utter failure of electoral governance.

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 5243
RE: The British Politics Thread - 25/11/2012 6:56:58 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2932
Joined: 6/10/2005
A few months ago David Cameron made a twit of himself on national TV. To cut the long story short he was commited to make stalking an illegal offence but he clearly didn't have an idea the scale of stalking and what it is. He went on to talk about this new legislation and talked about how women are being stalked from men and the police has no powers to do any about it. What offended me that he claims only women being stalked and the culprits are all men. In actual fact it is more 50 50 of men being the victims and women being stalkers. I don't know the exact figures but i can gurentee it's not 100% of victims are women and 100% of the stalkers are men. So do we have faith in a prime minister who is clearly wrong and makes legislations on a one side of a whole heap of complex stories?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20482930

I do understand women are more likely to be in danger from their stalker than if a woman stalking a man. Surely the best action to take is to make existing legislations and strengthen them. At the moment this new legislation may make Papparazzi and facebook illegal. All good in my book but this could open a can of worms for any activity.
The other problem which I'm sure this legislation isn't clear upon and one of the main courses for stalkers. A percentage of stalkers has a mental impairment, which make their actions not normal and can be very damaging. Channal 4 recently aired a program aboult a stalker trying to murder a doctor and her family. He got four years in prison and the doctor family will need to go into hiding before his release. The problem is the stalker is a psychopath and will not reform due to it impairment to it brain. It most likely come out of prison and continue in his hunt for them.
A few weeks ago a daughter of a murder victim said there need to be more done to deal with violent psychopaths. The law doesn't do enough or otherwise her mother would still be alive.
The best action is a danger person act or register. Sending them to prison only going to take them off the street for a few months or years. In that time they will not reform but instead liekly to pick up new skills to avoid being sent down the next time. If someone is a danger to the public then they will need to be removed from society and stay seperated.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 5244
RE: The British Politics Thread - 30/11/2012 11:06:42 AM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7999
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
Oof, it does not bode well for the Lib Dems at the moment. They came eighth in the Rotherham by election last night behind Labour (who held the seat), UKIP, BNP, Respect, Tories and even the English Democrats losing their deposit (again) in the process. They also came third behind Labour and UKIP in Middlesborough. It doesn't bode well for the Tories that the right wing vote is so split either I'd imagine. Their disenfranchised supporters, dismayed at the party jumping into bed with the Lib Dems, seem to be joining the protest voter in supporting the UKIP.

The next General Election could be quite interesting. The Lib Dems are surely done as the nation's third party. At one point it would have saddened me that the protest vote was going to a right wing party but seeing as the LD's are pretty much right wing by proxy I guess it doesn't make much difference anymore.

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to Ghidorah)
Post #: 5245
RE: The British Politics Thread - 30/11/2012 11:53:31 AM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
The interesting thing though is that as it stands I don't see either the Tories, or Labour winning a clear majority either - which puts us in the place of having another coalition - but with no clear third party - and presumably smaller parties will heed the LDs lesson and be a bit more careful about who they form a government with, I can't even begin to imagine who is going to be in/sharing power come the day-after-election day

_____________________________

Team Ginge
WWLD?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 5246
RE: The British Politics Thread - 30/11/2012 12:06:51 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7999
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
I think if a snap General Election was held today I'd fancy Labour to squeak a majority, if only as a backlash to the Government's austerity drive. In 2 and a half years time though who the fuck knows, especially now that Cameron will be receiving some favourable press from his new BFF's at Fleet Street following his dismissal of the Leveson report.

I'm fairly certain the Lib Dems, or just the Liberals as they should be called, are fucked though. I can't see that changing any time soon.

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 5247
RE: The British Politics Thread - 1/12/2012 11:38:56 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
Interesting to see if the UKIP wittering convinces Trish to tippy-toe further out to the right to keep the fringes of his own mob sweet.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 5248
RE: The British Politics Thread - 5/12/2012 2:32:55 PM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7867
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

I think if a snap General Election was held today I'd fancy Labour to squeak a majority


Scary thought....

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 5249
RE: The British Politics Thread - 5/12/2012 2:44:27 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7999
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

quote:

I think if a snap General Election was held today I'd fancy Labour to squeak a majority


Scary thought....


Not half as scary as the thought of this bunch of clowns being in power for another 2 and a half years.

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to Sinatra)
Post #: 5250
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