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RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/11/2012 11:12:39 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
Ignoring the opportunistic Tory nobody laying into the Beeb on the news at the moment one thing confuses me. Newsnight didn't give out a name (and, IMO, it would be difficult to put out a statement made by a name they weren't going to give so I can kind of understand that). So how, exactly, did Lord McAlpine's name get into the public domain? 

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Post #: 5191
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 10:49:24 AM   
sanchia


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From: Norwich
Apparently that reliable source of information Twitter. There have been malicious rumours about him for years and people obviously found it time to try to drive the malevolence home. The thing I do not understand is that he is apparently the person named by the person from the care home who was abused but yesterday it was a case of "after seeing a photograph of the peer he realised it was not him". So it was a case that he was named without the victim ever having seen a picture of him and not knowing what he looked like?

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Post #: 5192
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 11:02:35 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
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This is what the victim has said.

quote:

A victim of sexual abuse while he was a resident of a north Wales care home has apologised for making false allegations against a Conservative politician.

Steve Messham said police had shown him a picture of his abuser but incorrectly told him the man was Lord McAlpine.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20269114

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Post #: 5193
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 12:06:55 PM   
kumar


Posts: 5220
Joined: 2/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

This is what the victim has said.

quote:

A victim of sexual abuse while he was a resident of a north Wales care home has apologised for making false allegations against a Conservative politician.

Steve Messham said police had shown him a picture of his abuser but incorrectly told him the man was Lord McAlpine.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20269114


Im glad he came out and apologised, but I cant imagine the embarrasment he must feel. The damage of it all is done anyway now. Saw DC on this morning and couldnt really understand what Phillip Schofield was trying to do.... really made himself look a complete muppet when ive always thought otherwise. I sided with Cameron (??) who presented himself well. Though his comments included gay people, so im missing something here.

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Post #: 5194
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 12:39:35 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

This is what the victim has said.

quote:

A victim of sexual abuse while he was a resident of a north Wales care home has apologised for making false allegations against a Conservative politician.

Steve Messham said police had shown him a picture of his abuser but incorrectly told him the man was Lord McAlpine.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20269114


According to the journo who has been fighting his corner since the early 90s (I think, datewise) the words also used were that's what the man told him and a second victim as part of the threat to keep them quiet. Which is either a slightly different story or part of the reason for the police cock-up maybe.


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quote:

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Post #: 5195
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 2:31:01 PM   
Rgirvan44


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What a horrible mess. This Morning is going to be interesting on Monday as well.

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Post #: 5196
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 2:35:01 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
Again, why are the police being all but ignored in all of this. The multiple Saville accusations apparently not followed through. And this where the claim is the police told him the wrong name (unless it was someone else called McAlpine) and this misidentification has meant the man has probably been talked about in a similar way to Savile for the last 2 decades and perhaps demonstrates why everyone 'knowing' didn' actually mean everyone was right. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5197
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 7:32:09 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2870
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This has a sinister feel of Girl With A Dragon Tatoo. If the story further develope then I can see a film will be made.

Channel 4 news today annouced a decease victim also was given the name of Lord ********* when showed a photo by the police. The same Lord who is claiming he is falsly accused. This raise some damaging questions of who is this bloke in the photo, why the confusion with *********** and why he and the Government diverting the attention away from it.

Thank god we have at least one major news channel still asking questions. At the moment anyone who is trying to expose this conspiracy is being silence by the Government and is being punish through it smear campaign. The question is why?

< Message edited by Ghidorah -- 10/11/2012 7:46:03 PM >

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Post #: 5198
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 8:57:27 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
Beeb apparently making a statement at 9pm

Hopefully not another ludicrous piece of hara-kiri.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5199
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 9:15:07 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12120
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Director General George Entwistle resigns.

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Post #: 5200
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 9:38:37 PM   
chilipenguin


Posts: 1068
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From: Edinburgh
Two months in the job. Absolutely mental. Paxo for the next DG?

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Post #: 5201
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 9:39:05 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
One thing you can say, he has taken corporate responsibility to heart and has shown more class than a lot of politicians in recent times. Having only taken the job 54 days ago i get the impression he may have wanted out any way.

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Post #: 5202
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/11/2012 9:53:05 PM   
Skiba


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From: London
It's a quite extraordinary set of circumstances. Yes, he is ultimately responsible for content, but Newsnight is not some small rogue programme that should need clearance from the top each time it airs.

I'm really worried that this is just another step in tearing down the BBC. We need the BBC.

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Post #: 5203
RE: The British Politics Thread - 11/11/2012 9:00:31 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
I think this is slightly different. Any other DG maybe but Entwhistle is also somewhat tainted by the fact he was involved in the first story and the transmission of the Saville tributes so there seemed to be a feeling there was either a bit of a fluff going on there or he was amazingly obtuse about the whole thing.

I tend to agree about the second - the entire point of Newsnight at the moment was that they've put it under a more independent oversight to keep an eye on the programme while the other matter is being investigated. I'd have thought the last thing they'd want to be doing is to be seen to be interfering in that as it was entirely the point not to do so.

If the Beeb's desperate need to bend over and be shafted rather than come out fighting it's very overt enemies has damaged it I may never forgive them. Grow some balls!

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5204
RE: The British Politics Thread - 11/11/2012 1:40:16 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2870
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


If the Beeb's desperate need to bend over and be shafted rather than come out fighting it's very overt enemies has damaged it I may never forgive them. Grow some balls!


Completely agree.

This attack on the BBC feel like a conspiracy and diverting away from the real news of several members of the Conservative party were involved in a pedo ring.

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Post #: 5205
RE: The British Politics Thread - 11/11/2012 2:19:49 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
It does appear that the enemies are massing at the gates on this one. It appears from reports that Newsnight went out of house for this report.

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Post #: 5206
RE: The British Politics Thread - 11/11/2012 8:32:01 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 7969
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


If the Beeb's desperate need to bend over and be shafted rather than come out fighting it's very overt enemies has damaged it I may never forgive them. Grow some balls!


Completely agree.

This attack on the BBC feel like a conspiracy and diverting away from the real news of several members of the Conservative party were involved in a pedo ring.


Shouldn't that be the real story that a member of the old cabinet was falsely accused by the BBC and now with a bit of luck both of them and Messham having the arse sued off them.

This might actually have an impact on those morons who still seem to think posting baseless accusations on the internet is acceptable.

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Post #: 5207
RE: The British Politics Thread - 11/11/2012 8:43:13 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
The BBC named no-one and effectively repeated a story that had started some days earlier with Watson raising it in Parliament and every paper reporting it. By a couple of days after that it had been narrowed down to someone near Thatcher. All before Newsnight said a word.

In addition, the false story about this man has apparently been around for 2 decades. And if you read it properly, and look at the additional investigation by Channel 4 news, you'll see it was the police who are the ones being accused of bringing the name into the investigation in the first place (not only to Messham but to a second victim of abuse).

Newsnight did not lead to the naming of McAlpine. And has been said many times today - any tab that attacks Newsnight that also eg was done for basically accusing Chris Jeffries of murder is at it. I particularly enjoyed the comparison of the Sun on Sunday's ludicrously hypocritical front page today to the front of the Sun a year ago with Jeffries. The Sun and it's stablemates sacked no-one for that, investigated nothing and all they ever did with the evidence from hacking was cover-up. They've got a bloody cheek to criticise anything at the BBC IMO.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 11/11/2012 10:23:39 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5208
RE: The British Politics Thread - 11/11/2012 9:57:12 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
It is true, It was only when the denials began that the person named was actually named on the BBC. This was mentioned on the Talkback section of BBC Breakfast on Saturday.

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Post #: 5209
RE: The British Politics Thread - 11/11/2012 10:24:53 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
I think the Beeb haters have over-stretched their criticism here and, hopefully, it will come back to bite them.

Yes, the Beeb screwed up - but the enjoyment in some quarters is nauseating enough to make you forgive a lot.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5210
RE: The British Politics Thread - 12/11/2012 11:04:02 AM   
steffols


Posts: 7687
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Jungleland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


If the Beeb's desperate need to bend over and be shafted rather than come out fighting it's very overt enemies has damaged it I may never forgive them. Grow some balls!


Completely agree.

This attack on the BBC feel like a conspiracy and diverting away from the real news of several members of the Conservative party were involved in a pedo ring.


Shouldn't that be the real story that a member of the old cabinet was falsely accused by the BBC and now with a bit of luck both of them and Messham having the arse sued off them.

This might actually have an impact on those morons who still seem to think posting baseless accusations on the internet is acceptable.


Second time I've read this today. The first was this from Boris Johnson
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/9671346/BBC-investigation-Smearing-an-innocent-mans-name-is-the-real-tragedy-here.html

Isn't the real story here the sexual abuse of children? The press seem to be getting away from the true story here.


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Post #: 5211
RE: The British Politics Thread - 12/11/2012 11:16:39 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
Both stories in fairness but absolutely- the abuse side seems to be being lost to the extent that tits like Mellors feel secure enough to attack victims.

But given his name was being circulated for so long, how come no-one had the balls to sort out the error then? It's no different from the Saville thing - they all know but don't 'know' or do bugger all.

And knowing that it's clear for some of these - particularly the likes of the Johnson's and the Murdoch empire - it's all about hating the BBC. They don't give a toss about McAlpine being wrongly named.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5212
RE: The British Politics Thread - 12/11/2012 12:16:01 PM   
steffols


Posts: 7687
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Jungleland
I too find it a tad worrying that certain members of the media are attacking the BBC as an institution rather than the individual wrongdoers within the organisation. Clearly something has gone wrong. Entwhistle should face questions about the Savile story being dropped but should not be held accountable for what went on at the BBC from before his tenure. Newsnight, as far as I'm aware, did not mention McAlpines name once. It was twitter rumours and internet gossip that linked the two strands but that seems to have been forgotten.

Also, weren't the Police the ones that showed the picture of McAlpine to Messham? And how on earth did Messham manage to mistake his abuser with McAlpine if McAlpine wasn't his abuser? It's all very cloudy and the BBC is taking the fall for it all. Questions need to be asked of other institutions and people but that is being forgotten because the tabloid press is enjoying this self-flagellation far too much.

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Post #: 5213
RE: The British Politics Thread - 12/11/2012 1:56:39 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
The ironic thing is that a lot of the places attacking the BBC were involved in the hacking scandal and it took ages for people to resign or be sacked over those issues so it all reeks of hypocrisy on a grand scale.

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Post #: 5214
RE: The British Politics Thread - 12/11/2012 4:18:42 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1170
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
The thing is I actually respect the BBC. They have done wrong and have admitted so. But what I find brilliant is that the BBC News has had some of the hardest hitting and in depth reporting on its OWN company.  If this was at the doors of SKY News or ITN they would never report on their own network in the manner the BBC are doing so on themselves. I think itís great that this organisation can still be independent even when looking at itself.

I hope that above makes sense lol

The Toryís and other networks are biting hard at the BBC right now and are all but ignoring the bigger picture. All they are interested in, in revege for the coverage of Murdoch and clan and his tory mates IMO

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Post #: 5215
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 9:16:14 AM   
Sinatra

 

Posts: 7808
Joined: 3/10/2005
The new guy who has taken the reins doesn't fill me with optimism... didn't handle any of his interviews well yesterday.

The BBC have fucked up big time with this Newsnight mess and heads should roll.... I also can't believe how much some of these people earn... and they say Bankers are overpaid... sheeesh..!

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Post #: 5216
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 9:16:49 AM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 7969
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: steffols
Second time I've read this today. The first was this from Boris Johnson
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/9671346/BBC-investigation-Smearing-an-innocent-mans-name-is-the-real-tragedy-here.html

Isn't the real story here the sexual abuse of children? The press seem to be getting away from the true story here.


No it isn't, the story now is why were the BBC so desperate to report a story that they didn't do any sort of investigation into its credibility before putting it out to the general public. Additionally what is happening with the UK printed press at the moment as to why they were all only to happy to go running with this story, again without any checks into its accuracy. The reason being is that the public seemingly want to read this sensationalist shite, and talk about it on social media without any control over whom they accuse or what they insinuate.

Currently the press seem to have a sick fascination with sensationalizing child abuse cases and the coverage of the Saville case showed how low the standard of journalism currently is in this country. It also shines a sickening light on what the general populous want to read, and what they think is news. All these so called journalists must have heard about these stories for years, yet none of them chose to investigate and expose it, and now they are lapping it up looking for any tedious link for an excuse for a side story.
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< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 13/11/2012 9:18:52 AM >


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Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


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Post #: 5217
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 9:24:52 AM   
Sinatra

 

Posts: 7808
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

And knowing that it's clear for some of these - particularly the likes of the Johnson's and the Murdoch empire - it's all about hating the BBC. They don't give a toss about McAlpine being wrongly named.


Hmm and the BBC didn't enjoy the 'Murdoch empire' being out through the ringer at all.... they are all as bad as eachother in my opinion... anyway, it doesn't detract from the shoddy journalism employed by the BBC over this.

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Post #: 5218
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 9:31:56 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
I can't remember if I said it here or not but it is evidence that knee jerk reactions and policy put in place as a result of such (the Savile affair) is never a good thing and is never well thought out. It also suggests that they may be averse to taking investigations out of house again as they did in this example.

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Post #: 5219
RE: The British Politics Thread - 13/11/2012 10:05:35 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: steffols
Second time I've read this today. The first was this from Boris Johnson
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/9671346/BBC-investigation-Smearing-an-innocent-mans-name-is-the-real-tragedy-here.html

Isn't the real story here the sexual abuse of children? The press seem to be getting away from the true story here.


No it isn't, the story now is why were the BBC so desperate to report a story that they didn't do any sort of investigation into its credibility before putting it out to the general public. Additionally what is happening with the UK printed press at the moment as to why they were all only to happy to go running with this story, again without any checks into its accuracy. The reason being is that the public seemingly want to read this sensationalist shite, and talk about it on social media without any control over whom they accuse or what they insinuate.

Currently the press seem to have a sick fascination with sensationalizing child abuse cases and the coverage of the Saville case showed how low the standard of journalism currently is in this country. It also shines a sickening light on what the general populous want to read, and what they think is news. All these so called journalists must have heard about these stories for years, yet none of them chose to investigate and expose it, and now they are lapping it up looking for any tedious link for an excuse for a side story.
"Status Quo have a new album out, so then lads did you ever see any kiddie fiddling when you were at TOTP in the 70s?"


Is there a doubt Messham was abused?

Did the BBC name McAlpine?

What specific accuracy issues do you have with the story?

quote:

Hmm and the BBC didn't enjoy the 'Murdoch empire' being out through the ringer at all


They told the story as everyone else did. It's simply not comparable. Back when I wasted money on the Sunday Times the Culture Magazine every Sunday had letters on many pages through the listings. 95% were specific attacks on the BBC. Deliberately so. It's an ingrained attitude from someone with a beneficial interest in getting rid of the BBC. The degree of specific and skewed attack is entirely different. This isn't a left/right thing it's just obvious. Haven't you seen Murdoch's tweets? All of which conveniently forget everything his org has just been through (possibly still channeling that unbelievable act he brought to the select committee). Or as someone said - they'll be hacking the voicemail of a murdered child next. Oh.....


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5220
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