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RE: The British Politics Thread - 14/8/2012 8:49:26 PM   
Sway


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Yeah I just deleted my post after discovering that. Nothing to see here!

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RE: The British Politics Thread - 14/8/2012 8:49:32 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
Yeah fake as ever. Going to be odd when it eventually happens.

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Post #: 5042
RE: The British Politics Thread - 14/8/2012 8:49:53 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12174
Joined: 30/9/2005
I swear almost all I can see on my feed is:

"Sky News: Margaret Thatcher is dead!"
"Sky News: Margaret Thatcher is dead!"
"Sky News: Margaret Thatcher is dead!"
"Sky News: Margaret Thatcher is dead!"
"Sky News: Margaret Thatcher is dead!"
"Sky News: Margaret Thatcher is dead!"
"Sky News: Margaret Thatcher is dead!"
"Sky News: Margaret Thatcher is dead!"


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Post #: 5043
RE: The British Politics Thread - 14/8/2012 8:54:19 PM   
Sway


Posts: 9085
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Albuquerque
Well don't I feel like a walloper.

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Post #: 5044
RE: The British Politics Thread - 14/8/2012 8:58:03 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12174
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

BREAKING NEWS - Thatcher's not really dead you thick cunts. Thanks for the publicity fuckers.



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Post #: 5045
RE: The British Politics Thread - 14/8/2012 9:00:18 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

quote:

BREAKING NEWS - Thatcher's not really dead you thick cunts. Thanks for the publicity fuckers.





You sure that's not the real Sky News Twitter?

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Post #: 5046
RE: The British Politics Thread - 14/8/2012 9:37:45 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
Doctors declare people dead, not the news. Especially not Murdoch's b!tches.

I almost made it to the cupboard where I keep "the bottle" but then I realised I was letting heart rule head.



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Post #: 5047
RE: The British Politics Thread - 15/8/2012 6:50:17 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18188
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19259207

So it appears the legacy they kept claiming they wanted to maintain is going to be massive cuts to sports funding.

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RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/8/2012 5:04:30 PM   
Brundlesflies


Posts: 603
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: ..telepod one to telepod two
Julian Assange granted political asylum by Ecuador

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

Now I'm not sure what to make of Assange - but the Foreign Office does seem to be acting rather heavy-handidly here. Threatening to revoke Ecuador's diplomatic status in order to enter the Embassy and arrest the guy.
Now, obviously, rape is a serious allegation & one I believe Assange should be held to account for (even if the circumstances leading up to these allegations being been made are somewhat murky)

However, I can't help feeling he's got a point in saying he'll be denied a fair trial & faces the very real threat of being extradited straight to the US - something Sweden have not denied could happen


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Post #: 5049
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/8/2012 5:52:22 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
The problem with the Assange situation is that he knows full well America are gunning for him hardcore, the rape allegations all appeared after Wikileaks came onto the scene which would suggest an attempt to discredit him or look for a reason to arrest him a tactic which the US has employed before.

Considering the way America have behaved over the years no one can conclude Assange is guilty of anything save exposing some yank brutality like the gunship killings in Iraq. Still no one knows the full story.

By the way threatening to revoke Ecuador's status over a rape case? That says it all really

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Post #: 5050
RE: The British Politics Thread - 16/8/2012 8:16:37 PM   
Chief Wiggum


Posts: 1919
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brundlesflies


However, I can't help feeling he's got a point in saying he'll be denied a fair trial & faces the very real threat of being extradited straight to the US - something Sweden have not denied could happen



Yes because they were asked to attest that they would *never* extradite Assange to the US - so they couldn't affirm that they wouldn't on the basis that...

1 they have not received a extradition request and could not say how it would fare in their court system, or how it would work with EAW and the UK courts having to acquiesce to the extradition request as well.
2 they have no way of knowing what Assange may do in the future.


Mind you what's amusing is that the ecuadorian embassy is only part of a shared building - the moment that Assange steps into the lobby he is subject to british laws again.

I don't think he thought this through completely.

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Post #: 5051
RE: The British Politics Thread - 18/8/2012 8:18:37 AM   
DancingClown


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From: The Lot
Fairly contemptible:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19300051

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Post #: 5052
RE: The British Politics Thread - 18/8/2012 9:17:29 AM   
Brundlesflies


Posts: 603
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: ..telepod one to telepod two
I love how they use China & Brazil as examples of what we should be aiming for!
Never mind the massive human rights abuses and phenomenal levels of poverty
Clueless frickin' knob jockeys

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Post #: 5053
RE: The British Politics Thread - 18/8/2012 10:02:06 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18188
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
Didn't a report a couple of years ago show that the British worked the longest hours in Europe and often did many hours of unpaid overtime in addition?

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Post #: 5054
RE: The British Politics Thread - 18/8/2012 10:13:17 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54586
Joined: 1/10/2005
3 of them have pretty much been in politics since they finally left education (Raab as a lawyer and, although it says he worked as a business lawyer, the dates imply that must have been for a week or two before heading off to Palestinian politics), Skidmore straight from Uni, Patel straight from Uni. Kwarteng may have had some kind of job but seems to have been an academic author and then politics. Truss is the only one that seems to have had a full job but her wiki page sounds like she's a classic case of a reaction against political parents on the other side. Only one isn't Oxbridge and she went straight from Uni to Lansley,

This is the kind of Tory party they are supposed to be trying to pretend doesn't exist anymore.


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quote:

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Post #: 5055
RE: The British Politics Thread - 20/8/2012 6:03:40 PM   
MrsFinkelstein


Posts: 184
Joined: 29/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

3 of them have pretty much been in politics since they finally left education (Raab as a lawyer and, although it says he worked as a business lawyer, the dates imply that must have been for a week or two before heading off to Palestinian politics), Skidmore straight from Uni, Patel straight from Uni. Kwarteng may have had some kind of job but seems to have been an academic author and then politics. Truss is the only one that seems to have had a full job but her wiki page sounds like she's a classic case of a reaction against political parents on the other side. Only one isn't Oxbridge and she went straight from Uni to Lansley,

This is the kind of Tory party they are supposed to be trying to pretend doesn't exist anymore.



And following on in that vein.................................................

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/20/sell-social-housing-fund-homes

Because of course, we're all in this big community together - just with the poorer types not in the nice areas.

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Post #: 5056
RE: The British Politics Thread - 20/8/2012 6:21:47 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8255
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsFinkelstein

And following on in that vein.................................................

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/20/sell-social-housing-fund-homes

Because of course, we're all in this big community together - just with the poorer types not in the nice areas.


I saw a guy on the news (I think he was one of the authors) defending the report earlier. Even if we assume that uprooting people and moving them out of the way for wealthy people to claim an area as their own is ok for a government to do, I'm not sure how they've worked their figures out. If they believe that 80k-170k houses can be built for the 4.5bn each year quoted, can decent housing really be built for between 26.5k and 56.25k? And if so, why the fuck are new house prices so much higher than that (as we can assume they will be when sold on, what with the average price of a new build being around 216k in the UK at the moment)?

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Post #: 5057
RE: The British Politics Thread - 20/8/2012 11:01:27 PM   
MrsFinkelstein


Posts: 184
Joined: 29/2/2012
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/aug/20/george-galloway-julian-assange-rape

Words fail me...................................................actually they don't. Fecking offensive idiot.

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Post #: 5058
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 7:04:21 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54586
Joined: 1/10/2005
I think there's a certain Polanski-esque re-definition of sexual assault going on for some. What tends to confuse me about this whole thing is the continuing relationship after these alleged events and how that ended up in a police station tbh. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5059
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 9:30:30 AM   
Rinc


Posts: 12833
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt
As Robert Webb described him on Twitter last night:

Galloway: demagogue, rape revisionist, Stalin mourner, Saddam Hussein defender, Milosovich apologist, alleged war profiteer... Panderer to Muslim patriarchy, mortal opponent of and eternal bitch to the great Christopher Hitchens.

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Post #: 5060
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 12:21:45 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
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From: Land of the Scots
He forgot 'cunt'......

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RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 1:36:28 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
And the funny thing is Galloway is, apparently, a really genuinely nice guy away from the limelight.

I'm not defending him you understand, merely reporting what I've heard from several reputable sources.


I'm confused about this Assange business - admittedly I've not been following it, but the last I heard (AGES ago) was that it had been proven that Assange was completely innocent of any actual wrong doing and was only guilty of shagging someone.

Can anyone just sum up what's happened since, in a sentence?

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Post #: 5062
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 1:44:38 PM   
Rebel scum


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Joined: 2/1/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

Can anyone just sum up what's happened since, in a sentence?


Nope, but in brief, a UK court said he should be extradited to Sweden to be prosecuted for the sex allegations, but Assange fears that the result of this will be another extradition, this time to the US, who will probably charge him with treason or terrorism or some shit like that. The result of this is that Assange sought asylum, which Ecuador has given, though pretty much the instant he leaves that embassy he'll probably be arrested since he can't really leave the UK as he's wanted and all.

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Post #: 5063
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 1:50:29 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
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From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel scum
Nope, but in brief, a UK court said he should be extradited to Sweden to be prosecuted for the sex allegations, but Assange fears that the result of this will be another extradition, this time to the US, who will probably charge him with treason or terrorism or some shit like that. The result of this is that Assange sought asylum, which Ecuador has given, though pretty much the instant he leaves that embassy he'll probably be arrested since he can't really leave the UK as he's wanted and all.


That's almost a sentence - thanks.

So IS he innocent? Of rape, I mean. Or is that still unclear?

I'm sure it was reported as being a provably completely unfounded allegation...

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RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 2:46:17 PM   
Rebel scum


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As far as I'm aware, he's not been declared innocent in any way that would help his case. The main argument in his favour that's it's veeeery odd that these two women only decided to go forward and press charges once Wikileaks published the first batch of documents which embarrassed/pissed off every government on earth.

Plus, regardless of how bull it could be, he'll still have to go to Sweden to stand trial for it provided the women still want to press charges.

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Post #: 5065
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 3:02:59 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54586
Joined: 1/10/2005
The UK court found sufficient to extradite him to answer the charges. I've sadly noticed some pro-Assange celebs focussing solely on the condom thing (which obviously looks dubious if you continue a relationship with someone after this has apparently been an issue) but the original reporting said there was a wider case. Whether that's something that Sweden defines as assault that we don't, or whether it will simply be a him vs them no-one actually knows because Assange won't go and face the charges.

I would say that if it's a conspiracy it's an amazingly kak one.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5066
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 3:04:29 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1159
Joined: 2/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

So IS he innocent? Of rape, I mean. Or is that still unclear?

I'm sure it was reported as being a provably completely unfounded allegation...


He is accused of rape, but until such time as he stands before the court and is tried we don't know if he is legally innocent. This cannot happen until such time as he voluntarily returns to Sweden or he can be lawfully compelled to return.

Most of the commentary on the charges I have read has been from people with no real knowledge of the Swedish criminal system, or worse, no real knowledge of criminal justice in general. It has also been highly polarised based on whether the commentator is pro or anti Wikileaks, and rife with conspiracy theories: something Assange himself is happy to fuel.

From what I can gather the major argument (outside of the conspiracy theories) for many has been that he hasn't been formally charged therefore he shouldn't be extradited. However this is where ignorance of the Swedish system is most readily apparent.

In England (and Wales) the formal charges are brought early in the criminal process, usually within 48 hours of the arrest. In Sweden they come later and as their system is radically different from ours it is hard to draw direct analogies. The Supreme Court was satisfied under the English system charges would already have been brought therefore extradition is not in breach of any law or treaty.

There is an excellent summary here.

As far as I can see Assange is using his notoriety, and playing on the paranoia of his supporters with respect to the US wanting to snatch him from Sweden, to try to evade facing the music for his alleged actions. If the case against him is as flimsy as he says it won't stand up to scrutiny so why doesn't he go and clear his name?

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Post #: 5067
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 4:06:45 PM   
SWOTBM


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Everyone's favourite treasury minister is back

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19329758

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Post #: 5068
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 4:30:48 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

And the funny thing is Galloway is, apparently, a really genuinely nice guy away from the limelight.


Every single piece of evidence I have seen is to the contrary but as I have never met him in real life I'll have to take the word of the reputable sources you speak of.

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Post #: 5069
RE: The British Politics Thread - 21/8/2012 8:53:57 PM   
Super Hans


Posts: 2394
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Watford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

So IS he innocent? Of rape, I mean. Or is that still unclear?

I'm sure it was reported as being a provably completely unfounded allegation...


He is accused of rape, but until such time as he stands before the court and is tried we don't know if he is legally innocent. This cannot happen until such time as he voluntarily returns to Sweden or he can be lawfully compelled to return.

Most of the commentary on the charges I have read has been from people with no real knowledge of the Swedish criminal system, or worse, no real knowledge of criminal justice in general. It has also been highly polarised based on whether the commentator is pro or anti Wikileaks, and rife with conspiracy theories: something Assange himself is happy to fuel.

From what I can gather the major argument (outside of the conspiracy theories) for many has been that he hasn't been formally charged therefore he shouldn't be extradited. However this is where ignorance of the Swedish system is most readily apparent.

In England (and Wales) the formal charges are brought early in the criminal process, usually within 48 hours of the arrest. In Sweden they come later and as their system is radically different from ours it is hard to draw direct analogies. The Supreme Court was satisfied under the English system charges would already have been brought therefore extradition is not in breach of any law or treaty.

There is an excellent summary here.

As far as I can see Assange is using his notoriety, and playing on the paranoia of his supporters with respect to the US wanting to snatch him from Sweden, to try to evade facing the music for his alleged actions. If the case against him is as flimsy as he says it won't stand up to scrutiny so why doesn't he go and clear his name?



I've not been a particular follower of the whole affair, but I'd agree with this. The guy seems like a bit of a twat to me - like he's bought into all his hype, controversy and notoriety a bit too much. At the middle of all this politcal pratting and playing around, the guy's an alleged rapist - it's not a game.

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