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RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/7/2012 10:51:55 AM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2788
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
 I got 12. Disappointed. I probably got the Black Death one wrong though recent scholarship puts the death toll at between 30-50% with some extremes either side. Anyway...

Lords reform: who gives a phuck?

I like the idea of Lords reform, not sure I like this idea. Or the timing. I mean in 2 years if Scotland votes Yes will it have been worth using time and money to debate and implement changes Union-wide? If the point of the Lords is to be a check on the Commons is having what will inevitably be party dominated and funded elections going to facilitate that? 1 15 year term seems a tad excessive. I mean 15 years!

Besides, the story has already changed from the actual policy to the intra-party and intra-coalition fault lines it has exposed. Fair enough angle to take I suppose but that shouldn't be the point.

Also, it'll be interesting to see if the Treasury committee make a bigger meal of this Tucker stuff than the managed of the Diamond session.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

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Post #: 4981
RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/7/2012 12:40:55 PM   
superdan


Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

Lords reform: who gives a phuck?

I like the idea of Lords reform, not sure I like this idea.


Yeah, I'm the same. I think the Lords does need reforming, but if it's going to be done I want it done properly. This proposed reform doesn't address half the issues I think need looking at.

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 4982
RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/7/2012 4:38:13 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

15 year term seems a tad excessive. I mean 15 years!



Better than life membership imo.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
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And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 4983
RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/7/2012 4:46:36 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty


I've lived in Ireland for almost 13 years. I'd thoroughly expect to fail a similar test on Ireland. But I'd really want to know why the government would find this important when I've contributed over 1/2 million directly to the government in income tax, levies, VAT, property tax, etc. And as I'm a sales person and my market is export I've probably brought in well over 10M to the economy in that time. Would seriously piss me off it there was a suggestion that I'm not a good citizen cos I don't know a few historical questions.


Lend us a fiver

(in reply to Professor Moriarty)
Post #: 4984
RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/7/2012 5:09:55 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 11273
Joined: 30/9/2005
Hey! Hey guys! I found something else to bash Cameron for!



Cameron cost Murray the Wimbledon title!

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 4985
RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/7/2012 5:28:44 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
 Jinxing Tory cunt!

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 4986
RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/7/2012 5:31:04 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 11273
Joined: 30/9/2005
Well, that's my annual visit to the grown ups "Politics Thread" done with, back to videogames, pictures of cats, and general silliness for me

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 4987
RE: The British Politics Thread - 9/7/2012 5:52:22 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

Well, that's my annual visit to the grown ups "Politics Thread" done with, back to videogames, pictures of cats, and general silliness for me


You should pop in here more often

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 4988
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/7/2012 7:51:32 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 16706
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18778111

So even Toy MP's are calling for Osbourne to apologise to Balls for his accusation of complicity in the Barclays Scandal. If it had not been made on the floor of the Commons a Slander accusation would very easily have been forthcoming on that one considering the complete lack of evidence and distinct whiff of desperation in attempting to pass the buck .

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Post #: 4989
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/7/2012 5:26:29 PM   
superdan


Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008
HoL reform vote is dropped like a hot stone after Tory rebels and Labour make it clear it'll be torpedoed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18778639

Will be interesting to see if there is any fallout amongst the Coalition partners.

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 4990
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/7/2012 6:36:11 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6031
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

HoL reform vote is dropped like a hot stone after Tory rebels and Labour make it clear it'll be torpedoed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18778639

Will be interesting to see if there is any fallout amongst the Coalition partners.


It'll be interesting to see just how much longer Clegg is going to make his fellow Lib Dem MPs grab their ankles and brace themselves for yet another shafting by their coalition "partners". Surely the total lack of effort on Cameron's part to sway the dissenters should be enough of an indicator that they only paid lip service to the Lib Dem manifesto wish list?

_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

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Post #: 4991
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/7/2012 6:45:51 PM   
superdan


Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008
It must really be salt in the wounds for Clegg and the Lib Dems that they effectively sold out the majority of their voter base for AV and Lords reform... both of which they've missed out on.

(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 4992
RE: The British Politics Thread - 10/7/2012 9:28:30 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2626
Joined: 6/10/2005
This change nothing. Nick Clegg will continue his role of a Torie puppet.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 4993
RE: The British Politics Thread - 11/7/2012 8:16:45 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 16706
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
 I am not certain if I am understanding this correctly but it sounds like the proposed changes for social care appear to mean that in the long term the person is going to pay more in that a loan is made to pay for social care when the person is in social care but when they die they have to pay it back with interest meaning that any house etc. they hoped to leave to their children has to be sold at that point and even less is left for their family?

< Message edited by sanchia -- 11/7/2012 8:18:03 AM >

_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



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Post #: 4994
RE: The British Politics Thread - 17/7/2012 11:43:49 AM   
elab49


Posts: 51595
Joined: 1/10/2005
Chloe Smith seen alive and on BBC News 24. Bit desperate - 2 zillion uses of the word househould at a speed the world fast talking champion would be proud of. All just feels so calculated.


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Post #: 4995
RE: The British Politics Thread - 23/7/2012 4:41:38 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2788
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
 Tory Watch, Scotland edition:

- The former list candidate for the Tories in Glasgow who was shunted aside so that Ruth Davidson could get fast-tracked into Parliament and then the leadership has ripped into the party. He called it corrupted, impugned its morality and quit the party. He was awarded a 5 figure sum in an out of court settlement by the Tory Party after he challenged his removal from the candidate list.

- HBOS accused of participation on "an industrial scale" of "thinly veiled criminal activities" across the world. Laundering drug money, weapons, suspect loan practices, not good. Apparently a current Tory minister was a high-heid-yin during the period of greatest concern.

- Finally a journalist lifts the lid on the ludicrous situation whereby absolutely minted public schools get 80% relief on rates while state schools pay full whack. Charitable status. Crock of elitist drivel. Between they saved in the region of £10m. Helping to continue apace the increasing inequality of educational opportunity. Professor of education at Strathclyde Uni (They've a uni in Strathclyde?) says that the "subsidy" is "repugnant."

- Tax-dodging billionaire Sir Ian Wood of God's own Country is retiring from his business. Presumably to concentrate on trying to architecturally butcher Aberdeen while convincing the phuckwits among us to pay for it. Due to employing staff through a company based in Jersey he ripped the tax payer for in excess of £50m. Well worthy of a knighthood.

Political skullduggery, white-collar corruption, social stratification and tax-dodging. Just your average Tory behaviour.

P.S. c'mon the farmers, the cabbies, the immigration workers... there's 3 groups of people I'm nae usually supportive of.

Edit: Oh aye, the moral Tories are getting their chastity belts in a twist over gay marriage. Amazing what people care about. I expect the SNP's dithering may be at least partly because the Stagecoach bloke might decide to stop hurling money at them. Pussies.

< Message edited by boaby -- 23/7/2012 4:45:40 PM >

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 4996
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 11:03:36 AM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6031
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
 So once again the stench of hypocrisy fills the Westminster air.  Apparently, Treasury Minister David Gaulk is questioning the morals of anyone who has the audacity to pay tradesmen cash in hand.  A couple of questions here:

1) Why assume that all tradesmen are tax-dodging bastards?  While I'll not deny that cash-in-hand is a convenient way to keep things off the books, there are other reasons why it may be the preferred payment option.
2) Even if they aren't paying any tax on the payment, surely the immorality lies with the tradesman in question, not the purveyor of their services?
3) Why doesn't he realise that the immediacy of a cash payment is a better bargaining chip when making purchases?  "How much for cash?" isn't necessarily a suggestion to avoid tax, it's more a realisation that you're in a stronger position to barter.
4) What's worse - evading tax on a few thousand quid or totally avoiding tax of millions using loopholes or convenient tax havens?  Me, I'd go with the latter, but then I'm not looking for their donations to my political party.

_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 4997
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 11:08:06 AM   
elab49


Posts: 51595
Joined: 1/10/2005
In addition, weren't they all behind getting rid of cheques, the normal way of paying, not so long ago (before Saga, etc, managed to get them to backtrack)?

For smaller tradesman cash can be easier because they often don't have the facilities for taking credit cards OR it will cost them and paying cheques into business accounts costs too.

It's about time the Treasury stopped attacking tiny targets and got their ass in gear dealing with the real problems - their mates in big business and the City.


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Films watched 2012

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Post #: 4998
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 11:37:26 AM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6031
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
 Also, there are over a million people in the UK with no bank account at all, let alone the many more with just a basic account that doesn't provide a debit card or cheque book and for whom cash payment is the only option.  And don't forget most of these people will be those on the lower strata of society.  Then you get those who feel more comfortable paying cash as it helps them control their budget.

I may be an atheist, but there's a certain Bible passage about motes and beams in eyes that seems very applicable here....

_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 4999
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 11:53:07 AM   
elab49


Posts: 51595
Joined: 1/10/2005
The cash for discount thing is hardly restricted to small traders and cleaners either. You can get the same in retailers - are they suggesting they aren't paying tax either? 

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Films watched 2012

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Post #: 5000
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 1:41:43 PM   
superdan


Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008
When I first heard about this, on the radio while half-asleep this morning, I assumed what he was saying is that plumbers accepting cash to dodge their tax was morally wrong, which I thought was a fair point. Having read his comments however, it's clear he's including people who pay cash for services, which is ridiculous. Even if you accept the rather huge assumption that "it is pretty implicit in these circumstances that there is a reason why there is a discount for cash", it's still entirely fair (indeed, you could argue sensible) for a customer to enquire about the possibility of a discount, regardless of the reason. Tarring customers, many of whom will be elderly, as complicit in "something that is a big cost to the Revenue and means others must pay more in tax" is not only unfair but also leaves both the minister and his government open to accusations of hypocrisy. Especially as we know that the "others" he refers to who "must pay more tax" aren't the wealthy.

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Post #: 5001
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 1:47:16 PM   
elab49


Posts: 51595
Joined: 1/10/2005
Isn't the cost to the economy the stories seem to be quoting the Treasury on - £2bn - about a 1/3rd of what's it's claimed they wrote off for Vodaphone? 

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Post #: 5002
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 4:07:48 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6031
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
 So, with the furore surrounding Jimmy Carr and now this, it's clear where our Coalition stands on tax avoidance/evasion.  Apparently it's only morally wrong if you are not one of the following:
- a Tory benefactor; and/or
- a multi-billion pound company with a long history of tax avoidance.


_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 5003
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 5:20:48 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
 They've got a point though, it's not just rich people and big companies who need to pay their fair share it's everyone. As long they hit wankers like Phillip Green, Vodaphone and frankly their own mates they can target people who accept cash in hand to dodge taxes.

(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 5004
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 5:56:33 PM   
superdan


Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

They've got a point though, it's not just rich people and big companies who need to pay their fair share it's everyone. As long they hit wankers like Phillip Green, Vodaphone and frankly their own mates they can target people who accept cash in hand to dodge taxes.


But the way it was presented was that anyone who asks for (or receives) a cash discount is complicit in tax fraud, which is bollocks. No-one is claiming that plumbers or whatever who don't pay their tax shouldn't be caught, they are simply saying that a) not all tradespeople who take cash payments and offer a discount are immoral crooks and b) even if they were, it doesn't make the customer one.

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 5005
RE: The British Politics Thread - 24/7/2012 6:09:03 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6031
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
 Exactly - the tone of the message was that if you pay cash, then you do so in the full knowledge that you participate in a criminal activity which is, frankly, offensive not to mention (as superdan says) a load of bollocks.

The coalition has done nothing but demonstrate that it wants to tackle the issue as long as it doesn't inconvenience their tax-dodging mates - the embarrassing climbdown on new charity donation limits, the public berating of Jimmy Carr while conveniently ignoring Gary Barlow's participation in the scheme, and now this. Bloody hypocrites.

_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 5006
RE: The British Politics Thread - 25/7/2012 11:18:36 AM   
superdan


Posts: 7227
Joined: 31/7/2008
UK economy shrinks by 0.7% in Q2, which as usual is a shock to the 'experts' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18977084

(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 5007
RE: The British Politics Thread - 25/7/2012 11:21:19 AM   
elab49


Posts: 51595
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

They've got a point though, it's not just rich people and big companies who need to pay their fair share it's everyone. As long they hit wankers like Phillip Green, Vodaphone and frankly their own mates they can target people who accept cash in hand to dodge taxes.


But the way it was presented was that anyone who asks for (or receives) a cash discount is complicit in tax fraud, which is bollocks. No-one is claiming that plumbers or whatever who don't pay their tax shouldn't be caught, they are simply saying that a) not all tradespeople who take cash payments and offer a discount are immoral crooks and b) even if they were, it doesn't make the customer one.


Indeed - it was a frankly ridiculous assertion. Have they bothered media training anyone in the Treasury?

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-qa-spotlight-on-the-black-economy/11005


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Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

Films watched 2012

What are your top 10/25 films of 2012? Vote in the forum Annual Poll now! Deadline is Sunday.

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Post #: 5008
RE: The British Politics Thread - 25/7/2012 12:17:57 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7738
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria
 Civil service sports day yesterday.Gove turned up to play rounders and I helped smash him off the park. Yay!

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Post #: 5009
RE: The British Politics Thread - 25/7/2012 12:42:22 PM   
Harry Lime


Posts: 5106
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfoot

Civil service sports day yesterday.Gove turned up to play rounders and I helped smash him off the park. Yay!

Just having flashes of De Niro in The Untouchables - "Entoosiasm".

_____________________________

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If I get there early will it be the right time
our heaven is just waiting so put your hand into mine.

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Post #: 5010
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