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RE: RE: - 19/3/2010 10:50:15 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

Because they're got a decent amount of acclaim from critics, they must be above average??


Of course not, but when someone is claiming that his last five films have been average to poor it only seems fair to counter that with the nearest thing the internet has to an informed/consensus opinion.

(in reply to FritzlFan)
Post #: 31
RE: RE: - 19/3/2010 11:38:43 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3971
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwerty Norris

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Disciple

Why are people always moaning that Tim Burton only ever makes adaptations and remakes? After Killer's Kiss, every single one of Stanley Kubrick's movies was based on a book, and any director who hasn't written their own screenplay is basically adapting someone else's work...


Yes but none of Kubrick's films ever had a film or television series to compare it to, whilst Burton's last four or five films have - all of which have been average to poor.



The last five Tim Burton films -

Alice in Wonderland. This has a received mixed reviews (53% on RT, so technically has had more good reviews than bad). Out of his last five films this is pretty much the only one where the general consensus could be considered "average". 53% is far from "poor" tho.

Sweeney Todd. Generally well regarded, picked up a bunch of Golden Globes, including Best Actor in a comedy or musical for Depp, who was also oscar nominated for the role (the film won best art direction at the oscars that year). 86% on rotten tomatoes. Its also considered well compared to previous adaptations of the material for the cinema or TV.

Corpse Bride. An original idea from Burton. 83% on RT. Which is far from average or poor.

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Has a surprisingly high rating of 82% on Rotten Tomatoes. Which, just to clarify means that 82% of all of the reviews of this film are good. Of all of Burton's adaptations this is the one that is given the roughest ride by online commentators, but is entirely unjustified. Personally I think that the Burton adaptation of the book is far superier to the Gene Wilder version, which is best viewed through rose-tinted nostalgia-goggles.

Big Fish.Was very highly praised upon release, with comparisons to Ed Wood. Its also based upon an original idea from Burton. 76% RT.

So yeah, consider yourself proven wrong.


Adam I respect your views here but for goodness sake please don't be so pernickety, what I merely said was a personal  opinion – which I'm sure you'll agree is allowed here.

And looking at those four to five films, in my opinion they do all rank from average to poor - although I liked Big Fish.

< Message edited by Qwerty Norris -- 19/3/2010 11:39:39 PM >


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Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

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Post #: 32
RE: RE: - 19/3/2010 11:44:23 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
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From: Penicuik - a right shithole
I liked Big Fish. Hated Corpse Bride, and nearly slept through Charlie and the Chocolate Factory....

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Post #: 33
RE: RE: - 19/3/2010 11:47:56 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3971
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
And to be fair I forgot about the Corpse Bride and had my mind cast back to Planet Of The Apes instead, which I'm sure we can agree on is a stinker.

_____________________________

Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

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Post #: 34
RE: RE: - 20/3/2010 7:48:22 PM   
juanvasquez


Posts: 7615
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: The cupboard under the stairs
Guess I'm alone in actually wanting this to happen then!

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Post #: 35
RE: RE: - 21/3/2010 12:34:43 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
But weren't the 90s films something Burton himself would have directed?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
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Post #: 36
RE: RE: - 21/3/2010 12:55:04 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

But weren't the 90s films something Burton himself would have directed?


I don't know, to me they were always second rate Burton rip-offs. I always felt the same about Men in Black, which felt like Burton-lite too.

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Post #: 37
RE: RE: - 21/3/2010 1:48:29 AM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3971
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

But weren't the 90s films something Burton himself would have directed?


I don't know, to me they were always second rate Burton rip-offs. I always felt the same about Men in Black, which felt like Burton-lite too.



Indeed. Like Mars Attacks - but less fun and satirical.

I guess that's why I get so frustraited with Burton, as given he has a track record including the likes of Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Batman Returns etc - he really should be doing a lot better than he has been over the last decade.


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Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

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Post #: 38
Cara Mia... - 21/3/2010 11:53:26 AM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: juanvasquez

Guess I'm alone in actually wanting this to happen then!


You're not, I too look forward to a stop motion Addams Family version

To be fair with Burton, yes he's adapting well-known stories but he's doing it in ways that have never been done before. Unlike most remakes etc out there he's actually adding something new to very familiar ideas.

Planet of the Apes, putting aside the fact it wasn't very good, was at least completely different to the original, not just a copy/paste version of a classic.

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory I actually enjoyed, felt fresh and fun. It stayed closer to the book and gave Willy Wonka and his world a completely new makeover. It was a bit hit and miss in terms of jokes but on the whole it was a good kids movie.

Sweeney Todd had never been done in a proper film as far as I know and since it's one of my favourite musicals I was thrilled to see it. Thought it was great, Burton's darkest film to date with a beautifully downbeat ending.

Alice in Wonderland had never been done succesfully as a blend of live-action and animation with the White Rabbit actually looking like a freaking rabbit! So yeah it was a real treat to see that story done like that. For the record, I put that film as above average.

So yeah Addams Family in stop-motion...why so uptight guys? If you were a kid you'd be pissing your pants with glee! I know I would be. And I don't soil easily. Find your inner peeing-your-pants child people! Find him!
Besides, Burton will go back to more original stuff in Dark Shadows, an adaptation yes but who's actually watched the series?

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Post #: 39
RE: Cara Mia... - 21/3/2010 1:31:21 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester
I think it's such an obvious move from Burton, which is why people are so indifferent about it. I actually really like the Sonnenfeld films, but I think Burton could probably make something closer to the original Charles Addams cartoons, especially in stop motion. Then again, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was closer to the source than the Gene Wilder film, and it was really dull.

< Message edited by Dirty Hartigan -- 21/3/2010 1:33:36 PM >

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Post #: 40
RE: Cara Mia... - 21/3/2010 1:41:39 PM   
TheSpleen

 

Posts: 1294
Joined: 11/7/2009
Addams Family two is a really good film, it's dark and hilarious and has several great performances.

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Post #: 41
RE: Burton's own visions - 21/3/2010 2:54:50 PM   
Snake-Eyes


Posts: 9970
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: ZONE 2
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hooded Man

Burton is obviously so scarred by Planet of the Apes that he's never leaving his comfort zone again.


PLANET OF THE APES and MARS ATTACKS! - solid evidence that the guy can't do science fiction.

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Post #: 42
RE: Burton's own visions - 21/3/2010 5:15:38 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Mars Attacks! is great you fool. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 43
RE: Burton's own visions - 21/3/2010 5:46:07 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20199
Joined: 12/10/2005
(I thought Burton's Planet of The Apes was OK)

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Post #: 44
RE: Burton's own visions - 21/3/2010 5:52:48 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
*throws rotten apples at his face*

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 45
RE: Cara Mia... - 22/3/2010 12:34:46 PM   
Drone


Posts: 964
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

You're not, I too look forward to a stop motion Addams Family version

To be fair with Burton, yes he's adapting well-known stories but he's doing it in ways that have never been done before. Unlike most remakes etc out there he's actually adding something new to very familiar ideas.



Like what?  Let me guess, twisted gothicky imagery, a skewed slant on well loved characters... Tim Burton has become a cliche of himself.  We can guess what it'll be like before he's even started work on it; so I guess he isn't putting that much of a unique twist on things, is he?

He isn't adapting these stories in ways which have never been done before; he's adapting them all the same damn way, one film is like the last.  He has a few exceptions, but I'm tired of seeing the same old shit.  I was really pissed off with the way he sodomised C&TCF; he raped it of all it's magic just to put his slightly bizarre / bent perspective on it.

He needs to wow us with something original; a great story first and foremost, and fit the visuals around whatever is in the best interest of moving the story forward.

< Message edited by Drone -- 22/3/2010 12:39:53 PM >

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Post #: 46
RE: Cara Mia... - 22/3/2010 1:49:50 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drone

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

You're not, I too look forward to a stop motion Addams Family version

To be fair with Burton, yes he's adapting well-known stories but he's doing it in ways that have never been done before. Unlike most remakes etc out there he's actually adding something new to very familiar ideas.



Like what?  Let me guess, twisted gothicky imagery, a skewed slant on well loved characters... Tim Burton has become a cliche of himself.  We can guess what it'll be like before he's even started work on it; so I guess he isn't putting that much of a unique twist on things, is he?

He isn't adapting these stories in ways which have never been done before; he's adapting them all the same damn way, one film is like the last.  He has a few exceptions, but I'm tired of seeing the same old shit.  I was really pissed off with the way he sodomised C&TCF; he raped it of all it's magic just to put his slightly bizarre / bent perspective on it.

He needs to wow us with something original; a great story first and foremost, and fit the visuals around whatever is in the best interest of moving the story forward.


I will agree that Burton needs to get some of his audience back with a truly original piece of work. And yes, his style has become something of a brand in itself and as much as I love Bonham Carter and Depp, I would like to see more variety in his casts. As The Hooded Man earlier remarked, Planet of the Apes and maybe Big Fish (Ewan...) might have a lot to do with his reluctance to try something completely different. I'd even be THRILLED to see old regulars Michael Keaton, Paul Reubens, Jack Nicholson come back for more appearances.

As it stands now I actually don't think he's adapting films the same way, Sleepy Hollow had a Hammer B movie vibe, Big Fish was more of a straight-forward whimsical father/son story, CATCF was just quirky, off-beat fun (if, as I've said before, hit and miss), Sweeney Todd was a bloody, sombre musical...

I mean you could compare CATCF with Alice I suppose in that they are both very colourful and based on classic stories but I don't think Burton robbed either of their magic, you could say he's just using his own style of magic to tell those perhaps now over-familiar tales. If you feel like a cosy, nostalgic CATCF there's the Gene Wilder version, if you feel like an animated Alice, there's the 1951 version. I happen to like these better than the Burton "re-imaginings" but his takes on both stories I found fresh and a lot of fun.

Btw I would have pictured Burton's Alice in Wonderland to be much much darker than what it was and the look of his Willy Wonka (oh man that sounds really wrong) I couldn't have guessed in a million years...

Forget that last paragraph it sounds like I want to see Tim Burton's penis. Which I don't.

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Post #: 47
Blah, blah, blah! - 26/5/2010 8:13:10 PM   
Stingerblue

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 26/5/2010
"We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God damn you all to hell."

Joined to just post that .

Didn't like Alice in Wonderland, or Corpse Bride. Each to their own. Hope this "re-imagining" of the Addams Family doesn't star either Depp or Carter. Oh noes, it probably will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evil_Bob

You mean Tim Burton didn't create The Addams Family?
I thought it was based on his childhood memoirs or something.


roflmao

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Post #: 48
RE: RE: - 26/5/2010 8:33:16 PM   
Sphinx


Posts: 1805
Joined: 11/9/2006
From: East London
It's only nineteen years old - they'll be remaking lotr at this rate!!

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Post #: 49
RE: RE: - 27/5/2010 12:48:00 AM   
BOHEMIANBOB


Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin
Give it to the team behind the Fantastic Mr Fox(the whole team!) and i'd be interested.
Stop motion and 3D,maybe with these guys.
Tim Burton no.
He is spent and devoid of ideas(sorry Edward!).

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Post #: 50
RE: RE: - 6/4/2012 2:53:22 AM   
Evil_Bob


Posts: 2870
Joined: 1/5/2006
From: GGGAAAHHH!!!
quote:

Big Fish.Was very highly praised upon release, with comparisons to Ed Wood. Its also based upon an original idea from Burton. 76% RT.


Probably nobody will see this at this stage but nobody's pointed it out. Big Fish is not based upon an original idea from Burton its based on the Novel "Big Fish: A Novel of Mythic Proportions" by Daniel Wallace

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Post #: 51
RE: RE: - 6/4/2012 3:38:12 AM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012
I WANT THIS TO HAPPEN NOOOOOOW!!!!

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Post #: 52
RE: RE: - 6/4/2012 7:15:16 PM   
Sotto Voce

 

Posts: 790
Joined: 5/9/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sphinx

It's only nineteen years old - they'll be remaking lotr at this rate!!


Well, its not really a remake of the previous movies, its just based on the same source material.
If the look of it replicates the original cartoons, and someone else is writing it, it might not be just Burton's usual thing.
I just hope they don't think they have to put song and dance numbers in it just because its animated.


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Post #: 53
RE: Tim Burton Making The Addams Family? - 7/4/2012 5:08:09 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States
Bloody shame what this guy's career has devolved into. It's so easy to dismiss him as a hack who's latched himself on to a marketable aesthetic, and yet he is someone responsible for some of my all time favorite movies. Sad to see it come to this.

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Post #: 54
RE: RE: - 10/4/2012 11:08:38 AM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 798
Joined: 2/9/2010
and Dez gave a big yawn and settled down to sleep......

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Post #: 55
RE: Tim Burton Making The Addams Family? - 10/4/2012 4:20:02 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
So it looks like Burton's Addams Family clearly isn't happening, considering the age of this thread and that he's now bringing out Dark Shadows which by the looks of it is just a third rate Addams Family knock-off with Johnny Depp as Fester. The truth is Burton has just become a pastiche of himself, churning out the same old identikit, kooky, goth-lite waffle.

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Post #: 56
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