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RE: Britannia rules those waves..

 
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[Poll]

Should The Falklands be handed over to Argentina?


Yes
  18% (15)
No
  58% (48)
Not Sure
  7% (6)
It's Not as easy as that!
  15% (13)


Total Votes : 82


(last vote on : 31/3/2013 4:10:26 PM)
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RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 15/2/2012 3:21:43 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8325
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruisecontroller

The only way Argentina stand a chance of getting the Falkland Islands is if they can persuade the Islanders to change nationality and become Argentinian. Unless they use some very dodgy and effective propoganda I doubt this will happen. They are deluded and very misinformned if they think they stand a chance. No reputable UN diplomat will let it happen. 


Hence Argentina's grandstanding over 'talks', since if they had a real case they would have convinced the UN to do something about it. There is no reason for the UK to hold talks whilst the Islanders identify as British, unless the UN seriously wants to ignore it's own Charter (which it can't and won't do).

The day the Islanders (and you never know, it may come one day) decide they want to join Argentina then they are welcome to. Until then however, Argentina can quite simply get knotted. The irony is that if they had gone on a 30-year charm offensive rather than burning Union Jacks and trying to cut off supplies they may have convinced the Islanders that there was some merit in joining. As it is, all they've done is make the Islanders dig their heels in and increase their determination to remain a British Overseas Territory.

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Post #: 61
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 15/2/2012 3:42:13 PM   
jediwarrior


Posts: 20016
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: At home eating twiglets
Stick it up your arse Penn and stay out of it.

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Post #: 62
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 15/2/2012 3:48:27 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2180
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid

quote:

ORIGINAL: jediwarrior

Stick it up your arse Penn and stay out of it.


If I may: stick that (explosive) penn up your arse.


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Post #: 63
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 16/2/2012 3:49:24 PM   
Cruisecontroller


Posts: 4447
Joined: 28/4/2006
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16170861

Now Sean Penn says sending Prince William to the Falklands is unthinkable and basically insensitive. I don`t see any UK Falkland War Widows or Islanders complaining about it. He`s there to search for and rescue people anyway. Another over reaction. Oh and we get touchy being accused of being colonists well yes we were but now we are no more so than the US who have Hawai, Alasaka and New Mexico why doesn`t he concentrate on that first.

I saw George Galloway from Respect on 10 O`Clock Live sticking up for the Argentinans too. Apparenly according to him because the islands are nearer to Argentina, most of South America and apparently the international community agrees with Argentina and there are only 20,000 people there. He thinks the Islanders have mostly come there since the `82 war from the UK and can somehow remain British and let the Argentinians rule or we can deport them to Yorkshire! No more valid arguements than that. Not convinced but then again I never am by George Galloway.

< Message edited by Cruisecontroller -- 16/2/2012 5:08:33 PM >


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Post #: 64
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 16/2/2012 4:25:48 PM   
gazpop


Posts: 2512
Joined: 26/6/2010
From: 666 Godwin Street, Naziland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

quote:

ORIGINAL: gazpop
Huzzah, pip pip, and can I just throw in a sheer stiff-upper lipped God Save The Queen? Good. I feel more British already. In fact, I'll put the kettle on!! Or is it already time for Pimms, by jingo?


I'm not the God Save the Queen and Britannia rules the wave type Gaz. I just don't think the Argentineans have any claim to the islands, and therefore no business posturing over any purported claim. I don't think the Falklanders will be singing "God Save the Queen" but rather "Don't cry over me Argentina"...


quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

No doubt he thinks the IRA are a swell bunch of guys, too.


He's probably chums with Mickey Rourke.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

While I mostly disagree with his sentiments some of the reactions to his 'involvement' are amusing. This is nothing new, he's been politically outspoken for years, blasting his own government in particular and we probably would've agreed with him then. Now he's targeting ours we're up in arms


That's because he's wrong, not because he's had a pop at the British government.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Toby Monroe

I might be wrong, but i'm pretty sure I once read* that there are a fair few Argentinians who are of Welsh descent. Possibly in the Patagonian region. Isn't there a lot of sheep on the Falklands?

People think this maybe all about oil, but i'm not so sure.

*by read, I mean watched on telly


Speaking of which, you look like you're overdue for a shearing. Assume the position butt**.

*It's also got something to do with tourism revenue and lucrative fishing licenses...

**"Butt" isn't a shorthand for "buttocks". It's a colloquialism, honest.



Emyr crwt bach, I was just extracting a wee bit of urine as the tone of it was very jingoistic, what what? But I know what you meant.

As for Mr Munroe, I refer you to this:
Many Quakers from Wales emigrated to Pennsylvania in the 17th century with a promise from William Penn that they would be allowed to set up a Welsh colony there. The Welsh Tract was to have been a separate county whose local government would use the Welsh language, since many of the settlers spoke no English. The promise however was not kept and by the 1690s the land had already been partitioned into different counties, and the Tract never gained self-government.

Penn? Coincidence? Hmmm. His ancestor would turn in his grave

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Post #: 65
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 16/2/2012 5:03:31 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:


I might be wrong, but i'm pretty sure I once read* that there are a fair few Argentinians who are of Welsh descent. Possibly in the Patagonian region. Isn't there a lot of sheep on the Falklands?

People think this maybe all about oil, but i'm not so sure.


Considering a huge majority of Argentina's population are European migrants, that really isn't surprising (including British).

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to gazpop)
Post #: 66
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 16/2/2012 5:14:10 PM   
Cruisecontroller


Posts: 4447
Joined: 28/4/2006
Falkland Islands the competing claims from both sides summery item on BBC News website.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17045169

What is needed is hard facts not biased claims though.

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Post #: 67
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 16/2/2012 9:37:11 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
When people told me that Kirchner was something of dolt, I wasn't sure why, I can now see why they say that.

Also...

quote:

She argues Argentina does not need the islands for economic, cultural or political reasons. But she believes it makes sense for islanders to have a better relationship with Argentina.


You mean the oil found there isn't a reason for this debacle? I doubt that.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 16/2/2012 10:27:51 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Cruisecontroller)
Post #: 68
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 16/2/2012 9:43:07 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54674
Joined: 1/10/2005
Quite apart from anything else, I'd no idea why I kept seeing this Paula Abdul lookalike on the news. Ages before I realised she wasn't a reality show judge. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 69
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 16/2/2012 10:29:19 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Maybe because Berlusconi liked her...



I miss him.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 70
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 17/2/2012 8:51:48 AM   
Your Funny Uncle


Posts: 11998
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Sean Penn really doesn't know when to give up does he?!

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Post #: 71
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 17/2/2012 1:11:28 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
I'm not quite sure where I stand on the argument, but isn't the only real reason we're holding onto it the oil underneath it?

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Post #: 72
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 17/2/2012 5:32:55 PM   
mattjtemp


Posts: 213
Joined: 30/9/2005
The only non british who lived there arrived after we'd laid claim, the details are tedious but back us up as much as any history of any country does, most are murky, the clear will of the islanders is what makes this water tight.

What irks is the continual call to get round a table, it's like a burglar you've given a kicking to is hanging around outside moaning they want to discuss things. You can't attack, lose, then bleat we won't discuss it, they can fuck off.

Read the Guardian article comments, they're as cold hearted as any on The Telegraph, callous apologists berating people who have generations in on a community, flippantly saying they should just move, the usual craven remarks from self hating pompous tits who'd sell out their own countrymen to try and appease people who hold them in contempt.

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Post #: 73
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 19/2/2012 12:41:18 PM   
chewbacasnapsak


Posts: 740
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: westbound on olympic
Sean Penn and now George Galloway spouting ill informed bollocks all we need now is Bepe from Eastenders and the purple power ranger to join in and we may start to worry.

Stick to acting Sean and shut the fuck up, irritating prick.

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Post #: 74
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 19/2/2012 12:53:52 PM   
Funkyrae


Posts: 20418
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Just stick a pin in a map

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

I'm not quite sure where I stand on the argument, but isn't the only real reason we're holding onto it the oil underneath it?


But the Islanders want to stay British. If the Scottish referendum showed overwhelmingly that the Scots people wanted to remain part of the Union would we tell them to fuck off anyway?

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Post #: 75
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 19/2/2012 1:13:41 PM   
jon5000


Posts: 1089
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA
Sovereignty over the islands is quite a muddy issue. As far as I can tell, Argentina's only real claim is the proximity. Britain actually owned the islands before Argentina was even a country. And if we're going to get into the colonial issue thanks to Sean Penn, then you have to take into account that most Argentinians are colonialists themselves, made up of mostly Spanish and Italian immigrants. They are far from indigenous.

So the claim over sovereignty boils down to who was there first. Turns out, it was the French!

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Post #: 76
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 19/2/2012 6:37:31 PM   
mattjtemp


Posts: 213
Joined: 30/9/2005
There was a funny article in The Telegraph, an historian applauding Penn's stance against colonialisation, stating they presumed his next step against tyranny would be to hand his Malibu estate back to the Mexicans, sinced it was robbed from them in the 19th centuary, presumably Penn thinks it's more complicated than that.

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Post #: 77
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 8:41:53 AM   
Kilo_T_Mortal


Posts: 13539
Joined: 30/9/2005
Could we give Argentina to the Falkland islands?

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Post #: 78
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 12:47:14 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000
Turns out, it was the French!


"Ze Falklands?"
Shrugs shoulders in that French way
"Muh"

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Post #: 79
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 12:49:56 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Funkyrae
quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

I'm not quite sure where I stand on the argument, but isn't the only real reason we're holding onto it the oil underneath it?


But the Islanders want to stay British. If the Scottish referendum showed overwhelmingly that the Scots people wanted to remain part of the Union would we tell them to fuck off anyway?


Oh yeah, I get that and I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying if it wasn't for the oil, I don't think the government would be all that fussed, regardless of what the islanders want.

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Post #: 80
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 8:46:41 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States
I think SeaLand should be repatriated, and then gifted to Argentina (or any small island off the English coast would do). Then it's an even trade.


In all seriousness, think that they should say that in 10 years or 15 years or something, they will have a vote. It gives both sides a chance to make their case, and there won't be a cloud on uncertainty hanging over the whole thing, for politicians in Argentina to exploit as a nationalist rallying cry. People will know the issue is going to be settled, at a definite time, and hopefully that will help cool things down and make way for a rational decision based on the needs of the Faulklanders (as everyone would want to look their best and not appear to be trying to influence the vote with threat of force).

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Post #: 81
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 8:58:23 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8325
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: King of Kafiristan

I think SeaLand should be repatriated, and then gifted to Argentina (or any small island off the English coast would do). Then it's an even trade.


In all seriousness, think that they should say that in 10 years or 15 years or something, they will have a vote. It gives both sides a chance to make their case, and there won't be a cloud on uncertainty hanging over the whole thing, for politicians in Argentina to exploit as a nationalist rallying cry. People will know the issue is going to be settled, at a definite time, and hopefully that will help cool things down and make way for a rational decision based on the needs of the Faulklanders (as everyone would want to look their best and not appear to be trying to influence the vote with threat of force).


I can pretty much guarantee that a vote in 10, 15 or even 20 years will return a determination to remain British. It is, after all, the nationality of the Islanders. Argentina knows this, which is why it's trying to force the UN to circumvent it's own Charter with regard to self determination by essentially painting the Islanders as illegal occupants, rather than the only thing the islands have ever had that approaches an indigenous population.

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Post #: 82
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 8:59:15 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
As mentioned before just split the oil revenues equally - offer that to Argentina and you're being reasonable.

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Post #: 83
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 9:18:33 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: King of Kafiristan

I think SeaLand should be repatriated, and then gifted to Argentina (or any small island off the English coast would do). Then it's an even trade.


In all seriousness, think that they should say that in 10 years or 15 years or something, they will have a vote. It gives both sides a chance to make their case, and there won't be a cloud on uncertainty hanging over the whole thing, for politicians in Argentina to exploit as a nationalist rallying cry. People will know the issue is going to be settled, at a definite time, and hopefully that will help cool things down and make way for a rational decision based on the needs of the Faulklanders (as everyone would want to look their best and not appear to be trying to influence the vote with threat of force).


I can pretty much guarantee that a vote in 10, 15 or even 20 years will return a determination to remain British. It is, after all, the nationality of the Islanders. Argentina knows this, which is why it's trying to force the UN to circumvent it's own Charter with regard to self determination by essentially painting the Islanders as illegal occupants, rather than the only thing the islands have ever had that approaches an indigenous population.




Yes, that was my understanding of the political layout. My idea was that perhaps a postponed vote might be a more acceptable idea to Argentina, as they'd think they might have time to change opinions and get their way. Whether or not that was ultimately the case, after a long build up to a vote it would be hard for them to refuse to accept the results.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 84
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 9:35:47 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8325
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: King of Kafiristan

Yes, that was my understanding of the political layout. My idea was that perhaps a postponed vote might be a more acceptable idea to Argentina, as they'd think they might have time to change opinions and get their way. Whether or not that was ultimately the case, after a long build up to a vote it would be hard for them to refuse to accept the results.


I said this further upthread, but I honestly believe if Argentina had gone on a charm offensive after 1982 some of the Islanders (perhaps many), may have become much more receptive towards an agreement of some sort being reached. As it is, Argentina invaded and then spent the next 30 years bitching and trying to cut off supplies. Quite understandably, the Islanders are inclined to tell Argentina to go fuck themselves, and I'm not sure how long it would take for Argentina to turn that around (or even how they would go about it).

As for it being hard for them to refuse to accept the results, I sincerely doubt they would find it very hard at all. They did invade the Islands after all. Although if we did as Fluke mentioned and offer to share any potential oil wealth you just watch their politicians desire to possess their precious Islas Malvinas suddenly and inexplicably diminish...

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Post #: 85
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 9:43:30 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: King of Kafiristan

Yes, that was my understanding of the political layout. My idea was that perhaps a postponed vote might be a more acceptable idea to Argentina, as they'd think they might have time to change opinions and get their way. Whether or not that was ultimately the case, after a long build up to a vote it would be hard for them to refuse to accept the results.


I said this further upthread, but I honestly believe if Argentina had gone on a charm offensive after 1982 some of the Islanders (perhaps many), may have become much more receptive towards an agreement of some sort being reached. As it is, Argentina invaded and then spent the next 30 years bitching and trying to cut off supplies. Quite understandably, the Islanders are inclined to tell Argentina to go fuck themselves, and I'm not sure how long it would take for Argentina to turn that around (or even how they would go about it).

As for it being hard for them to refuse to accept the results, I sincerely doubt they would find it very hard at all. They did invade the Islands after all. Although if we did as Fluke mentioned and offer to share any potential oil wealth you just watch their politicians desire to possess their precious Islas Malvinas suddenly and inexplicably diminish...


My idea was spurred by your comment up thread, actually. And sure, it might not work, but it's the best idea I had, and I think it could create an atmosphere of reduced tensions.

It could certainly be accompanied by further incentives such as those you mention with regards to oil revenues.

BTW: my parents were vacationing in the UK at the outbreak of the Faulklands War, several years before I was born.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 86
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 11:21:29 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54674
Joined: 1/10/2005
I was very interested to see in an Argentinian film this evening a character who'd fought in the Falklands. He hated the English, almost as a matter of course, but, arguably, he hated his own leaders more for forcing them into a ludicrously absurd war. I wonder how widespread that view is within Argentina, if at all. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 87
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 21/2/2012 11:58:41 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
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From: Enemies of Film HQ
The war did lead to the decline of the military government they had there and started the National Reorganization Process. That's enough to show they weren't happy with Videla or how the war turned out and how it was mostly fought by non-professional conscripts (or so I have been told, with the whole border disputes Argentina had going on with Chile meant more professional soldiers had to be distributed elsewhere) and the Argentinians were somewhat disadvantaged. I am under the impression they still see themselves as the victims of the whole affair.

Also, you can put all the Muppets avatars you want, we still know of your latest Muppet movie hating ways.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 21/2/2012 11:59:36 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 88
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 22/2/2012 12:17:01 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5113
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So what does this whole kerfuffle mean for the future of corned beef?

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Post #: 89
RE: Britannia rules those waves.. - 22/2/2012 4:24:58 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

The war did lead to the decline of the military government they had there and started the National Reorganization Process. That's enough to show they weren't happy with Videla or how the war turned out and how it was mostly fought by non-professional conscripts (or so I have been told, with the whole border disputes Argentina had going on with Chile meant more professional soldiers had to be distributed elsewhere) and the Argentinians were somewhat disadvantaged. I am under the impression they still see themselves as the victims of the whole affair.

Also, you can put all the Muppets avatars you want, we still know of your latest Muppet movie hating ways.


How do they see themselves as the victims when THEY invaded first. *Reminds self of Iraq War* Ah

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