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RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine

 
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RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 9:48:52 PM   
Rinc


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I might be biased because I love the man and his magnificent beard, but Alonso has been outstanding this tournament

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RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 9:50:37 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8255
Joined: 31/7/2008
Can't argue with that from Spain. Thoroughly deserved the win, three trophies in a row and their names in the record books.

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Post #: 1652
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 9:58:53 PM   
Skiba


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From: London
An incredible achievement from Spain and they have to have a real chance of retaining the WC in Brazil now as well...Torres with the Golden Boot!

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Post #: 1653
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 10:24:01 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10886
Joined: 30/9/2005
Upon reflection I'd say this was a mediocre tournament.

The winners were exceedingly mediocre until the final.

The Irish performances were as depressing as an Eastern European film festival (thanks guys. Way to lift the mood of the nation).

The hosts (two of them!) both limped out at the group stages.

The "young, exciting" Germany flatter to deceive... again.

The "young, exciting" France were complete shit.

LOL Holland.

England were their usual selves.

No world class strikers on show. I was thinking about a team of the tournament and I would be embarrassed to put any striker in it.

Very few memorable goals.

Moment of the tournament: (Non-footballing) Irish fans singing for ten minutes at the end of Spain vs. Ireland. (Bias maybe).
(Footballing) Pirlo vs. Germany.

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Post #: 1654
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 10:27:51 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23701
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From: 41N 93W
Spain were magnificent tonight - even before Italy went down a man, they were controlling the game and never looked like being beaten. Iniesta was fantastic once again tonight (though I would still be inclined to say Pirlo was player of the tournament for his performances before today), Fabregas and Ramos were immense as they have been throughout, and their energy levels didn't resemble that of a team apparently burned out. Much deserved (and surely one of the all-time great teams as well).

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Post #: 1655
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 10:29:47 PM   
Rinc


Posts: 12833
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From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt
I'm struggling to think of a striker for team of the tournament. I think you have to go back to the group stages to pick anyone out. So instead I'd shove Ronaldo up there:

Casillas

Lahm Ramos Pepe Alba

Pirlo Alonso Moutinho

Iniesta Ozil

Ronaldo


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Post #: 1656
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 10:45:47 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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Say what you want about the quality of Spain's football, and there's no taking away from the records they have just broken and all they have achieved but there are two aspects of their game that stick out like a sore thumb.

Their football whilst technically brilliant, makes for absolutely dreadful entertainment.

It's very defensive approach (no strikers in the starting line-up) and just trying to retain possession for the most part. Yet they are met with superlatives, but the Italian teams of the 80s/90s were met with negative comments left right and centre. Bizarre if you ask me, I cannot wait for a team to knock them off their perch.


On a more general note, yet another rather poor international tournament, I genuinely don't remember the last one I thoroughly enjoyed, 2002 World Cup or Euro 2004 maybe? All of Europe's best talent on offer and thats all we get, but I think that's the nature of International Football, can we really expect the best football to be on display during these tournaments? We may be watching the best players in their respective continents or infact on the planet, but they aren't really the best teams, they're in fact groups of players that rarely get together so could rarely re-create the same quality we'll get from club football. Spain may be one of the most complete international sides, but I'd argue Barcelona (which are on the whole very much the same team) are a far more accomplished and complete side (well the Barcelona of the last few seasons).

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Post #: 1657
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 10:55:15 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23701
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
Casillas
Balzaretti - Ramos - Hummels - Coentrao
Pirlo - Alonso
Iniesta - Fabregas - Ozil
Ibrahimovic


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Post #: 1658
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 11:09:55 PM   
Olaf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

It's very defensive approach (no strikers in the starting line-up)



...they scored twelve goals in six games.

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Post #: 1659
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 11:35:02 PM   
James2183


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I'd say it was a pretty good tournament let down by an awful QF round. The group stages were some of the best I've seen with some great goals to boot.

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Post #: 1660
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 11:48:34 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

It's very defensive approach (no strikers in the starting line-up)



...they scored twelve goals in six games.



Should we not put those stats into context? 8 of those 12 goals you mention we're scored in two games, 4 against an awful Irish side, and 4 against an Italian side who weren't at their best and two of the goals were scored after Italy had gone down to 10 men and were failing to (but trying) to somehow get back into the final, an approach that often results in goals being conceded.

Take those away and they scored 1 goal per game, something you could easily relate to a defensive approach, try your hardest not to concede and hope you can get a goal. It's defensive football of a different nature, it's more sophisticated than parking the bus, but defensive none the less. Let's be honest here, they started with formations including no strikers and their and the tournaments top scorer was a substitute who came on towards the arse end of the games.


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RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 11:51:01 PM   
Giant Green Rabbit


Posts: 1109
Joined: 13/2/2006
From: Cloud Cuckoo Land
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc

I'm struggling to think of a striker for team of the tournament. I think you have to go back to the group stages to pick anyone out. So instead I'd shove Ronaldo up there:

Casillas

Lahm Ramos Pepe Alba

Pirlo Alonso Moutinho

Iniesta Ozil

Ronaldo



Naturally, playing a striker-less 4-3-3

Casillas

Ramos Pepe Alves Alba

Pirlo Busquets Ozil

Dzagoev Ronaldo Iniesta


Honourable mentions to Buffon, Pique, Coentrao, Fabregas, Montelivio, Ballotelli, Mandzukic, Xabi Alonso, Pilar, Arshavin, Shirokov

< Message edited by Giant Green Rabbit -- 1/7/2012 11:52:35 PM >


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Post #: 1662
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 1/7/2012 11:52:56 PM   
Ultimo Lee

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda
yet another rather poor international tournament,

Like the very few people who don't find Mark Lawrenson to not be a snidy boring twat your in a very small minority, i don't go along with the over the top "Fantastic tournament" (Good group games, awful quarters, one good semi and a decent final) stuff but on the whole it's been good. Plus 2008 was a very good tournament.

How can anyone have Casillas as keeper of the tournament? he's had nothing to do for most of it. Plus Lahm, didn't play right back


Buffon (Ita)

Debuchy (Fra) Hummels (Ger) Bonucci (Ita) Alba (Spn)

Pirlo (Ita)

Khedira (Ger) Moutinho (Por)

Marchisio (Ita) zil (Ger) Iniesta (Spn)


No forwards for me, shocking tournament for strikers.

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Post #: 1663
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 12:03:27 AM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

So terribly, terribly disappointing to have this game die at the 60th minute. (Thanks a lot Motta - how about warming up properly next time?).

BIG * next to this victory.

If Spain had any class they'd give Italy a rematch.




Oh Spain are very classy indeed, both on and off the field.

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Post #: 1664
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 12:08:41 AM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ultimo Lee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda
yet another rather poor international tournament,

Like the very few people who don't find Mark Lawrenson to not be a snidy boring twat your in a very small minority, i don't go along with the over the top "Fantastic tournament" (Good group games, awful quarters, one good semi and a decent final) stuff but on the whole it's been good. Plus 2008 was a very good tournament.

How can anyone have Casillas as keeper of the tournament? he's had nothing to do for most of it. Plus Lahm, didn't play right back


Buffon (Ita)

Debuchy (Fra) Hummels (Ger) Bonucci (Ita) Alba (Spn)

Pirlo (Ita)

Khedira (Ger) Moutinho (Por)

Marchisio (Ita) zil (Ger) Iniesta (Spn)


No forwards for me, shocking tournament for strikers.



Casillas was the best keeper before the tournament started, and when he needed to deliver he always looked comfortable. I'd have Buffon as backup though

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Post #: 1665
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 12:15:01 AM   
Olaf


Posts: 23701
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda


quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

It's very defensive approach (no strikers in the starting line-up)



...they scored twelve goals in six games.



Should we not put those stats into context? 8 of those 12 goals you mention we're scored in two games, 4 against an awful Irish side, and 4 against an Italian side who weren't at their best and two of the goals were scored after Italy had gone down to 10 men and were failing to (but trying) to somehow get back into the final, an approach that often results in goals being conceded.

Take those away and they scored 1 goal per game, something you could easily relate to a defensive approach, try your hardest not to concede and hope you can get a goal. It's defensive football of a different nature, it's more sophisticated than parking the bus, but defensive none the less. Let's be honest here, they started with formations including no strikers and their and the tournaments top scorer was a substitute who came on towards the arse end of the games.



And Italy? They only scored more than one goal in two games, one of which was against the awful Irish side you've already mentioned, and yet you wouldn't call their approach defensive or boring. Dismissing a 4-0 win in a EC final is also laughable (not mention that Italy were outplayed even before Motta went off). The lack of strikers is also irrelevant - the fact is that Spain went into this tournament without their main striker (Villa) which required a tactical rethink. The fact that their 'defensive' no-strikers system still yielded nine goals from five different midfielders and a defender seems relevant as well.

For what it's worth, I agree that Spain have less attacking creativity than Barcelona, but that's natural when you're comparing to a team with the best player in the world playing for them. If you take away the purported mediocre performances against France, Portugal and Croatia (respectively - a crap version of Spain desperately trying not to concede; a team whose entire tactic for the tournament was defend and then counter quickly; and a genuinely good team that caused problems for both finalists), then they were by far the best team at the tournament.

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RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 12:22:34 AM   
Giant Green Rabbit


Posts: 1109
Joined: 13/2/2006
From: Cloud Cuckoo Land

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda


quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

It's very defensive approach (no strikers in the starting line-up)



...they scored twelve goals in six games.



Should we not put those stats into context? 8 of those 12 goals you mention we're scored in two games, 4 against an awful Irish side, and 4 against an Italian side who weren't at their best and two of the goals were scored after Italy had gone down to 10 men and were failing to (but trying) to somehow get back into the final, an approach that often results in goals being conceded.

Take those away and they scored 1 goal per game, something you could easily relate to a defensive approach, try your hardest not to concede and hope you can get a goal. It's defensive football of a different nature, it's more sophisticated than parking the bus, but defensive none the less. Let's be honest here, they started with formations including no strikers and their and the tournaments top scorer was a substitute who came on towards the arse end of the games.



Firstly it's simply incorrect to argue that a striker-less formation makes a defensive team. Look at Luciano Spalleti's Roma for one of the first examples of striker-less teams; they scored a shedload of goals and if anything were vulnerable at the back (something Man Utd highlighted when they hit 7 past them in the Champions league). Formations dont tell you everything about a team. 4-3-3 on paper looks attack minded - but with the two wide forwards tracking back to mark the full-backs it turns into a defensive 4-5-1 formation. For another example look at Holland's matches - their move from a 4-2-3-1 to a 4-1-4-1 (van der vaart for van Bommel) should have led to a more attacking Dutch side. In fact it simply hampered their build-up play and they looked less potent than they did against the Danes.

Secondly, heed the lesson which tonight's match gave; what makes Spain seem defensive - is it their approach or the approach of the opposition? I'd say it's the opposition's approach and this is why: Euro 2008, contrary to your argument was a fabulous tournament with loads of quality attacking football. See how an adventorous (if counter-punching) Dutch side blew away France and Italy and were then themselves dismissed by an even more attacking Russia.

But check two games in particular - Russia v Spain in the Group stages and the semi-final. Spain in 2008 played only one holding player or pivot in Senna - so they were attacking. However Russia attacked them which is why in the first match against Russia three of Spain's goals came from counter-attacks themselves. Spain won 4-1. In the second match Russia had a more balanced approach but still went with an attack-minded approach. The talented Russian's who had beaten the sparkling Dutch 3-1 were themselves dismissed 3-0 even in the semi-final. It became clear that if you attack Spain, they will simply outplay you.

Fast forward to 2010 - the first match against Switzerland. Switzerland played anti-football with everyone behind the ball - spoilery stuff, scoring once on the break and sitting back. It was awful to watch and Spain came off worse 1-0. Spain had to guard against teams doing this and so they kept the ball more to ensure they couldn't be counter-attacked easily. Chile played against Spain in the following match and it resulted in one of the best matches of the tournament - a 2-1 Spain win if I'm not mistaken. After that teams sat back against them and you simply don't have the space in those instances to play penetrative football. So the tactic evolved - Spain would tire out opponents who wanted to park the bus. The sterile tiki-taka is a response to parking the bus, not the other way around.

To emphasise this look at Euro 2012. Italy were the only team who tried to attack Spain and play their own game. It made for two of the best three matches in the entire competition. Portugal played 120 minutes without a shot on target, France barely got an attack together even when behind and Croatia also completely altered their approach from the Italy match (in which they were proactive) to play a reactive game. No team can entertain against teams who park the bus or play reactively.

One thing has been consistent over the last three tournaments: Spain play proactively. They want to win each game and take the game to the opposition. Most teams play reactively - they wait for a team to attack and leave space in behind before attacking themselves. When two reactive teams come together the spectacle is awful (remember all those Chelsea-Liverpool games in the Benitez/Mourinho era). They are both set up to counter-punch and to ensure they cant be counter-punched themselves. Take two proactive teams and you have exhilarating matches such as tonight's game. The only problem is Spain are so good, that if you play pro-actively rather than countering their game, you simply lose.

Going back to the striker-less formation - tactically it's actually very proactive from the Spanish coach. The Spanish know teams will tend to play with more inherently defensive players, but a striker-less formation leaves those defence-minded players with nobody to mark. Thus a fluid set of passing moves risks drawing out those defenders out of their comfort zones, inviting them to also play a higher defensive line when they get the ball.

Euro 2012 has shown that Spain are ultimately an attacking proactive outfit - and that opposition will generally try to play them by adapting and neutralising. Euro 2012 has also shown via today's final is that if you go toe-to-toe against Spain, you risk being humiliated, because they simply pass and exploit space a lot better than any other national side, at least in Europe. The unfortunate consequence in the World Cup in 2014 is that teams will be more determined to park the bus against Spain and play reactively, because you simply cannot beat them playing your own game. The challenge for the rest of the world is produce talent that can do that.

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RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 12:28:13 AM   
Giant Green Rabbit


Posts: 1109
Joined: 13/2/2006
From: Cloud Cuckoo Land

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ultimo Lee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda
yet another rather poor international tournament,

Like the very few people who don't find Mark Lawrenson to not be a snidy boring twat your in a very small minority, i don't go along with the over the top "Fantastic tournament" (Good group games, awful quarters, one good semi and a decent final) stuff but on the whole it's been good. Plus 2008 was a very good tournament.

How can anyone have Casillas as keeper of the tournament? he's had nothing to do for most of it. Plus Lahm, didn't play right back


Buffon (Ita)

Debuchy (Fra) Hummels (Ger) Bonucci (Ita) Alba (Spn)

Pirlo (Ita)

Khedira (Ger) Moutinho (Por)

Marchisio (Ita) zil (Ger) Iniesta (Spn)


No forwards for me, shocking tournament for strikers.


Ah - Debuchy - good call. Khedira was good but I felt that his link-up with Schweinstegier was very problematic and in the Italy game in particular, both did a poor job of picking up Italian attacking midfielders exploiting space between German lines.

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Post #: 1668
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 8:23:58 AM   
Lord Varys

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 21/6/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

DC's final tip of EURO 2012: Spain 0-1 Italy.

Put your house on it baby!

Spain will huff and puff by they won't blow the Italian casa down.

FORZA PIRLO!!!
Poor homeless guy...lol...

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Post #: 1669
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 9:40:08 AM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8059
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord Varys


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

DC's final tip of EURO 2012: Spain 0-1 Italy.

Put your house on it baby!

Spain will huff and puff by they won't blow the Italian casa down.

FORZA PIRLO!!!
Poor homeless guy...lol...



Coming from the Greek guy, pot calling kettle.

NB obviously hoping that it isn't the case.


Picking up on a point further up, when thinking about upcoming English talent we look painfully short of promising forwards. Now some of this is going to be down to the importance of the position and the fact that you are less likely to get a run out in order to develop. However is there currently a dearth of forward talent across the world game? How many truly world class strikers are there now currently playing?
How many really promising young strikers already playing at the highest level? I'm struggling to think of 5 in each category.
Supporting forwards, yep I can name a few, but number 9's, I can't think of many.


< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 2/7/2012 9:44:17 AM >


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Post #: 1670
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 9:55:08 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca
Do you not think the centre-forward position has become less glamorous over recent years? We don't have to go back far to someone like Niestelrooy who earned his wages converting opportunities and not doing a lot more.

Now the man up front seems to find more work in knocking the ball down or holding it up for colleagues to join the attack, rather than having the offensive nature of the team built around them.

So, I think you could argue, so what if we don't have centre forwards coming through as Spain have just taken Italy apart with Fabregas as the man up front?

I wouldn't see that as England's biggest problem. More finding the other 9 players who can play cohesively in the team, keep possession for more than 3 passes, show some signs of being able to go forward and not rely on the fact that Rooney (or another big name) is in the team and will win a tournament single-handedly.


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Post #: 1671
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 10:58:00 AM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8059
Joined: 30/9/2005
Sorry to clarify, I was saying that I've actually got a lot of optimism at the young English talent coming through and playing regularly in the PL. However that is tempered by the fact that we are thin on the ground with young English forwards.

I do think there is a role for a good number 9 but yes in the modern game they have to be more than just a poacher. Personally, and again this is me on my bandwagon, I think Rooney should be used by England and Man Utd as a number 9 rather than coming deep but at the top level I can't think of too many in world football. Zlatan, Van Persie (for Arsenal at least, until the last month Holland liked him on the left), Torres, Benzema there just doesn't seem to be a lot of these guys, certainly at the Euros.

Anyway probably a chat for the England thread.

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Post #: 1672
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 12:49:02 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8255
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It's weird how the striker has gone from being the glamour, glory-boy position, the equivalent of quarterback or fly-half, to pretty much a hod-carrying fringe player.

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Post #: 1673
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 12:57:03 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
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From: the dark side of the sun
There's basically two Spain's - one is the lot that pass it around at a snail's pace boring the pants off everyone, and the other is last night's version who ramp up the speed of their passing and movement and look bloody amazing. As long as they play like that I have no complaints.

Italy actually put up a good fight but there's so much talent in Spain's side when they come at you it's just mission impossible. With 10 men you are basically gonna get totally shafted but still it was good to see Torres and especially Mata get on the score sheet.

A lot of people are saying they are the greatest side of all time but I don't agree, there's no way anyone can say they would definately beat Zidane's French lineup or any selection of great teams over the years including various Brazil, German and Italian ones. It's a 50-50 game when truly great sides come up against each other.

All the Spanish sprogs on the pitch at the end were really cute as well

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Post #: 1674
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 1:45:06 PM   
jonson


Posts: 9085
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

There's basically two Spain's - one is the lot that pass it around at a snail's pace boring the pants off everyone, and the other is last night's version who ramp up the speed of their passing and movement and look bloody amazing. As long as they play like that I have no complaints.


Agreed. I don't know how many texts I got off friends last night asking "so you still think Spain are boring then?"
Wibnderful masterclass of football, I wasn;t quite jizzing in my panst like ALna Shearer, btu it was still good.

Without wishing to open a topic, but the main problem I think we face in this countery is we teach kids 11-a-side football at a far too early age. It should be banned unti they are 14 IMO.
Get kids playing 6-a-side, learning to pass and control at speed, then move them to bigger pitches. Why we have under 9 11-a-side games, when all they do (apart from a couple of token decent kids) is follow the ball around, some of them having no more than 15 touches in a 90 minute game. Seems ridiculous when you think about it.

Also quite an intersting article by Martin Samuel suggetsing that talented young players, such as Phil Jones, should be taugh to play across ther defence and midfield. We tend to bracket players as "a centre back" without understanding that they are very good footballers, capable of progressing to a midfield/defence role, but we get that blinded with "positions" and "roles" we fail to see the bigger picture.

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Post #: 1675
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 1:52:35 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8255
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

Without wishing to open a topic, but the main problem I think we face in this countery is we teach kids 11-a-side football at a far too early age. It should be banned unti they are 14 IMO.
Get kids playing 6-a-side, learning to pass and control at speed, then move them to bigger pitches. Why we have under 9 11-a-side games, when all they do (apart from a couple of token decent kids) is follow the ball around, some of them having no more than 15 touches in a 90 minute game. Seems ridiculous when you think about it.


It's so true though, and it still goes on. I remember when I was at primary school we'd play on a large quagmire pitch with about 7 blades of grass (not exactly full-size, but still far too large), with a full-size rock-hard leather ball that was older than God's dog and seemed to come up to my knees, and be shooting at a goal that was comically large for the size of the poor kid in goal. And since my birthday is in the middle of July I'd often find myself playing against kids almost a year older than me, which when you're 8 or 9 makes a big difference.

It's no wonder football in this country has traditionally favoured the bigger, stronger lads.

(in reply to jonson)
Post #: 1676
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 2:50:07 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Apparently we stopped using full sized pitches for kids a good 50 YEARS after the rest of Europe....

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 1677
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 2:55:11 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14559
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
It's partly that and the "Get rid! Just run with it as fast as you can!" culture that infests kids football as well.

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ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
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(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 1678
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 3:07:49 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8059
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

It's partly that and the "Get rid! Just run with it as fast as you can!" culture that infests kids football as well.


The coaching in this country has improved dramatically in the past 5 years, the problem is its going to take another 10 to start coming through.

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(in reply to matty_b)
Post #: 1679
RE: EURO 2012 - Poland and Ukraine - 2/7/2012 3:16:22 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14559
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
To be fair, I'm thinking more of dads who just stand on the sidelines and shout that kind of guff.

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quote:

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(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 1680
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