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RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 10/9/2010 3:23:27 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5110
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

Ugh...I hate to do this to you guys. I really do.

Ok, so I saw Kick Ass a second time in order to really figure out if I was crazy or if that film was really really not that good. As people all around me buzz around that film with a twisted perception that it is amazing and right up there with The Dark Knight (gasp), I'm just gonna lay out my reasons for not liking it and you can tell me if I'm crazy or not. Or if I've missed something.

Here are a few questions I really need answers to:

SPOILERS (possibly)

1/ Where did Kick Ass's girlfriend meet a crook like Razul? I mean it's not like he could have hidden his lifestyle from her if they were going out...I don't know it just doesn't seem convincing this whole Razul thing.

2/ The first guy killed by the mob, who says he saw a guy dressed up like Batman (although he didn't say Batman ), why did he not just tell the mob he had a picture of Big Daddy on his phone before they killed him? If the whole reason they killed him was because they didn't believe him...he could have given it a shot.

3/ And why do the mob guys think its Kick Ass on the picture when its clearly not? It's not like they don't know what Kick Ass looks like! Everyone knows!

4/ If Big Daddy is mild mannered in real life, how come he's taught his daughter to swear like a maniac? Unless he pushed it on her as some kind of badass superhero persona...which seems a bit stupid.

5/ Why is Big Daddy's room so easy to get into and peppered with evidence?

6/ Why would the mob boss agree to a "Mist Mobile" (pricy and pointless!) and why didn't he see it outside the lumber place when they all pull up there as it burns to the ground? Wouldn't they have tried to save Red Mist and/or kill Kick Ass?

7/ Why does Red Mist shoot Hit Girl when he enters their lair with Kick Ass? I guess he's technically a bad guy but...if the mob were gonna barge in anyway...whatever. Up to this point RM wasn't so much a vilain as a pre-vilain anti-hero, like Harry Osborne before his dad turns into the Green Goblin (kinda).

8/ Did the mafia guys hire a net designer to set up the whole Kick Ass unmasked online thing? It looks pretty professional. And if so...Why? Who cares if people see Kick Ass unmasked or not, isn't it just risky and ridiculously unnecessary to show themselves online killing these two guys? I really don't get that whole thing. Just kill 'em! WTF???

9/ Why doesn't Hit Girl try to help her dad first when he's on fire? Sure she needs to kill the guys around but it's dark anyway. Just save your dad quickly, then take out the dudes...seems like the logical thing to do. Plus she's been badass the whole time up to this point so why does she suck at the most critical moment! And by saving her dad first, he could have helped her take out the rest of the guys! No?

10/ How did they know the jetpack would even be helpful at all? I mean sure it's got machine guns but...seems like a retarded purchase for Big Daddy to make. Plus, Jetpacks don't really exist do they? So doesn't that defy the whole point of Kick Ass being a "realistic" hero? ... Like they knew Hit Girl would be hiding in that room specifically and that someone would show up with a bazooka...whatever.

Ok now for a list of things I just didn't like:  

The Score:
Some of the music feels like it's been ripped off from The Dark Knight OST directly. Hans Zimmer must have spinned in his gr...bed.

The Soundtrack:
Awful, just awful. it's like someone just started playing a generic Best Of 2004 compilation. The whole "Crazy" bit in the car is cringeworthy. The Love

Interest:
Kick Ass's girlfriend is soooooo annoying. Nothing she says rings true, she's just really really bland and...such a bad actress. Red Mist: C. Mintz Plasse is not very good in this. He feels miscast and, again, nothing he says feels convincing. And this HURTS saying that about McLovin, trust me!

The Bedroom Scene:
When KA and his GF finally get together. It's just horrendously acted. The whole thing had me reaching for the shit bucket.

The References:
Hate all the references like Lost, Family Guy, Sin City etc its so obvious and on the nose. Feels like an old man is trying to relate to young people by just naming popular things they THINK everyone who watches Kick Ass will know. Hohoho those young people and their World Wide Interwebs...

The Dark Fight Scene:
The fight scene with Hit Girl in the dark is so overdramatic and the strobe-like flashes are just irritating. Reminds me of Alone in the Dark! That's not a good thing.

End Line:
The Joker reference at the end is just cringeworthy...oh man...way to turn a cool line from a cool movie into jizz.

Oh and how does the jetpack fit into ANYTHING? lol

Alright, I'm done. I apologize in advance for pissing people off but yeah, I'm reopening the debate on Kick Ass, I'm still not happy about that 5 star review. Don't get me wrong though, I'd give this film a solid-(ish) 3 stars, it's ok. So I don't hate it! Parts of it are funny and Nic Cage is great but beyond that...I don't get the adoration. So many plotholes...




Good questions one and all but you forgot:

11. How come Nic Cage's trousers don't split when he turns into Big Daddy?

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to Edward Nygma)
Post #: 211
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 10/9/2010 10:07:33 AM   
lankeymarlon

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 27/7/2009
You could deconstruct any film with silly questions like that.

_____________________________

Twitter: @lankeymarlon

(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 212
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 10/9/2010 12:28:21 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

Ugh...I hate to do this to you guys. I really do.

Ok, so I saw Kick Ass a second time in order to really figure out if I was crazy or if that film was really really not that good. As people all around me buzz around that film with a twisted perception that it is amazing and right up there with The Dark Knight (gasp), I'm just gonna lay out my reasons for not liking it and you can tell me if I'm crazy or not. Or if I've missed something.

Here are a few questions I really need answers to:

SPOILERS (possibly)

1/ Where did Kick Ass's girlfriend meet a crook like Razul? I mean it's not like he could have hidden his lifestyle from her if they were going out...I don't know it just doesn't seem convincing this whole Razul thing.

2/ The first guy killed by the mob, who says he saw a guy dressed up like Batman (although he didn't say Batman ), why did he not just tell the mob he had a picture of Big Daddy on his phone before they killed him? If the whole reason they killed him was because they didn't believe him...he could have given it a shot.

3/ And why do the mob guys think its Kick Ass on the picture when its clearly not? It's not like they don't know what Kick Ass looks like! Everyone knows!

4/ If Big Daddy is mild mannered in real life, how come he's taught his daughter to swear like a maniac? Unless he pushed it on her as some kind of badass superhero persona...which seems a bit stupid.

5/ Why is Big Daddy's room so easy to get into and peppered with evidence?

6/ Why would the mob boss agree to a "Mist Mobile" (pricy and pointless!) and why didn't he see it outside the lumber place when they all pull up there as it burns to the ground? Wouldn't they have tried to save Red Mist and/or kill Kick Ass?

7/ Why does Red Mist shoot Hit Girl when he enters their lair with Kick Ass? I guess he's technically a bad guy but...if the mob were gonna barge in anyway...whatever. Up to this point RM wasn't so much a vilain as a pre-vilain anti-hero, like Harry Osborne before his dad turns into the Green Goblin (kinda).

8/ Did the mafia guys hire a net designer to set up the whole Kick Ass unmasked online thing? It looks pretty professional. And if so...Why? Who cares if people see Kick Ass unmasked or not, isn't it just risky and ridiculously unnecessary to show themselves online killing these two guys? I really don't get that whole thing. Just kill 'em! WTF???

9/ Why doesn't Hit Girl try to help her dad first when he's on fire? Sure she needs to kill the guys around but it's dark anyway. Just save your dad quickly, then take out the dudes...seems like the logical thing to do. Plus she's been badass the whole time up to this point so why does she suck at the most critical moment! And by saving her dad first, he could have helped her take out the rest of the guys! No?

10/ How did they know the jetpack would even be helpful at all? I mean sure it's got machine guns but...seems like a retarded purchase for Big Daddy to make. Plus, Jetpacks don't really exist do they? So doesn't that defy the whole point of Kick Ass being a "realistic" hero? ... Like they knew Hit Girl would be hiding in that room specifically and that someone would show up with a bazooka...whatever.



1. She helps out on various programmes - does it not say a needle program? Possibly scouting for customers?

6. Because it's his son - the centre of the film, apart from the idiocy of the idea of superheros, are 3 father-child relationships.

7. Refer you back to the wanting to please daddy, show him he's a successor kind of thing

8. Did it? It was a web cam. Anyone could do it.

9. I'd guess weight of numbers - take them out and no-one's at your back. That's pretty in keeping with what they make clear she was taught.

10. I think that was pretty clearly presented within the father - daughter relationship - the childish joy at the idea and then subverting it with how to turn it into a weapon. As for it's use - they are in a penthouse with windows all round. They are hardly likely to be looking to that direction for a threat - as Lawrence says when he heads across the desert. No-one's looking that way - hence, perfect strategy.

The point partly is it is a pisstake and a subversion of the comic hero genre. The film broadens that out a little and mutes it, most particularly in changing Big Daddy's background. But the jet pack was fun - which it what I think it was supposed to be.


Hm still not convinced about most of this.

For 6. of course he's his son, but he's like 16. Surely a mob boss would want to keep something like murder discreet and not indulge his son with every ridiculous request! And it still doesn't explain why they don't see the car outside the lumber place...

I'll give you 7. But I still think the way CM Plasse plays that is a bit awkward. Besides, is Red Mist really a murderer at this point? Seemed a bit extreme for him to do that! He didnt know Hit Girl had a bullet proof vest.

8. Well they did put a Kick Ass font with a whole countdown etc. And why would they do that whole thing anyway?

9. It's still stupid though. It never looks like she's struggling at any point during that scene, she could have easily like kicked his chair to the side or untied him or something.

10. I guess I'll have to accept that. Although...the whole thing's a bit too sci-fi and convenient for my taste. You could argue that Batman's gadgets are similarly wacky but is Big Daddy a Billionnaire? (maybe he is admittedly, I must have missed something) And besides, there's a disconnect because Kick Ass was meant to be a pastiche but a more realistic pastiche, no?


_____________________________

Ben. Affleck.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 213
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 10/9/2010 12:35:23 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: lankeymarlon

You could deconstruct any film with silly questions like that.


I disagree. Only films with gaping plot holes the size of Finland!

I'm not nitpicking here, these are things which genuinely bothered me watching the film on a non-critical level. I don't go into a film over analysing it. But if something just stands out as a blatant mistake or problem, it just stands out you know? These plot holes and clunky moments made the tone of the film all over the place for me and I couldn't enjoy it fully because of it. And if they're such silly questions, they should be pretty easy for you to answer right?




_____________________________

Ben. Affleck.

(in reply to lankeymarlon)
Post #: 214
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 10/9/2010 1:22:08 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5110
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
Yeah but, come on, 'jetpacks don't exist'? As far as I know neither do invincible11 year old killing machines.

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to Edward Nygma)
Post #: 215
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 10/9/2010 2:41:02 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

Yeah but, come on, 'jetpacks don't exist'? As far as I know neither do invincible11 year old killing machines.


Have you ever trained an 11 year old to become an invincible killing machine? Huh?
But yeah, fine, I'll suspend my disbelief for that particular Bond gadget.

It's still a very inconsistent film. There's like 5 films in one. The whole point of the premise is that a normal kid tries to be a superhero in the real world, so if you start adding jetpacks and set the story in Gotham City...I don't know, it takes away from the interesting basic premise I think.



_____________________________

Ben. Affleck.

(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 216
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 10/9/2010 3:00:28 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5110
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

Yeah but, come on, 'jetpacks don't exist'? As far as I know neither do invincible11 year old killing machines.


Have you ever trained an 11 year old to become an invincible killing machine? Huh?
But yeah, fine, I'll suspend my disbelief for that particular Bond gadget.

It's still a very inconsistent film. There's like 5 films in one. The whole point of the premise is that a normal kid tries to be a superhero in the real world, so if you start adding jetpacks and set the story in Gotham City...I don't know, it takes away from the interesting basic premise I think.




True, but that basic premise is pretty much null and void quite early on in the film when he gets nearly killed and wakes up with what are tantamount to superpowers. The idea is still a normal kid trying to be a superhero but (apart from when he first gets beaten up) the film never really tries to show what it would actually be like if a normal kid tried to become a superhero. That's a different film. Kick-Ass is quite clearly 100% a comic book movie therefore jetpacks, master villains and over the top violence are all fair game.

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to Edward Nygma)
Post #: 217
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 10/9/2010 6:10:42 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
Like Edward Nygma, I've seen this film twice. I'm not having a go, just trying to offer answers to the questions...



quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

Ugh...I hate to do this to you guys. I really do.

Ok, so I saw Kick Ass a second time in order to really figure out if I was crazy or if that film was really really not that good. As people all around me buzz around that film with a twisted perception that it is amazing and right up there with The Dark Knight (gasp), I'm just gonna lay out my reasons for not liking it and you can tell me if I'm crazy or not. Or if I've missed something.

Here are a few questions I really need answers to:

SPOILERS (possibly)

1/ Where did Kick Ass's girlfriend meet a crook like Razul? I mean it's not like he could have hidden his lifestyle from her if they were going out...I don't know it just doesn't seem convincing this whole Razul thing.

She met him via volunteer work The more she found about him, the more she wanted to get away, he wouldn't let her get away. And probably the whole Razul thing was about the main concept: if a kid who wanted to be a hero did something about it, he'd be fucked if he met the kind of people he wanted to defeat. As indeed he was


2/ The first guy killed by the mob, who says he saw a guy dressed up like Batman (although he didn't say Batman ), why did he not just tell the mob he had a picture of Big Daddy on his phone before they killed him? If the whole reason they killed him was because they didn't believe him...he could have given it a shot.


My recollection is that that was on someone elses phone, and the picture had been taken just before the owner of said phone was killed by Big Daddy.



3/ And why do the mob guys think its Kick Ass on the picture when its clearly not? It's not like they don't know what Kick Ass looks like! Everyone knows!

'Poetic licence' the only costumed hero they've heard of in their town is kick-ass. He could easily have more than one look


4/ If Big Daddy is mild mannered in real life, how come he's taught his daughter to swear like a maniac? Unless he pushed it on her as some kind of badass superhero persona...which seems a bit stupid.

'poetic licence' and he is also teaching her to be a vengeful murderer (parody of the Robin situation where Batman is taking a child out with him to teach him crimefighting?) so the swearing, seems a moot point, but it is also one more layer of characterisation: totally belying her appearance, she will kill you AND call you a cunt.

5/ Why is Big Daddy's room so easy to get into and peppered with evidence?

It's a secret hidden room/secret lair, so you'd have to find the location of the room before you could get in, and the only people who got in were Hit Girl and Big Daddy's former cop partner (who is asked how he found the place, and replies with 'one of us is still a cop). It's peppered with evidence because it would be, being the secret lair.


6/ Why would the mob boss agree to a "Mist Mobile" (pricy and pointless!) and why didn't he see it outside the lumber place when they all pull up there as it burns to the ground? Wouldn't they have tried to save Red Mist and/or kill Kick Ass?

Comic parody, heroes have vehicles a whatever-mobile and unlike Kick-Ass, Red mist had someone who could afford to pay for him to live the comic book fantasy in more luxury. The also needed to be able to drive around from one story point to another, and a rich kid who gives rich daddy a list of what he wants (while rich daddy has taken drugs and is ashamed of it and has just tried to hide it from his son) probably gets what he wants,

As for the rest of the question, my semi-photographic memory is on the blink so, er, I cant say .


7/ Why does Red Mist shoot Hit Girl when he enters their lair with Kick Ass? I guess he's technically a bad guy but...if the mob were gonna barge in anyway...whatever. Up to this point RM wasn't so much a vilain as a pre-vilain anti-hero, like Harry Osborne before his dad turns into the Green Goblin (kinda).

He is motivated by revenge, wants to be a bad man like his father, and it is only after meeting Kick-Ass that he is friendly to anyone. He was gutted when the baddies he liked got killed, and can't shoot Big Daddy, cos, his own Daddy wants to be there for that. Action reveals character: Red Mist is a cunt, while also being a confused lonely teen. If he hadn't shot Hot Girl his character development at the end would have been less set up, so he has already been shown to be willing to kill a child.Also, BD killed people he cared about (which was why he was setting BD up), so he was returning the favour, no?

8/ Did the mafia guys hire a net designer to set up the whole Kick Ass unmasked online thing? It looks pretty professional. And if so...Why? Who cares if people see Kick Ass unmasked or not, isn't it just risky and ridiculously unnecessary to show themselves online killing these two guys? I really don't get that whole thing. Just kill 'em! WTF???

Pimped up RedmistMobile, gotta have a pimped up website too (so Kickass and his Myspace page look shite by comparison to Dave/Kickass, who gets jealous when people are wowed by Red Mist) The online broadcast thing didn't begin until after the bad guys put on their masks, after the countdown ended. What we saw before that wasn't being boradcast online. And they said in the dialogue that they were showing the viewers why it was a bad idea to be a hero, and that was why the events were being broadcast.

9/ Why doesn't Hit Girl try to help her dad first when he's on fire? Sure she needs to kill the guys around but it's dark anyway. Just save your dad quickly, then take out the dudes...seems like the logical thing to do. Plus she's been badass the whole time up to this point so why does she suck at the most critical moment! And by saving her dad first, he could have helped her take out the rest of the guys! No?

There were several armed men around her father (who shouted 'TAKE COVER CHILD' ie told her to forget about what she was about to do, which was try and save him). Also, though it was dark in the location of the scene, it wasn't dark around her on fire Daddy!

10/ How did they know the jetpack would even be helpful at all? I mean sure it's got machine guns but...seems like a retarded purchase for Big Daddy to make. Plus, Jetpacks don't really exist do they? So doesn't that defy the whole point of Kick Ass being a "realistic" hero? ... Like they knew Hit Girl would be hiding in that room specifically and that someone would show up with a bazooka...whatever.

Big Daddy and Hit Girl were suckers for the whole hero gadget thing just like the other comic book fantasists, and the most 'real' thing the story showed about such characters was that if you were to try and fight crime, you would need to do so with violence, and without remorse, which they did. Things like Jet Packs, are just candy, appropriate to the kind of scenarios being parodied, but in context, for Kick-Ass to be able to do what he fantasised about, he had to become a killer too, and he needed a grand entrance when saving the day. He couldn't just follow Hit Girl up the stairs. Jetpacks aren't so far removed from reality as that. They can't be made to work as well as in the film, but people have used them to fly.

Ok now for a list of things I just didn't like:  

The Score:
Some of the music feels like it's been ripped off from The Dark Knight OST directly. Hans Zimmer must have spinned in his gr...bed.

if you're spoofing/exploring/homaging/parodying established themes from a genre storywise, riffing on the musical themes from other famous movies in the genre is not so much ripping off the music as just part of 'the gag' of using lines lines almost word for word from spiderman, word for word from Burton's Batman, and the Adam West Batman Routine Cage did (they all take insoiration from THEIR hero, and it's pretty possible Hit-Girl liked Leon (the other cinematic telling of a tale of a young girl with an unnaturally brightly coloured longish bob haircut being taught how to kill, )



The Soundtrack:
Awful, just awful. it's like someone just started playing a generic Best Of 2004 compilation. The whole "Crazy" bit in the car is cringeworthy.

Some of these criticisms make it sound like the film ground your gears from beginning to end! Yes, a bit cringeworthy, but neither of these two characters felt cool or liked, and in this scene they both did


The Love

Interest:
Kick Ass's girlfriend is soooooo annoying. Nothing she says rings true, she's just really really bland and...such a bad actress.

She's pretty one dimensional, but then so is Katie Holmes in Batman Begins, and this character (Called KATIE) looks almost exactly like her. So, part of the joke. perhaps?


Red Mist: C. Mintz Plasse is not very good in this. He feels miscast and, again, nothing he says feels convincing. And this HURTS saying that about McLovin, trust me!

He's crap, he's useless, a bit desperate, eager to please his father, and he's got a slight speech impediment, rendering what I felt to be a deliberately one dimensional spoilt kid character slight more geeky, also deliberately. He's as shite as the Guy who becomes Kick-Ass, despite the wealth, and becomes best friends with Kick-Ass and then his nemesis. There's a lot of necessary parody combined into what the character was there to do storywise, and the actor seemd to me to fit the role.


The Bedroom Scene:
When KA and his GF finally get together. It's just horrendously acted. The whole thing had me reaching for the shit bucket.

Thought it was okay, sweet and geeky-real. But then I wasn't asking as many questions as you!


The References:
Hate all the references like Lost, Family Guy, Sin City etc its so obvious and on the nose. Feels like an old man is trying to relate to young people by just naming popular things they THINK everyone who watches Kick Ass will know. Hohoho those young people and their World Wide Interwebs...


Can't parody a genre on an 'ifi it happenend in the real world' way as a starting point for the story without mentioning things that do exist in real world/popular culture. Also, the use of the net and media in the film CRITICISED these things implicitly by having people so divorced from the notion of helping others, or even calling the police the help kick ass, they filmed the violence and put it on line.If people wanted the meat on the bones of this story, that's probably it. In the moment where Kick ass says he would rather die than watch three guys beat someone else up while other people stand around watching he gets his most heroic moment, and reveals the heart of the film


The Dark Fight Scene:
The fight scene with Hit Girl in the dark is so overdramatic and the strobe-like flashes are just irritating. Reminds me of Alone in the Dark! That's not a good thing.


Liked the technique when I saw it in Equilibrium (rather shite really) and liked it here.


End Line:
The Joker reference at the end is just cringeworthy...oh man...way to turn a cool line from a cool movie into jizz.


It's a character point: Red Mist is such a shit Nemesis, he has to nick a line from another Nemesis. The Goody Guy/Bad Guy pairing take their inspiration from comic books they've read or films they've seen.Though not stated, Red Mist's Dad was basically Kingpin too, if you note the way he stands at the window and, well, everything else about who he is and what he does!

Oh and how does the jetpack fit into ANYTHING? lol

See above

Alright, I'm done. I apologize in advance for pissing people off but yeah, I'm reopening the debate on Kick Ass, I'm still not happy about that 5 star review. Don't get me wrong though, I'd give this film a solid-(ish) 3 stars, it's ok. So I don't hate it! Parts of it are funny and Nic Cage is great but beyond that...I don't get the adoration. So many plotholes...










< Message edited by jobloffski -- 10/9/2010 7:32:05 PM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Edward Nygma)
Post #: 218
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 11/9/2010 3:25:56 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Like Edward Nygma, I've seen this film twice. I'm not having a go, just trying to offer answers to the questions...



quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

Ugh...I hate to do this to you guys. I really do.

Ok, so I saw Kick Ass a second time in order to really figure out if I was crazy or if that film was really really not that good. As people all around me buzz around that film with a twisted perception that it is amazing and right up there with The Dark Knight (gasp), I'm just gonna lay out my reasons for not liking it and you can tell me if I'm crazy or not. Or if I've missed something.

Here are a few questions I really need answers to:

SPOILERS (possibly)

1/ Where did Kick Ass's girlfriend meet a crook like Razul? I mean it's not like he could have hidden his lifestyle from her if they were going out...I don't know it just doesn't seem convincing this whole Razul thing.

She met him via volunteer work The more she found about him, the more she wanted to get away, he wouldn't let her get away. And probably the whole Razul thing was about the main concept: if a kid who wanted to be a hero did something about it, he'd be fucked if he met the kind of people he wanted to defeat. As indeed he was


2/ The first guy killed by the mob, who says he saw a guy dressed up like Batman (although he didn't say Batman ), why did he not just tell the mob he had a picture of Big Daddy on his phone before they killed him? If the whole reason they killed him was because they didn't believe him...he could have given it a shot.


My recollection is that that was on someone elses phone, and the picture had been taken just before the owner of said phone was killed by Big Daddy.



3/ And why do the mob guys think its Kick Ass on the picture when its clearly not? It's not like they don't know what Kick Ass looks like! Everyone knows!

'Poetic licence' the only costumed hero they've heard of in their town is kick-ass. He could easily have more than one look


4/ If Big Daddy is mild mannered in real life, how come he's taught his daughter to swear like a maniac? Unless he pushed it on her as some kind of badass superhero persona...which seems a bit stupid.

'poetic licence' and he is also teaching her to be a vengeful murderer (parody of the Robin situation where Batman is taking a child out with him to teach him crimefighting?) so the swearing, seems a moot point, but it is also one more layer of characterisation: totally belying her appearance, she will kill you AND call you a cunt.

5/ Why is Big Daddy's room so easy to get into and peppered with evidence?

It's a secret hidden room/secret lair, so you'd have to find the location of the room before you could get in, and the only people who got in were Hit Girl and Big Daddy's former cop partner (who is asked how he found the place, and replies with 'one of us is still a cop). It's peppered with evidence because it would be, being the secret lair.


6/ Why would the mob boss agree to a "Mist Mobile" (pricy and pointless!) and why didn't he see it outside the lumber place when they all pull up there as it burns to the ground? Wouldn't they have tried to save Red Mist and/or kill Kick Ass?

Comic parody, heroes have vehicles a whatever-mobile and unlike Kick-Ass, Red mist had someone who could afford to pay for him to live the comic book fantasy in more luxury. The also needed to be able to drive around from one story point to another, and a rich kid who gives rich daddy a list of what he wants (while rich daddy has taken drugs and is ashamed of it and has just tried to hide it from his son) probably gets what he wants,

As for the rest of the question, my semi-photographic memory is on the blink so, er, I cant say .


7/ Why does Red Mist shoot Hit Girl when he enters their lair with Kick Ass? I guess he's technically a bad guy but...if the mob were gonna barge in anyway...whatever. Up to this point RM wasn't so much a vilain as a pre-vilain anti-hero, like Harry Osborne before his dad turns into the Green Goblin (kinda).

He is motivated by revenge, wants to be a bad man like his father, and it is only after meeting Kick-Ass that he is friendly to anyone. He was gutted when the baddies he liked got killed, and can't shoot Big Daddy, cos, his own Daddy wants to be there for that. Action reveals character: Red Mist is a cunt, while also being a confused lonely teen. If he hadn't shot Hot Girl his character development at the end would have been less set up, so he has already been shown to be willing to kill a child.Also, BD killed people he cared about (which was why he was setting BD up), so he was returning the favour, no?

8/ Did the mafia guys hire a net designer to set up the whole Kick Ass unmasked online thing? It looks pretty professional. And if so...Why? Who cares if people see Kick Ass unmasked or not, isn't it just risky and ridiculously unnecessary to show themselves online killing these two guys? I really don't get that whole thing. Just kill 'em! WTF???

Pimped up RedmistMobile, gotta have a pimped up website too (so Kickass and his Myspace page look shite by comparison to Dave/Kickass, who gets jealous when people are wowed by Red Mist) The online broadcast thing didn't begin until after the bad guys put on their masks, after the countdown ended. What we saw before that wasn't being boradcast online. And they said in the dialogue that they were showing the viewers why it was a bad idea to be a hero, and that was why the events were being broadcast.

9/ Why doesn't Hit Girl try to help her dad first when he's on fire? Sure she needs to kill the guys around but it's dark anyway. Just save your dad quickly, then take out the dudes...seems like the logical thing to do. Plus she's been badass the whole time up to this point so why does she suck at the most critical moment! And by saving her dad first, he could have helped her take out the rest of the guys! No?

There were several armed men around her father (who shouted 'TAKE COVER CHILD' ie told her to forget about what she was about to do, which was try and save him). Also, though it was dark in the location of the scene, it wasn't dark around her on fire Daddy!

10/ How did they know the jetpack would even be helpful at all? I mean sure it's got machine guns but...seems like a retarded purchase for Big Daddy to make. Plus, Jetpacks don't really exist do they? So doesn't that defy the whole point of Kick Ass being a "realistic" hero? ... Like they knew Hit Girl would be hiding in that room specifically and that someone would show up with a bazooka...whatever.

Big Daddy and Hit Girl were suckers for the whole hero gadget thing just like the other comic book fantasists, and the most 'real' thing the story showed about such characters was that if you were to try and fight crime, you would need to do so with violence, and without remorse, which they did. Things like Jet Packs, are just candy, appropriate to the kind of scenarios being parodied, but in context, for Kick-Ass to be able to do what he fantasised about, he had to become a killer too, and he needed a grand entrance when saving the day. He couldn't just follow Hit Girl up the stairs. Jetpacks aren't so far removed from reality as that. They can't be made to work as well as in the film, but people have used them to fly.

Ok now for a list of things I just didn't like:  

The Score:
Some of the music feels like it's been ripped off from The Dark Knight OST directly. Hans Zimmer must have spinned in his gr...bed.

if you're spoofing/exploring/homaging/parodying established themes from a genre storywise, riffing on the musical themes from other famous movies in the genre is not so much ripping off the music as just part of 'the gag' of using lines lines almost word for word from spiderman, word for word from Burton's Batman, and the Adam West Batman Routine Cage did (they all take insoiration from THEIR hero, and it's pretty possible Hit-Girl liked Leon (the other cinematic telling of a tale of a young girl with an unnaturally brightly coloured longish bob haircut being taught how to kill, )



The Soundtrack:
Awful, just awful. it's like someone just started playing a generic Best Of 2004 compilation. The whole "Crazy" bit in the car is cringeworthy.

Some of these criticisms make it sound like the film ground your gears from beginning to end! Yes, a bit cringeworthy, but neither of these two characters felt cool or liked, and in this scene they both did


The Love

Interest:
Kick Ass's girlfriend is soooooo annoying. Nothing she says rings true, she's just really really bland and...such a bad actress.

She's pretty one dimensional, but then so is Katie Holmes in Batman Begins, and this character (Called KATIE) looks almost exactly like her. So, part of the joke. perhaps?


Red Mist: C. Mintz Plasse is not very good in this. He feels miscast and, again, nothing he says feels convincing. And this HURTS saying that about McLovin, trust me!

He's crap, he's useless, a bit desperate, eager to please his father, and he's got a slight speech impediment, rendering what I felt to be a deliberately one dimensional spoilt kid character slight more geeky, also deliberately. He's as shite as the Guy who becomes Kick-Ass, despite the wealth, and becomes best friends with Kick-Ass and then his nemesis. There's a lot of necessary parody combined into what the character was there to do storywise, and the actor seemd to me to fit the role.


The Bedroom Scene:
When KA and his GF finally get together. It's just horrendously acted. The whole thing had me reaching for the shit bucket.

Thought it was okay, sweet and geeky-real. But then I wasn't asking as many questions as you!


The References:
Hate all the references like Lost, Family Guy, Sin City etc its so obvious and on the nose. Feels like an old man is trying to relate to young people by just naming popular things they THINK everyone who watches Kick Ass will know. Hohoho those young people and their World Wide Interwebs...


Can't parody a genre on an 'ifi it happenend in the real world' way as a starting point for the story without mentioning things that do exist in real world/popular culture. Also, the use of the net and media in the film CRITICISED these things implicitly by having people so divorced from the notion of helping others, or even calling the police the help kick ass, they filmed the violence and put it on line.If people wanted the meat on the bones of this story, that's probably it. In the moment where Kick ass says he would rather die than watch three guys beat someone else up while other people stand around watching he gets his most heroic moment, and reveals the heart of the film


The Dark Fight Scene:
The fight scene with Hit Girl in the dark is so overdramatic and the strobe-like flashes are just irritating. Reminds me of Alone in the Dark! That's not a good thing.


Liked the technique when I saw it in Equilibrium (rather shite really) and liked it here.


End Line:
The Joker reference at the end is just cringeworthy...oh man...way to turn a cool line from a cool movie into jizz.


It's a character point: Red Mist is such a shit Nemesis, he has to nick a line from another Nemesis. The Goody Guy/Bad Guy pairing take their inspiration from comic books they've read or films they've seen.Though not stated, Red Mist's Dad was basically Kingpin too, if you note the way he stands at the window and, well, everything else about who he is and what he does!

Oh and how does the jetpack fit into ANYTHING? lol

See above

Alright, I'm done. I apologize in advance for pissing people off but yeah, I'm reopening the debate on Kick Ass, I'm still not happy about that 5 star review. Don't get me wrong though, I'd give this film a solid-(ish) 3 stars, it's ok. So I don't hate it! Parts of it are funny and Nic Cage is great but beyond that...I don't get the adoration. So many plotholes...







lol Ah finally a worthy answers man!

Ok lets see.

1/ Alright, I'll buy the volunteer work thing but my criticism was that they didn't really make all of this clear and convincing. Felt like a weird, maybe too direct link for Kick Ass to have with that world I think.

2/ Are you sure? lol Maybe you're right. I guess I need to double check that...

3/ Well, I'm not sure about this still. I think a lot of Kick Ass's plot is told in kind of a rushed way. Like I know what they're trying to get accross in terms of the story but the way they've done it just doesn't click. Had the picture on the phone been a blurry close up maybe but an in focus picture of a 40 year old man in a Batman costume? Hm.

4/ That's fair enough. I guess he's not meant to be a good dad anyway lol He's like the worst father ever. With or without the marshmallow hot chocolates...

5/ Sure I guess, it never feels like that much of a secret lair though. Although you could argue Big Daddy is more of a nerdy comic book obsessed mad man who turned his living room into a secret lair however he could so in that sense, fine.

6/ I mean I know they wanted to do a Batmobile parody, that's pretty clear, but looking at it as a film, these are probably THE worst, least discreet, drug dealers ever lol But then again that's probably the point. That their lair is a Lumber place does suck. BUT here's what doesn't work for me. If Kick Ass is indeed meant to be a parody, why does it take itself so seriously sometimes? And, you know, it's just not sharp or funny enough to be a real convincing spoof IMO. Maybe it's the writing, I don't know.

7/ Again, I know what they were trying to do character development wise but the way CM Plasse played it did not feel convincing and I still don't think his character, at this point, would kill a child. Pissed off or not. A quick flashback of Red Mist thinking back to the mob guys killed in the fire, then giving a vengeful look at Big Daddy, then Hit Girl and THEN shooting her would have been clearer. That's what I mean, the plot just flies by with no regards for the audience which is left to accept a story that's already pretty out there. Plus there's almost no suspense throughout. You need to take time to build up certain things, not just show it to us, you know? Comic book movies usually pride themselves on setting up everything dramatically then having the action explode in an action sequence. If you have no build up or suspense you end up with...well...Fantastic Four! lol

8/ Ok, I guess this goes back to them being shitty mob guys. And I guess they could have used Red Mist's website etc. So fine. As for the showing people that being a hero is bad for you. Hm, ok. Having the mob as vilains is pretty cliched, I think we can all agree. So I guess the point of having the mob there was to set comic book vilains in the real world. Fine. But I think the film betrays that idea by making them so bloody Joker-like and having them become these lecturing, out in the open "agents of chaos"! Maybe have one creepy bad guy and make him do that in a comic book parody, by all means. But the mob?

9/ Take cover chiiiiiild! Lol That was so funny. Nic Cage man. I dunno, he did tell her to take cover but his death still feels really unecessary. Like maybe he could have become horribly scarred and then become even more bitter, finally letting go of his every day nice-guy persona and conflicting with his own daughter eventually etc...Like Harvey becoming Two Face.

10/ lol Again I know where the plot was coming from character development wise etc. But had we seen Big Daddy build some kind of jetpack himself and then Kick Ass found it at the end in a box in a corner THEN used it...that might have worked. I dunno. A reel missing again I guess.

Ok, bonus question lol if the film is indeed a straight comic book parody. The scene where Big Daddy dies, are we meant to laugh or not? I genuinely didn't know how to respond at this point.

SCORE: So you've got Hans Zimmer-style music then punk music, then the best of 2004, then a more teen movie style score...I know they're parodying stuff but they're making things up as they go along it seems like. It's just not consistent. They're essentially parodying very different types of comic book movies: Dark Knight and Spiderman are completely different so you end up with a film that's all over the place. Had they stuck with Spiderman or Dark Knight as a template for a parody maybe it would have worked out better.

THE GIRL: Please don't compare her to Katie Holmes in Begins. I mean I don't like Holmes but that is harsh! She wasn't particularly charismatic in Batman Begins but that was kind of the point of her character: a normal girl trying to ground Bruce back to the real world, knock some sense into him. Plus Holmes is an ok actress, this one is awful.

MCLOVIN: I wasn't really referring to his character more to CM Plasse's performance. He can play nerds amazingly well but Red Mist is a far more complex character than just...a guy with glasses. I just think he was let down by an uneven tone (and script) which made it hard for him to understand his character and therefore feel uncomfortable playing him.

BEDROOM SCENE: No no no no no! You've made some good points previously but NO! lol It was sooooo bad! Just...the whole thing...ARGH! The pain of it all...such bad acting.

Otherwise, yeah I think you're maybe looking a bit too deeply at the media quotes thing. I don' t think they thought it through that much. They just wanted to sell Apple laptops and spoon with Youtube in a comfy bed of matrimonial lust.

And the last line, again I know what they were going for but it's not clear he's meant to be a shit vilain at this specific point. They just wanted to wink at the audience who remember Batman and expect us to find it cute and cosy. It just comes across as awkward...

lol I know you might think i hate Kick Ass, I don't! I really don't! I'm just trying to put what annoyed me about this film into words but it's not too easy to pinpoint because I think its flaws are more tone and writing based so harder to show up. Plus it's trying to be a million things at the same time so...Argh PLUS Empire gave it 5 stars and everyone thinks it's the cat's pyjamas...

I applaud you for answering my questions though, you made a lot of genuinely good points and answered without making douchy sarcastic jokes...unlike SOME people...lol I'm gonna get shot aren't I? Thanks for accepting the debate dude :) Who knows, maybe you'll change my mind about the film...nah lol


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Post #: 219
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 11/9/2010 11:39:37 PM   
BOHEMIANBOB


Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin
Mr Nygma,you're being a bit silly here!Have the Pilgrimistas sent you out to slander this decent film?
Your list of questions,as said before,could be applied to any film,particularly of this genre.
Plot holes?Pilgrim??Please!!??
This is adult entertainment aimed at a more discerning audience than Pigrim(i'm using this film as you mentioned this on that thread).
It doesn't pretend to be Spiderman,and is all the better for it.
At the end of the year,there will be more stand out scenes/lines from this film than Pilgrim in peoples memories.
And this film is waaayyy cooler!

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RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 12/9/2010 10:31:25 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

2/ Are you sure? lol Maybe you're right. I guess I need to double check that...



Yeah he's right.

And Big Daddy as billionaire? They had a ton of money from all the bad guys they'd robbed. 3 million dollars is the figure Hit Girl gives at the end. Between them HG and BD have pretty much brought than a drug empire, I think they'd have plenty of money.

I think its a little unfair of you to make so much of these alleged plotholes, when in fact it pretty much comes down to the fact that you didn't actually pay enough attention to the film.

(in reply to Edward Nygma)
Post #: 221
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 12/9/2010 7:35:29 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB

Mr Nygma,you're being a bit silly here!Have the Pilgrimistas sent you out to slander this decent film? Nope. I became a Pilgrimisto all on my own.
Your list of questions,as said before,could be applied to any film,particularly of this genre. No, not all films of this genre are as inconsistent and uneven as Kick Ass. Maybe Spiderman 3 or Fantastic Four...no that's a bit harsh.
Plot holes?Pilgrim??Please!!?? Was there an ex boyfriend missing? I counted 7...
This is adult entertainment aimed at a more discerning audience than Pigrim(i'm using this film as you mentioned this on that thread). Adult entertainment??? Surely you jest.
It doesn't pretend to be Spiderman,and is all the better for it. Um, it does, a lot of times. Or at least it references it quite a lot.
At the end of the year,there will be more stand out scenes/lines from this film than Pilgrim in peoples memories. More stand out than a Vegan Alliance?
And this film is waaayyy cooler! I...disagree...I'm sorry


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Post #: 222
RE: Kick-Ass - 12/9/2010 7:43:35 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
So this all comes down to a comparison between Pilgrim and Kick-Ass? Suddenly the pettiness all makes sense. I really hope nobody attempts to deconstruct the plot holes of Pilgrim, we'll be here all day.

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Post #: 223
RE: Kick-Ass - 12/9/2010 7:44:38 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
I just did a second reaction piece on the film for my website.

Kick-Ass, 2010. Matthew Vaughn. US/UK

When Stan Lee created Spider-Man in 1968 he brought with him a legendary tagline that would go on to define an era of comic books. The declaration that “With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility” is one that seems like a far more appropriate slogan for Kick-Ass than the overtly smart postmodern idiom actually attached to the film (“With No Power Comes No Responsibility). The power of the eponymous Kick-Ass comes not in superhuman strength or super natural ability, but in his influence on the world around him (although he does have superhuman strength to an extent thanks to his artificial body structure). This could be seen as a commentary on the manner in which superheroes influence their audience, albeit in a more subtle manner than the competitive escalation seen in Kick-Ass. Escalation obviously brings to mind The Dark Knight, with that being the core theme of Christopher Nolan’s Batman arc, and with the manner in which Kick-Ass and to a lesser extent Iron Man 2 (via the formation of The Avengers) also approach the subject I’m beginning to think that escalation may actually be the core theme of the superhero genre as a whole. To successfully convey the heightening of chaos, a filmmaker needs to ably portray a sense of accountability, responsibility if you will, and this is the area in which Kick-Ass works most successfully. That a film as light and base free flowing carries such an emotional kick is a surprising achievement, and marks the film out as an unassuming great (not unlike its own central protagonist).

Visually the film is somewhat disappointing. The purposefully over-saturated look in certain scenes makes for an inconsistent, frustrating visual style, and one that falls flat as a result. Having said that, when director Matthew Vaughn chooses to be more experimental in style the film really benefits, with the perspective scene, shot from the point of view of an infra-red goggle wielding Hit-girl, proving one of the most exciting and inventive action sequences of the last few years. Kick-Ass is, somewhat controversially, scored to tracks from a couple of very recent films. While Quentin Tarantino has made a living from the utilisation of found soundtracks, rescuing semi-obscure movements and pieces from some of his most inspirational films, Vaughn instead uses musical cues from a pair of Danny Boyle films, Sunshine and 28 Days Later, both of which are less than a decade old and still fresh in the memory. At the time of the theatrical release of Kick-Ass many presumed that this was simply a case of a temporary score simply over-impressing the filmmaker, with the commissioned score not living up to the temporary intentions of John Murphy’s Boyle soundtracks. Whatever the incident behind the choice of music, one cannot deny that they are very effective pieces, and ones that add a great deal to the key scenes of the film.



The standout performance comes from Nicolas Cage, with his jail-dented Big Daddy the highlight of the film. Cage is having a fantastic year, with this, alongside his turn in Bad Lieutenant: Port Of Call New Orleans ranking up there at the apex of the actors career. Kick-Ass himself, Aaron Johnson proves a likeable “hero”, with Chloe Moritz’s Hit-girl deserving of the praise and focus of the lauding that that particular character received upon the films initial release. Those who cried “foul” over the character of Hit-girl, citing her as a sexual effort genuinely need their mentality inspecting. How anyone, and Chris Tookey of the Daily Mail this is directly in reference to your disturbing opinion, can find that character in anyway sexual is wholly beyond the realms of rational thinking and reasonable behaviour. While there are many great things to be said about Kick-Ass there are also several flaws. The gangster angle is pretty mediocre, with the ask of buying Dexter Fletcher and Jason Flemyng as Noo Yawk goons an ask too much, although Mark Strong is great as usual, although with that in mind I’m still not wholly convinced by Christopher Mintz-Plasse’s turn (How I long for Richie Rich-era Macaulay Culkin in the role of Red Mist). I do look forward to seeing how his character develops in the next film though, especially in light of Mark Millar’s recent comments regarding the sequel, subtitled Balls To The Wall, further cementing the idea that escalation is a major theme of the Kick-Ass series.-

"It’s gangs going all over New York filming atrocities on their cell phones and putting them on the internet, trying to outdo each other, all at the behest of Red Mist. My idea for Red Mist was to introduce a supervillain that made Heath Ledger’s Joker look like Cesar Romero’s Joker. He’s basically Charles Manson as a supervillain."

(in reply to adambatman82)
Post #: 224
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 12/9/2010 7:48:30 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

2/ Are you sure? lol Maybe you're right. I guess I need to double check that...



Yeah he's right.

And Big Daddy as billionaire? They had a ton of money from all the bad guys they'd robbed. 3 million dollars is the figure Hit Girl gives at the end. Between them HG and BD have pretty much brought than a drug empire, I think they'd have plenty of money.

I think its a little unfair of you to make so much of these alleged plotholes, when in fact it pretty much comes down to the fact that you didn't actually pay enough attention to the film.


They haven't brought down a drug empire, come on, they burnt down a Lumber store! But yes, I will grant you that I forgot about the money and for that I'm sorry. I'm sure they had loads of dough left over after purchasing that jetpack...

Ugh...listen. I didn't make the film this clunky, ok? It did that all by itself. Yes there are plot holes, yes the problem is more poorly handled storytelling/narrative than plot holes and yes I can be forgetful and haven't learned Kick Ass by heart. Hence the questions.

Man, this is Avatar all over again...


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RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 12/9/2010 9:17:45 PM   
BOHEMIANBOB


Posts: 1884
Joined: 31/1/2010
From: Dublin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOHEMIANBOB

Mr Nygma,you're being a bit silly here!Have the Pilgrimistas sent you out to slander this decent film? Nope. I became a Pilgrimisto all on my own.
Your list of questions,as said before,could be applied to any film,particularly of this genre. No, not all films of this genre are as inconsistent and uneven as Kick Ass. Maybe Spiderman 3 or Fantastic Four...no that's a bit harsh.
Plot holes?Pilgrim??Please!!?? Was there an ex boyfriend missing? I counted 7...
This is adult entertainment aimed at a more discerning audience than Pigrim(i'm using this film as you mentioned this on that thread). Adult entertainment??? Surely you jest.
It doesn't pretend to be Spiderman,and is all the better for it. Um, it does, a lot of times. Or at least it references it quite a lot.
At the end of the year,there will be more stand out scenes/lines from this film than Pilgrim in peoples memories. More stand out than a Vegan Alliance?
And this film is waaayyy cooler! I...disagree...I'm sorry


no need to be sorry-but i cannot understand for one second how you could champion the mundane nerd film over a refreshing addition to the comic book genre!!!


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RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 12/9/2010 9:56:25 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

2/ Are you sure? lol Maybe you're right. I guess I need to double check that...



Yeah he's right.

And Big Daddy as billionaire? They had a ton of money from all the bad guys they'd robbed. 3 million dollars is the figure Hit Girl gives at the end. Between them HG and BD have pretty much brought than a drug empire, I think they'd have plenty of money.

I think its a little unfair of you to make so much of these alleged plotholes, when in fact it pretty much comes down to the fact that you didn't actually pay enough attention to the film.


They haven't brought down a drug empire, come on, they burnt down a Lumber store! But yes, I will grant you that I forgot about the money and for that I'm sorry. I'm sure they had loads of dough left over after purchasing that jetpack...




Are you joking? The timber yard was one of many things the pair did. It is explicitly referred to throughout the film, as well as shown on three separate occasions, that BD and HD are bringing the crime gang down from many different angles, starting at the bottom (the lowly gangs). The guy that has his finger cut off? Who claims that something that looked like a bat took their money? He was a strand of the gang. The guy who is placed in the industrial microwave thing and explodes? A different strand of the gang. Christ, there's an animated sequence that explains EXPLICITLY what happened to BD, how he went to jail, and how he's spent the time that he has been free preparing to take down the gang.

And to make the whole thing clear on a completely unarguable level, HIT GIRL SAYS THAT SHE HAS 3 MILLION DOLLARS IN A BANK ACCOUNT!

This is not a plot hole, this is a case of you not paying attention.

PS. The fact that you are throwing around terms like plot hole, while maintaining an AV of the Tim Burton Alice In Wonderland, a film that was wafer thin in terms of narrative, if not completely plotless, reaches impossibly high levels of irony.

(in reply to Edward Nygma)
Post #: 227
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 13/9/2010 1:58:31 AM   
ScrumpyJoe


Posts: 17
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: ScrumpyShire
Guilty

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Post #: 228
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 13/9/2010 11:49:51 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScrumpyJoe

Guilty


Of?

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Post #: 229
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 13/9/2010 1:31:23 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5110
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

Ugh...listen. I didn't make the film this clunky, ok?



After reading your various inaccurate descriptions of it, I'd say you have.

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Post #: 230
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 13/9/2010 2:38:32 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

2/ Are you sure? lol Maybe you're right. I guess I need to double check that...



Yeah he's right.

And Big Daddy as billionaire? They had a ton of money from all the bad guys they'd robbed. 3 million dollars is the figure Hit Girl gives at the end. Between them HG and BD have pretty much brought than a drug empire, I think they'd have plenty of money.

I think its a little unfair of you to make so much of these alleged plotholes, when in fact it pretty much comes down to the fact that you didn't actually pay enough attention to the film.


They haven't brought down a drug empire, come on, they burnt down a Lumber store! But yes, I will grant you that I forgot about the money and for that I'm sorry. I'm sure they had loads of dough left over after purchasing that jetpack...




Are you joking? The timber yard was one of many things the pair did. It is explicitly referred to throughout the film, as well as shown on three separate occasions, that BD and HD are bringing the crime gang down from many different angles, starting at the bottom (the lowly gangs). The guy that has his finger cut off? Who claims that something that looked like a bat took their money? He was a strand of the gang. The guy who is placed in the industrial microwave thing and explodes? A different strand of the gang. Christ, there's an animated sequence that explains EXPLICITLY what happened to BD, how he went to jail, and how he's spent the time that he has been free preparing to take down the gang.

And to make the whole thing clear on a completely unarguable level, HIT GIRL SAYS THAT SHE HAS 3 MILLION DOLLARS IN A BANK ACCOUNT!

This is not a plot hole, this is a case of you not paying attention.

PS. The fact that you are throwing around terms like plot hole, while maintaining an AV of the Tim Burton Alice In Wonderland, a film that was wafer thin in terms of narrative, if not completely plotless, reaches impossibly high levels of irony.




Argh, you need to pay mopre attention to what I write! I was making a joke with the Lumber Yard thing, sense the tone dude. I know that guy's finger got cut off, that other guy was crushed in his car etc. And probably a million other things before that. A jetpack is expensive, even if you have 3 million dollars, I'm just sayin'... Even if they did do a million things to these guys, apart from making them very angry I don't see how it's affected them that much. They can still afford Mist Mobiles and shit! It feels like they could have tried to go through the building and take them down like HG does pretty much single handedly at the end ages ago.

And I TOLD YOU that I FORGOT about that HG line and I said I was SORRY so STOP being a DOUUUUUUCHE and taking things so SERIOUSLY! I was paying attention, I heard the line, then forgot about it when I wrote down my questions. Jeez.

As for the Alice in Wonderland thing, if you had thought about it more than two seconds, the problem with the film was that it had TOO MUCH narrative. Alice in Wonderland should be nothing more than Alice walking around seeing weird shit happening and getting thrown into crazy settings and situations. The fact they added a somewhat clichéd, very clear narrative strand I think made the film less spontaneous, less anarchic and therefore less successful as an Alice in Wonderland adaptation. Having said that, I liked the film's visuals and found the whole thing very entertaining.

I stand by my avatar and fart in your general direction. Sir.

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Post #: 231
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 13/9/2010 2:51:16 PM   
Edward Nygma

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 28/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward Nygma

Ugh...listen. I didn't make the film this clunky, ok?



After reading your various inaccurate descriptions of it, I'd say you have.


I don't think I've been inacurrate, I've only been asking questions in order to understand if the many things that annoyed me about this film were indeed plotholes or stuff that was just skipped quickly in the narrative that I didn't get. So far only jobloffski has managed to clarify certain things and respond without being sarcastic or blinded by an inexplicable Kickassian filter of adoration...

As for Scott Pilgrim, the fim never pretended to be anything more than a clever, fast-paced, gloriously silly teen movie. Had Kick Ass shown more consistency in its tone it could have been just as good, if not better. I just think Kick Ass falls short of Scott Pilgrim in terms of overall quality...but that's my opinion so don't take it as gospel.

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Post #: 232
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 26/9/2010 5:20:04 PM   
McGeesJabberwock

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 26/9/2010
The appeal of the superhero genre lies mostly in its escapism. Fans of Superman and Spiderman love the stories partly because they like to picture themselves having the heroes’ powers and living in the heroes’ world. The evolution of special effects technology has meant an increase in superhero movies because a realistically-rendered version of a world with superheroes helps us pretend that one exists.

Even with the joys of its escapism, there exists a temptation to expose an uglier, realistic side to this genre. Alan Moore brilliantly deconstructed the comic book hero in his famous Watchmen graphic novel (which was recently brought to the screen by Zack Snyder), and Kick-Ass, based on the comic by Mark Millar, intends to tell a more realistic story of more normal superheroes. It may not be as dark or as insightful as Watchmen, but it isn’t meant to be, and is still an entertaining twist on a popular genre that should please the comic book fans.

Average, nerdy teenager Dave Lizewski (Aaron Johnson) has pondered why nobody in real life has ever tried to become a superhero, and is irritated that, while he was being mugged, a man just watched and did nothing. Thus, he is inspired to don a wetsuit and become a flamboyant vigilante known as ‘Kick-Ass’, despite lacking expertise in any form. He gets off to a rather painful start but ends up becoming famous and an online sensation. His costumed life gets a bit more complicated, however, when he learns of two other heroes, the Batman-esque Big Daddy (Nicholas Cage), and the eleven year old killing machine Hit Girl (Chloe Mortez), as well as the criminal dealings of Frank D’Amico (Mark Strong).

As said before, this is a more realistic portrayal of a world of superheroes. The heroes themselves have no special powers and fight drug lords and thugs rather than supervillains with laser guns. The film does a fine job removing the escapism from superheroism; the life of a vigilante here is more dangerous than exciting. Scenes like David’s disastrous first day as Kick-Ass and when D’Amico tortures him and Big Daddy are shockingly and fittingly brutal. It may have its humorous moments, and these moments are really humorous, but that does not mean it does not have its serious side.

However the film is better in its more comedic moments, especially in its deceptive intro and how it spoofs the opening narrations of Spiderman. The third act succumbs to the typical action move clichés and thus drags somewhat. It makes the film feel a bit too long for its own good, despite how much is happening in the story.

The story may feel padded, but the characters and how they are acted help to keep it interesting. They actually feel like real people, which is always refreshing in a comic book movie. Aaron Johnson plays David in a believable way experiencing thrills doubt and uncertainty as he moves through his heroic career and Cruse obviously channelling Adam West, gives a sophisticated yet corny air to his character. The best performance comes from Mortez; Hit Girl is amusingly cynical and determined, and her relationship with her father is one of the film’s biggest joys.

It will probably be the violence that attracts the viewers rather than the characters though and it certainly delvers when it comes to action, highlights including the fight which gains Kick-Ass his fame and a frantic fire at D’Amico’s hideout. The more active sequences are well-directed and energetic but can get quite bloody and the character’s murdering and lack of remorse over it may put off some viewers.

It may not be on the level of The Dark Knight or Watchmen, but Kick-Ass is still an entertaining, funny and exciting picture. It may not be for those with a weak stomach though, but should be great for those with secret superhero dreams.

(in reply to Edward Nygma)
Post #: 233
RE: Kick-Ass - 26/9/2010 6:34:11 PM   
carolanne93

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 26/9/2010
I LOVE kick-ass its my favourite film of all time, i pre-ordered it just so i would get it as soon as it was released, i've watched it so many times and i still think its amazing, it covers a variety of genres and is extremly emotive, i've cried, laughed got excited its unreal. All of the cast deserve praise their all extremly talented. I also love Christopher Mintz-Plasse aka Red Mist <3

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Post #: 234
Weird, very weird! - 16/10/2010 9:34:49 PM   
Sphinx


Posts: 1805
Joined: 11/9/2006
From: East London
This thing takes forever to get going, Aaron Johnson plays the title for no apparent reason other than a brainstorm, Mark Strong has been tangoed and is a bad guy - Cool American accent - Nic Cage plays Big Daddy and has just outed himself in this film as a comic geek, now wrong with that I...guess. There there's the kid that is seemingly the love-child of Kyle Reece and Beatrix Kiddo, INSANE!!

This film is like marmite, works for some not others I'm still making my mind up - the action was cool though


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Post #: 235
RE: Weird, very weird! - 19/10/2010 7:49:38 PM   
bozo


Posts: 2512
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: HM Prison Slade
Unbelievable. I've been a movie fanatic since the early 90s and I've watched countless films, but I don't remember EVER being so impressed, entertained and downright awed by a film. Courageous, meaningful, funny, stylish, awesome movie.

(in reply to Sphinx)
Post #: 236
RE: The Kick Ass Trial (dun dun duuun) - 25/10/2010 12:32:19 AM   
properdave

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 24/10/2010
quote:

It may not be as dark or as insightful as Watchmen, but it isn’t meant to be


I think it is a very modern version of Watchmen, it's still dark, but also very entertaining and funny. You can see how they highlight the issues ie the burdens being placed upon the youth of today, in the same manner.

(in reply to McGeesJabberwock)
Post #: 237
RE: Weird, very weird! - 25/10/2010 12:41:23 AM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3239
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sphinx
Nic Cage plays Big Daddy and has just outed himself in this film as a comic geek, now wrong with that I...guess.



Wasn't naming his son Kal-el after Superman the giveaway?


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Post #: 238
RE: - 2/2/2011 5:15:43 AM   
VincentOMoh

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 2/2/2011
From one of Edward Nygma's posts, I saw:
"8/ Did the mafia guys hire a net designer to set up the whole Kick Ass unmasked online thing? It looks pretty professional. And if so...Why? Who cares if people see Kick Ass unmasked or not, isn't it just risky and ridiculously unnecessary to show themselves online killing these two guys? I really don't get that whole thing. Just kill 'em! WTF???'

The mafia goons intended to torture Kick-Ass and give him a horrible death - they believed doing so would discourage people from becoming a superhero. Outright killing him wouldn't have given the same effect as beating him into pulp and then setting him on fire. Torturing him would shock the people of the United States.

And the idea of "Kick-Ass unmasked" was just a ploy to draw people into seeing the video. The video promised showing his real identity - instead it showed his torture. It was a bait and switch. It meant that a portion of it got to air on TV (and millions of people got to see it) before the newscasters pulled it. But everyone who saw it on TV rushed to their computers to watch the rest. Frank D'Amico knew what he was doing, and he convinced everyone to watch the execution video

As for "isn't it just risky and ridiculously unnecessary to show themselves online killing these two guys? " - Nope, not when they are wearing balaclavas. Could you identify the faces of the men doing it? No, because they wore ski masks, which hid their identities.

And if you were wondering about tracing websites, the mafia knows how to proxy and/or otherwise how to obscure the origin of the website.

When I was a child, I wondered why bad guys on TV and in movies didn't just kill their victims right away. Now I know why.
Post #: 239
RE: Deliriously Entertaining - 28/3/2011 1:43:11 PM   
BobM70


Posts: 958
Joined: 29/12/2005
Wonderful comedy.
It's very violent though. It has superb, almost Hong Kong style action, but it's still a comedy.
I laughed so hard at times. I like the references to the superhero genre.
Cage is back to what he used to do best: freaking out onscreen. He is enjoying himself inmensely.
I read comments on plotholes, sillyness and other serious critique, but all ofi this is useless. This is not a serious action movie. It is a comedy in the same mold as Raising Arizona was, or even the first American Pie movie (replace the violence with sex and there you have it)
It's over the top fun, with a silly storyline and lots of blood.
What makes it more close to Raising Arizona and further from American Pie: it's superbly directed by Vaugh.

A 9 out a 10

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