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RE: Ah, Empire, You're Quite Dead to Me Now

 
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RE: Ah, Empire, You're Quite Dead to Me Now - 15/12/2009 1:42:52 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE

And you gave Taken 1 star you bastards!!!!





That's one star too many, from the little I've seen.


Its about 50 stars too many...

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(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 151
RE: Ah, Empire, You're Quite Dead to Me Now - 15/12/2009 1:43:09 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE

And you gave Taken 1 star you bastards!!!!





That's one star too many, from the little I've seen.


Renders your statement pointless, dude.
Or are we awarding stars for segments of films now?


Aboslutely true, but it really didn't inspire me to see the rest. At all. That stupid annoying daughter warrants the lack of stars alone.


quote:

ORIGINAL: shool



And there was me thinking you werent a big blockbuster kind of guy. I dont think this is going to be a Tarkovsky you know.



If I get something close to the quality of a Miyazaki feature (and not Ferngully Redux) and something relatively close as fun as Verhoeven's films, I'll be happy. Doesn't have to be as good, just decent enough to watch.

Or I could get something as awesome as Aliens or Terminator, which would be great. And make me a happy man. But I doubt that.



_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to CORLEONE)
Post #: 152
RE: Ah, Empire, You're Quite Dead to Me Now - 15/12/2009 2:00:38 PM   
CORLEONE

 

Posts: 4675
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Nakatomi Plaza
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE

And you gave Taken 1 star you bastards!!!!





That's one star too many, from the little I've seen.


Renders your statement pointless, dude.
Or are we awarding stars for segments of films now?


Aboslutely true, but it really didn't inspire me to see the rest. At all. That stupid annoying daughter warrants the lack of stars alone.



A shame the small bit you watched included that annoying little shit! Neeson kicking arse would be a preferred tit bit

_____________________________

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(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 153
RE: Ah, Empire, You're Quite Dead to Me Now - 15/12/2009 4:33:06 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
I still am not convinced.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to CORLEONE)
Post #: 154
RE: Dances with Ferngully.. Lost the Plot. - 15/12/2009 4:35:05 PM   
shool


Posts: 9983
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blindfold

what is with all the SPAM on this page- Nothing to do with the Avatar Review???

Speaking of AVATAR.. 5 Stars. Short story - I disagree.

I think when the DVD rears round Empire will snip a couple of stars off like it does to many a bloated blockbuster it gives high ratings to in the festive and summer periods. Anyopne else ever notice how Empire can sometimes get to hyped up by films and give them 4 and 5 star reviews which sink down to 2 and 3 star rattings on disc... Hmmmmm....


Have you seen it? If not what are you basing this on?

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Post #: 155
RE: Dances with Ferngully.. Lost the Plot. - 15/12/2009 4:36:52 PM   
captainrentboy

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 16/3/2008
From: South Wales
quote:

ORIGINAL: blindfold

what is with all the SPAM on this page- Nothing to do with the Avatar Review???

Speaking of AVATAR.. 5 Stars. Short story - I disagree.

I think when the DVD rears round Empire will snip a couple of stars off like it does to many a bloated blockbuster it gives high ratings to in the festive and summer periods. Anyopne else ever notice how Empire can sometimes get to hyped up by films and give them 4 and 5 star reviews which sink down to 2 and 3 star rattings on disc... Hmmmmm....


My personal opinion on quite a few films has dropped with the transistion from whopping great cinema screen coupled with deafening sound, to watching it on DVD/BR in my house. Sometimes the cinema experience really does add a star or maybe two to some of the bigger blockbusters out there. That's all IMO of course
Post #: 156
The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:10:06 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icon

I have bought your magazine for 10 years, the first issue was no 98. You had a feature on people who were extra's in movies. I particularly remember one guy, a red haired chap who had the shit kicked out of him for eating crisps around Begbie in Trainspotting. In those 10 years, I have bought every single Empire issue. I think I missed one. Let's have a quick tot there, shall we? (12 issues x £5)x10 years. £600-£5=£595. Not bad. I thought it would have been more. Anyway, I say this to prove a point.

I can forgive your relentless Star Wars plugging, your entire office seems to be obsessed with it.
I can forgive you all sucking the ego of Spielberg in the hope that he can ejaculate some presence over your magazine.
I can forgive you flossing yourselves with the hairs from Lucas' ass as he raped my childhood.
And I can forgive you giving 5 stars to Jackson's King Kong, a bloated piece of trash that didn't deserve any attention as well, he made LOTR and that was great.

However, giving this movie 5 stars has provided the final severence to the final tendon that connects your head to your body. Because Empire, you are no longer the magazine that I enjoyed. You are too concerned with staying in the big boys good graces as that keeps your minions jobs secure. I don't blame you, I'm a corporate zone too. I have seen Avatar. It is NOT a 5 star movie. It is a 3 star movie. Cameron was too obsessed with the genius behind his own technology to imbue any wit, feeling, sentiment, anger, hope, love and tonic into this "epic". It is not a good movie. Cameron has Ratnered himself.

As a critical magazine, you failed. You're job is to review what's there. You have become an X-Factor judge. Hewitt, you have probably met Cameron and have him convince you how it's a game changer. Congratulations, he was right. It was. You just said so.

You have already used up one of your three bad movie reviews on Wolverine. I was heartened to see you review that properly. But, it was a second time director and an inoffensive star. You chose well.

Anyway, it's all pointless in the end. You shall continue stroking the egos of the next big thing. The journalists that make up the whole will bite down their true feelings and post a kind review for the greater good.


What self-important (plus grammatically bizarre) bollocks.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Brundlesflies

Game-changer or not, it is still just a film isn't it!?!



It's rather telling that the best the Empire loyalists can come up with is dismissive, nasty comments.
Icon may put his points in a slightly florid style but much of what he says rings true. The fact is that Empire has cried "5 Star Classic" on too many turkeys to be ignored any more. And these are nearly all films that have been hyped up to the max by the film industry.
One can only speculate as to why this is: Perhaps the critics are so excited by the hype that they can't get any objectivity on the movie and just gush praise through sheer excitement. Or, more perniciously, one can only wonder if, perhaps, the corporate hand of hollywood is subtly guiding the pens of the critics (or at least offering some incentives). There is strong impression of film industry appeasement given the correlation of Empire exclusives, to excessive hype, to excessive praise in the reviews.
Whatever the reason, us the paying public are being failed by Empire since the reviews have been proven so unreliable. A point proven given the amount of times Empires has to re-write a review (and reduce the star rating) come DVD release. Clearly you don't have confidence in your own opinion at the time of the original release. If that isn't proof of a failed review, I don't know what is. One only has to mention such recent sub-standard offerings which Empire proclaimed "Classic" or "Excellent" to see the trend. Films like Terminator Salvation (4 stars) , Phantom Menace (5 stars), Superman Returns (5 stars), Oceans’s 13 (4 stars), Indian Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (4 stars), Attack of the clones (5 stars -Chris Hewitt at time of publication; subsequently reduced to 3!), King Kong (5 stars), The Last Samurai (5 stars). All massively hyped, all massively praised, all massively disappointing IMHO)

I know, I know, its all just one guys opinion over another's... But honestly, I don't think there is a single "Classic" in that list, and I think you'd struggle to convince anyone there was. And we, your loyal readership, are going out and wasting our money on this stuff.

To be clear - I haven't seen Avatar yet. And I'm not passing judgement on this movie yet. It's unfortunate that this seems to be the movie that broke the camels back since I doubt it will be a total turkey. But, Empire, if you want to cling on to any credibility you have to take seriously the number of people who feel you have mislead them. We don't get free press passes like you guys - we're forking out excessive multiplex prices on this stuff.

As for Brundleflies comments that "it's just a film..."; I'm sorry but some of us aren't so complacent about movies. For some of us movies are a passion, a life enriching thing of wonder. That's why we care. That's why we don't like to see film culture distorted and turned into a never-ending parade the popcorn-munching-dumbed-down pap.

Note to Moderator: My points above are purely speculative so please don't threaten me with libel laws, as you did last time I mentioned these issues. Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing.

< Message edited by fierce-hairdo -- 15/12/2009 5:17:57 PM >

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 157
RE: Dances with Ferngully.. Lost the Plot. - 15/12/2009 5:16:29 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: captainrentboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: blindfold

what is with all the SPAM on this page- Nothing to do with the Avatar Review???

Speaking of AVATAR.. 5 Stars. Short story - I disagree.

I think when the DVD rears round Empire will snip a couple of stars off like it does to many a bloated blockbuster it gives high ratings to in the festive and summer periods. Anyopne else ever notice how Empire can sometimes get to hyped up by films and give them 4 and 5 star reviews which sink down to 2 and 3 star rattings on disc... Hmmmmm....


My personal opinion on quite a few films has dropped with the transistion from whopping great cinema screen coupled with deafening sound, to watching it on DVD/BR in my house. Sometimes the cinema experience really does add a star or maybe two to some of the bigger blockbusters out there. That's all IMO of course


Oh come on! They're supposed to review the FILM, not the fricking cinema or TV they're watching it on! Correcting reviews at DVD release is unforgivable and proof of the failure of the critic to adequately inform his readership at the time of release.

(in reply to captainrentboy)
Post #: 158
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:18:09 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
If it bothers you that much why bother coming to the website? Its not like you paid to read this review.


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Post #: 159
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:23:30 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

If it bothers you that much why bother coming to the website? Its not like you paid to read this review.



Indeed. Its like the Daily Mail's comment section in here.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 160
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:25:36 PM   
shool


Posts: 9983
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

If it bothers you that much why bother coming to the website? Its not like you paid to read this review.



Indeed. Its like the Daily Mail's comment section in here.


Its just boring.

Especially since this film is getting good reviews across the board. Yet its Empire that are selling out.

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
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(in reply to adambatman82)
Post #: 161
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:26:28 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

If it bothers you that much why bother coming to the website? Its not like you paid to read this review.



Ah, the old "go-and-play-on-your-own" routine.

Doesn't it bother you if you go and pay for a movie that you were wrongly informed was good??
I love films. I care if the biggest film magazine in the country has a habit of blindly selling Hollywwod pap. Because the flip side of that is that that low-budget, artistically adventurous but perhaps less profitable movies are sold short. More importantly we, the film going public, are sold short.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 162
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:48:41 PM   
Quint


Posts: 603
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Napa, CA
If you look on rotten tomatoes you'll see it's not just Empire that are very impressed with this movie, but a host of critics. Indeed, this film is getting great views almost across the board...maybe Chris was on to something? Or maybe the man/woman/dog named 'fierce-hairdo', who hasn't actually seen the film but vehemently believes the review is wrong, is the unsung genius here...Nah, I'm listening to Chris on this one.

< Message edited by Quint -- 15/12/2009 5:49:46 PM >


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Post #: 163
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:53:36 PM   
Neth


Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo

Doesn't it bother you if you go and pay for a movie that you were wrongly informed was good??




Do you always base your viewing choices on a single source of information? Welcome to the internet, where a whole host of opinions are on-hand to help you make a potentially-reliable decision.

And if the vast majority still decree it to be "good" and you don't agree, doesn't that suggest the problem lays at your end? It's great to have your own opinion, but does that entitle you to berate that of others when they don't match up?

< Message edited by Neth -- 15/12/2009 5:54:18 PM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 164
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:54:50 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

the number of people who feel you have mislead them

No you haven't been - the reviewer gave their opinion. If people don't get what a review is I suggest they try a dictionary. If you ever see the movie you're having a go at the reviewer on, you'll no doubt have your own opinion. So post it. Which used to be what these threads were for.

And I frankly find that argument rather silly - it's tantamount to saying you are paying other people to have your opinions for you and they owe you a duty of care to match yours to the letter which is absolutely absurd. And it is unsurprising that anyone slating the review when they haven't seen the film has no credibility because they don't have a clue how they'll react themselves unless they are solely primed to attack by prejudging.

The day I take any review as gospel I'll sign myself up for the old people's home and give up on thinking for myself.

Some people take the idea of a review - ONE person's opinion - waaaaaay too seriously. You only have a case if you can - credibly - suggest the reviewer doesn't actually hold that opinion and is deliberately misleading. If you have any evidence of that - go for it. Otherwise, all you're doing is disagreeing with the man (albeit, for the most part in this thread, with absolutely no basis to do so, not having seen the damn film) - so what? No review will ever get 100% agreement. I can't remember the last time I agreed with a 5* review in the mag - so what? They probably don't agree with me either.





< Message edited by elab49 -- 15/12/2009 5:56:33 PM >


_____________________________

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to fierce-hairdo)
Post #: 165
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:55:12 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quint

If you look on rotten tomatoes you'll see it's not just Empire that are very impressed with this movie, but a host of critics. Indeed, this film is getting great views almost across the board...maybe Chris was on to something? Or maybe the man/woman/dog named 'fierce-hairdo', who hasn't actually seen the film but vehemently believes the review is wrong, is the unsung genius here...Nah, I'm listening to Chris on this one.


How sweet. Did you trust him on his 5 star Attack of the Clones review also...? Bless.

Look, as I said earlier I'm not passing judgement on Avatar - I haven't seen it yet. I suspect it will probably be pretty good, actually. But I am saying that Empire has called it wrong on so many occasions now that one has to be a little suspicious. But don't worry about addressing my points, just call me names instead if it makes you feel better...

(in reply to Quint)
Post #: 166
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 5:59:38 PM   
Quint


Posts: 603
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Napa, CA

quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Quint

If you look on rotten tomatoes you'll see it's not just Empire that are very impressed with this movie, but a host of critics. Indeed, this film is getting great views almost across the board...maybe Chris was on to something? Or maybe the man/woman/dog named 'fierce-hairdo', who hasn't actually seen the film but vehemently believes the review is wrong, is the unsung genius here...Nah, I'm listening to Chris on this one.


How sweet. Did you trust him on his 5 star Attack of the Clones review also...? Bless.

Look, as I said earlier I'm not passing judgement on Avatar - I haven't seen it yet. I suspect it will probably be pretty good, actually. But I am saying that Empire has called it wrong on so many occasions now that one has to be a little suspicious. But don't worry about addressing my points, just call me names instead if it makes you feel better...


You'll note that I pointed out the fact that other reviews were in agreement over Avatar, that wasn't the case with Clones so it's a different kettle of fish. I addressed the fact that you ignored the points others have made, in particular that almost every critic agrees with Chris, so maybe this particular review isn't the one you use to attack Empire's reliability. But again, you ignored that and moaned about being called names.

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Post #: 167
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:09:02 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


quote:

the number of people who feel you have mislead them

No you haven't been - the reviewer gave their opinion. If people don't get what a review is I suggest they try a dictionary. If you ever see the movie you're having a go at the reviewer on, you'll no doubt have your own opinion. So post it. Which used to be what these threads were for.

And I frankly find that argument rather silly - it's tantamount to saying you are paying other people to have your opinions for you and they owe you a duty of care to match yours to the letter which is absolutely absurd. And it is unsurprising that anyone slating the review when they haven't seen the film has no credibility because they don't have a clue how they'll react themselves unless they are solely primed to attack by prejudging.

The day I take any review as gospel I'll sign myself up for the old people's home and give up on thinking for myself.

Some people take the idea of a review - ONE person's opinion - waaaaaay too seriously. You only have a case if you can - credibly - suggest the reviewer doesn't actually hold that opinion and is deliberately misleading. If you have any evidence of that - go for it. Otherwise, all you're doing is disagreeing with the man (albeit, for the most part in this thread, with absolutely no basis to do so, not having seen the damn film) - so what? No review will ever get 100% agreement. I can't remember the last time I agreed with a 5* review in the mag - so what? They probably don't agree with me either.







Of course, I read all sorts of reviews to get an idea of what to see. And I very much make my own mind up once I've seen the film. And, to be honest, I gave up trusting Empire years ago. But as I said in my earlier post - the correlation between hype and 5 star reviews is too obvious to ignore and just put down to coincidence. And I think it's a plain faliure of a film critics job to obediantly beat the hollywood drum so relentlessly. A film critic doesn't just offer "one guy's opinion", he/she also has to help the punters get a true picture of the movie without the bias of advertising and hype. It sometimes seems like Empire has forgotten that and rather serves just to reinforce the hype.

Furthermore, we do have some evidence: the re-rating of reviews come DVD release. It is nearly always in one direction - down (from hyped up "5 star masterpiece" to " 3 star - um,..not quite as good as we thought now the excitements died down... ". It obeys Hollywoods decree to get bum's on seats no-matter-what and leaves credibility until DVD release (or at least it looks that way more and more).

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 168
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:12:23 PM   
Neth


Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo

Furthermore, we do have some evidence: the re-rating of reviews come DVD release. It is nearly always in one direction - down (from hyped up "5 star masterpiece" to " 3 star - um,..not quite as good as we thought now the excitements died down... ". It obeys Hollywoods decree to get bum's on seats no-matter-what and leaves credibility until DVD release (or at least it looks that way more and more).




You know they're written by different reviewers, right?


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Post #: 169
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:13:45 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quint


quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Quint

If you look on rotten tomatoes you'll see it's not just Empire that are very impressed with this movie, but a host of critics. Indeed, this film is getting great views almost across the board...maybe Chris was on to something? Or maybe the man/woman/dog named 'fierce-hairdo', who hasn't actually seen the film but vehemently believes the review is wrong, is the unsung genius here...Nah, I'm listening to Chris on this one.


How sweet. Did you trust him on his 5 star Attack of the Clones review also...? Bless.

Look, as I said earlier I'm not passing judgement on Avatar - I haven't seen it yet. I suspect it will probably be pretty good, actually. But I am saying that Empire has called it wrong on so many occasions now that one has to be a little suspicious. But don't worry about addressing my points, just call me names instead if it makes you feel better...


You'll note that I pointed out the fact that other reviews were in agreement over Avatar, that wasn't the case with Clones so it's a different kettle of fish. I addressed the fact that you ignored the points others have made, in particular that almost every critic agrees with Chris, so maybe this particular review isn't the one you use to attack Empire's reliability. But again, you ignored that and moaned about being called names.


I addressed the point earlier:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fierce-hairdo

To be clear - I haven't seen Avatar yet. And I'm not passing judgement on this movie yet. It's unfortunate that this seems to be the movie that broke the camels back since I doubt it will be a total turkey. But, Empire, if you want to cling on to any credibility you have to take seriously the number of people who feel you have mislead them. We don't get free press passes like you guys - we're forking out excessive multiplex prices on this stuff.




(in reply to Quint)
Post #: 170
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:16:17 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

A film critic doesn't just offer "one guy's opinion", he/she also has to help the punters get a true picture of the movie


I'm sorry, but you really need to reread that sentence - what exactly is the 'true' picture? And therein is the problem - there is no 'accepted' "everyone must think the same way" opinion (only person I know who thinks that is a regular multi-banned troll on here - not a view you really want to sign up with) - you get one person's view of what that is. Or do you believe the start of Dead Poet's Society? A nice wee graph and a score tells you if your poem is any good or not - can that apply to films? Because I'm pretty sure the message we take from that is the idea is bull.

So you get critics who like films and critics who loathe the same film - you seem to be wanting some kind of consensus committee and that isn't going to happen. And, again - unless you can prove the reviewer wrote something they didn't believe - you have no argument. I could spend my days on here in the There Will Be Blood thread saying everyone else is wrong - or Annie Hall. Christ, Annie Hall. Thing is - it's just my opinion.

Re-rating isn't proof - it is someone different doing the review. Happens quite often - Empire are perfectly open about it. Also, peoples' views on the same films can change - happens to me all the time. Maybe there is just something wrong with me too?

So - anyone actually seen the bloody film and wants to talk about it? Anyone? At all? Because I'm sure there is a slagging Empire with no actual robust basis everyone else can head off to - particularly as it is clear the 'arguments' are not Avatar specific but general.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to fierce-hairdo)
Post #: 171
RE: Dances with Ferngully.. Lost the Plot. - 15/12/2009 6:19:44 PM   
captainrentboy

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 16/3/2008
From: South Wales
quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo


quote:

ORIGINAL: captainrentboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: blindfold

what is with all the SPAM on this page- Nothing to do with the Avatar Review???

Speaking of AVATAR.. 5 Stars. Short story - I disagree.

I think when the DVD rears round Empire will snip a couple of stars off like it does to many a bloated blockbuster it gives high ratings to in the festive and summer periods. Anyopne else ever notice how Empire can sometimes get to hyped up by films and give them 4 and 5 star reviews which sink down to 2 and 3 star rattings on disc... Hmmmmm....


My personal opinion on quite a few films has dropped with the transistion from whopping great cinema screen coupled with deafening sound, to watching it on DVD/BR in my house. Sometimes the cinema experience really does add a star or maybe two to some of the bigger blockbusters out there. That's all IMO of course


Oh come on! They're supposed to review the FILM, not the fricking cinema or TV they're watching it on! Correcting reviews at DVD release is unforgivable and proof of the failure of the critic to adequately inform his readership at the time of release.


I didn't say anything about Empire and their reviews though 
The whole comment was about how films, for ME, can become less impressive when watched at home.
And with regards to Empire, like the poster above said, occasionally it's literally a totally different reviewer giving their verdict on the DVD.

(in reply to fierce-hairdo)
Post #: 172
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:23:41 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

If it bothers you that much why bother coming to the website? Its not like you paid to read this review.



Ah, the old "go-and-play-on-your-own" routine.

Doesn't it bother you if you go and pay for a movie that you were wrongly informed was good??
I love films. I care if the biggest film magazine in the country has a habit of blindly selling Hollywwod pap. Because the flip side of that is that that low-budget, artistically adventurous but perhaps less profitable movies are sold short. More importantly we, the film going public, are sold short.


Examples? And to be honest there are plenty of reviews I don't agree with, but they are ones Empire gave low ratings for. Doomsday, Taken, Punisher Warzone etc...

Doesn't mean they have an agenda. Just different viewpoints. And as you say, you look at more than one review so you should get an idea of whether you will like the film or not, beyond just what Empire says.

As to the film itself - tickets booked, looking forward to it.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to fierce-hairdo)
Post #: 173
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:24:32 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neth

quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo

Furthermore, we do have some evidence: the re-rating of reviews come DVD release. It is nearly always in one direction - down (from hyped up "5 star masterpiece" to " 3 star - um,..not quite as good as we thought now the excitements died down... ". It obeys Hollywoods decree to get bum's on seats no-matter-what and leaves credibility until DVD release (or at least it looks that way more and more).




You know they're written by different reviewers, right?



Of course. Are you aware that magazines have editors? Isn't it funny that the cinema release is always the suspect review and the DVD release the more honest, less questionable review? Just the way the film industry would like it - feed the hype at release time when they need bums-on-seats and get honest later on. Any film critic worth his salt would be less influenced by hype in the first place. They should get it right the first time. It' naive to suggest that it's just two different opinions but that the over excited one always fits with the film release. If it was you'd get more films being reviewed MORE favorably at DVD release, but that hardly ever happens.. as far as I can see.

(in reply to Neth)
Post #: 174
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:33:29 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

If it bothers you that much why bother coming to the website? Its not like you paid to read this review.



Ah, the old "go-and-play-on-your-own" routine.

Doesn't it bother you if you go and pay for a movie that you were wrongly informed was good??
I love films. I care if the biggest film magazine in the country has a habit of blindly selling Hollywwod pap. Because the flip side of that is that that low-budget, artistically adventurous but perhaps less profitable movies are sold short. More importantly we, the film going public, are sold short.


Examples?


Didn't Japanese film Departures get 5 stars? Didn't The White Ribbon get 4 stars (lacking one star for the worst reason imaginable)? Didn't they give a decent amount of focus to films like Southland Tales, Sunshine, The Box, District 9, Cloverfield, Rescue Dawn (the article on Herzog) and if I remember well, bring to attention films like The Baader Mienhoff Complex?

They do offer these films some coverage, not as much as the bigger ones, but they do give them coverage.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 175
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:42:49 PM   
Neth


Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo

It' naive to suggest that it's just two different opinions but that the over excited one always fits with the film release. If it was you'd get more films being reviewed MORE favorably at DVD release, but that hardly ever happens.. as far as I can see.



Happened this month with Half Blood Prince. Three stars in cinemas, four on DVD. I'm sure there's plenty other examples through the history of the magazine. Two stars for The Crying Game's cinema release, maybe?


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(in reply to fierce-hairdo)
Post #: 176
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:44:33 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

A film critic doesn't just offer "one guy's opinion", he/she also has to help the punters get a true picture of the movie


I'm sorry, but you really need to reread that sentence - what exactly is the 'true' picture? And therein is the problem - there is no 'accepted' "everyone must think the same way" opinion (only person I know who thinks that is a regular multi-banned troll on here - not a view you really want to sign up with) - you get one person's view of what that is. Or do you believe the start of Dead Poet's Society? A nice wee graph and a score tells you if your poem is any good or not - can that apply to films? Because I'm pretty sure the message we take from that is the idea is bull.

So you get critics who like films and critics who loathe the same film - you seem to be wanting some kind of consensus committee and that isn't going to happen. And, again - unless you can prove the reviewer wrote something they didn't believe - you have no argument. I could spend my days on here in the There Will Be Blood thread saying everyone else is wrong - or Annie Hall. Christ, Annie Hall. Thing is - it's just my opinion.

Re-rating isn't proof - it is someone different doing the review. Happens quite often - Empire are perfectly open about it. Also, peoples' views on the same films can change - happens to me all the time. Maybe there is just something wrong with me too?

So - anyone actually seen the bloody film and wants to talk about it? Anyone? At all? Because I'm sure there is a slagging Empire with no actual robust basis everyone else can head off to - particularly as it is clear the 'arguments' are not Avatar specific but general.


I definitely do not want a consensus or views reached by committee. But what you're saying just amounts to relativism. As if no opinion should carry any more weight than any other. If what you're saying were true a five year old child's view on, say The White Ribbon, would be as as valid as someone more informed. I don't think that's the case. I think a skilled reviewer can have an opinion one disagrees with and still give an honest insight into what the film has to offer. It's as if you think it is impossible for a film review to be misleading.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 177
RE: The Boy Who cried "Classic"... - 15/12/2009 6:48:42 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

If it bothers you that much why bother coming to the website? Its not like you paid to read this review.



Ah, the old "go-and-play-on-your-own" routine.

Doesn't it bother you if you go and pay for a movie that you were wrongly informed was good??
I love films. I care if the biggest film magazine in the country has a habit of blindly selling Hollywwod pap. Because the flip side of that is that that low-budget, artistically adventurous but perhaps less profitable movies are sold short. More importantly we, the film going public, are sold short.


Examples?


Didn't Japanese film Departures get 5 stars? Didn't The White Ribbon get 4 stars (lacking one star for the worst reason imaginable)? Didn't they give a decent amount of focus to films like Southland Tales, Sunshine, The Box, District 9, Cloverfield, Rescue Dawn (the article on Herzog) and if I remember well, bring to attention films like The Baader Mienhoff Complex?

They do offer these films some coverage, not as much as the bigger ones, but they do give them coverage.


You're making my point for me. Yes they do often favorably rate art-house movies. But as you make clear, often a 3 star hype monster will get a full page review and the cover, while a 5 star independant gem will get a one paragraph mini review tucked away in corner without a picture. Talk about lacking the courage of their convictions!

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 178
Critical consensus..? - 15/12/2009 6:58:08 PM   
fierce-hairdo

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 14/11/2005
http://www.timeout.com/film/reviews/87977/avatar.html

interesting...just another opinion before anyone starts hurling abuse...

< Message edited by fierce-hairdo -- 15/12/2009 6:59:07 PM >

(in reply to fierce-hairdo)
Post #: 179
RE: Critical consensus..? - 15/12/2009 7:24:15 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: fierce-hairdo

http://www.timeout.com/film/reviews/87977/avatar.html

interesting...just another opinion before anyone starts hurling abuse...


Erm... and?

Whats that got to do with anything?

(in reply to fierce-hairdo)
Post #: 180
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