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RE: Superman Thread - 27/8/2009 1:39:15 PM   
Kazuya


Posts: 7953
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

Superman IV is a guilty pleasure of mine Supes battling Blonde-Mullet-Dude in shoddy fx-land, it's so bad it's good.


I love the round the world battle, where it happens to be daylight on 3 different continents at the same time Best piece of shoddy fx has to be when they fight in space and its an overhead shot, and its clearly just them standing on shiny black plastic with white bits for stars, you can even see them reflected in it, brilliance



Yeah that's an awesome shot, fucking hilarious I'm gonna have to get it on Blu if it's ever released, should make the crap effects extravaganza even more pronounced


I did a study of the film recently at my local film club and we looked specifically at the sequels and just how bad the entire 'feel' of the fourth film became, from the cast looking utterly frozen in Milton Keynes to the way way below SFX but as I say it's no great suprise of your budget is slashed weeks before release and the SFX have to be dropped from a great height !


Yeah, it really is a quite startling drop in quality, but as you say, there is not much to do if you get stabbed in the back like Reeve did, I would have loved to have seen the film made with a reasonable budget, not the equivalent of what it costs to shoot an episode of Friends. Reeve really must've felt like shit when it was released, what a pity, because he still looked good, was still more than able to handle the role.

_____________________________

"Bleed, bastard."

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 31
RE: Superman Thread - 27/8/2009 3:44:09 PM   
goldleader


Posts: 969
Joined: 30/9/2005
Some great reading here  about the production of all the films plus the development hell between Superman IV and Superman Returns.  To be honest i would have loved to have seen Superman Flyby the script by JJ Abrams and directed by JJ Abrams not McG or Ratner, it sounds like a great film.  Maybe this is what they are going to go for instead of a sequel to Returns.  I bet Warners are kicking them selfs for not letting Abrams direct his script after what he has done with MI3 and Star Trek.  Also liked the idea of a Superman and Batman film although this would only have worked before they redid Batman and wouldn't work now.

< Message edited by goldleader -- 27/8/2009 3:49:24 PM >

(in reply to Kazuya)
Post #: 32
RE: Superman Thread - 27/8/2009 3:54:10 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: goldleader

Some great reading here  about the production of all the films plus the development hell between Superman IV and Superman Returns.  To be honest i would have loved to have seen Superman Flyby the script by JJ Abrams and directed by JJ Abrams not McG or Ratner, it sounds like a great film.  Maybe this is what they are going to go for instead of a sequel to Returns.  I bet Warners are kicking them selfs for not letting Abrams direct his script after what he has done with MI3 and Star Trek.  Also liked the idea of a Superman and Batman film although this would only have worked before they redid Batman and wouldn't work now.


A Singer/Abrams collaberation would just be amzing for Returns sequel, you've got Singer's love for the character and JJ's ability to produce is proven time and time again.

(in reply to goldleader)
Post #: 33
RE: Superman Thread - 27/8/2009 4:42:09 PM   
goldleader


Posts: 969
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: goldleader

Some great reading here  about the production of all the films plus the development hell between Superman IV and Superman Returns.  To be honest i would have loved to have seen Superman Flyby the script by JJ Abrams and directed by JJ Abrams not McG or Ratner, it sounds like a great film.  Maybe this is what they are going to go for instead of a sequel to Returns.  I bet Warners are kicking them selfs for not letting Abrams direct his script after what he has done with MI3 and Star Trek.  Also liked the idea of a Superman and Batman film although this would only have worked before they redid Batman and wouldn't work now.


A Singer/Abrams collaberation would just be amzing for Returns sequel, you've got Singer's love for the character and JJ's ability to produce is proven time and time again.


Yes but i doubt that will ever happen, maybe a few years ago but now Abrams his become a bigger name and would want to do it his way.  And singer the same he would want full control.  Shame though as it could be great.

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 34
RE: Superman Thread - 27/8/2009 5:11:08 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island


Superman II (1980, Richard Lester)

Superman II has some backstage history 70% of the script had been shot by Richard Donnor who was then fired to be replaced by Richard Lester who ended up finishing the movie and fortunately managed not to make a mess of things.
This time around Superman meets his match as 3 Kryptonian villains Zod, Ursa and Non are freed from the Phantom Zone and head to Earth to take over. The movie continues the romance between Clark and Lois as he makes a sacrifice for his love only to regret the decision later on.
No Marlon Brando this time around but Susannah York is here to give Superman advice as Lara. We also see some characters from the original return for small roles here such as Ned Beatty’s Otis and Valerie Perrine as Miss Teschmacher.
Gene Hackman like in the first movie is great as Lex Luthor, even though his role in this movie isn’t that big he does end up having some of the best lines.
Two standout scenes of this movie are fight with the military in a small town and then the best scene of the whole movie, Superman fighting Zod, Ursa and Non in Metropolis.
Christopher Reeves like in the first one is brilliant but its Zod, Ursa and Non who steal the show, Terrance Stamp’s General Zod is really formidable as a stone faced killer who will stop at nothing to rule and to get revenge for his imprisonment, while Sarah Douglas is both seductive and evil as Ursa, then there’s Jack O’ Halloran as Non who doesn’t speak a word throughout the entire movie and is the muscles of the group.
There is one tiny flaw in the movie when Superman lose his powers and tries to go back and get them they never show how he accomplishes this, I haven’t seen it but I believe in the Donnor Cut it’s down to Brando who gives Superman his powers back, but with that cut out the audience really doesn’t know what’s going on, but luckily the battle in Metropolis follows straight after so there’s not much time to think.

Superman II is a brilliant movie and almost as good as the first. I don’t know what other things the Richard Donnor cut has different, but Richard Lester does a great job maintaining the feel and excitement of the 1978 movie.

Overall Score -

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 35
RE: Superman Thread - 28/8/2009 1:41:31 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island


Superman III (1983, Richard Lester)

Superman III isn’t as good as the first two movies, at the start you dont have the credits shown in the same style as the others, instead here you have a scene where lots of disasters are happening to ordinary people triggered by Pamela Stephenson.
Margot Kidder takes an extreme backseat here, she has more of a special appearance as Lois heads off to cover a story. Instead Annete O’Toole is more than perfect to fill the gap as Clark’s childhood crush Lana Lang who was only briefly shown in the 1978 original, Annete now plays Martha Kent on Smallville.
The effects are really shoddy as there are times when Superman’s wires are visible, one scene being when Superman drops down into the junkyard.
No Lex Luthor here but he is not missed because mega rich CEO of Webscoe Industries Ross Webster (Robert Vaughn) along with his sister Vera (Annie Ross) is planning to use the power of computers to rule the world, Gus Gorman (Richard Pryor) is the computer genius who they blackmail to do their dirty work.
Now lets get to the good points, most of the movie is set in Smallville which is a pleasant change, then their is the introduction of bad Superman which leads to the best scene in the entire movie, the fight between Superman and Clark Kent at the junkyard, in this movie the bad behavior is down to wierd Kryptonite that makes him bad instead of hurting him, in Smallville this is shown as being the effect of Red Kryptonite.
Superman doesn’t appear that many times and mostly it’s centered on the relationship between Clark and Lana, it may not be the best comic book movie but it is a good casual Superman movie that isnt afraid of taking risks (getting rid of two loved Superman characters, Lois and Lex) and those risks do pay off. Richard Lester again does a great job even though it’s nowhere near as good as Superman II it still is a refreshing change.

Overall Score -

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 36
RE: Superman Thread - 28/8/2009 2:12:45 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005
The film is great just for drunk Superman with stubble flicking peanuts.

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 37
RE: Superman Thread - 28/8/2009 7:05:01 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island


Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (1987, Sidney J. Furie)

Possibly this is the worst Superman film ever made. The story now concentrates on a new supervillian called Nuclear Man created by Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman returning after being absent from Superman III) from a strand of Superman’s hair which had been donated to the local museum. Nuclear Man is created to kill Superman who is busy trying to end the arms race by destroying all nuclear weapons.
There is a side story as well that the owner of the Daily Planet wants things to run differently and takes control, whilst his daughter Lacy (Mariel Hemingway) falls for Clark.
Margot Kidder resumes her role as Lois Lane and together with Christopher Reeves couldn’t have helped this movie from bombing.
Gene Hackman’s Lex Luthor just doesn’t feel the same as he did in the first two movies maybe it’s because this time he’s assisted by his idiotic nephew Lenny, who is not funny one bit.
Missing is Annette O’Toole who played Lana Lang in Superman III, and they don’t explain what happened to Lana in this movie because she was supposed to be Perry White’s assistant.
The special effects were even shoddier than the story, this time around there were more visible wires supporting the actors.
The only decent scene is where Clark keeps changing into Superman and back to himself to fool Lacy and Lois because he has a double date with both at the same time, same place, but even this scene gets tiring and annoying.
There is something mentioned about the last energy of Krypton stored in a crystal which could be used to save Superman’s life is the need arises but that’s the only part of Superman mythology there is.
Nuclear Man was supposed to be Brainiac but they couldn’t get the rights in time so they had to pull something out of their asses.
This is a shameful Superman flick that should only be watched if you’re a die hard Superman fan otherwise stay well away.

Overall Score -

(in reply to Tech_Noir)
Post #: 38
RE: Superman Thread - 28/8/2009 8:56:45 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
 MI Cruise,i think you were a bit too lenient with Superman 3 and too harsh with Superman 4 in your reviews.As deeply flawed as the fourth movie is,it at least tries to be a Superman movie and not a wacky Richard Pryor comedy with a special guest appearance from Superman.

Superman Returns is easily the worst Superman movie ever made.

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 39
RE: Superman Thread - 28/8/2009 9:17:25 PM   
The Hooded Man


Posts: 2716
Joined: 12/7/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: goldleader

quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: goldleader

Some great reading here  about the production of all the films plus the development hell between Superman IV and Superman Returns.  To be honest i would have loved to have seen Superman Flyby the script by JJ Abrams and directed by JJ Abrams not McG or Ratner, it sounds like a great film.  Maybe this is what they are going to go for instead of a sequel to Returns.  I bet Warners are kicking them selfs for not letting Abrams direct his script after what he has done with MI3 and Star Trek.  Also liked the idea of a Superman and Batman film although this would only have worked before they redid Batman and wouldn't work now.


A Singer/Abrams collaberation would just be amzing for Returns sequel, you've got Singer's love for the character and JJ's ability to produce is proven time and time again.


Yes but i doubt that will ever happen, maybe a few years ago but now Abrams his become a bigger name and would want to do it his way.  And singer the same he would want full control.  Shame though as it could be great.



Didn't Mission: Impossible 3 flop at the box office, leading to Cruise's removal as the golden boy of Paramount?

_____________________________

Counting the minutes until the over zealous mods lock this thread too.

(in reply to goldleader)
Post #: 40
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 9:09:11 AM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hooded Man

Didn't Mission: Impossible 3 flop at the box office, leading to Cruise's removal as the golden boy of Paramount?


I thought it was his off-screen antics that ended his relationship with Paramount.

(in reply to The Hooded Man)
Post #: 41
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 9:10:27 AM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005
Doesn't Superman IV have the magic kiss again?

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 42
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 12:13:44 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hooded Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: goldleader

quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: goldleader

Some great reading here  about the production of all the films plus the development hell between Superman IV and Superman Returns.  To be honest i would have loved to have seen Superman Flyby the script by JJ Abrams and directed by JJ Abrams not McG or Ratner, it sounds like a great film.  Maybe this is what they are going to go for instead of a sequel to Returns.  I bet Warners are kicking them selfs for not letting Abrams direct his script after what he has done with MI3 and Star Trek.  Also liked the idea of a Superman and Batman film although this would only have worked before they redid Batman and wouldn't work now.


A Singer/Abrams collaberation would just be amzing for Returns sequel, you've got Singer's love for the character and JJ's ability to produce is proven time and time again.


Yes but i doubt that will ever happen, maybe a few years ago but now Abrams his become a bigger name and would want to do it his way.  And singer the same he would want full control.  Shame though as it could be great.



Didn't Mission: Impossible 3 flop at the box office, leading to Cruise's removal as the golden boy of Paramount?


MI:3 was thr lowest grossing film of the series but it was far from a flop.Cruises antics at the time put off a lot of people from going to see it i reckon.Pity because its easily the best of the trilogy.

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to The Hooded Man)
Post #: 43
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 2:15:16 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

MI Cruise,i think you were a bit too lenient with Superman 3 and too harsh with Superman 4 in your reviews.As deeply flawed as the fourth movie is,it at least tries to be a Superman movie and not a wacky Richard Pryor comedy with a special guest appearance from Superman.

Superman Returns is easily the worst Superman movie ever made.


I watched this in cinemas and now I've totally forgotten the plot, but from the parts I can remember I can argue that it is not the worst Superman film.

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 44
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 4:10:28 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

MI Cruise,i think you were a bit too lenient with Superman 3 and too harsh with Superman 4 in your reviews.As deeply flawed as the fourth movie is,it at least tries to be a Superman movie and not a wacky Richard Pryor comedy with a special guest appearance from Superman.

Superman Returns is easily the worst Superman movie ever made.


Shall we just say III and IV didn't quite have the 'magic' of I and II, IMO due to the fact that Donner had long since been booted and the cast's spirit and love for the films and him, went with it.

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 45
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 4:15:12 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island
 I originally thought Margot Kidder gave up after the 2nd film and was suprised to see her in Superman III and IV.

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 46
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 4:28:34 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise

I originally thought Margot Kidder gave up after the 2nd film and was suprised to see her in Superman III and IV.


In the documentaeries that accompnay the Silver cased 'all in one' box set from 2006, she indicates that she publically raised her sadness and anger to Donner's exit to the Salklinds and that destroyed her 'place' amongst the following films, that's why she is 'written out' of three as punishment, bit like the phantom zone , but expalins why she's back for IV becuase new producers were on board by that stage.
 
Reeve she indicates was a bit 'canier' and would role with the punches, being the main man I suppose he had more to loose.

< Message edited by JIm R -- 29/8/2009 4:29:03 PM >

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 47
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 4:50:42 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island
 Did the Saklinds produce Supergirl the year after Superman III?
I still need to watch that, how much is it connected with the Superman films?

< Message edited by MI Cruise -- 29/8/2009 4:52:05 PM >

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 48
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 4:51:46 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise

Didnt the Saklinds produce Supergirl the year after Superman III?


yep, '84

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 49
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 4:57:26 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise

Did the Saklinds produce Supergirl the year after Superman III?
I still need to watch that, how much is it connected with the Superman films?


Its very much connected.Reeve was slated to cameo as Superman but dropped out at the last minute.He and Lois are referenced in the film by Lanes niece.Supergirl takes the guise of Linda Lee,supposedly Clark Kents cousin.

You do get to see Reeve as Superman in some form in the film,but its a nice moment which i wont spoil for you.The film is a bit daft but its good fun,Helen Slater is good as Supergirl,and the score by Jerry Goldsmith is excellent.

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 50
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 5:03:40 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005
Supergirl is just plain weird.

Wouldn't Superman have gone to find her if he discovered there was someone else from Krypton on Earth - and related to him!

I guess the events of the film occurred simultaneous to Superman 3, so Supes was drinking, flicking peanuts and sleeping with floozies.

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 51
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 5:07:43 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island
 In Smallville isnt it said that Clark cant sleep with Lana because he wont know what will happen, yet in Superman III he sleeps with the blond.
Even when he sleeps with Lois in Superman II he has given up his powers

< Message edited by MI Cruise -- 29/8/2009 5:08:23 PM >

(in reply to Tech_Noir)
Post #: 52
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 5:11:06 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise

In Smallville isnt it said that Clark cant sleep with Lana because he wont know what will happen, yet in Superman III he sleeps with the blond.
Even when he sleeps with Lois in Superman II he has given up his powers


See Kevin Smith for details of what would happen with super sperm

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 53
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 5:13:28 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise

In Smallville isnt it said that Clark cant sleep with Lana because he wont know what will happen, yet in Superman III he sleeps with the blond.
Even when he sleeps with Lois in Superman II he has given up his powers


See Kevin Smith for details of what would happen with super sperm




Might just order Supergirl found it on Play for £4.

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 54
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 5:19:39 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise


quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise

In Smallville isnt it said that Clark cant sleep with Lana because he wont know what will happen, yet in Superman III he sleeps with the blond.
Even when he sleeps with Lois in Superman II he has given up his powers


See Kevin Smith for details of what would happen with super sperm




Might just order Supergirl found it on Play for £4.


As a stand alone film it's not too bad, very Superman III in it's feel and is worth a punt at four quid

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 55
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 5:51:44 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise

In Smallville isnt it said that Clark cant sleep with Lana because he wont know what will happen, yet in Superman III he sleeps with the blond.
Even when he sleeps with Lois in Superman II he has given up his powers


In Superman 3 he was very drunk.

I think Tobey Maguire should have watched Superman 3 before he did Spiderman 3 - this how to be a bad good guy.

(in reply to MI Cruise)
Post #: 56
RE: Superman Thread - 29/8/2009 5:55:14 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir


quote:

ORIGINAL: MI Cruise

In Smallville isnt it said that Clark cant sleep with Lana because he wont know what will happen, yet in Superman III he sleeps with the blond.
Even when he sleeps with Lois in Superman II he has given up his powers


In Superman 3 he was very drunk.

I think Tobey Maguire should have watched Superman 3 before he did Spiderman 3 - this how to be a bad good guy.


Yeah Spiderman, stop talking about getting laid, go ahead and be like Superman and go and do it to all and sundry,

(in reply to Tech_Noir)
Post #: 57
RE: Superman Thread - 30/8/2009 12:52:05 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

Supergirl is just plain weird.

Wouldn't Superman have gone to find her if he discovered there was someone else from Krypton on Earth - and related to him!

I guess the events of the film occurred simultaneous to Superman 3, so Supes was drinking, flicking peanuts and sleeping with floozies.


Its mentioned in the film that Superman is off on a mission in space.

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to Tech_Noir)
Post #: 58
RE: Superman Thread - 30/8/2009 2:17:20 PM   
MI Cruise


Posts: 3098
Joined: 12/12/2008
From: Shutter Island
 I heard there was an animated film released last year called Doomsday does anyboy know what thats about?

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 59
RE: Superman Thread - 30/8/2009 2:30:52 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

Supergirl is just plain weird.

Wouldn't Superman have gone to find her if he discovered there was someone else from Krypton on Earth - and related to him!

I guess the events of the film occurred simultaneous to Superman 3, so Supes was drinking, flicking peanuts and sleeping with floozies.


Its mentioned in the film that Superman is off on a mission in space.


So Supergirl is tied in with Superman Returns.

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 60
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