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Camerons been here before. - 21/8/2009 2:26:38 AM   
DUO3NAN

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 20/12/2007
I remember all the negativity that surrounded Titanic. Press reporting that there was trouble on the set on a daily basis, budgets going through the roof, Cameron arguing with studio heads etc.
Even the trailer when it was released, looked very boring. Especially with a storyline that held no surprises,
Funnily that film went on to be the biggest grossing film ever, 11 oscars in the bag and a big FU from the director to the studios and the fanboys.
He's also spent many years developing what he calls "Invisible effects" through Digital Domain, previously seeing his work in True Lies and Titanic i've always been impressed by the fact that he uses the storyline to drive his scripts and not effects ala Lucas and the first 3 Star Wars episodes.
Those of you that think this is nothing more than great computer game graphics need to see this in either better resolution or point me to the games your playing.
Those of you that think you've seen this all before, lets face it you havent and probably wont again for a long time after this film is released.
From the trailer ive watched about 10 times now, the attention to detail is amazing, the 2D imagery alone is a giant leap forward in anything i've seen in CGI before and i'm guessing the 3D stereoscopic experience is totally immersive.
How do you top Titanic?
Well, I think he has, and has raised the bar in ways none of you have realised yet.
Youve just watched the trailer for the biggest movie of all time and for those of you that disagree, lets have this chat again in 18 months time when it smashes every box office record out there.

< Message edited by DUO3NAN -- 21/8/2009 2:28:40 AM >

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Post #: 181
RE: Camerons been here before. - 21/8/2009 3:53:46 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Wait, I wasn't expecting much of this but..that was disappointing even at low standards. Creatures that look to come out of Star Wars with a bastardation with Final Fantasy, it all seems done before (Star Wars),plot could be good, but it looks (stylistically) like a some children cartoon fantasy (actually Samuria Jack looked fantastic) and looks a bit ridiculous on realistic like CGI, the Na'Vi look poor, I have this sense it will be very silly, and wait, when did this become a CGI movie? I thought it was live action? 12 years for this? A film that is closer to Spirits Within than the greatness of Aliens, Terminator or The Abyss? And doesn't look as intesting as Spirirts Within did at first (the film is a gulty pleasure of mine though).

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Post #: 182
- 21/8/2009 6:38:25 AM   
ilovekaren

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 27/3/2006
im a little perplexed first of all im going to hold out my opinion cause i havent yet seen it and i wish i hadnt seen the trailer and just went to the cinema for the full experience because after that im underwhelmed i have to say that cameron was saying the film is going to be somthing we've never seen before and i dont now about you buy ive seen that flick lots of times allready. and is it just me or when the studos tell us that were going to see the most amazing cg that the more there is the faker it looks what ever happened to practical effects jack pierce would be turning over in his grave after this. is cock as big as his ego

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Post #: 183
- 21/8/2009 6:38:28 AM   
ilovekaren

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 27/3/2006
im a little perplexed first of all im going to hold out my opinion cause i havent yet seen it and i wish i hadnt seen the trailer and just went to the cinema for the full experience because after that im underwhelmed i have to say that cameron was saying the film is going to be somthing we've never seen before and i dont now about you buy ive seen that flick lots of times allready. and is it just me or when the studos tell us that were going to see the most amazing cg that the more there is the faker it looks what ever happened to practical effects jack pierce would be turning over in his grave after this. is cock as big as his ego

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Post #: 184
3D people, 3D!!!! - 21/8/2009 7:06:48 AM   
godzuki

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 27/10/2007
From: Dundee
what is the fucking deal with all you idiots out there that are saying this movie doesn't look like the revolution that jim cameron said it would be. You are missing one very simple point - the movie is intended for 3D! Now, unless i've missed the breakthrough of 3D screens on PC's and laptops, you bunch of haters are all needing to go back and watch your wayans brothers movies again and leave actual cinema to the big boys. Go back and watch this trailer and try and visualise this film popping out of all four corners of the screen and then tell me that this film will be "mediocre". Then again you're all probably too stupid to think outside the box or, more than likely, you haven't seen a 3D feature yet in which case I forgive you. I for one truly, utterly and unequivocally cannot wait to see this and for the people who are intent on shooting this movie down in flames before you've even seen what it is meant to look like then i'll see you while you wait to see alvin and the chipmunks 2. Bunch of fucking cretinous fuckfaces!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! You people make me want to swear!!!!!!!

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Post #: 185
Oh no, another sci-fi romance. - 21/8/2009 7:33:31 AM   
Chris3759

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 27/1/2008
From: Chelmsford
Another love story of TITANIC proportions. This is gonna suck.
3D it may be, but if your gonna poke a stick in my face I want it to be worth it, this looks like a rehash of all the action/sci-fi films of recent years, even down to the bluish tint on the film. This will probably appeal to Marvel/Image/Dark Horse/IDW comic readers who seem to get excited by anything that leads to the use of all of the above and the inclusion of pseudo-religeous imagery, the exact things that piss me off in the Star Wars and LOTR Films. Knock yourselves out.

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Post #: 186
Meh - 21/8/2009 9:06:43 AM   
waltham1979


Posts: 1140
Joined: 18/3/2008
From: San-Diago, which is German for 'Whales virgina'...
I know in general I am not a fan of Cameron but whilst I tried to watch the trailer with an open mind; I cannot believe how under whealming that trailer is. I know its meant to be in 3D but is that CGI finished? I was expecting to see it rendered so you can't tell the difference between whats real and whats not BUT the whole thing just looks a George Lucas film...oh dear...

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Post #: 187
Apprehensive - 21/8/2009 9:08:46 AM   
pgmark

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 19/1/2008
I remain eager to see the film and even if the film was not 3D and remained a 'normal' 2D experience I would still be excited as you have to put a lot of faith in James Cameron. I do agree with the comments about the CG not looking great. It looks good but I can't help but feel that when you see the Na'vi running with the fire lighting half the face it looks unfinished. Even the worry lines on Sam Worthington's Na'vi above look stuck on. I also though James Cameron was into 3D for real life. That is what I was most excited about. It still remains a predominantly CG (animated) 3D movie. That said I am sure once the lights go down none of this will matter. It's got my bum on the seat already.

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Post #: 188
RE: 3D people, 3D!!!! - 21/8/2009 9:15:07 AM   
waltham1979


Posts: 1140
Joined: 18/3/2008
From: San-Diago, which is German for 'Whales virgina'...
quote:

ORIGINAL: godzuki

what is the fucking deal with all you idiots out there that are saying this movie doesn't look like the revolution that jim cameron said it would be. You are missing one very simple point - the movie is intended for 3D! Now, unless i've missed the breakthrough of 3D screens on PC's and laptops, you bunch of haters are all needing to go back and watch your wayans brothers movies again and leave actual cinema to the big boys. Go back and watch this trailer and try and visualise this film popping out of all four corners of the screen and then tell me that this film will be "mediocre". Then again you're all probably too stupid to think outside the box or, more than likely, you haven't seen a 3D feature yet in which case I forgive you. I for one truly, utterly and unequivocally cannot wait to see this and for the people who are intent on shooting this movie down in flames before you've even seen what it is meant to look like then i'll see you while you wait to see alvin and the chipmunks 2. Bunch of fucking cretinous fuckfaces!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! You people make me want to swear!!!!!!!


Ahh nothing like some child-like Newbie calling everyone fuck faces on a Friday morning is there?!??!?

I think everyone is thinking outside of the box and is disappointed that the visuals are not what we thought they were going to be. It seems the selling point of this is 3D so it turns out to be just a gimmick after all. It looks to me (and a whole lotta other people as well) that the CGI is wildly underwhealming at this point (unless it isn't finished?). What we are expecting was this film will break new realms not just because it is in 3D. Never mind that it looks like The Phantom Menace...colour me un-impressed (for now!)

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Post #: 189
Forget this, Go watch the wolfman trailer - 21/8/2009 9:17:25 AM   
JurgenKlinsmann

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 23/11/2005
Looks like a rushed release to get 'something' out there (hopefully).

Go watch the wolfman trailer instead, it looks like tonnes of fun!

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Post #: 190
Somewhat disappointed.... - 21/8/2009 9:23:24 AM   
rbostock

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 25/5/2006
From: Shanghai
I have to admit to being somewhat disappointed. I agree with some of the comments about the physics looking wrong. The characters float like on a video game, and the detail in the environments lacks the realism that we expected to see. Having said that, I have faith that the 3D IMAX experience will be second to none, and that the characters will be real life as always with a James Cameron movie. This film was never meant to watched on a 15" LCD screen, which begs the question - why?!?

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Post #: 191
RE: Forget this, Go watch the wolfman trailer - 21/8/2009 9:23:46 AM   
CORLEONE

 

Posts: 4677
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Nakatomi Plaza
And enough of the 3D bumming. Anything would look good in 3D IMAX. hopefully Cameron hasn't forgot that it's the story and script that make a film. With his track record of Terminator and Aliens I'm still hopeful he will deliver.

< Message edited by CORLEONE -- 21/8/2009 9:24:19 AM >


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Post #: 192
RE: 3D people, 3D!!!! - 21/8/2009 9:25:20 AM   
pgmark

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 19/1/2008
here here

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Post #: 193
So after all the hype and fuss... - 21/8/2009 9:31:28 AM   
Ramirez

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 21/11/2005
He's remade the Star Wars prequels.

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Post #: 194
RE: 3D people, 3D!!!! - 21/8/2009 9:32:56 AM   
Evil_Monkey25

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 27/10/2007
I appreciate comments from people screaming that the Na'vi look 'real' (they don't, but that's beside the point) but for me, the problem came within the first few seconds of the trailer - when Sam Worthington's character wheels out of the back of the ship with the face mask on... it looks like a computer game! Fair enough not making the big gangly blue creatures look 'real', but at least try to make the Humans look it! There's guys wandering round in the background of that scene who wouldn't be out of place in Final Fantasy...

And to those of you who are lauding this film as one that's going to break box office records and win oscars galore, tell me when did such plaudits necessarily make a film any good.  Titantic won it all, but its still a slow, lumbering Celine Dion music video...

Stop trying to reinvent films, Cameron, and go back to making something that matters to people.  Since he scored success and adulation for the groundbreaking effects in Abyss and T2 (and they were truly groundbreaking for the time) he seems to believe himself to be the lord and master of all things CGI... sorry Jim, but WETA are way ahead of you...

Don't think anyone's saying it looks bad, though, so can the fanboys take a deep breath and count to ten? It looks good, we know, it just doesn't look how Cameron has professed it to (photorealistic, unable to tell CGI from real).

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Post #: 195
Meh here too... - 21/8/2009 9:37:40 AM   
Gaschau

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 17/1/2009
A tad disappointing I have to say. Looks too clean and sterile... Yeah like a computer game. A bad one... But expecting to be dazzled in 3D. It is after all Cameron we have to do with... Crossing them fingers...

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Post #: 196
RE: Avatar Trailer Hits - 21/8/2009 9:39:10 AM   
Kazuya


Posts: 7978
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
Predictably this thread is already filled with comments from people who want nothing more than the chance to say how shit they think this film look, which is pretty funny when you think about it, since most of those people will probably end up downloading some pirate version, watching it on their computer, complimenting themselves that they sure had pegged Avatar for what it was, a director returning with a new film, a super-hyped film, but a shit film. I don't really give a fuck, I just think it's funny. Obviously I'm not saying that everyone who posts derogatory comments about the trailer is one of the above mentioned douchebags, the film is definitely not going to be for everyone. The lame Star Wars prequels comparisons are so obvious it makes my skin crawl, the moaning internet fucknut so predictable it hurts. As for me, well I liked the trailer very much, as such I don't think any trailer could give the true idea of what the experience is gonna be like, but it was a good indication of what to hope for. I liked that there was no score blaring over the glimpses, the world looks lush and appealing and I gotta say I loved the look of the Navi themselves. Still looking forward to this one immensely.
Oh, and props to Cameron for putting Stephen Lang in this film.


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Post #: 197
Somewhat disappointed.... - 21/8/2009 9:42:14 AM   
rbostock

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 25/5/2006
From: Shanghai
I have to admit to being somewhat disappointed. I agree with some of the comments about the physics looking wrong. The characters float like on a video game, and the detail in the environments lacks the realism that we expected to see. Having said that, I have faith that the 3D IMAX experience will be second to none, and that the characters will be real life as always with a James Cameron movie. This film was never meant to watched on a 15" LCD screen, which begs the question - why?!?

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Post #: 198
I don't get some of you people - 21/8/2009 9:42:55 AM   
icelandicwolf


Posts: 531
Joined: 30/12/2005
From: UK
Ok had a quick browse of the comments on this trailer and all I can say is WOW you lot need to get out more and take films less seriously.
People saying the physics look wrong - jeez it's a sci-fi/fantasy movie set on another world, you don't know what the laws of physics are on that world at all do you....or are you telling us you have been there. People also saying it's a star wars prequel rip-off really how is that? I don't see any lightsabers, I see a forest, maybe that's your tiny little link there - it's set in a forest - excellent deduction work people.
You are all grabbing at straws just to hate it, really that is pathetic in my opinon. The trailer looks awesome, not like a bad computer game at all, and believe me I have played some bad computer games - You say you want your cgi to be photo-realistic well guess what people it's a film that features Blue Humanoid figures they ain't gonna be photo bleedin realistic are they, besides if you think you can do better go apply to a major effects company and quit moaning about it.
I for one am psyched about this movie, think it looks awesome.

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Post #: 199
RE: 3D people, 3D!!!! - 21/8/2009 10:29:02 AM   
estoban


Posts: 43
Joined: 18/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: waltham1979

quote:

ORIGINAL: godzuki

what is the fucking deal with all you idiots out there that are saying this movie doesn't look like the revolution that jim cameron said it would be. You are missing one very simple point - the movie is intended for 3D! Now, unless i've missed the breakthrough of 3D screens on PC's and laptops, you bunch of haters are all needing to go back and watch your wayans brothers movies again and leave actual cinema to the big boys. Go back and watch this trailer and try and visualise this film popping out of all four corners of the screen and then tell me that this film will be "mediocre". Then again you're all probably too stupid to think outside the box or, more than likely, you haven't seen a 3D feature yet in which case I forgive you. I for one truly, utterly and unequivocally cannot wait to see this and for the people who are intent on shooting this movie down in flames before you've even seen what it is meant to look like then i'll see you while you wait to see alvin and the chipmunks 2. Bunch of fucking cretinous fuckfaces!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! You people make me want to swear!!!!!!!


Ahh nothing like some child-like Newbie calling everyone fuck faces on a Friday morning is there?!??!?

I think everyone is thinking outside of the box and is disappointed that the visuals are not what we thought they were going to be. It seems the selling point of this is 3D so it turns out to be just a gimmick after all. It looks to me (and a whole lotta other people as well) that the CGI is wildly underwhealming at this point (unless it isn't finished?). What we are expecting was this film will break new realms not just because it is in 3D. Never mind that it looks like The Phantom Menace...colour me un-impressed (for now!)


I've not posted for a LONG Time but on hearing about Avatar, and seeing the tralier - the initial though is WOW - this film  is going to rock.
Then on this forum all I see is 'shit wank piss' what aload of bollocks !!.

Yes people, it is supposed to be best viewed as they say in 3d, also the trailer, that's what is was, is only 2 munites and 6 seconds, of a supposed film length 3 hours + so I'd think they might have missed out a few 'important' bits.

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Post #: 200
oh my - 21/8/2009 10:49:28 AM   
DeadCell79

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 8/6/2006
From: london
oh my this does look very good indeed. i new Avatar was being made but i decided not to seek any news of it till a trailer.

and boy im starting to get exceited now

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Post #: 201
RE: 3D people, 3D!!!! - 21/8/2009 11:01:47 AM   
waltham1979


Posts: 1140
Joined: 18/3/2008
From: San-Diago, which is German for 'Whales virgina'...
quote:

ORIGINAL: estoban

quote:

ORIGINAL: waltham1979

quote:

ORIGINAL: godzuki

what is the fucking deal with all you idiots out there that are saying this movie doesn't look like the revolution that jim cameron said it would be. You are missing one very simple point - the movie is intended for 3D! Now, unless i've missed the breakthrough of 3D screens on PC's and laptops, you bunch of haters are all needing to go back and watch your wayans brothers movies again and leave actual cinema to the big boys. Go back and watch this trailer and try and visualise this film popping out of all four corners of the screen and then tell me that this film will be "mediocre". Then again you're all probably too stupid to think outside the box or, more than likely, you haven't seen a 3D feature yet in which case I forgive you. I for one truly, utterly and unequivocally cannot wait to see this and for the people who are intent on shooting this movie down in flames before you've even seen what it is meant to look like then i'll see you while you wait to see alvin and the chipmunks 2. Bunch of fucking cretinous fuckfaces!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! You people make me want to swear!!!!!!!


Ahh nothing like some child-like Newbie calling everyone fuck faces on a Friday morning is there?!??!?

I think everyone is thinking outside of the box and is disappointed that the visuals are not what we thought they were going to be. It seems the selling point of this is 3D so it turns out to be just a gimmick after all. It looks to me (and a whole lotta other people as well) that the CGI is wildly underwhealming at this point (unless it isn't finished?). What we are expecting was this film will break new realms not just because it is in 3D. Never mind that it looks like The Phantom Menace...colour me un-impressed (for now!)


I've not posted for a LONG Time but on hearing about Avatar, and seeing the tralier - the initial though is WOW - this film  is going to rock.
Then on this forum all I see is 'shit wank piss' what aload of bollocks !!.

Yes people, it is supposed to be best viewed as they say in 3d, also the trailer, that's what is was, is only 2 munites and 6 seconds, of a supposed film length 3 hours + so I'd think they might have missed out a few 'important' bits.


No one is commenting about the film, this is a thread about what people thought about the trailer for the film and I agree with the general consensus that it is a bit of a let down. Yes I am sure it might be better in 3D, but there are only a handfull of places round the UK that you are going to be able to watch it in this format (I saw last night that each cinema that wants to show it is going to have to spend 80,000 odd to upgrade??!!).

I don't like the trailer. To me it looks like a cartoon and for CGI that was meant to be groundbreaking I am not that impressed. I just hope, like I said before, that the 3D is not just some gimmick and the story itself is good with a tight script and great acting (although with Rodriguez in it and I thought Worthington was very wooden in T4 I am not holding out much hope).

I was hoping for something more like Aliens and at the moment I am more impressed with the look of Sector 9 than this.

Every day people are on these forums slagging off films like Terminator Salvation and Transformers and 2012 for just being special effect films and at the moment I am wondering what the difference is. Other than this being made by Cameron BUT like you said its only a trailer so I will have to wait till the film comes out.

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Post #: 202
It has it's qualities - 21/8/2009 11:11:54 AM   
MadMikeOT

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 21/8/2009
The mood is terse, broody and very surreal, with the music and the fact that the trailer is almost wordless greatly contribute to this. It is almost like a kind of 'The Shining' meets '2001'/ But it's let down by the special effects. I have no doubt, however, that the same man who brought us 'The Terminator' and 'Aliens' couldn;t surely let us down. Could he?

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Post #: 203
It will have it's qualities - 21/8/2009 11:13:40 AM   
MadMikeOT

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 21/8/2009
And we are overlooking the fact also that it has to be in 3-D to be fully appreciated. We can only offer our verdicts when the film is released.

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Post #: 204
not surprised - 21/8/2009 11:22:50 AM   
tobywan

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 14/3/2009
not surprised this movie was always gonna be a vanity project. How else could the king of the world follow up the worlds biggest film? Shame, but absolute power etc...im not interested in technology if it surplants story and spectacle. This trailer betrays Cameron; he used to be a master of combining great 'necessary' effects and amazing story telling, im afraid this just looks like a cynical attempt to make gamers buy into the world that they already occupy. Wheres the grit? wheres the tension? shame, but not unexpected for me...having said that, i will go see it...how could I not? I suspect, in 3D it will be something else...

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Post #: 205
RE: not surprised - 21/8/2009 12:32:27 PM   
Poulster

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 3/7/2008
True, it does look like a videogame or a european sci-fi comic. I doubt 3D will save it, but I'm going to give it a chance, since I've been missing Cameron in the cinemas...

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Post #: 206
RE: Avatar Trailer Hits - 21/8/2009 12:37:15 PM   
Ramirez

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 21/11/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

Predictably this thread is already filled with comments from people who want nothing more than the chance to say how shit they think this film look, which is pretty funny when you think about it, since most of those people will probably end up downloading some pirate version, watching it on their computer, complimenting themselves that they sure had pegged Avatar for what it was, a director returning with a new film, a super-hyped film, but a shit film. I don't really give a fuck, I just think it's funny. Obviously I'm not saying that everyone who posts derogatory comments about the trailer is one of the above mentioned douchebags, the film is definitely not going to be for everyone. The lame Star Wars prequels comparisons are so obvious it makes my skin crawl, the moaning internet fucknut so predictable it hurts. As for me, well I liked the trailer very much, as such I don't think any trailer could give the true idea of what the experience is gonna be like, but it was a good indication of what to hope for. I liked that there was no score blaring over the glimpses, the world looks lush and appealing and I gotta say I loved the look of the Navi themselves. Still looking forward to this one immensely.
Oh, and props to Cameron for putting Stephen Lang in this film.



I don't want any film I see to be shit. Never downloaded a pirate film. Have a mind of my own.
This film may be entertaining, it might be great but Cameron himself has said it will be like nothing we've seen before. On this evidence it isn't - it looks, like the wookie battle in Sith.

Please don't cry.

(in reply to Kazuya)
Post #: 207
RE: Avatar Trailer Hits - 21/8/2009 12:43:33 PM   
Kazuya


Posts: 7978
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramirez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

Predictably this thread is already filled with comments from people who want nothing more than the chance to say how shit they think this film look, which is pretty funny when you think about it, since most of those people will probably end up downloading some pirate version, watching it on their computer, complimenting themselves that they sure had pegged Avatar for what it was, a director returning with a new film, a super-hyped film, but a shit film. I don't really give a fuck, I just think it's funny. Obviously I'm not saying that everyone who posts derogatory comments about the trailer is one of the above mentioned douchebags, the film is definitely not going to be for everyone. The lame Star Wars prequels comparisons are so obvious it makes my skin crawl, the moaning internet fucknut so predictable it hurts. As for me, well I liked the trailer very much, as such I don't think any trailer could give the true idea of what the experience is gonna be like, but it was a good indication of what to hope for. I liked that there was no score blaring over the glimpses, the world looks lush and appealing and I gotta say I loved the look of the Navi themselves. Still looking forward to this one immensely.
Oh, and props to Cameron for putting Stephen Lang in this film.



I don't want any film I see to be shit. Never downloaded a pirate film. Have a mind of my own.
This film may be entertaining, it might be great but Cameron himself has said it will be like nothing we've seen before. On this evidence it isn't - it looks, like the wookie battle in Sith.

Please don't cry.


Like I said in my initial post, obviously not everyone who dislikes the trailer is a downloading, moaning moron.
As for you comparing it to the SW prequels, I really couldn't give a fuck.


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Post #: 208
RE: Avatar Trailer Hits - 21/8/2009 12:45:55 PM   
broonie

 

Posts: 866
Joined: 30/9/2005
I really want this film to be something special. However, to be fully appreciated, it will have to be viewed on a 3-D screen as 2-D does it no justice at all. On 2-D it looks no better than any other CG film.

As for the film itself, i'm sure Cameron will still give us something great.


_____________________________

Do you want to run this ship?
Yes!
Well,...you cant!

(in reply to Ramirez)
Post #: 209
ooo.... kay.... - 21/8/2009 12:54:43 PM   
drawmyfoot


Posts: 93
Joined: 9/12/2005
From: T to tha mutha-friggin' Q Homeboy!!!
Dire horses? Unobtanium?!? Oh dear. After Titanic cameron had a lot to prove, to me at least, and on the strength of these clangers I'm not hopeful. Pretty pictures just aren't enough.

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 210
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