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RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 16/7/2009 8:58:35 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 333
Joined: 2/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: kenada_woo

Also, clear a question up for me....If film scratches and poor film stocks can be touched up and re-digitised...how come grain cannot be removed also and still be HD?  Hit me with some techno-babble people.  Key examples - Transformers has grainy night scenes, Dark Knight and Casino Royale are practically grain free.  



It can be removed digitally, but a lot of people dont like the way it looks. I think it was Casablanca where it caused a bit of an outcry. The thing is, film has grain, if you remove it youre removing a big part of the image.


The worst one was Citizen Kane. The rain was erased because the computer thought it was random noise, and it had been told that random noise is grain.

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Post #: 31
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 11:50:38 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 1899
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

with so many vanillas out there i'd trust 2nd hand, cash convertors to get some titles, upscale ur dvds on blu ray and wait til price comes down for new titles nxt year.


oops, not cash convertors but places in london like game station, which does blu rays for £10-15.

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Post #: 32
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 12:13:10 PM   
kenada_woo


Posts: 1385
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

quote:

ORIGINAL: kenada_woo

I never said it would add the grain, as mentioned its from the source.  But that's not the point.  The point is, is there a need to buy films like Die Hard for eg again for whatever price say £8 when the DVD of it is £3 with more extras?  That's what the point of the thread is about.

Yes it will faithfully reproduce the film stock picture,grain and all (although I kinda of doubt the original print stock was as bad) - so in turn does that makes it a plus to re-buy or buy that film when the DVD is cheaper and very much watchable?

So you're saying that Im not watching my Blu Rays properly?  I'm guessing alot of people are too.

Also, clear a question up for me....If film scratches and poor film stocks can be touched up and re-digitised...how come grain cannot be removed also and still be HD?  Hit me with some techno-babble people.  Key examples - Transformers has grainy night scenes, Dark Knight and Casino Royale are practically grain free.  



Whether it is worth rebuying any film on Blu ray depends on the same factors we've had to consider since they started to double dip us on DVD. It depends on whether the upgrade is worth the price asked. Die Hard is a great film and the £4 I paid for the Blu ray was worth it to me. But as we have established different people are looking for different things in what they consider a quality presentation.



Which is the main point I made before about weighting up the price.  I've a fair few copies of T2 but I saw it for £5 on bluray so snapped it up.  But sometimes those cheeky deals are few and far between unless you look around.

Usually double dipping on DVD's tend to be down to super-douper special editions over vanilla discs, upgrading from VHS.  Bluray seems to be going down that road again (vanilla discs, special editions coming later on).  Which is very naughty IMO being that BD live is a major thing I'm interested in that could almost cut that stuff out altogether.

Quick question - are you actually re-buying all your DVD's on Bluray?     


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Post #: 33
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 12:30:59 PM   
Gram123


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kenada_woo
The point is, is there a need to buy films like Die Hard for eg again for whatever price say £8 when the DVD of it is £3 with more extras?


So... some BDs have fewer extras than the DVDs??? Surely this must be an unusual case?
I'm not bothered about Die Hard specifically, but I am a little bothered if some extras are omitted from BD releases of other films - it means I'm still going to have to spend a fair bit of time comparing versions before choosing the best option...

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Post #: 34
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 12:35:43 PM   
theoriginalcynic


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I've said it before on other threads and I'll say it again Blu-ray isn't expensive if you know where to look.  On Amazon's 3 for 2 you can buy three Blu-rays for £16 now.  £5+ isn't expensive.  You can often find Blu-rays that are cheaper then the DVD (even some new releases) Old sets I bought the Mummy trilogy for £19, Batman all 4 for £25 and so on...

Obviously I wouldn't pay full price in HMV or other street shops.  This is a rip off but online they're good value.  New releases are expensive but so are new DVD releases.  And Blu-ray is taking off now - look at the films scheduled for release.  Wizard of Oz, Gone with the wind, The Deer Hunter, Near Dark... many more classics are coming out.  Have a look at the upcoming releases...  

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Post #: 35
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 12:37:29 PM   
theoriginalcynic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gram123

quote:

ORIGINAL: kenada_woo
The point is, is there a need to buy films like Die Hard for eg again for whatever price say £8 when the DVD of it is £3 with more extras?


So... some BDs have fewer extras than the DVDs??? Surely this must be an unusual case?
I'm not bothered about Die Hard specifically, but I am a little bothered if some extras are omitted from BD releases of other films - it means I'm still going to have to spend a fair bit of time comparing versions before choosing the best option...


This happens alot.  Esp Disney releases.  My lost season 4 says exclusive to Blu-ray and discs like Pinochio, Sleeping Beauty are the same...

As for the grain question I HATE grain on films.  I returned fargo because it looked horrible in HD.  My Rocky disc is the same but not all the way through so I kept that one.  It looks like someone turned the telly on with no signal.  The white speckles on the black background... who wants to watch that? From my reviews on Amazon it seems like most people agree with me... 

< Message edited by theoriginalcynic -- 17/7/2009 12:42:17 PM >

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Post #: 36
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 1:12:38 PM   
Dpp1978


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Joined: 2/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: kenada_woo


Quick question - are you actually re-buying all your DVD's on Bluray?     



No. But I don't buy many films these days. Any film I really like I'll probably upgrade at some point, but it isn't a priority.

Nor would I advocate it as a course of action. The only films I have actually upgraded are Close Encounters and Blade Runner. I somehow managed to never get Die Hard on DVD. Ones I will upgrade include Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, pretty much any Disney or Pixar film, The Indy Trilogy and Star Wars movies.

Most of these I've upgraded on DVD as well. Some of them I have on multiple formats.

I don't see myself buying many more DVDs unless you can't get the film on Blu and there is no release date on the horizon.

In fact I think your approach is entirely sensible, it's just our criteria for assessing whether an upgrade is worthwhile are different.  I usually don't worry about extras unless it is a film I am particularly interested in, and my idea of a good transfer seems to be vastly different to many here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

Wizard of Oz, Gone with the wind, The Deer Hunter, Near Dark... many more classics are coming out.  Have a look at the upcoming releases...  



If you hate grain as much as you claim you are likely to loathe The Deer Hunter and Near Dark unless they turn the grain reduction up to max.


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Post #: 37
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 1:15:38 PM   
adambatman82


Posts: 5452
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Leeds
 Interesting figures revealed today show Blu-Ray figures on the up. -

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6671437.html?desc=topstory

What I found most interesting though is the rise of rentals. I think that rentals will be the first to see an undertaking of downloading as opposed to actual physical copies (as witnessed by the likes of Netflix instant in the States), so while this may look positive now, on the whole I think that peoples attitudes towards owning physical media might be at a cruxes point. Its definitely interesting, and might just be a reaction to the recession, but I guess we'll see.

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Post #: 38
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 1:20:20 PM   
adambatman82


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From: Leeds
 A disdain for grain apparently is a normal reaction for an audience that is used to watching reality television. I love grain myself, its part of the aesthetics of cinema. I've just ordered the book Cinephilia in the age of digital reproduction, which will no doubt touch on this subject, as it seems to be a pretty major issue for a vast portion of the audience.

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Post #: 39
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 2:44:38 PM   
kenada_woo


Posts: 1385
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Interesting figures revealed today show Blu-Ray figures on the up. -

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6671437.html?desc=topstory

What I found most interesting though is the rise of rentals. I think that rentals will be the first to see an undertaking of downloading as opposed to actual physical copies (as witnessed by the likes of Netflix instant in the States), so while this may look positive now, on the whole I think that peoples attitudes towards owning physical media might be at a cruxes point. Its definitely interesting, and might just be a reaction to the recession, but I guess we'll see.


Most definatley.  I've signed up to LoveFilm and all I do is rent BluRay.  But for buying I just follow what's I think is the best deal at the end of the day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gram123

quote:

ORIGINAL: kenada_woo
The point is, is there a need to buy films like Die Hard for eg again for whatever price say £8 when the DVD of it is £3 with more extras?


So... some BDs have fewer extras than the DVDs??? Surely this must be an unusual case?
I'm not bothered about Die Hard specifically, but I am a little bothered if some extras are omitted from BD releases of other films - it means I'm still going to have to spend a fair bit of time comparing versions before choosing the best option...
 

There's are lot of plain vanilla BD's of films that have special edition DVD's and there's an odd exception that have BD exclusive content only.  Just look around and see what you fancy really.

BD films are HD versions of the films, no arguments over that.  For me, while the image is better than DVD - DVD still aint a dog-shit medium to ransack my back catalogue to upgrade to BluRay.  For me its a luxury format ideal for new cinema...but if I fancy a BD bargin I'd pick it up.  That's my view on it.
   



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Post #: 40
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 17/7/2009 8:10:04 PM   
surveyofsociety


Posts: 1492
Joined: 17/10/2006
From: Ireland
 No in my opinion they're not worth it because a blueray release requires the studio/distributor to give  a damn and to put money and effort into the video and audio transfers plus the extras. They said the same thing with DVD and there's been loads of rubbish or inferior region 2 releases (To kill a MockingBird, Vertigo)  on DVD. Why trust them to deliver on blueray ?  Sure DVD's great and there's some solid releases but they fudged it .

Look at Adam there, buys a tonne of Criterion DVDs and what has the region2 market for him ? He wants what the Criterion can offer and region 2 hasn't filled that gap

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Post #: 41
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 19/7/2009 12:01:39 PM   
adambatman82


Posts: 5452
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From: Leeds
 I ended up buying the Scorsese restoration of The Red Shoes on Blu-Ray today. I already have the criterion dvd, so figured it was worth a shot on blu.

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Post #: 42
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 19/7/2009 2:07:22 PM   
Timon


Posts: 11229
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From: Bristol
 Like Gram, I don't like the fact that BD releases of the likes of Master and Commander and Kingdom of Heaven come devoid of extras. Want is the point of upgrading if the disc comes with fuck all? It's like the King Kong/LOTR controversy? Why would I want to 'upgrade' to the mere theatrical releases when I have my shiny DCs on SD?

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Post #: 43
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 19/7/2009 9:34:53 PM   
hmtb

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 12/7/2009
Extras aren't a bg issue for me. Generally, I find picture quality and sound more important than added content. I would still buy the version with the most extras for completion's sake, but in my experience of buying dvds for about 10 years, i only watched them at the beginning, and rarely all the way through. Now I don't even look at them.

Extras are one thing, but the version of a film is quite another.

I bought Cinema Paradiso: the director's cut on dvd a while ago, before I knew it was coming out on blu ray, and was slightly annoyed I didn't wait for the blu ray version. I've since realised that the blu ray release is only the 2 hour theatrical cut - I'm glad I didn't wait.

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Post #: 44
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 20/7/2009 1:23:42 PM   
coolstar

 

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/1/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Like Gram, I don't like the fact that BD releases of the likes of Master and Commander and Kingdom of Heaven come devoid of extras. Want is the point of upgrading if the disc comes with fuck all? It's like the King Kong/LOTR controversy? Why would I want to 'upgrade' to the mere theatrical releases when I have my shiny DCs on SD?


Well King Kong has both cuts available on blu ray and you can get The DC of Kingdom of Heaven on blu ray too all on one disk !!

If thats not enough you can get three cuts on T2 plus extres on one disk too .



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Post #: 45
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 20/7/2009 2:20:40 PM   
surveyofsociety


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From: Ireland
 Coolstar, you should be able to get all three cuts of Terminator 2 on one DVD through seamless branching!!

But no, we got screwed with the original lackluster DVD release which had recycled Laserdisc material and only the Special Edition of the film and then the release after that by Optimum I think it is just has the SE again!

Oh and will there be a proper King Kong release any time soon ?

 

http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/782019

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Post #: 46
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 22/7/2009 7:22:40 PM   
coolstar

 

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Movies that are shown in the cinema are not in HD right??  Putting them on blu ray well not give you the experance you had when you first watched the movie on the big screen.

so whats the point of blu ray ?

< Message edited by coolstar -- 22/7/2009 7:23:09 PM >

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Post #: 47
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 22/7/2009 7:35:24 PM   
krudler


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quote:

ORIGINAL: coolstar

Movies that are shown in the cinema are not in HD right??  Putting them on blu ray well not give you the experance you had when you first watched the movie on the big screen.

so whats the point of blu ray ?


Cinema is way,way more "HD" than blu-ray, its played at a massively higher resolution due to the screen size, or so my understanding is

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Post #: 48
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 22/7/2009 7:39:17 PM   
adambatman82


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quote:

ORIGINAL: coolstar

Movies that are shown in the cinema are not in HD right??  Putting them on blu ray well not give you the experance you had when you first watched the movie on the big screen.

so whats the point of blu ray ?


Are you a wordsearch? Or a haiku?

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Post #: 49
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 22/7/2009 8:04:54 PM   
coolstar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

quote:

ORIGINAL: coolstar

Movies that are shown in the cinema are not in HD right??  Putting them on blu ray well not give you the experance you had when you first watched the movie on the big screen.

so whats the point of blu ray ?


Cinema is way,way more "HD" than blu-ray, its played at a massively higher resolution due to the screen size, or so my understanding is


Now i understand  thanks

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RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 30/7/2009 8:17:45 PM   
hmtb

 

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I saw an advert in the paper this morning advertising 2x1 on blu rays.
This got me a little excited since there were a couple of films I wanted to buy. I popped in to the store in question and there they were.

Unfortuneately, films which previously cost in the range of £14 - £20 prior to this special offer now cost £30.
It wasn't as good a deal as I thought it would be, and I left without a purchase.
D'oh!

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Post #: 51
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 30/7/2009 9:29:06 PM   
UTB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: coolstar

Movies that are shown in the cinema are not in HD right??  Putting them on blu ray well not give you the experance you had when you first watched the movie on the big screen.

so whats the point of blu ray ?


Your logic is flawless. Just flawless.


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Post #: 52
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 30/7/2009 11:48:07 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 333
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quote:

ORIGINAL: coolstar

Movies that are shown in the cinema are not in HD right??  Putting them on blu ray well not give you the experance you had when you first watched the movie on the big screen.

so whats the point of blu ray ?


The experience at the cinema is about the scale of the presentation as much as it is about the quality of the image. It is therefore very hard to recreate at home. Unless you spend a lot of money on a large scale projection system you aren't going to get the "big screen experience."

Home cinema is about getting as close to the experience as we can within our means. Blu ray allows us a source which is closer to that used in the cinema.

To say that is pointless as it will not duplicate the experience of a cinematic showing can be expanded to all home video media. It would make DVD even more pointless as it is further away from the theatrical experience. We might as well have stuck with VHS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

Cinema is way,way more "HD" than blu-ray, its played at a massively higher resolution due to the screen size, or so my understanding is


Film does not have a fixed resolution, but there is a limit to the amount of detail any given film stock paired with any given lens will be able to record. This is measured by filming a standard resolution test pattern and then looking at it with a microscope.

The test pattern has pairs of lines of varying widths which are counted. The number of fully resolved pairs of lines in a millimeter of negative gives the maximum resolution of that particular film and lens combination. This can be multiplied by the size of the exposed area of the negative to calculate the resolution (in what is roughly equivalent to pixel terms) of the entire frame. This may change from scene to scene (even from shot to shot) within the film as conditions change.

This means a film shot using a good film stock with good lenses under good conditions, using a format with a suitably large area of film exposed will have more resolvable detail than Blu ray. As we have seen with the discussions about mediocre transfers this is not always the case. There are films where the combination of film stock, lens, lighting and processing means the film negative contains a level of resolvable detail which can be adequately captured at a resolution below 1080p.

I recently saw a 70mm print shown at a really good screen and it put Blu ray to shame. Same thing with the Imax portions of The Dark Knight. Film can have potentially far more detail than Blu ray can have a hope of reproducing.

But it can all be wasted by poor prints, bad projectors, sub standard cinema screens etc. And that is before starting to look at digital film making. Most digital productions are captured, manipulated and projected at a resolution roughly the same as 1080p. This will change as the technology matures, but for now almost all digital screens are not really any higher resolution than ours at home; just a lot bigger.


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Post #: 53
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 31/7/2009 12:44:01 AM   
Nostromo.


Posts: 109
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

quote:

ORIGINAL: coolstar

Movies that are shown in the cinema are not in HD right??  Putting them on blu ray well not give you the experance you had when you first watched the movie on the big screen.

so whats the point of blu ray ?


Your logic is flawless. Just flawless.



I haven't been on the forums long but Coolstar you do make me giggle with your forever swinging back and forth between pro and neg Blu. I have come to the conclusion you are a metaphysical entity representing the struggle in all of us who strive to find the definitve answer as to whether Blu is right or wrong.


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Post #: 54
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 31/7/2009 11:44:53 PM   
surveyofsociety


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 Saw a blueray player in one of them cheap-ass Scandanavian shops there a few days ago. €150 I think it was. Pretty surprised actually it was that cheap. I assume it's a bottom rung cheap piece of shite that'll break just after its warranty is up but still, weird to see it get so cheap. I may just switch eventually .

I doubt there's much point in switching to blueray unless you've a highdefinition television to connect it to ? Cause I still just got a CRT like. I'm not trying to recreate the cinema experience, I just like watching films at home.

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Post #: 55
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 31/7/2009 11:51:05 PM   
UTB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: surveyofsociety

I doubt there's much point in switching to blueray unless you've a highdefinition television to connect it to ?


No point at all, no. You just wouldn't get the full benefits of it.


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Post #: 56
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 31/7/2009 11:51:50 PM   
UTB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: surveyofsociety

I doubt there's much point in switching to blueray unless you've a highdefinition television to connect it to ?


No point at all, no. You just wouldn't get the full benefits of it.


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Post #: 57
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 1/8/2009 12:47:43 AM   
vader100

 

Posts: 1580
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quote:

ORIGINAL: surveyofsociety

Saw a blueray player in one of them cheap-ass Scandanavian shops there a few days ago. €150 I think it was. Pretty surprised actually it was that cheap. I assume it's a bottom rung cheap piece of shite that'll break just after its warranty is up but still, weird to see it get so cheap. I may just switch eventually .

I doubt there's much point in switching to blueray unless you've a highdefinition television to connect it to ? Cause I still just got a CRT like. I'm not trying to recreate the cinema experience, I just like watching films at home.


Yes you are right you need an HD ready TV at least to get the Bluray benefit but as for the price Tesco were selling Sony BDP350's for £99.


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Post #: 58
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 1/8/2009 3:28:20 PM   
Nostromo.


Posts: 109
Joined: 3/5/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: vader100

quote:

ORIGINAL: surveyofsociety

Saw a blueray player in one of them cheap-ass Scandanavian shops there a few days ago. €150 I think it was. Pretty surprised actually it was that cheap. I assume it's a bottom rung cheap piece of shite that'll break just after its warranty is up but still, weird to see it get so cheap. I may just switch eventually .

I doubt there's much point in switching to blueray unless you've a highdefinition television to connect it to ? Cause I still just got a CRT like. I'm not trying to recreate the cinema experience, I just like watching films at home.


Yes you are right you need an HD ready TV at least to get the Bluray benefit but as for the price Tesco were selling Sony BDP350's for £99.



Am I right in saying if you watch a BR on a CRT the picture will be in black and white? Something to do with not being able to decipher the code properly. Or have I dreamt that?


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Post #: 59
RE: Are Blu Rays worth the premium over DVDs - 1/8/2009 3:36:43 PM   
vader100

 

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Joined: 30/9/2005
There was some talk of this with the PS3 but it was unfounded I believe.

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