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RE: Wolverine - 30/4/2009 8:09:29 PM   
Starscream


Posts: 5221
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Cats Lair
Pure Entertainment, Very well cast and as usual Jackman is the star of the show but it's great to finally see the underrated Liev Schreiber get a role he deserves. The Wolverine/ Sabertooth dynamic is a great addition. My main fault though was that Gambit wasn't in it enough. Overall good popcorn fun and much better than X men and X Men 3.

8/10

_____________________________

The allspark will be mine!
Post #: 61
RE: Good but not on par with X-Men 2 - 30/4/2009 8:52:22 PM   
fightclubber

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 13/9/2006
I almost 4got about that fucking terrible ending, with the kids walking into a tony hart painted helicopter, back up by a clay mation Patrick Stewart

Rancid 

(in reply to krudler)
Post #: 62
RE: AS MUCH AS EXPECTED... - 30/4/2009 10:01:33 PM   
jimoakley666


Posts: 578
Joined: 26/5/2006
From: Wales



quote:

Batman and Robin?!? Hardly, mate. What were you smoking??

Nothing, thank you. But this was just neon lighting away from that movie. I really can't believe the franchise has fell this far. I side with Goodfella and krudler on this one.

My own full review here (I tried to avoid major spoilers): http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/articles/fb/6435-wolverine



Not even close and you know it! Batman and bloody Robin was a cartoon. It had cartoon sound effects when people fell over. Wolverine is nowhere NEAR Batman and friggin' Robin!!! Seriously! Are you sure you're not high?


_____________________________

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

(in reply to Film Brain)
Post #: 63
RE: AS MUCH AS EXPECTED... - 30/4/2009 10:31:47 PM   
Film Brain

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 2/1/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: jimoakley666
quote:

quote:

Batman and Robin?!? Hardly, mate. What were you smoking??

Nothing, thank you. But this was just neon lighting away from that movie. I really can't believe the franchise has fell this far. I side with Goodfella and krudler on this one.

Not even close and you know it! Batman and bloody Robin was a cartoon. It had cartoon sound effects when people fell over. Wolverine is nowhere NEAR Batman and friggin' Robin!!! Seriously! Are you sure you're not high?

Don't drink, don't smoke, so check. By the time Wolverine flew through the air like he was being grabbed by the hand of God or bounced on water like a bean bag, the words "cartoony" were going through my mind along with "bloody silly". Hell, the dialogue is on par with a poor Saturday Morning Cartoon at points. That fight with Blob (the "Bub" exchange was enough to make me roll my eyes back into my head) was ludicrious, pointless running time filler, which would have been far better spent on tiny, insignificant things like character development so I give a damn someone pops their clogs every 10 minutes (which stops being effective by the 4th time). At least the plot in Batman and Robin resembed or impersonated coherent. This has more holes than a sieve.

Examples (HUGE spoilers, naturally):
- Gambit, an escaped prisoner keeps a low profile... by being the flashy, attention-seeking card-sharp who has gambling debts. Great plan.
- How does Weapon XI's head keep sending out laser beams?
- Why do the eye beams keep changing from heat to concussion?
- Why doesn't Stryker send Agent Zero with the adamantium bullets? Particularly since he shot him right in the ten spot!
- How come a normal bullet knocks out Wolverine for 2 minutes in X2 whilst here it does nothing.
- How can adamantium penetrate adamantium? That's like bashing two rocks together.
- What the hell was Wolverine doing on that Stryker mission? Everyone BUT him got something to do! Was he picking his teeth with his claws?
- How does a knocked out Gambit suddenly disappear off the floor onto the top of a building in the space of a cut. (Answer: sloppy editing)
- How does Weapon XI's arms work with the katana blades in them? I can suspend disbelief for Wolverine, but those blades were the whole length of his arm and came out of his knuckles! He wouldn't be able to move his arms, severly impairing his dexterity.
- How does Stryker go so far (looked like he walked for days) when the police were on the island in minutes?
- Where did Logan's jacket go? And how come he has it back for the other movies?
- How can Stryker be in the position to talk to the President when he killed a general?
- Why does Silverfox go to the trouble of an elaborate ruse when she could have grabbed Wolverine by the hand and told him to go through the bonding.
- Why does Agent Zero kill the old couple. They weren't targets, he was just being EEEVVVVIIILLL. Not to mention it gives away their position.
- How can Wolverine not smell bear blood on Silverfox?
- How come Sabretooth and Wolverine don't recognise each other in X-Men?
- Why did they go to the trouble of building an entire new dam for Stryker after his waterfall base (why?) after he kills the general?
- What the hell does Wolverine do with Silverfox after the cut away to the bar? What was he doing in that time?
- How come everyone calls Wolverine an animal or a nasty person when we don't actually see any real evidence of this?
- How does Stryker know exactly  what will happen to Wolverine with the adamantium bullets?


So many more. I can usually overlook plot holes, but this was an assault on common sense and logic.

< Message edited by Film Brain -- 30/4/2009 10:49:47 PM >

(in reply to jimoakley666)
Post #: 64
All is forgiven Brett! - 30/4/2009 10:52:26 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
If this film were an animal it would be roadkill. Not just a armadillo or a dog, but a freakin' huge cow. This film would be a bloated dead cow that is right next to a town in the middle of summer. The stench of it so vile that it carries across homes and cafes and shops making everyone uncomfortable.

Hyperbole? Sure. Sue me.

This is a really bad film. It has not been thought out, has some of the weakest effects work I can think of in a modern blockbuster, and is directed like a TV pilot. It also has more green screen work than 300. Only it looks like something from an old Bond film when they used rear screen projection.

Brett Ratner -all is forgiven! You no longer have the title of making the worst X-Men film!

I am a big fan of the first two X Men films – the first is one of the best demonstrations of a medium sized budget delivering blockbuster sized entertainment. The second one paved the way in showing how intelligent superhero movies were possible. The third, well after tonight I have a new appreciation for it. Its not great, but moves like a freight train, is crammed full of ideas and has some dynamic fight scenes (Magneto and the prison truck is far far better than the Wolverine vs helicopter scene in this film for instance).

Wolverine looked good. It certainly had some good writers involved, a director who had made an impressive film, and Hugh Jackman getting in on the production side of things seemed to me to be a singal that things were looking up for the franchise.

Walking out this evening I am at a loss for words. Where did it all go wrong? The next part of the review is going to go in-depth on spoilers so avoid if you want to see the film (but please, go and watch X Men 2 again – really, I'm looking out for you here)



SPOILERS



Rouge: "Does it hurt?”
Logan: "Every time”

I'm paraphrasing, but that line in X-Men perfectly sums up who Wolverine is, and the rage that is within him. This film doesn't get close to paying off those lines. In the first film, we felt his pain a few times when the claws came out. In this film they are used for comedic effect.

I swear during the credits in the World War One scene a Spitfire shoots at a trench. I'm willing to be corrected here, but if I saw what I think I saw then it just goes to show the wilful ignorance on display.

The relationship between Creed and Logan, which should have been at the centre of the film, gets played off screen. Logan walks away and suddenly its war? What sort of abusive relationship did these two guys have? There needed to be more build up to why the fell out.

Wolverine getting the adamanitum (sp) felt like it was a scene that they had to do, but wanted to get over with as soon as possible. Why was Logan to become indestructible? I'm pretty sure he was taking bullets and blunt force trauma before the experiment.  How did Stryker know Creed wouldn't take it?

Logan's girlfriend. So so dumb. The twist may have worked (of course they then reverse it straight away) but seeing how they faked her death made the whole thing stupid. Creed injects her then puts syrup over her? Does Logan bother looking for marks? What did he do with the body? Did he just leave it there to rot? I don't know if she was brought back as a result of reshoots, but it would have been better if she remained dead.

Where the heck did Gambit run to, only to run back over roof tops to attack Logan and Creed? He was punched out right behind Logan. Such a useless character and a fop to fans who wanted to see him.

Did you know this film was set in the 70s? Me neither.

Wolverine vs. the Blob  - a character whose makeup makes Juggernaut look like a Grade A Stan Winston creation. And then he puts on boxing gloves. Singer must be pissed that all the work he put into the character has turned to crap.

The film really reaches it nadir when, after the experiment, Logan meets up with Ma and Pa Kent. Yes, that is who they are. Bet Clark was away on business, but left some clothes for Wolverine to wear. Ma and Pa Kent bring the film to a halt with their folksy charm and generosity. In Singers film Wolverine comes out of the lab covered in blood. Here he gets a blow dry and a motorbike.

And did they really need to shoe horn in a reason for his name being Wolverine? Could we not have got along with the idea it was his "name” in Vietnam?

The fight on the Statue of Liberty pisses all over the fight between Obi Wan, Qui Gon  and Darth Maul in this film. The Sabertooth/Wolverine fights in that film were more fun as well.

And what was with the bullets at the end? You had a mutant who could tell people what to do by touch. Could she not have told Logan to forget everything due to the pain it was causing him as she lay dying? Could Stryker not have used his son to block Logan's memories? And why did it happen where it did? It seems pretty obvious to me that he lost his memory at Alkaline Lake.

Talking of which, the Logan we see in this film does not mesh up with the character we are told about in X Men 2. I always had a feeling that Wolverine was not a nice guy before the experiment and was working with the government.

Then we get the Patrick Stewart cameo. I am not convinced that he is actually there on screen. It almost looks like a mo-cap experiment. The de-aging in part 3 was a little off, but no where to the degree it was here. And why does he show up at that point? How does he know what's happening? And more to the point, why is his partner at the time, Magneto, not tearing up the island? He isn't known to be a fan of people being kept in cages.


END SPOILERS.



I could go on about the awful writing, the total waste of characters that could be good (Reynolds had potential, but was wasted. Totally wasted).

This is a void of quality entertainment. It takes no risks, and doesn't seem to have a point to it – something which all the other X-Men films have. We see none of the wider world and how people react to mutants.

I'm sure there are people who loved it and will say that I am looking too deeply into it, but I'm not even looking for the flaws here. If you like the character then nothing will stop you from seeing this. If however you just like a good time at the movies, or are a fan of the X-Men films, then avoid.

It's a dull film that is badly staged and I really hope the production teams take a step back and realise that the superhero movies from last year really showed how the genre is maturing. The Hulk is much much better film than this and it is regarded as the worst of last year's crop.

Fox are behind on the times and I have no doubt that Wolverine will not be looked back on fondly in a decade's time.

One star.



< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 30/4/2009 10:53:49 PM >


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Film Brain)
Post #: 65
RE: AS MUCH AS EXPECTED... - 30/4/2009 10:55:42 PM   
CORLEONE

 

Posts: 4716
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Nakatomi Plaza
Comparing this to Batman and Robin is laughable. Have a couple of beers next time, you might lighten up a little.

_____________________________

Al Swearengen: "Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back".

(in reply to Film Brain)
Post #: 66
RE: All is forgiven Brett! - 30/4/2009 10:59:07 PM   
CORLEONE

 

Posts: 4716
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Nakatomi Plaza

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Brett Ratner -all is forgiven! You no longer have the title of making the worst X-Men film!



I'm trying to think of a witty sentence to reply but I just can't stop laughing.

_____________________________

Al Swearengen: "Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back".

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 67
RE: AS MUCH AS EXPECTED... - 30/4/2009 11:17:37 PM   
Film Brain

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 2/1/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE
Comparing this to Batman and Robin is laughable. Have a couple of beers next time, you might lighten up a little.

Is it really? (Says someone who has the only good moment in the film as his avatar) Or maybe Superman IV: The Quest for Peace is more applicable: poor special effects, studio compromised, poorly edited, star in creative control, short running time, forth in a franchise that should kill it, made like a Cannon movie with a modern budget... I agree, I was wrong. That comparison is definetly much more applicable.

Laughable was the film! It was the best unintentional comedy in years! I recommend it to bad movie fans like myself.

< Message edited by Film Brain -- 30/4/2009 11:19:19 PM >

(in reply to CORLEONE)
Post #: 68
RE: AS MUCH AS EXPECTED... - 1/5/2009 12:25:17 AM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 4005
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
A sipid, boring, miserable experience that plays to all of it's weaknesses...none of it's strengths.

I've noticed people have compared this to Schumacher's shocker Batman & Robin which is a bit unfair...at least B&R had that "so bad it's funny" quality. Apart from a well-crafted title sequence and solid performances by Scheiber (or however you spell his name), Monaghan & Reynolds this is a big steaming pile of horse manure. A horrid script with crater-sized plotholes that underuses interesting characters and completely dilutes the main man of his charisma & persona built in the Singer films. Most dammingly, it makes a mockery out of a legendary Xmen character (Gambit)....and don't get me started on.......SPOILER.................the appearance of a CGI coated waxdoll version of  Professor Xavier.


I'm dismayed as well with the people here giving it positive reviews and using the "it's a big, fun blockbuster what did you expect" excuse. Honestly kids, are you watching the same thing as the rest of us? Iron Man is a big, fun, stupid blockbuster. This is a dreadful, expensive, studio-influenced turkey. And it's that type of moronic attitude that'll encourage the goons at Fox to continue to churn out these expensive turkeys!!!


1/5


< Message edited by Qwerty Norris -- 1/5/2009 12:27:10 AM >


_____________________________

Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

(in reply to Film Brain)
Post #: 69
RE: AS MUCH AS EXPECTED... - 1/5/2009 2:16:14 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE

Comparing this to Batman and Robin is laughable. Have a couple of beers next time, you might lighten up a little.


Being someone here who finds that thinks X3 was worse than B&R, I think it is possible

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to CORLEONE)
Post #: 70
RE: - 1/5/2009 9:21:39 AM   
Marvel_79


Posts: 1110
Joined: 15/12/2005
Can't believe the negative reaction this has got from a fair chunk of people. I went last night with four friends and mentioned I'd seen Empire had given it 2 stars and it was getting mixed comments on the forum. So we all went in with lowered expectations, but came out wondering why it had been negatively received. Great action movie. Brilliant acting performances, particularly for a comic book movie, I know The Dark Knight raised the bar but this isn't aiming at that bar - Solid action performance are what we get. There's just the right amount of character and action. Ok it would have been good to see more of certain characters but at the end of the day this is a Wolverine movie, spin offs for Gambit etc... just excite me further. So what if it's not true to the origins in the Comics, this is a movie, it's difficult to do everything in movies that you can in comic books

8/10
Post #: 71
RE: Wolverine - 1/5/2009 9:25:27 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

If this film were an animal it would be roadkill. Not just a armadillo or a dog, but a freakin' huge cow. This film would be a bloated dead cow that is right next to a town in the middle of summer. The stench of it so vile that it carries across homes and cafes and shops making everyone uncomfortable.

Hyperbole? Sure. Sue me.

This is a really bad film. It has not been thought out, has some of the weakest effects work I can think of in a modern blockbuster, and is directed like a TV pilot. It also has more green screen work than 300. Only it looks like something from an old Bond film when they used rear screen projection.

Brett Ratner -all is forgiven! You no longer have the title of making the worst X-Men film!

I am a big fan of the first two X Men films – the first is one of the best demonstrations of a medium sized budget delivering blockbuster sized entertainment. The second one paved the way in showing how intelligent superhero movies were possible. The third, well after tonight I have a new appreciation for it. Its not great, but moves like a freight train, is crammed full of ideas and has some dynamic fight scenes (Magneto and the prison truck is far far better than the Wolverine vs helicopter scene in this film for instance).

Wolverine looked good. It certainly had some good writers involved, a director who had made an impressive film, and Hugh Jackman getting in on the production side of things seemed to me to be a singal that things were looking up for the franchise.

Walking out this evening I am at a loss for words. Where did it all go wrong? The next part of the review is going to go in-depth on spoilers so avoid if you want to see the film (but please, go and watch X Men 2 again – really, I'm looking out for you here)



SPOILERS



Rouge: "Does it hurt?”
Logan: "Every time”

I'm paraphrasing, but that line in X-Men perfectly sums up who Wolverine is, and the rage that is within him. This film doesn't get close to paying off those lines. In the first film, we felt his pain a few times when the claws came out. In this film they are used for comedic effect.

I swear during the credits in the World War One scene a Spitfire shoots at a trench. I'm willing to be corrected here, but if I saw what I think I saw then it just goes to show the wilful ignorance on display.

The relationship between Creed and Logan, which should have been at the centre of the film, gets played off screen. Logan walks away and suddenly its war? What sort of abusive relationship did these two guys have? There needed to be more build up to why the fell out.

Wolverine getting the adamanitum (sp) felt like it was a scene that they had to do, but wanted to get over with as soon as possible. Why was Logan to become indestructible? I'm pretty sure he was taking bullets and blunt force trauma before the experiment.  How did Stryker know Creed wouldn't take it?

Logan's girlfriend. So so dumb. The twist may have worked (of course they then reverse it straight away) but seeing how they faked her death made the whole thing stupid. Creed injects her then puts syrup over her? Does Logan bother looking for marks? What did he do with the body? Did he just leave it there to rot? I don't know if she was brought back as a result of reshoots, but it would have been better if she remained dead.

Where the heck did Gambit run to, only to run back over roof tops to attack Logan and Creed? He was punched out right behind Logan. Such a useless character and a fop to fans who wanted to see him.

Did you know this film was set in the 70s? Me neither.

Wolverine vs. the Blob  - a character whose makeup makes Juggernaut look like a Grade A Stan Winston creation. And then he puts on boxing gloves. Singer must be pissed that all the work he put into the character has turned to crap.

The film really reaches it nadir when, after the experiment, Logan meets up with Ma and Pa Kent. Yes, that is who they are. Bet Clark was away on business, but left some clothes for Wolverine to wear. Ma and Pa Kent bring the film to a halt with their folksy charm and generosity. In Singers film Wolverine comes out of the lab covered in blood. Here he gets a blow dry and a motorbike.

And did they really need to shoe horn in a reason for his name being Wolverine? Could we not have got along with the idea it was his "name” in Vietnam
?

The fight on the Statue of Liberty pisses all over the fight between Obi Wan, Qui Gon  and Darth Maul in this film. The Sabertooth/Wolverine fights in that film were more fun as well.

And what was with the bullets at the end? You had a mutant who could tell people what to do by touch. Could she not have told Logan to forget everything due to the pain it was causing him as she lay dying? Could Stryker not have used his son to block Logan's memories? And why did it happen where it did? It seems pretty obvious to me that he lost his memory at Alkaline Lake.

Talking of which, the Logan we see in this film does not mesh up with the character we are told about in X Men 2. I always had a feeling that Wolverine was not a nice guy before the experiment and was working with the government.

Then we get the Patrick Stewart cameo. I am not convinced that he is actually there on screen. It almost looks like a mo-cap experiment. The de-aging in part 3 was a little off, but no where to the degree it was here. And why does he show up at that point? How does he know what's happening? And more to the point, why is his partner at the time, Magneto, not tearing up the island? He isn't known to be a fan of people being kept in cages.


END SPOILERS.



I could go on about the awful writing, the total waste of characters that could be good (Reynolds had potential, but was wasted. Totally wasted).

This is a void of quality entertainment. It takes no risks, and doesn't seem to have a point to it – something which all the other X-Men films have. We see none of the wider world and how people react to mutants.

I'm sure there are people who loved it and will say that I am looking too deeply into it, but I'm not even looking for the flaws here. If you like the character then nothing will stop you from seeing this. If however you just like a good time at the movies, or are a fan of the X-Men films, then avoid.

It's a dull film that is badly staged and I really hope the production teams take a step back and realise that the superhero movies from last year really showed how the genre is maturing. The Hulk is much much better film than this and it is regarded as the worst of last year's crop.

Fox are behind on the times and I have no doubt that Wolverine will not be looked back on fondly in a decade's time.

One star.




On the drive home, my brother and I discussed all these points - was it set in the 70s?! If so, the production design was awful? Silver Fox posing as his girlfriend, dying just so he gets angry and volunteers for the Weapon X project?!? Worse. Plan. Ever.

How did Gambit get off the island? If he's been running for two years, why does everyone know where he is?  Victor has no problem finding him.

What happens to Victor? Does he fall into a plot hole? Is his memory wiped too somehow so he doesn't recognise Logan in X1? How does Stryker get back into a position where he's advising the President in X2 after killing a general and going rogue?

Then there's the whole Deadpool thing - I'm not a huge comic fan, but isn't he meant to be sarcastic? Why is his mouth sewn up? Can Logan's blades REALLY deflect Cyclops eye laser? He's controlled by typing stuff on a keyboard? Why didn't he just use the 'diamond skin' power all the time?

So many questions and the more I think about it, the more it makes less sense than I though. Of course, during all this post-film discussion, my girlfriend told us off, saying we were over analysing it... but it does seem very sloppy.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 72
RE: AS MUCH AS EXPECTED... - 1/5/2009 9:36:43 AM   
CORLEONE

 

Posts: 4716
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Nakatomi Plaza
quote:

ORIGINAL: Film Brain

quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE
Comparing this to Batman and Robin is laughable. Have a couple of beers next time, you might lighten up a little.

Is it really? (Says someone who has the only good moment in the film as his avatar) Or maybe Superman IV: The Quest for Peace is more applicable: poor special effects, studio compromised, poorly edited, star in creative control, short running time, forth in a franchise that should kill it, made like a Cannon movie with a modern budget... I agree, I was wrong. That comparison is definetly much more applicable.

Laughable was the film! It was the best unintentional comedy in years! I recommend it to bad movie fans like myself.


What's that got to do with anything? It's a fucking good avatar.

_____________________________

Al Swearengen: "Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back".

(in reply to Film Brain)
Post #: 73
RE: Wolverine - 1/5/2009 9:45:29 AM   
CORLEONE

 

Posts: 4716
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Nakatomi Plaza
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

So many questions and the more I think about it, the more it makes less sense than I though. Of course, during all this post-film discussion, my girlfriend told us off, saying we were over analysing it... but it does seem very sloppy.


I agree with your missus.

_____________________________

Al Swearengen: "Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back".

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 74
RE: Wolverine - 1/5/2009 9:55:48 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

So many questions and the more I think about it, the more it makes less sense than I though. Of course, during all this post-film discussion, my girlfriend told us off, saying we were over analysing it... but it does seem very sloppy.


I agree with your missus.


Well you do have a Wolverine avatar. I mean, were you ever going to not like this film?

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to CORLEONE)
Post #: 75
RE: Wolverine - 1/5/2009 10:00:27 AM   
CORLEONE

 

Posts: 4716
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Nakatomi Plaza
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: CORLEONE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

So many questions and the more I think about it, the more it makes less sense than I though. Of course, during all this post-film discussion, my girlfriend told us off, saying we were over analysing it... but it does seem very sloppy.


I agree with your missus.


Well you do have a Wolverine avatar. I mean, were you ever going to not like this film?


Probably not. It's a film with Wolverine, Sabertooth, Deadpool and Gambit in it. Doesn't mean I can't defend it against the hordes of negativity, though.

_____________________________

Al Swearengen: "Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back".

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 76
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 10:14:55 AM   
Marvel_79


Posts: 1110
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: alsybroth

I can clearly see though where the critisizms come in. So many of the X-Men characters in this film are severlt underplayed, especially in Gambit and Deadpool - not given enough time either to deliver their key characteristics from the comics. Like the title, this is Wolverine centered throughout. But then again, so were the first 3 if you look it that way.
But regardless, the action delivered, the special effects were flashy and swift, and extra credit goes to Liev Schrieber - his Sabretooth was excellent, much better than the one from the first flick, although it doesn't explain why Sabretooth/Victor Creed doesn't know Wolverine in the first flick. Major plot hole there.
It is probably the weakest in the series so far, but its still enoyable in my opinion.


So we can have a Gambit spin-off a Deadpool spin-off, as you say this was a Wolverine Movie

Why is it a plot whole? Judging by the age of Prof X and Scott Summer There is probably 15 - 20 years between the end of Origins and X-Men, plenty can happen and there is already talk of a second Wolverine film
Post #: 77
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 10:38:42 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marvel_79


quote:

ORIGINAL: alsybroth

I can clearly see though where the critisizms come in. So many of the X-Men characters in this film are severlt underplayed, especially in Gambit and Deadpool - not given enough time either to deliver their key characteristics from the comics. Like the title, this is Wolverine centered throughout. But then again, so were the first 3 if you look it that way.
But regardless, the action delivered, the special effects were flashy and swift, and extra credit goes to Liev Schrieber - his Sabretooth was excellent, much better than the one from the first flick, although it doesn't explain why Sabretooth/Victor Creed doesn't know Wolverine in the first flick. Major plot hole there.
It is probably the weakest in the series so far, but its still enoyable in my opinion.


So we can have a Gambit spin-off a Deadpool spin-off, as you say this was a Wolverine Movie

Why is it a plot whole? Judging by the age of Prof X and Scott Summer There is probably 15 - 20 years between the end of Origins and X-Men, plenty can happen and there is already talk of a second Wolverine film


It takes place in the 70s. Scott Summers would be in his 40s by the time the X-Men movies arrive.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Marvel_79)
Post #: 78
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 10:42:38 AM   
Marvel_79


Posts: 1110
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marvel_79


quote:

ORIGINAL: alsybroth

I can clearly see though where the critisizms come in. So many of the X-Men characters in this film are severlt underplayed, especially in Gambit and Deadpool - not given enough time either to deliver their key characteristics from the comics. Like the title, this is Wolverine centered throughout. But then again, so were the first 3 if you look it that way.
But regardless, the action delivered, the special effects were flashy and swift, and extra credit goes to Liev Schrieber - his Sabretooth was excellent, much better than the one from the first flick, although it doesn't explain why Sabretooth/Victor Creed doesn't know Wolverine in the first flick. Major plot hole there.
It is probably the weakest in the series so far, but its still enoyable in my opinion.


So we can have a Gambit spin-off a Deadpool spin-off, as you say this was a Wolverine Movie

Why is it a plot whole? Judging by the age of Prof X and Scott Summer There is probably 15 - 20 years between the end of Origins and X-Men, plenty can happen and there is already talk of a second Wolverine film


It takes place in the 70s. Scott Summers would be in his 40s by the time the X-Men movies arrive.


The main body of the film starts in the 70's but that doesn't mean it ends in the 70's. Even so do mutants age at the same rate as humans? But this still shows plenty of time for Sabertooth to forget Wolverine for any number of reasons in between

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 79
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 10:44:28 AM   
theoriginalcynic

 

Posts: 6521
Joined: 10/4/2007
You're all over analysing it - it's a fun (early) summer blockbuster.  Ok some of the CGI is poor (like in the bathroom) but it has some genuine unexpected moments and it's full of great action scenes (see the end fight) Reynolds and the dude from scream are excellent in the film.  It might not play as well at home as in the cinema due to the wow special effects so see it on the big screen.  Over all a 3 and a half to four star film.  Forget the plot holes and enjoy the ride...

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 80
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 10:59:26 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

You're all over analysing it - it's a fun (early) summer blockbuster.  Ok some of the CGI is poor (like in the bathroom) but it has some genuine unexpected moments and it's full of great action scenes (see the end fight) Reynolds and the dude from scream are excellent in the film.  It might not play as well at home as in the cinema due to the wow special effects so see it on the big screen.  Over all a 3 and a half to four star film.  Forget the plot holes and enjoy the ride...


But the ride doesn't make any sense. The ride says we are going to Awesome Town and then re-directs to Suck City. The ride isn't fun.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to theoriginalcynic)
Post #: 81
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 11:03:37 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marvel_79


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marvel_79


quote:

ORIGINAL: alsybroth

I can clearly see though where the critisizms come in. So many of the X-Men characters in this film are severlt underplayed, especially in Gambit and Deadpool - not given enough time either to deliver their key characteristics from the comics. Like the title, this is Wolverine centered throughout. But then again, so were the first 3 if you look it that way.
But regardless, the action delivered, the special effects were flashy and swift, and extra credit goes to Liev Schrieber - his Sabretooth was excellent, much better than the one from the first flick, although it doesn't explain why Sabretooth/Victor Creed doesn't know Wolverine in the first flick. Major plot hole there.
It is probably the weakest in the series so far, but its still enoyable in my opinion.


So we can have a Gambit spin-off a Deadpool spin-off, as you say this was a Wolverine Movie

Why is it a plot whole? Judging by the age of Prof X and Scott Summer There is probably 15 - 20 years between the end of Origins and X-Men, plenty can happen and there is already talk of a second Wolverine film


It takes place in the 70s. Scott Summers would be in his 40s by the time the X-Men movies arrive.


The main body of the film starts in the 70's but that doesn't mean it ends in the 70's. Even so do mutants age at the same rate as humans? But this still shows plenty of time for Sabertooth to forget Wolverine for any number of reasons in between


The Three Mile Island nuclear accident (which is film claims was caused by a mutant fight) occured in 1979. The first X-Men film takes place in the "Near Future" of 2000.

Summers was a teenager at that point. He must be in his 40s by the time X-Men comes around. And does Cyclops have age reducing abilites? I doubt it.

Its just another thing that wasn't well thought out.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 1/5/2009 11:04:38 AM >


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Marvel_79)
Post #: 82
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 11:11:07 AM   
Marvel_79


Posts: 1110
Joined: 15/12/2005
I don't want to get in to over analysis here (but I am!) 1979 - I was born, year 2000 I turned 21. Summers was about 14-15 so about 35 at time of the first X-Men, seem plausible, it does to me

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 83
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 11:14:00 AM   
jimoakley666


Posts: 578
Joined: 26/5/2006
From: Wales

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marvel_79


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marvel_79


quote:

ORIGINAL: alsybroth

I can clearly see though where the critisizms come in. So many of the X-Men characters in this film are severlt underplayed, especially in Gambit and Deadpool - not given enough time either to deliver their key characteristics from the comics. Like the title, this is Wolverine centered throughout. But then again, so were the first 3 if you look it that way.
But regardless, the action delivered, the special effects were flashy and swift, and extra credit goes to Liev Schrieber - his Sabretooth was excellent, much better than the one from the first flick, although it doesn't explain why Sabretooth/Victor Creed doesn't know Wolverine in the first flick. Major plot hole there.
It is probably the weakest in the series so far, but its still enoyable in my opinion.


So we can have a Gambit spin-off a Deadpool spin-off, as you say this was a Wolverine Movie

Why is it a plot whole? Judging by the age of Prof X and Scott Summer There is probably 15 - 20 years between the end of Origins and X-Men, plenty can happen and there is already talk of a second Wolverine film


It takes place in the 70s. Scott Summers would be in his 40s by the time the X-Men movies arrive.


The main body of the film starts in the 70's but that doesn't mean it ends in the 70's. Even so do mutants age at the same rate as humans? But this still shows plenty of time for Sabertooth to forget Wolverine for any number of reasons in between


The end part of the film takes place on Wednesday, 28th March , 1979. That's when the 3 Mile Island meltdown happened. Ha. Although the Humvees that Striker was using didn't show up until 1984 but the Humvee as we know it today was in fact designed in 1979. But hey, Life on Mars, L.A. Confidential and other films set in the past make similar mistakes all the time. Some times fro dramatic purposes.

So if Scott is 15(ish) in this movie then he'd be around 35 during the X-Movies, right? The main plot hole is where did Scott get his specs? But there was no eye beam from behind them so maybe he had control of his optic blasts until Stryker pissed about with his eyes (hence the bloody bandages) and he purposefully blasted at Creed in the school.

_____________________________

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

(in reply to Marvel_79)
Post #: 84
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 11:15:41 AM   
theoriginalcynic

 

Posts: 6521
Joined: 10/4/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

You're all over analysing it - it's a fun (early) summer blockbuster.  Ok some of the CGI is poor (like in the bathroom) but it has some genuine unexpected moments and it's full of great action scenes (see the end fight) Reynolds and the dude from scream are excellent in the film.  It might not play as well at home as in the cinema due to the wow special effects so see it on the big screen.  Over all a 3 and a half to four star film.  Forget the plot holes and enjoy the ride...


But the ride doesn't make any sense. The ride says we are going to Awesome Town and then re-directs to Suck City. The ride isn't fun.


I disagree it was very fun.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 85
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 11:15:50 AM   
jimoakley666


Posts: 578
Joined: 26/5/2006
From: Wales

quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

You're all over analysing it - it's a fun (early) summer blockbuster.  Ok some of the CGI is poor (like in the bathroom) but it has some genuine unexpected moments and it's full of great action scenes (see the end fight) Reynolds and the dude from scream are excellent in the film.  It might not play as well at home as in the cinema due to the wow special effects so see it on the big screen.  Over all a 3 and a half to four star film.  Forget the plot holes and enjoy the ride...


But weren't they actual prop claws in the bathroom scene? He wasn't fighting with them and was just looking at them extended so that normally means they are an on-set prop.

_____________________________

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

(in reply to theoriginalcynic)
Post #: 86
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 11:16:57 AM   
jimoakley666


Posts: 578
Joined: 26/5/2006
From: Wales
Ha. You got there first, mate.

_____________________________

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 87
RE: All is forgiven Brett! - 1/5/2009 11:37:48 AM   
nclowe


Posts: 956
Joined: 15/2/2006
From: UK
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Did you know this film was set in the 70s? Me neither.



This film was set in the 70's? That I did not get! How come Strykers team had all the newish looking jump suits and weapons? And wasn't Scott Summers like 16 or so in the film? That'd make him...what...36ish at the youngest by X1?

EDIT: Just checked IMDB and it says there that XMO:W takes place 17 years prior to X1. Given that X1 was set in the near future, but released in 2000 the earliest the film should be set is 1983.... Right... Someone over at Fox needs to make themself a basic timeline...

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 88
RE: AS MUCH AS EXPECTED... - 1/5/2009 11:39:20 AM   
jimoakley666


Posts: 578
Joined: 26/5/2006
From: Wales

quote:

ORIGINAL: Film Brain

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimoakley666
quote:

quote:

Batman and Robin?!? Hardly, mate. What were you smoking??

Nothing, thank you. But this was just neon lighting away from that movie. I really can't believe the franchise has fell this far. I side with Goodfella and krudler on this one.

Not even close and you know it! Batman and bloody Robin was a cartoon. It had cartoon sound effects when people fell over. Wolverine is nowhere NEAR Batman and friggin' Robin!!! Seriously! Are you sure you're not high?

Don't drink, don't smoke, so check. By the time Wolverine flew through the air like he was being grabbed by the hand of God or bounced on water like a bean bag, the words "cartoony" were going through my mind along with "bloody silly". Hell, the dialogue is on par with a poor Saturday Morning Cartoon at points. That fight with Blob (the "Bub" exchange was enough to make me roll my eyes back into my head) was ludicrious, pointless running time filler, which would have been far better spent on tiny, insignificant things like character development so I give a damn someone pops their clogs every 10 minutes (which stops being effective by the 4th time). At least the plot in Batman and Robin resembed or impersonated coherent. This has more holes than a sieve.

Examples (HUGE spoilers, naturally):
- Gambit, an escaped prisoner keeps a low profile... by being the flashy, attention-seeking card-sharp who has gambling debts. Great plan.
- How does Weapon XI's head keep sending out laser beams?
- Why do the eye beams keep changing from heat to concussion?
- Why doesn't Stryker send Agent Zero with the adamantium bullets? Particularly since he shot him right in the ten spot!
- How come a normal bullet knocks out Wolverine for 2 minutes in X2 whilst here it does nothing.
- How can adamantium penetrate adamantium? That's like bashing two rocks together.
- What the hell was Wolverine doing on that Stryker mission? Everyone BUT him got something to do! Was he picking his teeth with his claws?
- How does a knocked out Gambit suddenly disappear off the floor onto the top of a building in the space of a cut. (Answer: sloppy editing)
- How does Weapon XI's arms work with the katana blades in them? I can suspend disbelief for Wolverine, but those blades were the whole length of his arm and came out of his knuckles! He wouldn't be able to move his arms, severly impairing his dexterity.
- How does Stryker go so far (looked like he walked for days) when the police were on the island in minutes?
- Where did Logan's jacket go? And how come he has it back for the other movies?
- How can Stryker be in the position to talk to the President when he killed a general?
- Why does Silverfox go to the trouble of an elaborate ruse when she could have grabbed Wolverine by the hand and told him to go through the bonding.
- Why does Agent Zero kill the old couple. They weren't targets, he was just being EEEVVVVIIILLL. Not to mention it gives away their position.
- How can Wolverine not smell bear blood on Silverfox?
- How come Sabretooth and Wolverine don't recognise each other in X-Men?
- Why did they go to the trouble of building an entire new dam for Stryker after his waterfall base (why?) after he kills the general?
- What the hell does Wolverine do with Silverfox after the cut away to the bar? What was he doing in that time?
- How come everyone calls Wolverine an animal or a nasty person when we don't actually see any real evidence of this?
- How does Stryker know exactly  what will happen to Wolverine with the adamantium bullets?


So many more. I can usually overlook plot holes, but this was an assault on common sense and logic.


Ha ha. Fair enough about the vices. I commend you on your will power and remarkable ability to save many many a penny!

There are a lot of plot hole, I fully agree. But I will not and can not agree with you on the Batman and Robin comparison. No way. That film was off the charts!!! Urgh...

One of two of the above can be explained though...


Stryker is only told about the Adamantium bullets after Zero has been sent out by that other Doctor who I assume is Dr Cornelius.

With all the chaos on the island it wouldn't take much for an Army Colonel to just walk past all the law unaccosted.

Stryker has a mutant son who can mess with your mind so who knows how many ways he could talk himself outta the shit he's in. And also, who knows how the bent buggers in the secret service work. He could've struck a deal with the government.

Zero is a little shit who wants to rile Wolverine into a scrap. Maybe that's why he tops the old couple. Seconds later he radios in that Logan did the deed so maybe it was so no questions would be asked in K.O.ing Logan.

Wolverine wouldn't smell the bear blood or look for marks on Silverfox because she was messing with his mind. She probably made him just walk away and leave her 'body' in the woods too.

Wolverine wouldn't recognize Sabretooth because of the memories and Sabretooth kinda looks at Wolverine sideways in X1 as if he kinda remembers him. Maybe the goverment of Weapon Plus gets hold of Sabretooth in the intervening and cock about with his DNA which would explain the look too.

You do actually see the dam in this movie. If you look behind the helipad when they land to take Logan in you see it in the distance. It's the exact same dam as the Alkali Lake facility from X2. The position kinda implies that the helipad is where Wolverine first walks through and finds the place long gone at the beginning of X2.

Stryker doesn't know what will happen. All he knows is that it will damage his brain tissue, which will heal or regrow but the memories contained in that destroyed tissue will be lost because the new tissue is just that. A replacement with no stored memories.


But yeah. The rest had me too, ha ha.



_____________________________

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

(in reply to Film Brain)
Post #: 89
RE: I enjoyed it - 1/5/2009 12:00:46 PM   
theoriginalcynic

 

Posts: 6521
Joined: 10/4/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: jimoakley666


quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

You're all over analysing it - it's a fun (early) summer blockbuster.  Ok some of the CGI is poor (like in the bathroom) but it has some genuine unexpected moments and it's full of great action scenes (see the end fight) Reynolds and the dude from scream are excellent in the film.  It might not play as well at home as in the cinema due to the wow special effects so see it on the big screen.  Over all a 3 and a half to four star film.  Forget the plot holes and enjoy the ride...


But weren't they actual prop claws in the bathroom scene? He wasn't fighting with them and was just looking at them extended so that normally means they are an on-set prop.


I don't think so they looked very CGI-ish to me

(in reply to jimoakley666)
Post #: 90
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