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The Nightmare on Elm Street Appreciation Thread

 
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The Nightmare on Elm Street Appreciation Thread - 21/4/2009 11:23:15 AM   
losthighway


Posts: 3251
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford



I watched Elm Street 1 & 2 back-to-back yesterday and I had forgotten how nasty the original is at times, and also just how ahead of it's time Part 2 actually was. I remember as a child in the 80s how I really wanted to see Freddy's Revenge, as I was intrigued by the old WB VHS cover of Freddy above the desert and the school bus underneath him (anyone else remember that image - hard to find these days except on a t-shirt!).

Part 2 obviously doesn't stand up very well today and has scenes which are blatant homages/rip offs of other classic horror films, e.g. The Birds and The Shining. Also, while obviously having connections to the Elm Street mythology, it still sticks out like a sore thumb with the rest of the franchise. It was ahead of it's time because it presented a male protaganist in a (usually) female role experiencing many situations that you would normally see a girl/woman going through. Plus, whether folks agree/disagree, there is a definate gay subtext running throughout this film (imo) and that is what intrigues me most now as an adult. I smiled at these classic lines...

Grady's bedroom
Jesse: I'm scared, Grady. Something is trying to get inside my body.
Grady: She's female and waiting for you in the cabana. And you wanna sleep with me!

I know the makers have said they never intended there to be any gay subtext in this film but it's evidently a 'coming out' metphor imo. Of course, you could choose to read the film as just a simple horror film.

I'd be intrigued to know other people's views on this film and while I could have put this thread in 'Movie Musings', I just felt it deserved to be here instead as it really is one of my fave horror films.

< Message edited by losthighway -- 23/4/2009 11:05:24 AM >


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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:23:01 PM   
Rgirvan44


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From: Punishment Park
Subtext? Thats the damn TEXT of the film!

As I understand it, the script was intially nothing to do with Freddy or Elm Street, but New Line wanted to get a sequel off of the ground ASAP.

And the editor has confirmed that they noticed the subtext moved it forward. Even the director admits he sees it now!

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:37:46 PM   
Kazuya


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Part 2 is a piece of shit. The best one is the third.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:41:58 PM   
DazDaMan


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Elm Street 3 is the hands-down best of the sequels.  Fuck, it's the only one remotely memorable!  Who could forget the scene with Phillip (the puppet-maker) being manipulated by Freddy through his dreams??  Fucking awesome.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:45:18 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
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From: Punishment Park
The third one is great, but I enjoyed the second one. You were still seeing the producers and writers trying to figure out what Freddy was.

By the third film he was pretty much in place - the downside was the following sequels (but not New Nightmare-  that was pretty good)

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:49:09 PM   
Kazuya


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

Elm Street 3 is the hands-down best of the sequels.  Fuck, it's the only one remotely memorable!  Who could forget the scene with Phillip (the puppet-maker) being manipulated by Freddy through his dreams??  Fucking awesome.


Yeah man, it's fucking excellent, solid direction, good performances, plenty of suspense.





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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:52:15 PM   
DazDaMan


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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:55:56 PM   
Kazuya


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That bit where Krueger has syringes on his hands is really sinister.

"Let's get high."

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:57:50 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

That bit where Krueger has syringes on his hands is really sinister.

"Let's get high."




"Let's get high!"

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 12:59:32 PM   
Kazuya


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From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

That bit where Krueger has syringes on his hands is really sinister.

"Let's get high."




"Let's get high!"


That's creepy..what is it he says before, "C'mon, we're old friends, you and I" or something like that.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 1:02:09 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

That bit where Krueger has syringes on his hands is really sinister.

"Let's get high."




"Let's get high!"


That's creepy..what is it he says before, "C'mon, we're old friends, you and I" or something like that.


"Why - uh - why should we fight? We're old friends, you and I. Remember?"

Still Freddy when he was Freddy, not the cartoonish monster that he turned into...

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 7:30:55 PM   
directorscut


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I think Wes Craven's New Nightmare is the best of the lot. It's imaginative, smart and scary. It's easily the best made and acted film of the lot and uses its real world setting in a fun and at times unsettling way. And it's probably the only film in the series where I care whether a character lives or dies. It's also about making films and that's always a plus.

A Nightmare on Elm Street has the best potential of the lot on the page, but it felt too amateurishly made. Craven gives Freddy away entirely during the first murder; there's not much mystery left after it. And for the most part Freddy is a bumbling clown. Especially in the finale when it turns into Home Alone. It has some chilling moments (the school) and is always watchable, but it doesn't exploit the premise or history behind Freddy well enough. This is a film that actually could be improved by a remake - if they used the original script.

I thought the second one was surprisingly good. It's script isn't as good as the first, but I think it's executed better. Freddy is definitely more threatening in this film than in any other film in the series. There are definitely some bad scenes but they can't ruin the overall tone of the film. I honestly can't believe the hate this film gets. Although looking back it can be said that it broke the rules of the series, when it was made those rules weren't established and I thought the premise of Freddy trying to gain entrance into the real world through people was both a logical progression and a more interesting direction than any of the other sequels went down (bar New Nightmare).

Part III is entertaining enough while Part IV, V and VI are all junk. IV is the worst, V is about the same level but has some nice atmospheric moments and VI is strangely entertaining.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 21/4/2009 11:06:16 PM   
HughesRoss


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From: Merthyr
Well according to the great The Real Bozz on the slasher thread, the re-make is a direct copy of the original, with many of the memorable set pieces included...

Shocked that someone here as love for pt2 as its a horrid sequel, one of the worst ever made.

Every horror fan admits the 3rd is probably the most enjoyable but of course a New Nightmare is a pre-Scream, pure class with a wonderful "Dark Freddy" only let down by a weak climax.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 12:13:18 AM   
kingalan

 

Posts: 1149
Joined: 30/9/2005
The school bus opening is pretty good but it falls apart after that; a low point being Freddy's appearance at the pool-party where he uses his terrifying bladed glove to... throw some furniture about like a drunken Uncle. I'm surprised the teens didn't just get rid of him by sheepishly bundling him in a taxi and paying the driver in advance.

Part 3 is the best of the sequels fo' sho'.

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Post #: 14
RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 1:03:01 AM   
Sutty


Posts: 3552
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row
I'm a fan of part 2 also. The yellow school bus scene became almost iconic...

Freddy is still pretty dark here and relentless. Has some decent dialogue too:

"You go the body... I got the brain"

and probably one of the greatest lines in any freddy film...

"You're all my children now!"

Ok, there are some shonky scenes too, but this is Freddy. Not Argento or Romero. But then, they too have fluffed scenes before now. The gay subtext is obvious, and not sub textual either! Come on! There is a scene set inside a gay bar for fucks sake!!!

For me it stands up against aand beats parts 4, 5, 6, and even gives 3 a run for its money.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 7:07:22 AM   
Snake-Eyes


Posts: 9970
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From: ZONE 2
I remember many, many years ago, my parents' video shop - FREDDY'S REVENGE was HUGE on Video. 11 Year-Old Snake-Eyes was the envy of all the schoolkids with the cool promo t-shirts and posters I was given. Incidentally, losthighway, one of the posters is the one you posted - excellent artwork!

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 11:09:48 AM   
dhowdy

 

Posts: 967
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From: London
ha ha, i too remember passing the video shop on my paper round and seeing that original poster with freddy above the bus. i eventually got my hands on a large cardboard cut out of freddy from part 3....

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Post #: 17
RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 11:27:09 AM   
losthighway


Posts: 3251
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford
I watched Dream Warriors yesterday and I hate to say it but imo it ain't a patch on Part 2! If anything, Part 3 is actually the start of Freddy's decline into that cultural puppet where he started spewing lines like 'Pump the prime time bitch'. He stopped being scary in Part 3! I think a lot of people's love for DW is that it appears to be a natural sequel to the original with Nancy returning and Wes Craven behind the scenes again (a bit like how Exorcist 3 was really the official sequel to The Exorcist!).

Having said that, one of my other faves in the franchise is Part 4: Dream Master, I love the surrealist nature of some of the later sequels, e.g. where Alice and Dan end up going round and round in circles. Admittedly Krueger is now in full-on quip mode but I enjoyed the dream sequences and I think Alice is just as strong a heroine as Nancy.

Also, something which I didn't mention in my original post but is first introduced in Freddy's Revenge... the idea of there being a main teenager bringing victims to Freddy, i.e. 'you've got the body and i've got the brain'. This doesn't really happen in the original, rather he just appears, kills and Nancy is shown as the main opposition. However, this theme is fully introduced in FR, alluded to in Part 3 via Kristen and then fully realised in Parts 4 and 5 when Alice becomes the 'vessel'.

As for all the hatred towards Part 2, I don't get it but then again I don't really understand the hatred towards the later chapters either (apart from Dream Child which was just bizarre and not very good). I think all of the sequels have their merits and hold some really interesting ideas. As for Wes Craven's New Nightmare, it is a great film but that storyline wouldn't have been possible if the character of Freddy hadn't become the cultural icon he did through the various sequels!

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 11:50:54 AM   
dhowdy

 

Posts: 967
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From: London
yeah agreed. When Freddy starts becoming the guy you're rooting for you know the franchise has kind of lost its way..

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 12:19:50 PM   
The REAL Bozz


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Lost Highway you should turn this into a franchise thread as I reckon it has the legs for it.

Just gotta put in my two pence worth here. I read and reviewed the remake script in the slasher movie thread and it is for sure a straight up remake. As Hughes said a lot of similar scenes do appear however some plot points and characters are tweaked. Just to clear some stuff up before the film comes out Nancy features, as does Jessie and Kristen. However in the script Kristen is not Kristen Parker the heroine of part 3 and half of part 4. I think it was just a nod to the fans. Also the script is ace. The only problem will be if the director is useless or the cast is crap.

As for the series, I love Freddy's Revenge. Ace slasher flick and very underrated IMO. That gal who play's Lisa is like a young Meryl Streep, pure emotional powerhouse. Great stuff. Jessie and Lisa should have showed up in Dream Warriors IMO.

I also LOVE The Dream Master. I know, it was the begining of the threat but it's just ace. The soundtrack is fantastic. Tuesday Knight who played Kristen in Dream Master actually wrote and sung the opening theme which is ace. As for Alice....I reckon they should have just kep Kristen as the lead, I thinkt that's what Craven had in mind.

There's a ton of information a lot of people don't know about the series. Most important is the involvement of Craven in the sequels. He was actually still consulted up until Freddy's Dead. Craven actually was consulted in regards to plot right up till The Dream Child.  Not all of his ideas where used though. For example he wanted to explore the idea of time travel in part 4 through the teens dreams. Really cool stuff like this I would have loved to have seen. Also check out the first draft of Dream Warriors, very different from the film you all know and love and well worth a read. The budget would have been insane though.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 12:36:35 PM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2495
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quote:

ORIGINAL: The REAL Bozz

Lost Highway you should turn this into a franchise thread as I reckon it has the legs for it.


Seconded!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: losthighway
Having said that, one of my other faves in the franchise is Part 4: Dream Master, I love the surrealist nature of some of the later sequels, e.g. where Alice and Dan end up going round and round in circles. Admittedly Krueger is now in full-on quip mode but I enjoyed the dream sequences and I think Alice is just as strong a heroine as Nancy.


I like part 4 as well. It was the first Nightmare film I ever saw. It had the shit censored out of it on German televison but I still loved it. I had a huge crush on Lisa Wilcox after seeing it.



< Message edited by grucl -- 22/4/2009 12:41:03 PM >

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 12:41:50 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole
quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

Seconded


Thirded.

While I'm no big fan of the slasher flicks, Freddy Krueger was the one I grew up with, so have a lot of fondness for the series as a whole. 

< Message edited by DazDaMan -- 22/4/2009 12:42:52 PM >


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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 1:09:30 PM   
grucl

 

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Has anybody ever watched the TV series? I heared it was pretty much crap.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 1:10:47 PM   
DazDaMan


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From: Penicuik - a right shithole
I vaguely remember one episode of the series, involving a set of twins.  That's about it!

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 1:58:46 PM   
Kazuya


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From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
I really don't see how someone can call themselves fans of this series and still maintain that the second one is good. It's takes a great big shit on all that was established in the first one, making someone else do the slaughtering for Krueger, and establishing him in the "real world", eliminating a significant part of Krueger's (at the time) dream demon persona.
The actor playing the lead role, Mark Patton, is ghastly, zero personality, zero charisma, the direction is awkward and the film doesn't have an ounce of the wit of the original. Garbage.


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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 22/4/2009 3:22:32 PM   
Snake-Eyes


Posts: 9970
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From: ZONE 2

quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

I vaguely remember one episode of the series, involving a set of twins.  That's about it!


That was the Pilot Daz - it was quite surreal. It told the story of how Freddy Krueger was arrested and taken to court, the twins were two of his victims and then he was freed due to a small technicality and ultimately some Police Department Sheriff and a bunch of Parents/Vigilantes corner him in the boiler room and fry him. He comes back and wastes said Sheriff. I t was sort of a prequel to the First Film - Badly Acted and Badly Directed, yet it did feature Englund as Freddy. The rest of the series was just a bad 'Tales from the Crypt' rip-off with Freddy 'narrating' these random Horror Stories. It was kinda lame.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 23/4/2009 9:06:41 AM   
goldleader


Posts: 969
Joined: 30/9/2005
I watched part I, II and III back to back a few weeks about and i can see the upsides and downsides to each.  But i have to admitt that part II is better than i remember, a solid second film and i liked that is was a bit different to the first and not just a retred.  Part III was worst than i remember, seemed somehow short running time and also the powers that the Warriors had were really crap and didn't help them at all.

Have yet to watch Part IV, V and VI plus New Nightmare.  I have seen them when i was kid but want a fresh look as it has changed my view of the others. 

Its strange how films were great as a kid but them when you watch them years later how they can dissapoint or you are more impressed by the rubbish films of your youth.

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Post #: 27
RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 23/4/2009 9:34:19 AM   
losthighway


Posts: 3251
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford
quote:

Lost Highway you should turn this into a franchise thread as I reckon it has the legs for it.

 
Sounds good to me... How do I change it into a franchise thread!? Not sure how to change the overall title - I have to click on something!? Help please and I'll do it.

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 23/4/2009 9:39:20 AM   
losthighway


Posts: 3251
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

I really don't see how someone can call themselves fans of this series and still maintain that the second one is good. It's takes a great big shit on all that was established in the first one, making someone else do the slaughtering for Krueger, and establishing him in the "real world", eliminating a significant part of Krueger's (at the time) dream demon persona.
The actor playing the lead role, Mark Patton, is ghastly, zero personality, zero charisma, the direction is awkward and the film doesn't have an ounce of the wit of the original. Garbage.



Hmmm, fair enough regarding your views on FR. However, what are your views on the scenes in the original Nightmare where Nancy brings Krueger's hat out of her dream, and that final sequence where she brings him into reality to kill him... Surely this is exactly the same notion that is investigated in FR!??

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RE: A Nightmare on Elm Street: Part 2 - Freddy's Revenge - 23/4/2009 9:45:51 AM   
losthighway


Posts: 3251
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford
quote:

Just gotta put in my two pence worth here. I read and reviewed the remake script in the slasher movie thread and it is for sure a straight up remake. As Hughes said a lot of similar scenes do appear however some plot points and characters are tweaked. Just to clear some stuff up before the film comes out Nancy features, as does Jessie and Kristen. However in the script Kristen is not Kristen Parker the heroine of part 3 and half of part 4. I think it was just a nod to the fans. Also the script is ace. The only problem will be if the director is useless or the cast is crap.


Interesting... the video review of the script that I saw a few weeks ago said it actually had some major differences to the original and wasn't a straight up remake at all. In fact, if anything it sounded like a drama with horror elements(!!) (In short) the storyline was described as the kids investigating Krueger's background, whilst being killed off, and there is also a suggestion that he might have been innocent. Plus, there is no mention of his glove being used when he was alive so there was uncertainty about how this might come into the film.

< Message edited by losthighway -- 23/4/2009 9:46:16 AM >


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