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Overrated - What does it mean?

 
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Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 9:37:37 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
This comes from a few posts made in the Unpopular Opinion thread where there was a brief discussion as to why it appears that a film being “overrated” somehow constitutes a criticism of the film itself.

A film being underrated I can understand. There are plenty of films out there that haven’t been seen by a wider audience, but the reason that they are underrated tends to be because they are good films. An example I would give is a little known film called Bunny Lake is Missing. A brilliant physiological thriller that needs to be seen by more people. Underrated in terms of film criticism is used in this case in the positive and is used generally to enhance. But, that a film is little seen by people should make no impact on the person watching the film.

But overrated is something which I have never been able to grasp, especially when I read one line reviews like

“The Godfather is overrated”

What does that mean and why does it have any impact on the quality of a film? I could see someone saying

“The Godfather is a decent effort, with some compelling characters, but suffers from a bloated script, and a dull central performance, and is not quite the masterpiece many regard it to be”.

At least there is some explanation as to why the film is overrated by people. But to dislike a film primarily because it is “overrated” doesn’t make much sense to me.

I see this happening on lots of websites, so this isn’t a comment on Empireonline alone. I’m just curious why “overrated”, and general consensus is seen as a legitimate criticism of a film. It’s not the Dark Knights fault that it became hugely popular, but it feels like some hold it against the film and therefore allow the views of others to impact on their opinion of the film.

I recall the DVD review of The Fountain for Empire which appeared to go down this route, with the reviewer seemingly having a problem with the film being held in high regard by others.

So do you consider the popularity of a film to be something that can be levelled against it, and if so, why?

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Post #: 1
RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 9:41:57 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
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From: Enemies of Film HQ
Why did you have to use me in a post were I wasn't being completely serious?



I think its a matter of expectation though, you hear critics and audfiences calling a film great but then at the end you are left disappointed. Still not a good reason for a film to be called "overrated".


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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 9:43:01 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Why did you have to use me in a post were I wasn't being completely serious?



I think its a matter of expectation though, you hear critics and audfiences calling a film great but then at the end you are left disappointed. Still not a good reason for a film to be called "overrated".



You know, I didn't even mean to do that! Sorry!

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 10:36:55 PM   
somekindof_battery


Posts: 1608
Joined: 23/2/2008
Overrated is a lazy term used by people who don't or can't explain why they dislike a film but i imagine it stems from taking every review and account of the film as gospel then seeing it for themselves and not agreeing.




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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 11:23:24 PM   
darth silas


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From: My living room
Overrated means something isnt as good as many people make it out to be.In terms of films,its those ones that are supposedly brilliant but are in fact,quite shite.

Case in point,films like the LOTR trilogy,Casino Royale,and Pirates of the caribbean:The curse of the black pearl,are all hugely popular but are in fact,shite.

Hope that clears it up.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 11:25:19 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

Overrated means something isnt as good as many people make it out to be.In terms of films,its those ones that are supposedly brilliant but are in fact,quite shite.

Case in point,films like the LOTR trilogy,Casino Royale,and Pirates of the caribbean:The curse of the black pearl,are all hugely popular but are in fact,shite.

Hope that clears it up.


Yes. I understand that. But does the popularity of these films mean you dislike them even more?

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 11:25:50 PM   
Stewie_Griffin


Posts: 6968
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: St.Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

Overrated means something isnt as good as many people make it out to be.In terms of films,its those ones that are supposedly brilliant but are in fact,quite shite.

Case in point,films like the LOTR trilogy,Casino Royale,and Pirates of the caribbean:The curse of the black pearl,are all hugely popular but are in fact,shite.

Hope that clears it up.


Christ, you're predictable.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 11:28:06 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

Overrated means something isnt as good as many people make it out to be.In terms of films,its those ones that are supposedly brilliant but are in fact,quite shite.

Case in point,films like the LOTR trilogy,Casino Royale,and Pirates of the caribbean:The curse of the black pearl,are all hugely popular but are in fact,shite.

Hope that clears it up.


Yes. I understand that. But does the popularity of these films mean you dislike them even more?
Not necessarily,i hate the aforementioned movies because i think they are just bad films.It doesnt matter how much money those films made or how many people rave about them,i still think they are shit.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 13/4/2009 11:30:27 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

Overrated means something isnt as good as many people make it out to be.In terms of films,its those ones that are supposedly brilliant but are in fact,quite shite.

Case in point,films like the LOTR trilogy,Casino Royale,and Pirates of the caribbean:The curse of the black pearl,are all hugely popular but are in fact,shite.

Hope that clears it up.


Yes. I understand that. But does the popularity of these films mean you dislike them even more?
Not necessarily,i hate the aforementioned movies because i think they are just bad films.It doesnt matter how much money those films made or how many people rave about them,i still think they are shit.


Thats fine then - but there are people who will criticise a film because it is overrated as if a films populairty should be a score against it.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 12:13:24 AM   
directorscut


Posts: 10887
Joined: 30/9/2005
It means a lot of people like and movie and you don't.

And yes Casino Royale is overrated.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 12:19:04 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Again - the point I am making is not what does the word overrated mean. I am interested in how the word is used when criticising a film.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 1:04:03 AM   
SWOTBM


Posts: 1998
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Again - the point I am making is not what does the word overrated mean. I am interested in how the word is used when criticising a film.


lol, whats the title of the thread?

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 3:16:06 AM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6321
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham
In my eyes overrated does not constitute a bad film...

Take the Godfather for example, or citizen Kane. Two films which regularly top or come near the top of best films ever made lists, most public reviews will give them 5 stars, they are regarded by many as two of the most important, brilliant films ever made. With so much critical adoration it would be easy to say these films were overrated. If someone says this is the best film ever made, you watch it, enjoy it, but feel there are numerous other films that are better then that film is overrated, it is not necessarily a bad thing. I don't think it should ever be used as a criticism of a film in the context you pointed out above without elaboration of why you feel the film is overrated.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 5:37:19 AM   
Squidward Hark Bugle

 

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I saw The Dark Knight before anyone else did, in the morning of its first day of release in Australia, which (if I remember correctly) was before the release dates in the UK and the US.

I hated it before anyone else got a chance to love it. It wasn't backlash, because there was no praise at the time to lash back against.

I've explained many times why I dislike the film, so I won't do it here, but I know exactly why it's overrated.

Mr Marketer is a genius. If he was a painter then the marketing and publicity for The Dark Knight would be the Mona Lisa, but in this case Mona died before her portrait was finished, which he used to his advantage. There's no other explanation why the amounts of hype and the amounts of praise are equal in magnitude for such an uneven, plotless, ugly film.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 5:37:54 AM   
JoeyPottr


Posts: 2066
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I think overrated means that the movie or actor, whatever doesn't live up to all the hype or publicity. Yes, it is a criticism in itself to say that something is overrated, it's definetly not a compliment.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 8:37:17 AM   
matty_b


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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
quote:

I think overrated means that the movie or actor, whatever doesn't live up to all the hype or publicity. Yes, it is a criticism in itself to say that something is overrated, it's definetly not a compliment.


I disagree. Whether a film has hype or publicity has nothing at all to do with the quality of the film. Nothing. When the director is constructing the shots, the composer is scoring it or the actors are honing their performances the notion of "hype" is an utterly abstract and useless concept. Hype is something that attaches itself to a film, from a completely different area than the creative process which created it.

It's therefore, in my eyes, not a valid criticism.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 10:12:43 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
I see no problem with the word used properly.

Godfather was top of the Empire poll. It is 2nd on IMDB. While a good film, the implications of those votes and others like it, to me, mean the film is overrated. IE considered far higher in the pantheon of films than it deserves to be, IMO, i.e., having considered my opinion of the film independently and then considering that in the context of a seeming general opinion. And it's overrated. IMO.

Calling it lazy is lazy unless you can actually prove the person who says it hasn't used the term properly.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 10:18:27 AM   
kaner316


Posts: 1778
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From: Not Wales !!!
saying something is over-rated is a very lazy way to say that you had a personal reaction to something that was different to popular opinion. to me, it has ceased to be an opinion i take any account of, because every film there ever has has been at some point over-rated to someone. especially on online forums, it's such a throw-away line, and to use it in it's most popular context, could be seen as disrespectful.

for example, poster A says "I loved this film", then poster B comes on and says "nah mate, that was completely over-rated". is this not flat out telling the first guy his opinion is rubbish? film is so personally subjective that it can be hard to brush negatives aside, especially when it's so easy to argue that something is crap in absolute terms, yet to argue something is good requires justification.

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 10:21:44 AM   
Frank Castle


Posts: 2688
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From: Parts Unknown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stewie_Griffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

Overrated means something isnt as good as many people make it out to be.In terms of films,its those ones that are supposedly brilliant but are in fact,quite shite.

Case in point,films like the LOTR trilogy,Casino Royale,and Pirates of the caribbean:The curse of the black pearl,are all hugely popular but are in fact,shite.

Hope that clears it up.


Christ, you're predictable.


Predictable but right

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 11:06:24 AM   
max314


Posts: 2744
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From: London
When people say something is "overrated" it simply means that the commentator believes the film in question enjoys more praise than they feel it deserves.

Can it be seen as a lazy critique?  Sure.  But then, so is a lot of the unsubstantiated stuff I read here.  "It's shit" isn't any more enlightening than "it's overrated".  At least the latter has fractionally more substance to it.

Besides, people only really get bent out of shape by comments like this if the film being criticised is one they like.


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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 11:08:12 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I see no problem with the word used properly.

Godfather was top of the Empire poll. It is 2nd on IMDB. While a good film, the implications of those votes and others like it, to me, mean the film is overrated. IE considered far higher in the pantheon of films than it deserves to be, IMO, i.e., having considered my opinion of the film independently and then considering that in the context of a seeming general opinion. And it's overrated. IMO.

Calling it lazy is lazy unless you can actually prove the person who says it hasn't used the term properly.


Certainly agree with this and in my intial post I even highlight when it can be used in a way that fits. However if the whole review amounts to "X film is overrated" then what else can we go on?

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 11:10:13 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

When people say something is "overrated" it simply means that the commentator believes the film in question enjoys more praise than they feel it deserves.

Can it be seen as a lazy critique?  Sure.  But then, so is a lot of the unsubstantiated stuff I read here.  "It's shit" isn't any more enlightening than "it's overrated".  At least the latter has fractionally more substance to it.

Besides, people only really get bent out of shape by comments like this if the film being criticised is one they like.



Well I would say "Its shit" is at least a comment on the film itself by a reviewer.

Being critical of a film because it is "overrated" seems to me to be taking more than the film itself into account.

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Post #: 22
RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 12:08:02 PM   
BobM70


Posts: 958
Joined: 29/12/2005
Film can only be called overrated when it has gained a certain status. Like in boxoffice numbers, in time or in genre. When a film reaches that certain status there will always be people who disagree (either before or after reaching the status, as in case of TDK). At that point people can use the word overrated (as in: not worthy of it's status). But people just calling something overrated, just to be different or to have an excuse, is unfair and lazy.
Then there is a certain circle of people who are so allergic to commercialism, to masses and to flocking in a large group, they refuse to like anything that has gained a certain status.

But when argumented in a right way, people can use the word overrated as often as the want.


Bob

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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 12:41:21 PM   
M


Posts: 1632
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Kilwinnkie
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

This comes from a few posts made in the Unpopular Opinion thread where there was a brief discussion as to why it appears that a film being "overrated” somehow constitutes a criticism of the film itself.

A film being underrated I can understand. There are plenty of films out there that haven't been seen by a wider audience, but the reason that they are underrated tends to be because they are good films. An example I would give is a little known film called Bunny Lake is Missing. A brilliant physiological thriller that needs to be seen by more people. Underrated in terms of film criticism is used in this case in the positive and is used generally to enhance. But, that a film is little seen by people should make no impact on the person watching the film.

But overrated is something which I have never been able to grasp, especially when I read one line reviews like

"The Godfather is overrated”


I'm a bit confused as to how you grasp that, but not the inverse. 

Surely saying something is underrated is just as well understood as something being overrated.  The former means that the film is of a quality which you believe deserves more praise because of X, Y or Z, while the latter means that the film is of a quality which you believe deserves less praise because of X, Y, or Z.

Is it more the fact that overrated is used too much as a one-word  review, like in your Godfathger example?  'Cause I'd say there are as many examples of people using underrated in the same way...


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RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 12:54:23 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

This comes from a few posts made in the Unpopular Opinion thread where there was a brief discussion as to why it appears that a film being "overrated” somehow constitutes a criticism of the film itself.

A film being underrated I can understand. There are plenty of films out there that haven't been seen by a wider audience, but the reason that they are underrated tends to be because they are good films. An example I would give is a little known film called Bunny Lake is Missing. A brilliant physiological thriller that needs to be seen by more people. Underrated in terms of film criticism is used in this case in the positive and is used generally to enhance. But, that a film is little seen by people should make no impact on the person watching the film.

But overrated is something which I have never been able to grasp, especially when I read one line reviews like

"The Godfather is overrated”


I'm a bit confused as to how you grasp that, but not the inverse. 

Surely saying something is underrated is just as well understood as something being overrated.  The former means that the film is of a quality which you believe deserves more praise because of X, Y or Z, while the latter means that the film is of a quality which you believe deserves less praise because of X, Y, or Z.

Is it more the fact that overrated is used too much as a one-word  review, like in your Godfathger example?  'Cause I'd say there are as many examples of people using underrated in the same way...



I suppose the word "underrated" is used to complement a film i.e "The Midnight Meat Train is an underrated horror film" - the word is used as a compliement on the quailty of the film. Its little seen and should have more recognition. By its very nature "underrated" is a personal response to a film, as not many other people have seen it.

"Overrated"  on the other hand seems to be based on a consesus and a wider reaction to a film.Take Serenity for instance. Did the reaction of the Browncoats online affect how people reviewed it? I would bet good money a lot of online reviews called that film "overrated" and that was a response to hype that was on the internet.

Another point that was raised was how do you measure how a film is "overrated" -does it only apply to the films that appear on the top 250 rated list on IMDB? How long do you wait before using the term? I don't see how you can tell if a summer blockbuster that has just been released is overrated or not. The amount of hype and interest in the film is nautrally going to be huge. Surely you need to have some time from release before considering what the general consensus is?  

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Post #: 25
RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 1:05:52 PM   
M


Posts: 1632
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Kilwinnkie
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I suppose the word "underrated" is used to complement a film i.e "The Midnight Meat Train is an underrated horror film" - the word is used as a compliement on the quailty of the film. Its little seen and should have more recognition. By its very nature "underrated" is a personal response to a film, as not many other people have seen it.

"Overrated"  on the other hand seems to be based on a consesus and a wider reaction to a film.Take Serenity for instance. Did the reaction of the Browncoats online affect how people reviewed it? I would bet good money a lot of online reviews called that film "overrated" and that was a response to hype that was on the internet.


Both are personal reactions based on wider consensus (I'd argue).  Underrated would be based on a personal reaction to the film then realising that not many people praise it, while overrated is also a personal reaction to the film then realising that too many people paraise it!

Another point that was raised was how do you measure how a film is "overrated" -does it only apply to the films that appear on the top 250 rated list on IMDB? How long do you wait before using the term? I don't see how you can tell if a summer blockbuster that has just been released is overrated or not. The amount of hype and interest in the film is nautrally going to be huge. Surely you need to have some time from release before considering what the general consensus is?  


I see where you're coming from here, but is it not getting at more general points about how we consider films to be 'rated'?  That is, big box office v. critical acclaim.  A film that disappeared at the box office but won all the plaudits could be labelled as either underrated or overrated by someone, depending on what measure they were applying.  The inverse is true of a box office smash that was rubbished in the reviews; either underated or overrated could be used. 

I'm going to sit on the fence and say it all depends on context!


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Post #: 26
RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 4:55:25 PM   
somekindof_battery


Posts: 1608
Joined: 23/2/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I see no problem with the word used properly.

Godfather was top of the Empire poll. It is 2nd on IMDB. While a good film, the implications of those votes and others like it, to me, mean the film is overrated. IE considered far higher in the pantheon of films than it deserves to be, IMO, i.e., having considered my opinion of the film independently and then considering that in the context of a seeming general opinion. And it's overrated. IMO.

Calling it lazy is lazy unless you can actually prove the person who says it hasn't used the term properly.


But there's always going to be films held in high regard and for a good reason. It doesn't mean the film is not as good as people claim, that it's overrated.

My annoyance is when people just throw the phrase out there but don't explain why they dislike a film.

"The Godfather is overrated because...it drags on too long, a sequence or two could have been cut out that detract from the films main plot or just slow the movie down".

That's an example but to me it still does not justify the the overrated tag.


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(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 27
RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 5:05:49 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
A film tops the best films ever made poll - and you point out it isn't. By the basic definition, you've just agreed it is overrated I think.

And you're confusing you're disagreeing with my opinion it is overrated with the point being that I know what I mean when I say it, I think. The first part isn't the discussion.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to somekindof_battery)
Post #: 28
RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 5:17:29 PM   
somekindof_battery


Posts: 1608
Joined: 23/2/2008
Yeah probably but i can't stand the term even if i do find myself using it on occasion. 

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(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 29
RE: Overrated - What does it mean? - 14/4/2009 10:24:20 PM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Well I would say "Its shit" is at least a comment on the film itself by a reviewer.

Being critical of a film because it is "overrated" seems to me to be taking more than the film itself into account.


Nah, I think it's a perfectly reasonable comment to make.  Someone's aware of the status of a particular film within a given community and says they feel the film is undeserving of such status.  Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.

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Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 30
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