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RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 11:43:05 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5064
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

Didn't The Island also have a sequence of 2 people falling down from a skyscraper?



My comments re- the falling man, were due to the specific nature of the scene in T3. It looks just like it, and thats what I thought of.


Fair enough, but that doesn't mean it's what Bay was trying to evoke, which that part of your review seemed to suggest.
Also, while I'd imagine your points about the humour in this film are bang on, I don't agree that all jokes about homosexuality and piles have no place in mainstream cinema full-stop - just ones that aren't funny.

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Post #: 241
RE: Transformers 3 - 28/6/2011 12:07:28 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvet

If its as good as 1 and 2, itl b great. Transformers 1 was brill, i thought Revenge of the Fallen was really good too, cant wait to c 3.
If people didnt like 1 and 2, doubt theyl like 3.
Gona c Green Lantern on Thurs, is it worth watchn in 3D?


Definitely, thats the one thing I would recommend about this film.

(in reply to velvet)
Post #: 242
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 12:10:26 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


Fair enough, but that doesn't mean it's what Bay was trying to evoke, which that part of your review seemed to suggest.
Also, while I'd imagine your points about the humour in this film are bang on, I don't agree that all jokes about homosexuality and piles have no place in mainstream cinema full-stop - just ones that aren't funny.


Okay, so jokes about gay people are okay as long as they make you laugh? Great to hear. There's been a bit of debate about this particular issue in the comments section on my own site, with many despairing at the "normalising" of homophobia and casual racism thats encouraged by these kind of films.


(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 243
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 12:10:48 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
The Empire review is up. Two Stars.

(in reply to adambatman82)
Post #: 244
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 12:18:51 PM   
tommypocket


Posts: 353
Joined: 13/2/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


Fair enough, but that doesn't mean it's what Bay was trying to evoke, which that part of your review seemed to suggest.
Also, while I'd imagine your points about the humour in this film are bang on, I don't agree that all jokes about homosexuality and piles have no place in mainstream cinema full-stop - just ones that aren't funny.


Okay, so jokes about gay people are okay as long as they make you laugh? Great to hear. There's been a bit of debate about this particular issue in the comments section on my own site, with many despairing at the "normalising" of homophobia and casual racism thats encouraged by these kind of films.






That's not what he said now was it? Homosexuality is not the same as homophobia - jokes about homosexuality, race and religion are fine as long as they don't discriminate or incur hatred by suggesting inferiority... however, I'm imagining a film that's as subtle as a brick like this one won't get that balance right.


_____________________________

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Twitter drivel - @tommypocket

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Post #: 245
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 12:19:19 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5064
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


Fair enough, but that doesn't mean it's what Bay was trying to evoke, which that part of your review seemed to suggest.
Also, while I'd imagine your points about the humour in this film are bang on, I don't agree that all jokes about homosexuality and piles have no place in mainstream cinema full-stop - just ones that aren't funny.


Okay, so jokes about gay people are okay as long as they make you laugh? Great to hear. There's been a bit of debate about this particular issue in the comments section on my own site, with many despairing at the "normalising" of homophobia and casual racism thats encouraged by these kind of films.




Why do you assume a joke about homosexuality has to be offensive?

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Post #: 246
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 12:20:05 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

Why do you assume a joke about homosexuality has to be offensive?


I'm not assuming anything, I'm referring to the jokes at the centre of this film, which were offensive.

(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 247
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 12:22:22 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: tommypocket

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean it's what Bay was trying to evoke, which that part of your review seemed to suggest.
Also, while I'd imagine your points about the humour in this film are bang on, I don't agree that all jokes about homosexuality and piles have no place in mainstream cinema full-stop - just ones that aren't funny.


Okay, so jokes about gay people are okay as long as they make you laugh? Great to hear. There's been a bit of debate about this particular issue in the comments section on my own site, with many despairing at the "normalising" of homophobia and casual racism thats encouraged by these kind of films.



That's not what he said now was it? Homosexuality is not the same as homophobia - jokes about homosexuality, race and religion are fine as long as they don't discriminate or incur hatred by suggesting inferiority... however, I'm imagining a film that's as subtle as a brick like this one won't get that balance right.



He said ones that "aren't funny", not ones "that don't discriminate or incur hatred by suggesting inferiority". The OP should have been clearer in his point.

(in reply to tommypocket)
Post #: 248
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 12:35:09 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5064
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

Why do you assume a joke about homosexuality has to be offensive?


I'm not assuming anything, I'm referring to the jokes at the centre of this film, which were offensive.


Yeah but forget about Transformers 3, I'm disagreeing with your point in the review that jokes about gay people (and piles - I can't remember how to spell the H word) have no place in mainstream cinema in 2011. Just because a joke is concerned with someone who is gay, or gay people/culture in general, doesn't make it offensive (though the ones in Transformers 3 may well be).
And by 'ones that aren't funny' I meant the types of joke you mentioned (crass, based on hatred, inferiority etc).

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Post #: 249
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 12:35:58 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1106
Joined: 14/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: bobatim

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler


quote:

ORIGINAL: tommypocket

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

So basically what were saying here is 'Michael Bay can't direct and dumb models can't act'? Fucking shock horror!!


I think it stems beyond that. Poor direction and shitty acting can easily be overlooked in a film of this ilk, but what we're talking about here extends further in to darker, morally dubious areas. It's Right-wing propoganda, with a really fucked up attitude towards some of the most distressing things in America's history. It has a nasty undertone, I really don't trust its intentions. Granted, this may sound a tad hyperbolic, but I don't want to be too clear in what I'm saying for fear of spoiling anything. But yes, its a mess of a film.


A tad hyperbolic indeed.


Like I said, hyperbole was necessary so that I didn't refer to anything to explicitly, for fear of ruining things for anyone that might actually want to see it. I was being conscientious.


Haven't seen the film yet but I'm taking your review with a huge amount of salt - in particular the final paragraph:

"Which leads me to my final, most damning point. At one point in the film, Bay evokes the image of the "falling man”, one of the key visual images of the events of 9/11, as a gang of US Army 'grunts' skydive across a semi-post-apocalyptic skyline. Crass doesn't even begin to cover it, with the sequence unforgivable insensitive and a new low for Bay. It's exploitative nonsense of the highest order, and not at all hyperbolic to suggest that it reaches a level of vile thus far unequalled in the 21st century mainstream cinema."

Sorry, but this is ridiculous - this is proper tabloid journalism; putting 2 and 2 together to make 5 in the interest of making a hyperbolic, outraged point. Just becasue an image 'reminds' you of something doesn't mean it's offensive. A dozen men skydiving past a sky-scraper is a world away from the 'falling man' - the documentary of that 'story' in itself was a crass piece of exploitative journalism, singling out one victim from thousands and then scrutinsing and hypothesising over his final actions. Making a link to this just proves you're searching for these things.

There may well be right-wing, pro-military content in this film (hell, I expect it from Bay), but making the above point your over-riding summary completely negates the validity of your prior argument I'm afraid.


I refused to read the full review and was right to do so.

Totally agree with you tommypocket. Get a grip man you are the exactly the same as how you are portraying the filmakers and I quote "fucked up attitude towards some of the most distressing things in America's history"

Do you really hate Bay that much or do you have the same opinion of all films post 9/11 with burning buildings, collapsing skyscrapers, crashing planes, skydivers ???

Yes Bay might have put all the above in, infact i'm sure he has but then it is a massive battle in a city in a film about warring alien robots !

You see where Im going with this ?




Worst. Post. Ever.

How can you presume to criticise a review if you won't even read it all? For all you know, the above excerpts may have been taken completely out of context. Also, how can you defend a film if you haven't even seen it yet? Adambatman82 has, and he has criticised it based on what he felt the imagery represented. A fairly well informed opinion I'd say. Also without seeing it how can you say he's wrong? Yes, there have been plenty of films featuring skydiving, falling buildings and innercity battles, but how do you know without seeing these particular scenes in this particular film that on this occasion they aren't reflective of 09/11. The answer is you don't.




Like is said found his comments on this forum prior to him posting the link to his review and after came across as being
over exaggerated so why then would I would I read his review, especially if I feel I will not like the content. We select movies that we see at the cinema much in the same way, we form an opinion however uninformed and make a decision on wether we want to see it or not, sometimes rightly and wrongly.

I cant admit I may have egg on my face by making comments when I havent seen the film, but do I need to see a film before I can decide if I like or dislike the content of someones comments ?

After reading the review which I will admit for the most part seems genuine and honest its the the last few paragraphs, and the all the 9/11 references I dislike. Having seen the imagery I would say the reviewer himself is taking them out of context in finding a relation, yes they the may look slightly similar but what else ? And this is where the the reviewer seems unimformed, he even admits later hes never seen the falling man documentary and states himself.

"it looks just like it, and thats what I thought of" hadly informed

For me the bigger issue is why do critics always look for soom hidden meaning or "message" especially in film of this nature i.e. lacking in plot and character, devoid of any real meaning, SFX driven, made for masses and shamelessly made for the $$$$ As he said Bay is a hack, is he even capable ??

I apologise for dragging this on but as you can see from my posts Im pretty shit at getting my point accross !

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 28/6/2011 1:02:45 PM >

(in reply to bobatim)
Post #: 250
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 2:56:13 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I cant admit I may have egg on my face by making comments when I havent seen the film, but do I need to see a film before I can decide if I like or dislike the content of someones comments ?


I think you do yes, especially in a situation where my judgment is being called in to question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler
After reading the review which I will admit for the most part seems genuine and honest its the the last few paragraphs, and the all the 9/11 references I dislike. Having seen the imagery I would say the reviewer himself is taking them out of context in finding a relation, yes they the may look slightly similar but what else ? And this is where the the reviewer seems unimformed, he even admits later hes never seen the falling man documentary and states himself.

"it looks just like it, and thats what I thought of" hadly informed



How is that not informed? It's informed by the film at hand, and the photograph "The Falling Man". It is my summation, and my opinion that the shot in question recalls the photograph. A review is an opinion piece, there's not really any point arguing over this. I can appreciate it if you dislike the 9/11 comment, but that is sincerely what I took from the film, and there's very little I can do about that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

For me the bigger issue is why do critics always look for soom hidden meaning or "message" especially in film of this nature i.e. lacking in plot and character, devoid of any real meaning, SFX driven, made for masses and shamelessly made for the $$$$ As he said Bay is a hack, is he even capable ??


I don't think the message is particularly "hidden". I'm prepared to take a blockbuster at face value, but if the filmmaker is throwing out unusual political rhetoric then I have every right to question it. Take a look around the site, and you'll see that I have no agenda. I've reviewed every major blockbuster positively this year (including Green Lantern), and don't feel any particular need to point out my own personal political objections in 90% of the films I write about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I apologise for dragging this on but as you can see from my posts Im pretty shit at getting my point accross !


No need to apologise mate.

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)
Post #: 251
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 2:59:22 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


Yeah but forget about Transformers 3, I'm disagreeing with your point in the review that jokes about gay people (and piles - I can't remember how to spell the H word) have no place in mainstream cinema in 2011. Just because a joke is concerned with someone who is gay, or gay people/culture in general, doesn't make it offensive (though the ones in Transformers 3 may well be).
And by 'ones that aren't funny' I meant the types of joke you mentioned (crass, based on hatred, inferiority etc).


I can't think of any positive examples of "good" gay jokes, can you give us a few so that I have an idea of what it is your saying? I mean that sincerely, I'm not looking for an argument. I just can't think of any times that a gay joke has gone down well, if you'd pardon the expression,
in a mainstream movie produced by a creative crew comprised of heterosexual males.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 28/6/2011 3:00:47 PM >

(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 252
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 4:04:45 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2615
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
Despite being far too long, and having some serious flaws, I still managed to get some enjoyment out of Revenge of the Fallen, not much, but some. So, despite the mostly negative reviews I'm still willing to jump in with an open mind.

Will certainly be intersting to see if I have the same connection of imagery that adam felt, and if it is as strong a link as you suggest, it's be intersting to see how people react. Having said that, in the few reviews I've read it doesn't appear to have struck a chord with many others, although 9/11 imagery is always going to crop up when Bay decides to topple skyscrapers. It certainly seems to be dividing critics so far. Am looking forward to the 3D in this too, as the use of it in the trailers I saw was fooking stunning. As mentioned, Part 2 was far, far too long, so I was gutted to see that this one runs even longer. I guess the best I can hope for is a decent enough couple of hours entertainment. I may even dare to venture into the Film Review thread when I've seen it... or sanity will take hold and I'll steer well fucking clear. Good review though adam.

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Post #: 253
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 4:14:42 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005
What I don't understand is that I thought Transformers 1 was crap, Transformers 2 was totally dreadful and amongst the worse blockbusters I've ever seen...and yet there's something about part 3 that makes me want to see it.

I always like adambatman's reviews and he's normally spot on with his opinions but I'm not sure I can be deterred from giving yet more money to the franchise! Like Porntrooper I'm hoping for a last minute sanity check as I just know it's going to be utter arse!



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Post #: 254
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 4:33:38 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1106
Joined: 14/1/2009
surely as a critic and film reviewer, you would accept that a person reading a review or a reviewers comments regarding a film is going to make judgements on this and on the movie its self. Isn't this what reviews are intended for ?

What else would be the point of reading persons review or his comments before they have seen a film if you cannot question the reviewers judgement or opinion, how then can one form an opinion and make judgments on wether or not they should see the movie.

Isnt that the point in writing a review especially before the film is out on general release.

Reagrding uniformed about the imagery yes you are informed but no more well informed as the next man as the guy who posted was making out you were, and I wasn't. Yes you have seen the film but the imagery in question is there for us all to see.

My issue on that wasnt really with you but the guy who posted it, I could have worded that one in the previous post better !

I will say this though I now really want to see this film Ha Ha

(in reply to adambatman82)
Post #: 255
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 6:16:34 PM   
bobatim


Posts: 5609
Joined: 8/4/2006
From: The Killbot Factory!
quote:

Like is said found his comments on this forum prior to him posting the link to his review and after came across as being
over exaggerated so why then would I would I read his review, especially if I feel I will not like the content.We select movies that we see at the cinema much in the same way, we form an opinion however uninformed and make a decision on wether we want to see it or not, sometimes rightly and wrongly.


But his comments were taken from his review, so yes you do need to read it before you criticise them, otherwise you're taking them out of context.

quote:

I cant admit I may have egg on my face by making comments when I havent seen the film, but do I need to see a film before I can decide if I like or dislike the content of someones comments ?


Yes, when those comments from his review of the film, you do. Especially when you're using them with the distinct purpose of flaming him. Which you went on to do in the review section, when you claim his views aren't genuine; a completely baseless accusation. It renders your point moot, more on that later.

quote:


After reading the review which I will admit for the most part seems genuine and honest its the the last few paragraphs, and the all the 9/11 references I dislike. Having seen the imagery I would say the reviewer himself is taking them out of context in finding a relation, yes they the may look slightly similar but what else ? And this is where the the reviewer seems unimformed, he even admits later hes never seen the falling man documentary and states himself.
"it looks just like it, and thats what I thought of" hadly informed


Why do you keep accusing it of not being genuine? He saw the film, formed an opinion (make note of that word, it's important) and wrote that opinion down. What is disingeniuos about that? He admits to not having seen that particular documentary but thats irrelavent. The footage that the documentary is about, was all over the news for weeks after 9/11 so yes he is informed. You haven't seen the film so you can't say whether the parallells he draws are correct or not. He has seen the 'falling man' footage and hes seen Transformers 3, how much more informed does he need to be?

quote:


For me the bigger issue is why do critics always look for soom hidden meaning or "message" especially in film of this nature i.e. lacking in plot and character, devoid of any real meaning, SFX driven, made for masses and shamelessly made for the $$$$ As he said Bay is a hack, is he even capable ??


Because that's their job? Because filmmakers use the medium for that specific purpose? Because thats what Micheal Bay promised from this film?

quote:


I apologise for dragging this on but as you can see from my posts Im pretty shit at getting my point accross !


Don't backtrack with such a pathetic excuse. You made you're point very clear, you've repeated and revealed your intent again and again. The problem is that it's such a poor point with nothing to back it and then when you use it to flame the reviewer by comparing it to empires review in the review thread, as if only empire can give a valid opinion, just makes it even weaker. You're not sorry to keep dragging it on. You're blatantly trolling.


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Post #: 256
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 7:15:31 PM   
Scruffybobby

 

Posts: 4328
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: My House
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Seems to be getting some genuinely decent buzz. Fair enough.


Currently sitting at 64% on Rotten Tomatoes, with 7 fresh reviews out of 11. Interestingly tho both of the "Top Critic" reviews slated it. Most British critics only saw the film tonight, with the consensus from Twitter split down the middle. I predict a sea of three star reviews, down to 2 when the DVD hits.


Now down to 34%, although it does state that this is not yet a consensus . The rating is from 57 reviews - anyone know how many form a "consensus"?


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Post #: 257
RE: Total Film - 28/6/2011 8:13:39 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scruffybobby

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Seems to be getting some genuinely decent buzz. Fair enough.


Currently sitting at 64% on Rotten Tomatoes, with 7 fresh reviews out of 11. Interestingly tho both of the "Top Critic" reviews slated it. Most British critics only saw the film tonight, with the consensus from Twitter split down the middle. I predict a sea of three star reviews, down to 2 when the DVD hits.


Now down to 34%, although it does state that this is not yet a consensus . The rating is from 57 reviews - anyone know how many form a "consensus"?



Not sure how many it needs for a consensus, but a major blockbuster like this usually ends up with around 220 reviews on RT.

(in reply to Scruffybobby)
Post #: 258
RE: Total Film - 17/2/2012 11:47:26 AM   
primebhoy


Posts: 941
Joined: 7/5/2008
From: Scotland
Shall we do some Transformers 4 chat in this thread, or start a new one?

What do people make of the news that they will be 're-booting' albeit with Bay still in the hotseat. I was excited until i read bay was still on board. The man just does not seem capable of making a decent film with a story which flows smoothly from start to finish. Watch TF3 the other night and its all over the place. The Robots get totally sidelined and the human characters are awful.

Hopefully this new one will start a-fresh on the human side, without having to tell us where the transformers came from again.

I dont want to see my favourite tv/film memories as a kid be forever ruined on the big screen. I still have faith that something decent can be achieved, tho not much!

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Post #: 259
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