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RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 22/2/2007 6:06:31 PM   
ednamode


Posts: 2566
Joined: 27/7/2006
From: Milan, darling, Milan
What the hell is everybodys problem, Quentin Tarantino has made some of the greatest films, I dont know why people cant just relax and enjoy something for what it is anymore, all this crap analysing films for the sake of it is really annoying, in Kill Bill I didnt notice any of that stuff those papers talked about, I just enjoyed the film, sure it was violent but it was pretty god damn funny violence with a great story to follow, its not supposed to take this much effort to see a Tarantino movie, everythings there on the screen, take it or leave it. You're not supposed to look for someone to blame just cause you didnt like the movie.

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Post #: 61
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 25/2/2007 12:36:04 PM   
BobM70


Posts: 958
Joined: 29/12/2005
Westsider:

Reservoir Dogs made a huge impact on its release and it's easy to see why. It was new and bold and shocking, no doubt, and it was the work of an original talent who was impossible to ignore. But that doesn't mean that it's a good film. Tarantino's dialogue was impressive, at times, and the scene you mention is one of his best, but his approach has its limitations, and those limitations are more significant than his admirers are prepared to concede. You suggest that his focus on banality was a new way of illuminating character. Well, maybe so, but it only works within a narrow range. Essentially all the characters must be on the same wavelength. They must all be Tarantino guys. So Pink is a "snivelling weasel”, sure enough: he's the snivelling weasel Tarantino guy. And Blonde is the "cocky and cool” Tarantino guy. And so on with the others. This is not "character driven dialogue”, it's dialogue driven character. His characters never really break free of their writer: they remain too closely tethered to his personality. Fine for your first film, perhaps, but you can't go on like that for ever. And that is why Jackie Brown was important. It showed Tarantino developing his talent, with a little help from Elmore Leonard. But Tarantino has now turned his back on that, and returned with a vengeance to the film-geek enthusiasms of his youth. I believe that this amounts to a failure of nerve, and that his career will suffer irreparably as a result.

I called Tarantino's work hateful, and I'm tempted to cite the whole of his first film as evidence. However, the torture scene on its own should be evidence enough. Its impact was enormous. It's genuinely shocking, and genuinely hard to watch. And it's unforgivable. Not because of the violence itself, but because of the way it's presented. A torture scene that's part musical number, part comedy routine is certainly bold. It shows Tarantino at his most original. It also shows him at his worst. How so? Because the skill and daring involved don't excuse the hollowness and glibness of the exercise. You could call it black comedy, but that would just be making polite excuses. The humour here is cruel, and it's a cruelty that sniggers at sadism. Tarantino's approach isn't just pitiless, it holds pity in contempt.

Pulp Fiction is not so rancid, but it is long and often tedious. It's sometimes amusing, sure enough, and the Vincent and Jules banter has a certain slick wit, but it's all so shallow, and so hard to care about. In its defence you trot out the old critical warhorse "redemption”. Well OK, redemption then. Perhaps Butch is redeemed, from something or other, but Butch is a dull character, so it hardly matters. And even if we switch our focus to the more interesting Jules, things don't get any better. Jules has a road-to-Damascus conversion, revealed at the end of the film. He'll abandon his wicked ways, and "walk the earth” like Kung Fu. It provides an ending, and some of the film's wittier dialogue, but you can't take it seriously. There's no depth to the character, so who cares?

Pulp Fiction projects a superficial cool, and it has great music. But it has just a few good scenes, and it goes on for two and a half hours. That may be your idea of a classic, but it won't do for me.

Jackie Brown was different, and it seemed like a transitional film. It was as if Tarantino was trying out another writer's characters in preparation for a change in his own. Well, maybe he was, but it never happened. Instead we got Kill Bill. Oh well.


Admittedly the critics loved Kill Bill. It's one of the best reviewed films of recent years. But the critics aren't always right, and there are signs that its reputation is dipping already. The decision to follow it with Grindhouse may speed up the process. For me watching Kill Bill was an alienating experience. I couldn't sustain any interest in the film, even on the most basic level. It was a boy's-bedroom-wall-poster movie, cursed with a truly cloying geekiness, and it was almost unwatchable. I'd happily paid to see Tarantino's previous films, despite my reservations, because I believed that he mattered and I needed to see what he was doing. Kill Bill put a stop to that. If that was what he was up to then I could safely leave him to his admirers. So Grindhouse will be the first Tarantino film that I don't see. I suspect that it will be for others too; especially those old enough to have seen Reservoir Dogs on its first release.




-----------------


I think this one of the sanest and well argumented posts I have ever read. And I almost completely agree. Except for Pulp Fiction, of which I think is a genuine classic. I don't hate the guy, but after Pulp he just never recovered. Jackie Brown is an underrated film and after my initial disappointment I see now he had something there, and like you said, I hoped he would evolve from than on...

Tarantino has to get his head out of his own (and Rodrigues') arse and start to make something worthwhile.

Bob


< Message edited by BobM70 -- 25/2/2007 1:44:30 PM >


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RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 25/2/2007 2:24:52 PM   
westsider

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/12/2006
quote:



I think this one of the sanest and well argumented posts I have ever read. And I almost completely agree. Except for Pulp Fiction, of which I think is a genuine classic. I don't hate the guy, but after Pulp he just never recovered. Jackie Brown is an underrated film and after my initial disappointment I see now he had something there, and like you said, I hoped he would evolve from than on...

Tarantino has to get his head out of his own (and Rodrigues') arse and start to make something worthwhile.

Bob



Cheers!

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Post #: 63
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 25/2/2007 2:49:47 PM   
TheManWithNoShame


Posts: 6767
Joined: 1/8/2006
Well thank you westsider for that well-reasoned post, I apologise for anything insulting in my first post, although I still disagree with the amount of hatred for Tarantino.
Like Bob, I really do think Pulp Fiction is a classic, and I also agree with some of the things in your post. I too think Reservoir Dogs is overrated, and although I wouldnt say that the film is hateful in the way you put it, there is a glibness that is hard to swallow, and the film gets too wrapped up in dialogue.
Kill Bill  is Tarantino at his worst, and although it works as shallow entertainment, it tries to sneak in every cinematic trick and style in the book that it is weighed down by it. I admire the energy it is all put together with, but it was a massive mistep in my opinion.
I do however think that Tarantino's future shouldnt be judged by it, and I hope that my fears that he'll continue in that way are proved false. As I said, and Bob, Tarantino should pull out his head from his arse, stop pissing about with Rodriguez, and start making proper films again.

(and you are right, Le Cercle Rouge is much more an example of fatalism, as is the excellent Rififi. Id advise you to check out the latter along with Bob le Flambeur)


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Post #: 64
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 25/2/2007 4:52:16 PM   
westsider

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/12/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheManWithNoShame

Well thank you westsider for that well-reasoned post, I apologise for anything insulting in my first post, although I still disagree with the amount of hatred for Tarantino.
Like Bob, I really do think Pulp Fiction is a classic, and I also agree with some of the things in your post. I too think Reservoir Dogs is overrated, and although I wouldnt say that the film is hateful in the way you put it, there is a glibness that is hard to swallow, and the film gets too wrapped up in dialogue.
Kill Bill  is Tarantino at his worst, and although it works as shallow entertainment, it tries to sneak in every cinematic trick and style in the book that it is weighed down by it. I admire the energy it is all put together with, but it was a massive mistep in my opinion.
I do however think that Tarantino's future shouldnt be judged by it, and I hope that my fears that he'll continue in that way are proved false. As I said, and Bob, Tarantino should pull out his head from his arse, stop pissing about with Rodriguez, and start making proper films again.

(and you are right, Le Cercle Rouge is much more an example of fatalism, as is the excellent Rififi. Id advise you to check out the latter along with Bob le Flambeur)



Thanks for the reply.  I've already added Rififi to my lovefilm.com rental list.

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Post #: 65
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 25/2/2007 7:57:11 PM   
BobM70


Posts: 958
Joined: 29/12/2005
Now, let's all hug...


Bob


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Post #: 66
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 29/4/2007 12:25:55 PM   
Orbital

 

Posts: 1183
Joined: 18/10/2005
quote:



The problem with the cult of Tarantino is essentially he has created 4 works in 13 years so it's hard to get a grip on where he is going careerwise.




Grindhouse looks like a disaster
Post #: 67
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 29/4/2007 8:15:48 PM   
Tyler_D


Posts: 278
Joined: 15/12/2005
The man can be a brilliantly original director but he simply doesnt produce enough work to prove it. Yes, Pulp Fiction is one of the greatest films ever made, Reservoir Dogs overrated, Jackie Brown underrated and Kill Bill film buff porn but for 15 years of filmmaking the output just isnt their to justify his status. The debacle releases of Kill Bill and then Grindhouse, both split into two, has for me damaged his image and his status as one of cinemas most important directors just isnt justified.

Just look at the not only the output but also the quality of films by his fellow contempary filmmakers in the same space of time, R Scott and Spielberg being two perfect examples! Quentin needs to stop living of his waning post-Pulp Fiction pedestool, start focussing on the talent that got him where he is, and steadily produce some great films. He's a filmmaker, so bloody crack on making films!

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Post #: 68
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 4/5/2007 8:30:24 PM   
Orbital

 

Posts: 1183
Joined: 18/10/2005
The next movie he's getting ready to rip is Big Drunk Hero starring Cheng peipei

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Post #: 69
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 5/5/2007 5:35:41 PM   
curtain twitcher


Posts: 4816
Joined: 9/4/2007
From: The Hotel California
Reservoir Dogs is great! How can you say it's overrated? What about Inglorius Bastards?

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Post #: 70
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 9/5/2007 5:13:14 PM   
Orbital

 

Posts: 1183
Joined: 18/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: curtain twitcher

What about Inglorius Bastards?


What about it ?
Tarantino does a rip/homage on every war film ever made ? sounds like another flop. Plus the damn thing won't be released for ages

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Post #: 71
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 10/5/2007 8:10:38 AM   
matty_b


Posts: 14549
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Reservoir Dogs is very, very good - but the further away we get from it, the less great it seems. It's most successful in the fact that the narrative sprawls away from a few guys in a room taking in back stories both real and imaginary (ponder this - when Roth tells the story about going to the loo when the policemen are there, the tension is palpable - despite the fact it's complete bullshit).
 
However, as with most pop culture dialogue, it's starting to sound increasingly fake and cringeworthy. Kevin Smith's films have the same problem.

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Post #: 72
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 17/7/2007 3:26:54 PM   
punchdrunk


Posts: 7817
Joined: 14/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orbital

quote:

ORIGINAL: curtain twitcher

What about Inglorius Bastards?


What about it ?
Tarantino does a rip/homage on every war film ever made ? sounds like another flop. Plus the damn thing won't be released for ages



I was hoping he would give the script to Tony Scott, who did great stuff with "True Romance" script, Tarantino has been toying with the script for too long and i imagine it may grow creatively stale. 

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Post #: 73
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 17/7/2007 4:50:15 PM   
paul.mccluskey


Posts: 5136
Joined: 15/4/2007
From: Port Glasgow, Scotland, UK
quote:

ORIGINAL: punchdrunk

Tarantino has been toying with the script for too long


That he has.  Apparently he has finished writing the script, but is now converting it into a shooting script as he believes the final script and the shooting script are "two different things" altogether.

quote:

 
ORIGINAL: Orbital

Plus the damn thing won't be released for ages


Yeah, the Weinstein Brothers are the Executive Producers once again.  No doubt Harvey will either cut it in half, cut it into 3 to make a trilogy, or sell it as a mini-series !

< Message edited by paul.mccluskey -- 17/7/2007 4:52:33 PM >

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Post #: 74
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 25/7/2007 11:36:25 PM   
Rumble Jack


Posts: 98
Joined: 29/6/2007
I don't think pop culture dialogue makes a film cringe worthy at all. Tarantino's 'Death Proof' sounds cooler than ever with all its quotes and dotes (no matter how subtle it may be). I think it's my new favourite Tarantino film; it literally is a Grindhouse film but bumped up for the newer generation (while maintaining every breath of grindhouse-esque). The only Tarantino film to be over-rated, I use the term harshly, is Kill Bill. It's wacky, it's strange and it's too different although I loved the Volume 2. I do agree with you to an extent: if pop culture is too strong a motif it can seen commercial, almost pathetic. But Tarantino knows there is a thin line and so he has never crossed it. The split up Kill Bill idea is agreed as well, it's like he's changed. BUT! Grindhouse whether it was split or not just makes me feel even more confident in him, he did what he set out to do and he did it in a fucking brilliant way. People need to stop fans looking over him with ‘Reservoir Dogs’ and ‘Pulp Fiction’ shadows, which won’t help when the see ‘Death Proof’: it’s as perfect as his best work. Hooray!

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Post #: 75
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 28/7/2007 3:03:33 PM   
TomTron


Posts: 874
Joined: 2/10/2006
Quentin Tarantino is a hack with a big head. Pulp Fiction is good, mind.

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Post #: 76
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 30/12/2007 2:37:48 PM   
DanCurley


Posts: 1371
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: London
He's a shite house that couldn't direct a guest to his toilet. Call it a day QT.

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Post #: 77
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 31/12/2007 5:24:19 PM   
Paap28


Posts: 391
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Huddersfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanCurley

He's a shite house that couldn't direct a guest to his toilet. Call it a day QT.


WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT QUENTIN TARANTINO IS MY FAVE DIRECTOR...
 
RESERVOIR DOGS: *****
PULP FICTION: *****
JACKIE BROWN: *****
KILL BILL: ****

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Post #: 78
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 3/1/2008 5:14:57 PM   
DanCurley


Posts: 1371
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paap28

WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT QUENTIN TARANTINO IS MY FAVE DIRECTOR...
 


Even after the harrowingly weak Death Proof?

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Post #: 79
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 12/1/2008 7:48:49 PM   
obsessive_chick


Posts: 558
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Everywhere
Almost everyone I ask says that Pulp Fiction is their favourite Tarantino film, but I much prefer Reservoir Dogs. I also quite like Kill Bill. He is a fantastic director, but having to focus on how the films fit together sometimes gets in the way of my enjoyment of them. That gets on my nerves occasionally. Also, I'm not entirely on board with his cameos.

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Post #: 80
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 5/4/2008 10:12:40 PM   
ellfid1@hotmail.com

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 27/9/2006
From: Everywhere
quote:

ORIGINAL: obsessive_chick

Almost everyone I ask says that Pulp Fiction is their favourite Tarantino film, but I much prefer Reservoir Dogs.


I have got to agree with that comment because Reservoir dogs is my favourite Tarantino film by far. Can I just say the way you have to try and figure out, What is going on with all the diffrent story lines is the reason his films are good. All they do for me is make me want to watch them again.




< Message edited by ellfid1@hotmail.com -- 5/4/2008 10:26:45 PM >

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Post #: 81
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 14/4/2008 12:43:24 AM   
shawshank prisoner


Posts: 1650
Joined: 20/4/2006
From: Norwich
the first time i watched Death Proof, i thought it was reasonable. the second time i watched it, i developed a hatred for the man that i gladly would have sucked off prior to the viewing  (not really). if Inglorious Bastards is no good then i'll have lost all respect for him.

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Post #: 82
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 14/4/2008 5:13:28 PM   
Stewie_Griffin


Posts: 6968
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: St.Albans, Hertfordshire
Death Proof has two pretty impressive car chases but the rest is just tedious.  The whole Grindhouse concept seemed a little wanky to me, But at least Planet Terror was zippy and fun.

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Post #: 83
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 21/4/2008 7:54:10 PM   
Dantes Inferno


Posts: 5887
Joined: 27/10/2007
From: Norway
Wow, lots of Tarantino-hate here.

Can't see why you all hate Kill Bill. To me, it's entertaining in the same way Raiders Of The Lost Ark is entertaining. Not terribly deep in substance, but what a jolly good fun! It's so wellmade most people don't notice it. Take the scene where The Bride looks at Hanzo's swords, for example. The scene has been edited so that the song in the background will hit its break exactly when Hanzo throws the baseball. Look at it again and see. It's a small little thing, but it's just so... perfect. The song wasn't written for the film, so it's a pretty good feat.

I mean just look at this, it's so perfect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4gPlkwN2NU

Kill Bill has great fight sequences, great dialog, fantastic visuals. I can understand if you're not too keen on watching it, but saying it is garbage almost insults me.

< Message edited by Dantes Inferno -- 21/4/2008 7:58:44 PM >


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Post #: 84
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 1/5/2008 8:19:27 PM   
Sadonumspa.


Posts: 108
Joined: 28/2/2008
From: Hell
Maybe it is hate maybe it isn't.

I think a lot of the comments are of a disapointed nature, peolple are rightly dissapointed with Tarrantino's downturn in quality especially with the culmination of death proof ( which i loved, alone and as one with grindhouse ), which seems to be a paean to himself and rodriguez.  Wether you like him or not, he set the bar too high, and possibly thought a little to much of himself.

Myself I love his films, but I can see the critisism he recieves as a fair point, at the end of the day its all about opinions.

Res Dogs 9/10
Pulp 10/10
Jacki 8/10
KB 1 & 2 8/10
DP 7/10

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Post #: 85
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 27/5/2008 7:59:34 PM   
jayjayjayjay06


Posts: 33
Joined: 17/9/2006
he is good and makes good movies but he is highly overated as people have said before plus his movies are quite shallow for modern day screening so i think he should just stop now and walk away with what he has got

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Post #: 86
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 29/5/2008 11:41:39 AM   
shane.knight


Posts: 51
Joined: 28/12/2007
He's just read your comment on took on board what you have said. Roger Avary had all the real talent and Quentins off back to the Video store.

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Post #: 87
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 29/5/2008 3:15:15 PM   
cillitbang


Posts: 357
Joined: 11/6/2006
I've actually only seen Jackie Brown and Pulp Fiction, but I'm going to throw some shapes out there on this critical dancefloor.

I saw Pulp Fiction for the first time today and you know what? I was underwhelmed. It's not a bad film, not by a long shot, and what it does right it does so well that it's no wonder people think Tarantino's fantastic. But I'm going to say something about Pulp Fiction, and that is this: It Says Nothing. It has no meaning outside its own universe, it can't be applied in any way to ours and nobody- including the audience- learns anything from it. On top of that, its alternative narrative structure isn't really there for any reason. I don't really think it's full of little stories intertwining; to me it seems like it follows John Travolta and has a subplot about Bruce Willis. Finally, I think it's a little overlong. I said it; it's overlong, and bits of it are boring. Boring to sit through, despite Tarantino trying his best with some tricksy direction. Don't get me wrong: I think it's a cool film. But that's all it is- cool; beyond that, there's nothing to it- it's shallow.

I think Jackie Brown is a much better film. It's sleek, charming and meaningful, with satisfying character arcs and everything. It's a more mature piece, with great performances all round and Pam Grier pulling off an almighty leading lady.


Mind you though, I think that the biggest thing Tarantino has to answer to is that people won't stop trying to emulate his dialogue style- it's driving me crazy! Tarantino and Guy Ritchie are the most copied directors/writers in town.

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Post #: 88
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 29/7/2008 11:42:57 AM   
scarface666brooksy!!


Posts: 3544
Joined: 24/10/2007
From: The Valley of the Wind
I've got all his directorial work on DVD. You know why? Because he's brilliant and hasnt put a foot wrong. That's why

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Post #: 89
RE: QUENTIN TARANTINO - 29/7/2008 1:57:39 PM   
tftrman


Posts: 3192
Joined: 15/11/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: cillitbang

It Says Nothing. It has no meaning outside its own universe, it can't be applied in any way to ours and nobody- including the audience- learns anything from it.


It depends on if QT had intended to say anything with the film, or just make a cool movie that entertained. If it was the latter then he succeeded, besides not all movies have to have a message or life lesson.

I haven't brought myself to watch Deathproof, for me they couldn't even fit any good scenes into the trailer.

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Post #: 90
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