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RE: Jaws - 22/9/2010 8:49:17 AM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
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From: Penicuik - a right shithole
quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: musicfanforever0
The book is a classic and always will be. Jaws should be remade the way it was intended.


Thanks, Now we know why you call yourself a music fan.


^ This made me

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Post #: 151
JAWS - 22/9/2010 10:25:11 AM   
Snake-Eyes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: musicfanforever0

You must be having a laugh! Deep Blue Sea was utter s**t mate. Jaws is 100 miles better and Spielberg's best film, and also 100 times better than the half baked Jurassic Park. All hype and no substance there.


WRONG. (Terminator voice)

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Post #: 152
JAWS - 22/9/2010 10:26:35 AM   
Snake-Eyes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: musicfanforever0
Jaws should be remade the way it was intended.


WHAT THE F**K?! (Bo' Selecta Michael Jackson voice)

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Post #: 153
RE: JAWS - 22/9/2010 4:24:29 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
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From: Penicuik - a right shithole
The way it was intended??  What way would that be? 

If the film had followed the book, it may have been a half-decent, made-for-TV-type thriller, but a fantastic, gripping blockbuster it wouldn't.  The whole Hooper and Ellen affair, plus the Mafia undertones, would have slowed the movie down completely.  The best move was to dump them from the script altogether.

If I remember rightly from my knowledge of all things Jaws, there were additional characters in some drafts of the script (a lobster fisherman?!) who were to become lunch for Bruce. 

No, the film is perfect as is.  No question. 

Interestingly, there was a post by one Eddie McCormack (he of the Liverpool exhibition) on Facebook this morning relating why Jaws could possibly be the greatest film of all time....

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Post #: 154
RE: Jaws - 22/9/2010 4:46:54 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
quote:

ORIGINAL: musicfanforever0

Oh yeah right it was dire {sarcasm} I suppose there's lots of 'dire' books that sell over 20 million copies {before the release of the film}. Fact: The book is a classic and always will be. Jaws should be remade the way it was intended.


From I what I remember the shark just dies of it's own accord for no good reason in the book.  Peter Benchley was livid about Spielberg's ending until he actually saw it and realised it worked brilliantly and was far more exciting than his version.

When Chief Brody takes the shot the boat is gone and it's only the mast remaining. Great idea, perfectly executed - edge of the seat stuff.



Strangely enough one of my memories that stuck with me as a kid was after Robert Shaw was killed, there was an underwater shot of the shark and there was flesh hanging off it's teeth... a rather horrible attention to detail on display there.



< Message edited by Fluke Skywalker -- 22/9/2010 4:50:22 PM >

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Post #: 155
RE: Jaws - 22/9/2010 5:10:52 PM   
pete_traynor


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From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
If Spielberg’s take is not the intended take… then who the hell cares how it was intended before he came along!
 
Stephen Spielberg has many, many utterly amazing movies to his name… And Jaws is the best one!

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Post #: 156
RE: Jaws - 22/9/2010 5:31:35 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker


From I what I remember the shark just dies of it's own accord for no good reason in the book. 


The barrels. It's the strain of pulling the barrels around that kills the shark off eventually. That's what they're used for (remember, Quint tells us "Had to stick two barrels in 'im, two to wear 'im down and bring 'im up!")

Supposedly, Benchley was flung off the set for arguing with Spielberg's intended ending. He said "Nobody is going to believe that a shark will bite down on a SCUBA tank and explode like an oil refinery."

To which Spielberg replied: "I don't care! If I've got them for two hours, I've still got them for the next two or three minutes."

Fuck yeah!

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Post #: 157
RE: Jaws - 22/9/2010 9:50:52 PM   
DazDaMan


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http://www.top10films.co.uk/archives/3598

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Post #: 158
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 10:15:55 AM   
Fluke Skywalker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker


From I what I remember the shark just dies of it's own accord for no good reason in the book. 


The barrels. It's the strain of pulling the barrels around that kills the shark off eventually. That's what they're used for (remember, Quint tells us "Had to stick two barrels in 'im, two to wear 'im down and bring 'im up!")



Ah of course - how about that bit when Quint sticks three barrels in the shark and it still goes down!

It's interesting that the use of the barrels to indicate where the shark was came about because Bruce wasn't working properly - it's one of those things that happen out of necessity but actually improve the movie because it increases the impact when you do actually see the beast. Lucky there was no CGI about when Jaws was made otherwise it might have been a bit different.

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Post #: 159
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 10:41:54 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: musicfanforever0
The book is a classic and always will be. Jaws should be remade the way it was intended.


Thanks, Now we know why you call yourself a music fan.


I have no interest in seeing a Jaws film where Hooper is having an affair with Brody's wife. The book is incredibly bloated and Spielberg did the world a favour by getting to the nub of the story - Man Vs Shark


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Post #: 160
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 11:14:59 AM   
sharkboy


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From: Belfast
Couldn't agree more Ti - the book, while a good read, was just weighed down with unnecessary soap-opera sub plots.  Spielberg got to the crux of the matter with the movie.  And he even let Hooper live  

All this talk about barrels - does anyone else hear watch Shark Men on Nat Geo and hear Quint's voice every time a barrel goes over the side?  

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Post #: 161
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 11:24:37 AM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole
quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

Couldn't agree more Ti - the book, while a good read, was just weighed down with unnecessary soap-opera sub plots.  Spielberg got to the crux of the matter with the movie.  And he even let Hooper live  



He kinda had to!  The filming off South Australia went a bit awry when a shark destroyed one of the miniature cages they were using.  Thankfully it was empty, but it gave us the ending we now have!

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Post #: 162
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 11:24:47 AM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

Couldn't agree more Ti - the book, while a good read, was just weighed down with unnecessary soap-opera sub plots.  Spielberg got to the crux of the matter with the movie.  And he even let Hooper live  

All this talk about barrels - does anyone else hear watch Shark Men on Nat Geo and hear Quint's voice every time a barrel goes over the side?
  


"Hooooooper!"
"Dont wait for me!"




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Post #: 163
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 11:27:46 AM   
DazDaMan


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From: Penicuik - a right shithole
"He's comin'.  Heeheehee, he's comin'!  Hooper, get clear of the barrels.  HOOPER!  Tie it up, will you?!"

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Post #: 164
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 11:46:53 AM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
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From: the dark side of the sun
Just watching Quint's death on Youtube - it's pure horror ain't it, the way the shark is chomping, the screams are great as well, proper pained and terrified hysterics 

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Post #: 165
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 12:34:11 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
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From: Penicuik - a right shithole
Yeah, but strangely that bit didn't freak me out as much as Chrissie's death did when I first watched it. 

It's a great moment, though.  Bruce really looks as though he was finally working!

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Post #: 166
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 12:39:47 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6288
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From: Belfast
I once saw the most incredible tattoo of Quint's death scene, done on the inside of a guys bicep. I'll have to see if I can find a picture - the attention to detail was amazing!

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Post #: 167
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 12:44:01 PM   
theieuan


Posts: 282
Joined: 1/9/2006
From: Llanelli
Ellen Brody: Martin hates boats. Martin hates water. Martin... Martin sits in his car when we go on the ferry to the mainland. I guess it's a childhood thing. It's a... there's a clinical name for it isn't there?
Brody: Drowning.

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Post #: 168
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 12:44:04 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole


Y'know, I don't give a damn when people say "the shark looks fake".  He scared the SHIT out of people back in '75, man!  Fuck you!

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Post #: 169
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 1:29:57 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Poor old Quint feebly kicking his legs at it - look at the size of it's fucking head, he's got no chance!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

Yeah, but strangely that bit didn't freak me out as much as Chrissie's death did when I first watched it. 

It's a great moment, though.  Bruce really looks as though he was finally working!


That was a shocking start - once again the screams were really good, I bet Spielberg told them to really go at it with the screaming and recorded it multiple times until he got the perfect horrific take.

On the gore side, the half eaten hand was horrible as well but I was really impressed with the canoeist's leg that sank to the bottom after he got chomped, it looked really good.

Also the view from above as the shark glided in to take the canoeist was superb because it was a side on view of the shark's head with the gaping mouth.

The subsequent moment when Brody's son gets bypassed by the shark was excellent and when they drag him out of the water and the camera focuses on his legs, but thankfully they are still attached - these little touches differentiate genius film makers.



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Post #: 170
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 1:52:28 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005


That takes BALLS to have have something like that done, very cool though


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Post #: 171
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 2:52:21 PM   
jonson


Posts: 9150
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

"He's comin'.  Heeheehee, he's comin'!  Hooper, get clear of the barrels.  HOOPER!  Tie it up, will you?!"


The score for this sequence is the most rousing part of the soundtrack for me (Track 11 on the Anniversary CD if I'm right ) John Willaims did a masterful job, he gave Bruce a voice, and during this scene, when the barrels finally go under after the rousing orchestra, the shark almost taunts the viewer with what I've always thought sounded like the tune to "ding dong the witch is dead" from Wizard of Oz.

quote:

Also the view from above as the shark glided in to take the canoeist was superb because it was a side on view of the shark's head with the gaping mouth.


Yes, when Ted Grossman (Estuary victim) gets chomped, that's about the first time we get to see Bruce properly. You can't tell me it looks fake, thanks to the awesome editing you can barely tell the shark wasn't working

As for the shark not working, it's now legendary and was massively infuriating for Spielberg and the crew, as well as costing time and money. Thanks to the editing and score, we don't need to see the shark, and to be honest I think it would have been to the detriment of the finished film if the shark(s) had been wokring.

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RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 3:05:43 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole
quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

"He's comin'.  Heeheehee, he's comin'!  Hooper, get clear of the barrels.  HOOPER!  Tie it up, will you?!"


The score for this sequence is the most rousing part of the soundtrack for me (Track 11 on the Anniversary CD if I'm right ) John Willaims did a masterful job, he gave Bruce a voice, and during this scene, when the barrels finally go under after the rousing orchestra, the shark almost taunts the viewer with what I've always thought sounded like the tune to "ding dong the witch is dead" from Wizard of Oz.



That's my favourite part of the score, after of course the main theme and the second-to-last track ("Hand to Hand Combat", I think it's called?)

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Post #: 173
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 3:16:55 PM   
paul.mccluskey


Posts: 5165
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From: Port Glasgow, Scotland, UK
quote:

"Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into her side, Chief. We was comin' back from the island of Tinian to Leyte. We'd just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in 12 minutes.

Didn't see the first shark for about a half-hour. Tiger. 13-footer. You know how you know that in the water, Chief? You can tell by lookin' from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn't know, was that our bomb mission was so secret, no distress signal had been sent. They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin' by, so we formed ourselves into tight groups. It was sorta like you see in the calendars, you know the infantry squares in the old calendars like the Battle of Waterloo and the idea was the shark come to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin' and hollerin' and sometimes that shark he go away... but sometimes he wouldn't go away.

Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn't even seem to be livin'... 'til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The ocean turns red, and despite all your poundin' and your hollerin' those sharks come in and... they rip you to pieces.

You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don't know how many sharks there were, maybe a thousand. I do know how many men, they averaged six an hour. Thursday mornin', Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Boson's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the water, he was like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he'd been bitten in half below the waist.

At noon on the fifth day, a Lockheed Ventura swung in low and he spotted us, a young pilot, lot younger than Mr. Hooper here, anyway he spotted us and a few hours later a big ol' fat PBY come down and started to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened. Waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a lifejacket again. So, eleven hundred men went into the water. 316 men come out, the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945.

Anyway, we delivered the bomb."


How Shaw didn't get an Oscar I'll never know!

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Post #: 174
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 3:24:37 PM   
DancingClown


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"Smile, you son-of-a..." (bang)

How brilliantly edited is that final confrontation?


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RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 3:30:17 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole
As much as I love the various anniversary DVDs, I really wish they hadn't redubbed the sound!

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Post #: 176
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 4:29:13 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

Yes, when Ted Grossman (Estuary victim) gets chomped, that's about the first time we get to see Bruce properly. You can't tell me it looks fake, thanks to the awesome editing you can barely tell the shark wasn't working



It looks scary as hell - it's just the way it silently moves in nice and slow, it's unexpected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

"He's comin'.  Heeheehee, he's comin'!  Hooper, get clear of the barrels.  HOOPER!  Tie it up, will you?!"


quote:

ORIGINAL : Jonson
The score for this sequence is the most rousing part of the soundtrack for me (Track 11 on the Anniversary CD if I'm right ) John Willaims did a masterful job, he gave Bruce a voice, and during this scene, when the barrels finally go under after the rousing orchestra, the shark almost taunts the viewer with what I've always thought sounded like the tune to "ding dong the witch is dead" from Wizard of Oz.



Yeah that part of the score is superb because it's not actually dark, its's uplifting and full of energy. For a moment the fear is lifted as the spirit of adventure and joy in the hunt takes over It's only fleeting because they quickly find out how powerful this animal is but it's a great moment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paul.mccluskey

How Shaw didn't get an Oscar I'll never know!



Yeah I never thought about that - he must have been in for a shot it's a great performance. Who won that year?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

As much as I love the various anniversary DVDs, I really wish they hadn't redubbed the sound!


What have they done to it?

< Message edited by Fluke Skywalker -- 23/9/2010 4:30:27 PM >

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Post #: 177
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 4:38:26 PM   
paul.mccluskey


Posts: 5165
Joined: 15/4/2007
From: Port Glasgow, Scotland, UK
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: paul.mccluskey

How Shaw didn't get an Oscar I'll never know!



Yeah I never thought about that - he must have been in for a shot it's a great performance. Who won that year?


Jack Nicholson and George Burns won Best Actor and Best Supporting Actor for their performances in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and The Sunshine Boys. Shaw wasn't nominated!

Jaws was nominated for Best Picture, and won for Film Editing, Music (Original Score) and Sound.

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Post #: 178
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 5:40:22 PM   
DazDaMan


Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker


quote:

ORIGINAL: DazDaMan

As much as I love the various anniversary DVDs, I really wish they hadn't redubbed the sound!


What have they done to it?


If you go back to the old VHS copies pre-2000, the sound of the shark exploding sounded like a proper explosion. The post-2000 videos and DVDs have the shark explosion sounding like someone ripping a piece of tin foil. Sounds terrible!

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Post #: 179
RE: Jaws - 23/9/2010 8:41:01 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
My favourite parts of the score are when Brody and the kid are sitting at the table, that great moment where the broken pier turns around "Dont look back Charlie! take my word for it!" and when the shark first appears and they're trying to harpoon it, when Quint comes out the window with the speargun and Brody just spots it and heads back in the opposite direction 

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