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RE: Babylon 5 - 10/9/2010 12:44:29 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Black

Y'know towards the end of its run I was lamenting Galactica for running out of steam big style, but gave Babylon 5 a pass even though it suffered from exactly the same problem. The difference? Well, maybe I could argue that B5 wrapped up its storyline so S5 was basically a long epilogue where Galactica really should at the time have been amping up its storyline as it approached the finish line.

Or I'm just a big ol' hypocrite.



BSG at least had a forward momentum, and while I agree it had a run of episodes where it was treading water, B5 really spent a whole season, spin off and other tv movies, trying to find a reason to keep existing.

Also (BSG and B5 Spoilers) -

In both finales two characters who died and came back to life, vanish into thin air. But because one had bright white lights and an alien appearing in front of a character, it is forgiven by sci-fi fans.
 
END SPOILERS.

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Post #: 241
RE: Babylon 5 - 10/9/2010 12:48:12 PM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6752
Joined: 30/9/2005
I had no problem with Galactica's last episode (I'd describe it as 'really good', four and a half star type stuff) - but I reckon you could cleave the back end out of S4 and aside from the infodump episode, it wouldn't make a massive amount of difference to the narrative.

I'm not arguing my point per se; it's my reaction to it, in the same way I kind of groan when The X-Files comes up, even though I was a massive fan at the time so I'm unfair on that show too.


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Post #: 242
RE: Babylon 5 - 10/9/2010 1:13:22 PM   
Zaphod121

 

Posts: 10135
Joined: 20/1/2006
From: Not sure yet.
Well I think we can all agree the last season of The X-Files and the last episode in particular were utter rubbish.

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Post #: 243
RE: Babylon 5 - 10/9/2010 5:52:44 PM   
phoenix_rising


Posts: 118
Joined: 2/9/2010
quote:


BSG at least had a forward momentum, and while I agree it had a run of episodes where it was treading water, B5 really spent a whole season, spin off and other tv movies, trying to find a reason to keep existing.



I'm sorry but Babylon 5 had reasons to keep existing unlike Battlestar Galactica that meandered aimlessly with no plan, no idea, throwing it all together to make it work (sort of). BSG long outstayed its welcome falling so hard and so fast. I still can't believe how badly they frelled things up. In the end BSG was all shiny chrome, visually stunning,  great production values. A very good ensemble cast but ultimately the story was lost in favour of the minutia of the crew to the nth degree.  It certainly wouldn't have hurt to have likeable characters and something to care about. For me Battlestar Galactica was neither good science fiction (after series 2 episode 18) nor good drama and to be honest I have found the show to have very little re-watch value. Babylon 5 on the other hand never ceases to amaze, it's like a 100 hour movie that even with its flaws is an absolute masterpiece. Come 2020 will be an often forgotten science-fiction show from way back when and people on Forums (or wherever) will still be talking up the story that is Babylon 5.

Crusade would have been a fantastic series had TNT not interfered and JMS left to be able to tell the story he planned to tell. The plague was just a beginning point and from what I've read of what was planned Crusade probably would have surpassed Babylon 5, but the story was never told.

< Message edited by phoenix_rising -- 10/9/2010 6:07:18 PM >

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Post #: 244
RE: Babylon 5 - 10/9/2010 6:09:07 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I bet all the tea in china BSG will still be talked about in a decades time. So will B5.

And after season 4, the problem that faced B5 was that there was simply nothing that could top it. Season 5, at least in the second half, kinda works, but is every bit as loose as some of BSG - people are just more willing to cut it some slack for some reason.

B5 is far from a masterpiece. Season 1 is a real struggle to sit through, and season 5 for the most part is also a struggle. When we get right down to it, what the show had was an amazing arc for three seasons, which had some of the biggest stories seen on the small screen. But after that there is no reason for it to exist. The big story is finished. The massive, galaxy altering events have happened. Anything else is anti-climax. Was Crusade screwed from the start? Maybe. But the scripts themselves were awful, the cast never gelled, and some of the effects work...

But most importantly, it simply felt anti-climatic. We have just come through massive wars, and now we are back to square one? Not to mention we know Earth is still kicking around in the future, so the tension is somewhat dimminished. And yeah, he might have got rid of the virius. But if the threat was greater than the mothershow then it undercuts the importance of the Shadows, and personally I would rather see the Shadows stay as the no.1 bad guy. So I'm pleased we didn't see that.

Legend of the Rangers was his other attempt to get another series off the ground with that awful attempt to create a race "like the Shadows...only WORSE!", way to kill the dramatic tension from the mother series. The most feared race, becomes the second most feared race. It is like if they made a LOTR sequel and had a bad guy more powerful than Sauron. It diminishes Saurons importance.

Lost Tales was simply fan service and not needed. Although seeing updated effects kinda made me wish Warners would be TOS style reconstructions of the effects work.

Everything that followed the season 4 arc has been uneven to terrible, and that is because the main story was played out. JMS is just as guilty of Trek of trying to create a franchise out of the series. Only difference is, he has been less successful at it.

The acting was not always top of the list of important things. Many of the non arc episodes simply fell flat.

Yes, BSG isn't perfect either, and yes they made some of it up as they went along. But as long as it all pieced together - who cares? There is a werid hang up some people (not you) have about whether a show is 100% planned out from the start. I think it comes from JMS and B5. But it isn't like B5 had a perfect run either. It faced its own problems.

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Post #: 245
RE: Babylon 5 - 28/9/2010 6:13:48 PM   
Zaphod121

 

Posts: 10135
Joined: 20/1/2006
From: Not sure yet.
Good times...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKloZRwLu4

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Post #: 246
RE: Babylon 5 - 28/9/2010 6:54:29 PM   
darth silas


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From: My living room
B5 despite the odds,overcame its low budget limitations to become the greatest sci-fi show EVER.I watch the whole series at least once a year.

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Post #: 247
RE: Babylon 5 - 28/5/2011 10:00:08 AM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6752
Joined: 30/9/2005
Not much regarding Babylon 5 included, but a pretty nice piece from Alan Sepinwall about Jeff Conaway, who died yesterday.

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Post #: 248
RE: Babylon 5 - 15/7/2011 1:22:14 AM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee
My favourite ever TV series; it had everything, great characterisation development, gripping storylines, superb acting and a terrific soundtrack - whats not to like! Ok the effects look wooden now, but it doesn't matter when the rest is this good.

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Post #: 249
RE: Babylon 5 - 18/8/2011 2:20:47 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006
B5 reborn?-

http://trekmovie.com/2011/08/17/koenig-straczynski-negotiating-to-bring-back-babylon-5-walter-compares-bestor-to-chekov/


< Message edited by spark1 -- 18/8/2011 2:21:01 PM >

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Post #: 250
RE: Babylon 5 - 18/8/2011 7:38:13 PM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee
quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

B5 reborn?-

http://trekmovie.com/2011/08/17/koenig-straczynski-negotiating-to-bring-back-babylon-5-walter-compares-bestor-to-chekov/



Hope something happens, the last few attempts have either been disappointing or have fallen through. Gonna keep an eye on this me thinks!

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Post #: 251
RE: Babylon 5 - 22/8/2011 1:46:55 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltire

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

B5 reborn?-

http://trekmovie.com/2011/08/17/koenig-straczynski-negotiating-to-bring-back-babylon-5-walter-compares-bestor-to-chekov/



Hope something happens, the last few attempts have either been disappointing or have fallen through. Gonna keep an eye on this me thinks!




alas its been denied by JMS-

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/straczynski-puts-down-babylon-5-rumours/

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Post #: 252
RE: Babylon 5 - 29/8/2011 10:34:22 PM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee
quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltire

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

B5 reborn?-

http://trekmovie.com/2011/08/17/koenig-straczynski-negotiating-to-bring-back-babylon-5-walter-compares-bestor-to-chekov/



Hope something happens, the last few attempts have either been disappointing or have fallen through. Gonna keep an eye on this me thinks!




alas its been denied by JMS-

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/straczynski-puts-down-babylon-5-rumours/




Arrrrrrgggghhhhhhh!

On a sadder subject, I knew Richard Biggs died a few years back but didn't know Andreas Katsulas was also gone      G'Kar was my favourite character along with Londo - real shame, was gutted to hear that...

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Post #: 253
RE: Babylon 5 - 30/8/2011 3:14:56 PM   
Zaphod121

 

Posts: 10135
Joined: 20/1/2006
From: Not sure yet.
Would be cool if they re- released all the seasons with new special effects, no changes or anything just updated like they did with Star Trek.

< Message edited by Zaphod121 -- 30/8/2011 3:15:18 PM >


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Post #: 254
RE: Babylon 5 - 30/8/2011 5:39:23 PM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaphod121

Would be cool if they re- released all the seasons with new special effects, no changes or anything just updated like they did with Star Trek.


Yeah definately. It would bring along a lot of the younger sci-fi fans who are all about CGI anyway.

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Post #: 255
RE: Babylon 5 - 5/10/2011 3:31:24 AM   
Gimli The Dwarf


Posts: 77924
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Central Park Zoo
I'm thinking of giving this show a go. As such, is this the set to be going after?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Babylon-Complete-Collection-Lost-Tales/dp/B000WDSRG4/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1317781791&sr=1-1

I know it says complete, just making sure

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Post #: 256
RE: Babylon 5 - 5/10/2011 12:00:53 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gimli The Dwarf

I'm thinking of giving this show a go. As such, is this the set to be going after?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Babylon-Complete-Collection-Lost-Tales/dp/B000WDSRG4/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1317781791&sr=1-1

I know it says complete, just making sure


Yeah, thats the one.


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Post #: 257
RE: Babylon 5 - 7/10/2011 12:05:51 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaphod121

Would be cool if they re- released all the seasons with new special effects, no changes or anything just updated like they did with Star Trek.


Yeah definately. It would bring along a lot of the younger sci-fi fans who are all about CGI anyway.




the cg for most of B5 was pretty good, no need for updating.
the chance of the series being upgraded to blu ray, as with TNG and the OS, would be great.

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Post #: 258
RE: Babylon 5 - 7/10/2011 2:17:22 PM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaphod121

Would be cool if they re- released all the seasons with new special effects, no changes or anything just updated like they did with Star Trek.


Yeah definately. It would bring along a lot of the younger sci-fi fans who are all about CGI anyway.




the cg for most of B5 was pretty good, no need for updating.
the chance of the series being upgraded to blu ray, as with TNG and the OS, would be great.


I agree the effects are passable, especially the later series' but you know what people are like these days, if its not like Avatar, its not worth watching!

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Post #: 259
RE: Babylon 5 - 7/10/2011 2:23:20 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
They would have to upgrade the CGI if it were to be moved onto the HD platform - and likely the negatives would have to be re-edited.

TNG is having this done and it is costing a lot of money. But for Paramount the investment means they can sell the series to new HD channels that are springing up - it is a long term investment. I cannot see Warners doing the same for B5.


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Post #: 260
RE: Babylon 5 - 1/11/2011 12:43:51 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006
shame that neither versions of the pilot 'the gathering' are avaliable on dvd over here.
why was it not included in the s1 box set?

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Post #: 261
RE: Babylon 5 - 1/11/2011 1:27:14 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

shame that neither versions of the pilot 'the gathering' are avaliable on dvd over here.
why was it not included in the s1 box set?


Its in the boxset.


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Post #: 262
RE: Babylon 5 - 2/11/2011 11:53:33 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

shame that neither versions of the pilot 'the gathering' are avaliable on dvd over here.
why was it not included in the s1 box set?


Its in the boxset.



the original or SE?

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Post #: 263
RE: Babylon 5 - 2/11/2011 12:01:50 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

shame that neither versions of the pilot 'the gathering' are avaliable on dvd over here.
why was it not included in the s1 box set?


Its in the boxset.



the original or SE?


Can't remember.


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Post #: 264
RE: Babylon 5 - 3/11/2011 12:15:28 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006
are you sure its in the s1 boxset?
i've checked the box specs and it says it has the 22 eps from s1, no mention of the pilot ep included.

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Post #: 265
RE: Babylon 5 - 3/11/2011 1:31:56 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

are you sure its in the s1 boxset?
i've checked the box specs and it says it has the 22 eps from s1, no mention of the pilot ep included.


It is in a seperate disk - running time 91 minutes.


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Post #: 266
RE: Babylon 5 - 29/11/2011 1:31:15 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006
'the gathering' intro -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc9KM9YQ-WQ

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Post #: 267
RE: Babylon 5 - 6/1/2012 12:22:29 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006
if they kept cast from the pilot-

no talia, franklin in s1 and ivanova til s2.
she would have replaced sinclair's original exo who would have been unmasked the psi corp mole and have shot garibaldi during the santiago assasination.
and sinclair would have had his girlfriend already on board.

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Post #: 268
RE: Babylon 5 - 9/1/2012 12:27:24 PM   
blackduck


Posts: 1604
Joined: 1/10/2005
In fairness to JMS, season 5 was greenlit at the last second so the whole thing was a rush job, also because he didn't know he'd get a 5th season they packed all the good stuff into season 4.

Ideally the last two series should have been swapped around as a) anythnig after the Shadows is anti clamatic and b) would have been nice if earthforce had taken partin the final battle instead of being the only race to sit it out

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Post #: 269
RE: Babylon 5 - 9/1/2012 12:34:03 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7022
Joined: 18/11/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackduck

In fairness to JMS, season 5 was greenlit at the last second so the whole thing was a rush job, also because he didn't know he'd get a 5th season they packed all the good stuff into season 4.

Ideally the last two series should have been swapped around as a) anythnig after the Shadows is anti clamatic and b) would have been nice if earthforce had taken partin the final battle instead of being the only race to sit it out



but the fall of londo/centarui arc makes up for that as well as seeing the cast leave the station in 'objects in motion/at rest' before their reunion in 'sleeping in light'.

< Message edited by spark1 -- 10/1/2012 11:45:02 AM >

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Post #: 270
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