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RE: Star Trek... Where to Start

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RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 1:59:04 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18902
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Well you see part of the Battle of Wolf 359 in the pilot of DS9 when Sisko loses his wife whilst aboard USS Saragota, but yes... clearly they just didn't have the budget.




Gotta love how all that is sent to the Cube from Earth is two tiny ships.

Also - "We will have the fleet back to strength in a year" - oh well, thats ok then.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 61
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 2:03:10 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 By DS9, the fleet is huge though. So big they have several tactical wings and armadas.They lose 39 ships practically every day during the Dominion War. Makes the 39 lost at Wolf 359 seem like a minor inconvenience.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 62
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 2:05:56 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18902
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

By DS9, the fleet is huge though. So big they have several tactical wings and armadas.They lose 39 ships practically every day during the Dominion War. Makes the 39 lost at Wolf 359 seem like a minor inconvenience.


At that point in Star Trek history I think it was the single biggest loss of ships experienced by Starfleet. It just seems to be brushed off at the end.

At least in DS9 you felt the effects the war had on people. The Borg invasion felt like a minor inconvience by the end of the episode. Still its a minor quibble.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 63
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 2:06:59 PM   
HIM


Posts: 9685
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

My favorite bits of the Best of Both Worlds is the build up to the Cube - the second part isn't quite as strong I feel.


Exactly my point. The build up is so well orchestrated. The tension is ratcheted up to 11.

I haven't seen Emissary for years. I must watch it again. Where's the cheapest place I can the DS9 boxsets from?

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 64
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 2:09:37 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18902
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 Think Amazon have them for a decent price.

Check out the latest Family Guy btw - the entire Next Gen (including Denise Crosby!) appear. Patrick Stewart keeps hiting Will Wheaton.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 65
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 2:51:12 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 Just get my set HIM. Comes with Emissary and none of the low standard early DS9 eps.



_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 66
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 6:24:56 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Think Amazon have them for a decent price.

Check out the latest Family Guy btw - the entire Next Gen (including Denise Crosby!) appear. Patrick Stewart keeps hiting Will Wheaton.


Wil Wheaton is awesome though. That's not right.


(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 67
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 8/4/2009 11:01:24 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 I think Will Weaton threatened to quit TNG because he, like the fans, hated how a kid could repeatedly save the Enterprise from destruction despite it being populated with experienced officers, scientific experts and an android!



_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Dirty Hartigan)
Post #: 68
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 8/4/2009 4:20:33 PM   
blackduck


Posts: 1559
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumbaabaa

Let's not forget that DS9 had two of the greatest villains in Trek...





Best villan in anything ever. One of the few bad guys who wasn't bad for the sake of it. He was more like a good guy fighting for the wrong side

_____________________________

I am but an egg.

(in reply to Rumbaabaa)
Post #: 69
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 9/4/2009 9:46:02 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

I just got this for under £17! Yay!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
All the TNG 'movies' and the DS9 pilot.
 
Disc 1:
  • 1. Encounter at Farpoint
  • 2. The Best of Both Worlds

Disc 2:
  • 3. Redemption
  • 4. Unification

Disc 3:
  • 5. Time's Arrow
  • 6. Chain of Command

Disc 4:
  • 7. Birthright
  • 8. Descent

Disc 5:
  • 9. Gambit
  • 10. All Good Things

Disc 6:
  • Emissary (DS9)
  • Star Trek: The Next Generation Journey's End




This arrived today! Score!

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 70
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 12/4/2009 11:03:03 AM   
HIM


Posts: 9685
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
 How is it? Is it sexy?

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 71
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 14/4/2009 10:24:48 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 Uber sexy - namely because of Troi and her one piece uniforms.
 




_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 72
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 15/4/2009 10:20:29 AM   
jediwarrior


Posts: 19998
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: At home eating twiglets
 The remastered DVD's off the Original Star Trek is out later this month £30 for series one. I might get this as I think I've only seen about two episodes of the originals

_____________________________

GAMERTAG: hothtrooper

The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 73
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 15/4/2009 12:20:34 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18902
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 So I bought one of those Fan Collections which was Borg focused. It has all five TNG Borg episodes, the Scorpion, Dark Frontier and Engame two parters from Voyager along with a couple of others and the surprisingly great Enterprise episode.

While Voyager really dropped the ball on the race, the damage was started in The Next Generation. Hugh really killed a lot of the threat that the Borg represented. So much so that they became the heavies for freakin Lore the next time they show up.

But Voyager really killed them off. Sure the makeup looked great (although I have to admit liking the Next Gen costumes a lot more) and the intial story was intriguing when they were getting their asses handed to them, but one Seven of Nine came on board they were no longer a scary, unstoppable enemy. But the time the series finale occurs they are being swatted away like flies (and this is the first time I have ever seen this finale - talk about an anti-climax)

On the other hand the Enterprise episode really did return them back to that intial threat that was seen in the intial TNG episodes and First Contact. I never got into that show, but the production values were amazing!

It makes a great sequel to First Contact, and the denouncment at the end ties it all into the Next Generation very neatly. Sure, some people may question continunity, but I'm pretty cool with what they did.

The First Contact - Enterprise - Q Who - Best of Both Worlds - First Contact time loop is pretty cool. On the plus side watching the Borg episodes like this almost gives the race their own arc.

Oh and who wants to see Robert Beltram talking about how much he hates Star Trek!

http://www.associatedcontent.com/video/28155/robert_beltran_interview.html?cat=60

And here is Ron "Battlestar Galatica" Moore talking about the problems writing Star Trek. Very honest interview from 2002 about Voyager where you can see the seeds for Galatica being planted.

Part One -

http://www.mania.com/star-trek-profile-fanwriterproducer-ronald-d-moore_article_18708.html

Part Two

http://www.mania.com/star-trek-ronald-d-moore-part-ii_article_18741.html

While I dislike Voyager I am happy it existed as it allowed DS9 to get away with a lot more than it would have had it been considered the parent Star Trek show.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to jediwarrior)
Post #: 74
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 15/4/2009 1:00:51 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 The Voyager finale was one of the worse finale ever. A Janeway from the future, comes back and arms Voyager with Borg weaponry?! Despite the fact that once they get home, time is changed and that Janeway should never have existed....

But yes, Voyager neutered the Borg, there's only so many times you can escape them.

I'm at work so I can't watch the Beltram interview, but what's Chakotay moaning about?

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 75
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 15/4/2009 1:17:26 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18902
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 Just how he didn't like Star Trek and that the scripts he was sent were full of technobabble crap. To be fair to the man  - he is correct. I understand he also hated the finale. I know he has a reputation of whineing, but it comes from an honest place.

Amazed that the producers continued to hire him.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 76
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 15/4/2009 1:18:48 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 From Moore's interview:

Examine the fundamental premise of VOYAGER. A starship chases a bunch of renegades. Both ships are flung to the opposite side of the galaxy. The renegades are forced to come aboard Voyager. They all have to live together on their way home, which is going to take a century or whatever they set up in the beginning. I thought, This is a good premise. That's interesting. Get them away from all the familiar STAR TREK aliens, throw them out into a whole new section of space where anything can happen. Lots of situations for conflict among the crew.
 
The premise has a lot of possibilities. Before it aired, I was at a convention in Pasadena, and [scenic illustrator, technical consultant Rick] Sternbach and [scenic art supervisor, technical consultant Michael] Okuda were on stage, and they were answering questions from the audience about the new ship. It was all very technical, and they were talking about the fact that in the premise this ship was going to have problems. It wasn't going to have unlimited sources of energy. It wasn't going to have all the doodads of the Enterprise. It was going to be rougher, fending for themselves more, having to trade to get supplies that they want.
 
That didn't happen. It doesn't happen at all, and it's a lie to the audience. I think the audience intuitively knows when something is true and something is not true. VOYAGER is not true. If it were true, the ship would not look spick-and-span every week, after all these battles it goes through. How many times has the bridge been destroyed? How many shuttlecrafts have vanished, and another one just comes out of the oven? That kind of bullshitting the audience I think takes its toll. At some point the audience stops taking it seriously, because they know that this is not really the way this would happen. These people wouldn't act like this
 
That's why I prefered the earlier eps of Voyager when they were stranded on that planet and the crews were still clashing. The fact that the show 'reset' itself was a source of annoyance especially considering the amount of people they lost, damage they took etc (The Hirogen trashing the ship, the Borg, that encounter with the other Starship that was ignoring the Prime Directive) - you can see Moore transfering a lot of his annoyance to BSG (mutinities, food shortages, etc)

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 77
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 15/4/2009 1:23:00 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18902
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 That epsiode where they find the other Starship which isn't all nicey nice felt like a comment on what Voyager should have been by some of the writers.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 78
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 15/4/2009 1:34:08 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 It should have been like that. More 'bending of the rules' by the captain, perhaps a couple of idealistic officers rather than everyone being like that.... especially the Maquis. For ex-Federation citizens/terrorists, they fell into line pretty damm quickly.

There should have been a constant struggle to maintain their beliefs through the show, but there wasn't....

In fact, the more and more I think about Voyager, the more I'm frustrated by it. The show should have started with the crew as they were through out the series and had them more and more faced with losing their Federation ideals, like the crew of the USS Equinox.







_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 79
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 15/4/2009 5:08:41 PM   
blackduck


Posts: 1559
Joined: 1/10/2005
Voyager only had two characters that were of any use, the doctor (entirely due to the actor playing him) even though he was a Data rehash (why didn't anyone tell Data that starfleet had a fully developed emotional artifical intelligence in its back up systems!) And seven of nine, sure she was hired because she fit the silver suit,but she turned an eye candy role into a genuinely good role.

_____________________________

I am but an egg.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 80
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 16/4/2009 9:54:06 AM   
Rumbaabaa


Posts: 1315
Joined: 25/11/2005
From: York
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackduck

Best villan in anything ever. One of the few bad guys who wasn't bad for the sake of it. He was more like a good guy fighting for the wrong side


Gul Dukat might have been a fully fleshed out character, but that didn't make him a good guy. He was a self-obsessed mass-murderer!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon
Uber sexy - namely because of Troi and her one piece uniforms.


You're joking right? Deanna Troi? The whiny counsellor?

(in reply to blackduck)
Post #: 81
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 16/4/2009 10:03:42 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 I didn't say I liked the character, just the onesy...

It does grate in the TNG eps how every time Worf is pissed at something or Picard's just made a difficult decision, Troi waltzs into their quarters and asks them to open up....

Sisko would have thrown her out the nearest airlock.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rumbaabaa)
Post #: 82
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 16/4/2009 10:43:03 AM   
HIM


Posts: 9685
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
 Although Voyager was flawed, it still had some cracking episodes. I also think the fact that most episodes were standalone was a nice compliment to DS9's ongoing Dominion-arc. It means you can dip in and dip out at random and not be lost in the plot. One of the best decisions they made was jetisoning Kes though. Awful character. Torres was annoying as well. The Doctor though is right up there with Trek's greatest characters.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 83
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 16/4/2009 6:16:26 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18902
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 I just watched the DS9/TOS series cross over episode.

Terry Farrell in a 60s Starfleet miniskirt uniform = awesome.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 84
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 16/4/2009 6:27:50 PM   
HIM


Posts: 9685
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
 Hells-to-tha-yeah!


(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 85
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 17/4/2009 10:19:10 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 That is a great episode.
 
 
Always loved the fact that the DS9 crew couldn't recognise TOS Klingons.


_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 86
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 17/4/2009 2:09:47 PM   
blackduck


Posts: 1559
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumbaabaa

quote:

ORIGINAL: blackduck

Best villan in anything ever. One of the few bad guys who wasn't bad for the sake of it. He was more like a good guy fighting for the wrong side


Gul Dukat might have been a fully fleshed out character, but that didn't make him a good guy. He was a self-obsessed mass-murderer!

[

sorry badly phrased. I didn't mean good in the right / wrong sense. His actions were always motivated by goals he felt were right. Either to better his own position or that of Cardassia. he was never evil for the sake of it or because thats what bads guys do. He did have a moral code all be it warped. Except in the last season when they made him out and out bad with the pa-wraith shite.

_____________________________

I am but an egg.

(in reply to Rumbaabaa)
Post #: 87
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 18/4/2009 9:39:00 AM   
HIM


Posts: 9685
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
 Also, is anyone getting Star Trek Online when it comes out next year? I've made a thread in Joypad about it:

http://www.empireonline.com/forum/tm.asp?m=2327210&mpage=1&key=&NID=0#2329303

(in reply to blackduck)
Post #: 88
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 20/4/2009 11:22:18 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 5789
Joined: 18/11/2006
anhyone got the alternate universe boxset with the mirror universe eps?

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/simpleSearch.do?searchUID=-6243663536498151979&pGroupID=-1&adultFlag=false&primaryID=-1&simpleSearchString=Star+Trek%2C+Alternate


< Message edited by spark1 -- 20/4/2009 12:01:29 PM >

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 89
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 20/4/2009 11:32:22 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18902
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 I was tempted but the remastered TOS DVDs are out next week at the same price.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 90
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