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RE: Star Trek... Where to Start

 
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RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 6/12/2008 9:01:30 AM   
Castor Troy


Posts: 7074
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Rocky's graveside
I wouldn't say starting with the films is the best way to go - I think they'd be a lot more satisfying after watching the series. Unfortunately, there's a lot of series to watch, and also they all take a few years to really hit their stride - especially TNG and DS9 (not sure about the Original). But if you've got the time, I'd say start with TNG from the beginning, then DS9. But that's only because they're my favourites. 

_____________________________

The individual human mind. In a child's ability to master the multiplication table, there is more holiness than all your shouted hosannas and holy holies. An idea is more important than a monument and the advancement of Man's knowledge more miraculous than all the sticks turned to snakes and the parting of the waters.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 31
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 6/12/2008 9:09:08 AM   
HIM


Posts: 9734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon

I am thinking at the moment I might go with HIM's plan of watching the movies first, then the show starting with TNG.


Yay, good stuff! I'll admit, the first film is nicknamed 'The Slow Motion Picture' for a good reason and you shouldn't judge the rest of Trek by it. But it does act as a bridge between the original series and the rest of Trek. For a start, Kirk is an Admiral at the beginning of this film and the Enterprise is actually captained by Will Decker, who's father killed himself in an earlier episode of the tv series. So it's a good introduction to the characters, for the uninitiated. So treat the movie as a sort of extended opening sequence, before the triple treat of II, III and IV (which are sometimes referred to as the Genesis Trilogy as Rgirvan44 rightly pointed out).

Also, the reason I've advised to watch the Next Generation films in a funny order is because certain film make reference to Deep Space Nine and Voyager, which you won't have watched at that time, so it will contain two spoilers for those series. They're not earth-shattering spoilers and they certainly won't spoil your enjoyment of the series, but just be aware that they're there.

(in reply to moontheloon)
Post #: 32
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 6/12/2008 11:41:57 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 18/11/2006
u have to know/see how it started to appreciate where it ended up.

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 33
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 6/12/2008 11:59:24 AM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
Id recommend you start with ''City on the edge of forever'' from the original series.Not only is it one of the very best Trek episodes ever.I think its a great way of introducing someone to the series.

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Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 34
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 6/12/2008 1:28:04 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 18/11/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon

I am thinking at the moment I might go with HIM's plan of watching the movies first, then the show starting with TNG.


Yay, good stuff! I'll admit, the first film is nicknamed 'The Slow Motion Picture' for a good reason and you shouldn't judge the rest of Trek by it. But it does act as a bridge between the original series and the rest of Trek. For a start, Kirk is an Admiral at the beginning of this film and the Enterprise is actually captained by Will Decker, who's father killed himself in an earlier episode of the tv series. So it's a good introduction to the characters, for the uninitiated. So treat the movie as a sort of extended opening sequence, before the triple treat of II, III and IV (which are sometimes referred to as the Genesis Trilogy as Rgirvan44 rightly pointed out).

Also, the reason I've advised to watch the Next Generation films in a funny order is because certain film make reference to Deep Space Nine and Voyager, which you won't have watched at that time, so it will contain two spoilers for those series. They're not earth-shattering spoilers and they certainly won't spoil your enjoyment of the series, but just be aware that they're there.



TMP SE dvd is better, tighter version of the film with some nice new fx.
shame STV was not upgraded too.

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 35
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 6/12/2008 11:29:13 PM   
Mycroft


Posts: 2586
Joined: 30/9/2005
TNG has some great writing, but Picard and Data are the only interesting characters, and its all pretty stuffy. Voyager is more lightweight but still a little pompous, the characters are all bland and irritating, and the premise means there's barely any overlap with the other series. DS9 probably has the sharpest writing, less episodic than TNG and a more intimate spacestation setting. It's darker, more ambiguous and original, but not always easy watching. TOS probably has the strongest trio of characters, but the pace and just how it's aged becomes kind of tedious. Better to see the distilled experience of the films first, then go back. I'm in the minority for liking Enterprise, I think the timeframe makes it as good a place to start as any. Early on it should've taken better advantage of the near-future timeframe by showing the situation on Earth, the pace is pretty leisurely, and many of the situations were done in previous series (the creators being writers from TNG and Voyager). But it's the most accessible out of all of them for me. Captain Archer, Trip Tucker, Malcolm Reed, T'Pol and especially Phlox make a great ensemble, there's less deadweight in the cast than some of the other series. I'd go,

Enterprise (S1 at least)
Star Trek films 1 - 6 (Motion Picture - Undiscovered Country)
TOS
TNG
The other films
DS9

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 36
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 17/1/2009 10:56:43 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Thought this would be a good a place as any to post -

Does anyone know where you can watch the remastered episodes of the original series? The new FX work looks interesting.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Mycroft)
Post #: 37
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 9/3/2009 4:36:24 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
Just thought I'd bump this if there were any people influenced by the new trailer willing to give Trek a chance. A bunch of my friends are now. One's just ordered Season One of TOS, just to prep himself... and he's dismissed Trek up to this point as 'for the geeks'.








< Message edited by Timon -- 9/3/2009 4:37:23 PM >


_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 38
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 9/3/2009 4:47:09 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Those are some heavy looking boots Kirk is wearing.

For those concerned about canon I present these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1chtJQFQNs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55NwNrkzz4s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42Q-pFlzung&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy_-TklmyYE&feature=related

My favorite is the one when Picard gets a priceless relic in an episode and which he tosses away in Generations.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 39
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 9/3/2009 5:09:59 PM   
jackcarter


Posts: 1825
Joined: 12/1/2006
OP - don't listen to any of the others droning on about how DS9 or Enterprise is the best and to watch them first and how The Original Series is too old and rubbish etc…that kind of approach will turn you off star trek before the end of the episode credits. Theres a reason why Paramount has gone back to the original star trek for this new film and why DS9/Voyager/Enterprise led to star treks (temporary) demise...

Heres how you need to approach star trek cold:

-start with the 10 movies as they offer the budget that can support the concept better (visually plus action adventure wise) than the tv show and will help newcomers get into it - you really dont need to have watched the tv shows first to enjoy the movies...the first 6 are with the original cast, then 4 with the TNG lot - its important to watch them in this sequence: 2 Wrath of Khan, 3 Search For Spock, 4 Voyage Home, 6 Undiscovered Country and 8 First Contact (2 is by far the best of the 10 films but those are all great films...2/3/4 form a trilogy and 6 also has connections to it and wraps up the saga...8 is a standalone TNG film in the vein of 'Aliens' and 'Terminator').....then the rest which arent so good and are also standalone films with no connection storywise to any of the films: 1 The Motion Picture, 5 Final Frontier, 7 Generations, 9 Insurrection, 10 Nemesis (1 is ok if your into trek but quite slow with little action, 7 is fairly entertaining but abit nonsensical - but i think both of those are getting a bit better over time....However 5, 9 and 10 are pretty poor efforts - especially 9 which is like a bloated bad episode and is the worst of the whole lot and 10 isnt much better, 5 is ok if your just happy to see another film with the original cast LOL...its pretty important you dont watch any of that bunch b4 seeing the good ones or you'd probably wonder how people can get so into this stuff)

-then all 3 seasons of the original series (maybe best for a 1st timer to watch the newly remastered sets with the new FX...virtually all eps of season 1 and 2 are classics...season 3 is a significant dip in quality but does contain some classic eps like Spectre of The Gun, Enterprise Incident, Tholian Web, All Our Yesterdays...make sure you check out season 1s Space Seed - the prequel to Wrath of Khan...and City on the Edge of Forever - frequently listed as star treks greatest episode..)

-all 7 seasons of TNG (check a website for the best eps to watch if you dont want to wade through all of them as theres probably only half that are really good, e.g. -  the pilot - which isnt too good but one would have to watch, Conspiracy, Q Who, Yesterdays Enterprise - the best TNG ep, Sarek, Best of Both Worlds I/II, Unification I/II, Cause and Effect, Inner Light, Chain of Command I/II, Relics, All Good Things etc etc...season 3 is probably the best)

-Enterprise season 3/4 (season 3 is like an epic 20hr trek movie and season 4 homages and foreshadows TOS alot and is all the better for it....plus check out the pilot obviously & 'The Thing' inspired borg ep Regeneration from season 2...the rest of season 1/2 are best avoided)

dont bother with DS9 and VOYAGER - they were a waste of time steeped in technobabble and bumpy alien foreheads and will probably turn you off trek (esp if you start with them)..if you must check them out out of curiosity then just stick with the pilots and the 'Trials and Tribulations' ep of DS9

oh and dont forget the new film which if youve seen the new trailer will no doubt agree looks awesome...in fact, since its fairly close maybe youd be best off waiting for the new film then checking out star treks history... 

< Message edited by jackcarter -- 11/3/2009 5:44:29 PM >

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 40
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 9/3/2009 5:11:58 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Boo to you on the DS9 comment.

But agreed about Voyager.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to jackcarter)
Post #: 41
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 10/3/2009 12:09:27 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
DS9 took Meyer's militarisation of Trek and ran with it... for the better. After all, with all that exploring, you're bound to meet some intergalactic bastards, hence a Cold War with the Dominion that built, and built until it finally got hot.

 


_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 42
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 11/3/2009 1:23:37 PM   
jackcarter


Posts: 1825
Joined: 12/1/2006
Despite how cool that image looks I tried to get into DS9...really tried but I just couldn’t do it…Quark, Bashir, Kira, Dax, Siskos kid, Odo etc…those characters were just awful…let alone it being set on a dull space station…and all the prophet, dominion stuff, bumpy forehead overload, techno babble x 1000...same goes with Voyager which was even worse…at the time it was so depressing knowing there was new star trek on tv and not being arsed to watch it as it was just crap...and going to see the new film and being totally underwhelmed

DS9/Voy/Ent (the 1st 2 seasons) plus movies 9 and 10 really killed off trek and drove fans away…so much so that a lot of fans (like myself) didn’t even realise until after it was cancelled that the last 2 seasons of Ent were actually pretty good (due to Manny Coto) and had to get the dvd sets!

They are doing the right thing disregarding BermanTrek and going back to the original with a big budget film

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 43
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 11/3/2009 1:31:03 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
DS9 though, was essentially the most grown up of the series and showed that the Trek universe wasn't just a shiny utopia. Instead of a sleek flagship, you got a rundown Cardassian space station, instead of a noble career captain, you got a single father considering leaving Starfleet due to his wife being killed by The Borg.

A lot of DS9 was also taken from the major events of the 20th century - the Cardassian occupation of Bajor (The Holocaust), Resistance fighters, religion and faith (was doing it way before BSG), the Maquis/DMZ clearly being a metaphor for the Gaza strip, the Dominion (The USSR), then all out war for two seasons which saw characters die, the Federation endorsing assassinations, attempted genocide and characters losing limbs.

It's a long way from Counscillor Troi trying to get Picard to open up or the Enterprise D mediating some peace process between two humanoid races. TNG is really a product of its time and Voyager continued its upbeat nature (they even neutered the Borg), but DS9 took the franchise and made it darker and more realistic. There were species out there that just didn't conform to the Federation ideal... and who had no qualms telling Starfleet and the humans where to shove it - e.g. The Breen, The Jem'Hadar, The Cardassians etc

Plus it gave us the Defiant, the hardest starship in the fleet.






_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to jackcarter)
Post #: 44
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 11/3/2009 5:22:35 PM   
jackcarter


Posts: 1825
Joined: 12/1/2006

Sorry dude - just couldn’t do it…maybe if I was strapped into a chair Clockwork Orange style and forced to watch the entire series id come to appreciate it

Maybe they should bring back Movie Trial in the magazine and do a special one off 'TV Trial' for DS9 (and maybe do The Motion Picture for a trek film)…heres hoping they do another big trek issue in the next couple of months!

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 45
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 12/3/2009 11:34:47 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
Not good enough. Watch it from Season 3 onwards... that's when it really gets going: introduction of the Dominion, the breakdown of the Klingon/Federation alliance, Worf joins in Season 4 etc etc



_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to jackcarter)
Post #: 46
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 12/3/2009 1:20:19 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 18/11/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Not good enough. Watch it from Season 3 onwards... that's when it really gets going: introduction of the Dominion, the breakdown of the Klingon/Federation alliance, Worf joins in Season 4 etc etc




season 1-2 could put u off. keep watching from s3.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 47
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 12/3/2009 5:26:31 PM   
Rumbaabaa


Posts: 1317
Joined: 25/11/2005
From: York
Worf is way better in DS9 than he ever was in Next Gen. A much more fleshed out character, and far funnier too!  

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 48
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 13/3/2009 9:13:12 AM   
HIM


Posts: 9734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
I have to echo the praise for Deep Space Nine. My favourite Trek show, but only from season 3 onwards. I really can't stand the Bajorans and their religious bleating. The only problem is because it takes on an ongoing story arch I find it difficult to rewatch standalone episodes on Virgin 1. But that's purely personal preference. They're currently showing season 7 now on Virgin 1 but I'm planning on rewatching the whole series in the near future so I'm avoiding watching any episodes. Voyager on the other hand I find perfect to rewatch the episodes in no particular order. It's much easier to drop in and drop out. Although I tend to avoid most of the Kazon episodes and any involving Kes.

(in reply to Rumbaabaa)
Post #: 49
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 13/3/2009 9:22:05 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
Ironically I prefer some of the earlier Voyager episodes where there were still divisions between the Maquis and Starfleet crews. I think Season 4 was the last good season: had the Borg (when Voyager still had them as threatening), Species 8472, the doctor being transported to a Romulan occupied USS Prometheus, the 'Year of Hell' and the Hirogen... who let's face it, were Predators.

After that, it all went downhill....



_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 50
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 13/3/2009 9:48:00 AM   
HIM


Posts: 9734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
Yeah Voyager did have some amazing episodes. I liked the idea of the divided crew, but when it came to the characters I think they dropped the ball in having fairly standard and generic characters. So when they harmonised I think the show improved as it concentrate on story and not repetitive strife. After all, DS9 pretty much nailed the plot device of characters not getting along but gradually accepting and becoming familial with each other, so Voyager just seemed like a less good version.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 51
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 13/3/2009 10:17:17 AM   
Rumbaabaa


Posts: 1317
Joined: 25/11/2005
From: York
Let's not forget that DS9 had two of the greatest villains in Trek...



(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 52
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 13/3/2009 1:32:42 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 18/11/2006
a handful of season 1-2 eps from ds9-including 'emissary', 'duet', 'progress', 'in the hands of the prophets', 'the jem' hader' , 'blood oath' and 'the maquis'-are worth watching before moving to season 3.

< Message edited by spark1 -- 14/3/2009 1:25:09 PM >

(in reply to Castor Troy)
Post #: 53
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 10:55:22 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
I just got this for under £17! Yay!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
All the TNG 'movies' and the DS9 pilot.
 
Disc 1:

  • 1. Encounter at Farpoint
  • 2. The Best of Both Worlds

Disc 2:

  • 3. Redemption
  • 4. Unification

Disc 3:

  • 5. Time’s Arrow
  • 6. Chain of Command

Disc 4:

  • 7. Birthright
  • 8. Descent

Disc 5:

  • 9. Gambit
  • 10. All Good Things

Disc 6:

  • Emissary (DS9)
  • Star Trek: The Next Generation Journey’s End


_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 54
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 12:33:18 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Chain of Command was a great two parter.

David Warner AND Ronny Cox = two hours of my time well spent.



_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 55
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 1:41:26 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
It's not a bad set is it? 11 'movies' for £17. And the likes of Unification, Best of Both Worlds, Redemption, Chain of Command and such are amongst TNG's best.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 56
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 1:51:27 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Yeah - its a pretty decent set.

I bought a couple of those fan collections so already have Best of Both Worlds, Chain of Command and Descent. Going to pick up the remastered TOS at end of the month.

Wouldn't mind watching Unification again. All Good Things is excellent although a little dubious about trying to pretend the show had an arc, and an unwillingness to make any major changes to the characters due to Generations.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 57
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 1:52:35 PM   
HIM


Posts: 9734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
I watched Best of Both Worlds on Virgin 1 a few weeks, possibly months, ago and it struck me how good it was. Even though the Borg had been explored to the Nth degree in subsequent movies and TV shows the tension was still palpable in the lead up to the encounter. It reminded me a lot of Master & Commander. There was a genuine feeling of foreboding and fear in the build up. An uneasy calm before the storm. Fantastic stuff. I also loved how we weren't shown any of the battle of Wolf 359, one of the most infamous and important events in modern Trek history. I don't think an episode, or a film, in this manner would work with a modern audience. They'd want to be in there in the middle of the battle.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 58
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 1:55:47 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

I watched Best of Both Worlds on Virgin 1 a few weeks, possibly months, ago and it struck me how good it was. Even though the Borg had been explored to the Nth degree in subsequent movies and TV shows the tension was still palpable in the lead up to the encounter. It reminded me a lot of Master & Commander. There was a genuine feeling of foreboding and fear in the build up. An uneasy calm before the storm. Fantastic stuff. I also loved how we weren't shown any of the battle of Wolf 359, one of the most infamous and important events in modern Trek history. I don't think an episode, or a film, in this manner would work with a modern audience. They'd want to be in there in the middle of the battle.


Damn straight I would!

Love the two - parter but always a little sad we don't see the battle. But those were the budgets of the day - only when DS9 came around would they attempt big scale battles.

Actully the first episode of DS9 opens at Wolf 359, and the brief shots we see look epic.

My favorite bits of the Best of Both Worlds is the build up to the Cube - the second part isn't quite as strong I feel.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 59
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 3/4/2009 1:57:40 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
Well you see part of the Battle of Wolf 359 in the pilot of DS9 when Sisko loses his wife whilst aboard USS Saragota, but yes... clearly they just didn't have the budget.



_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 60
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