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Star Trek Thread - 5/12/2008 1:56:45 AM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6170
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham
 Okay. I've done a quick sweep of the last ten pages of this forum and although finding two star trek threads, neither seemed like they would be a good place to put this.. but mods feel free to move this if you disagree.

I have never seen an episode of star trek in my life, but I do enjoy sci-fi generally so I figure I should at least give star trek a go, it does have an enormous following after all, there has to be something in that. And what with the release of the new (cheap) Slim line cases I figure this is the time to perhaps give it a go. My problem however is where to start. On the one hand you have deep space nine, on the other you have voyager, then you have next generation, and of course the original series.

Where would be a good place to start for the uninitiated, do you have to have seen the earlier series to understand the later ones, if it worth watching the films first? or Tv series first. Basically where do I start. Normally I would just start at the beginning but I have heard some mixed things about the early Shatner ones... so yeah. Help me get started.

< Message edited by moontheloon -- 17/5/2009 12:02:03 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 7:35:51 AM   
hozay


Posts: 3333
Joined: 13/10/2005
From: the long,dark teatime of the soul
 You don't have to be familiar with one series to understand another series nor do you need to have seen the original .They are all pretty much stand-alone with occassional cross referencing in some series but not that much.
I've been getting into the Enterprise series lately and I think it's one of,if not the best,of all the series,although it's up to personal tastes I guess.It's kind of a Star Trek Begins type series that starts with the lead up and background story of the first starship (Enterprise) being launched after first contact with and the help of the Vulcans.I really like the characters,especially the captain, chief engineer,the Vulcan and the hologram doctor,who are all very well written and acted (OK the vulcan T'Pol isn't that good an actress but she's still likeable and pleasant eye candy).The stories also are very well written and consistantly include a real sense of the adventure you'd expect with humankind's first taste of interstellar travel and first contact with a range of interesting aliens.
Haven't seen any of the original series in quite a long time,not too sure how they've dated but I loved them as a kid,(Enterprise is also the closest to this series of all the spin-offs).
Voyager is also good value but the characters take a bit more getting used to I think.
One of the main crossover points throughout all the series is some of the regular alien species,Vulcan,Klingon etc but it won't take you long to become familiar with them and figure out who's who.

(in reply to moontheloon)
Post #: 2
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 10:12:54 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 To be honest, I'd start with the movies. You'll know straight away then if Trek is your thing.

The Original Series is great but a product of its time and you may find some of the episodes a tad silly. Others though are fantastic and I think you should check out at least Series 1 of the Original Series.

As for the subsequent series, they all have their moments but also their ups and their downs.

The Next Generation gave us the Borg, a Klingon Civil War, Spock attempting Unification and Q but by and large many episodes were a bit...samey.

Deep Space Nine started poorly but once The Dominion were introduced in Season 3 it really kicked off with a Cold War, then the Klingons turning against their Federation allies before all out war grips the universe from Season 6+.

Voyager started well (up to Season 4) but then over time neutered the Borg and became a victim of the whole 'sexing up Trek' idea which led to Seven of Nine not really doing much and once again becoming a character trying to understand humanity.

As for Enterprise, I never got into it...and gave up. With that and Nemesis, it was a dark time for Trekkers but last year I saw Season 4... and it was great!

_____________________________

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Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to hozay)
Post #: 3
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 10:15:12 AM   
elab49


Posts: 51590
Joined: 1/10/2005
If movies, specifically Khan I think - most of them are tripe. But if you are doing the series you have, I think, to start with the original as that then feeds in with character and politics to ST:TNG.

Also - there is an index at the top of the page for each thread for a show - saves you trawling pages

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Post #: 4
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 10:28:27 AM   
Monkeyshaver

 

Posts: 4734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: La Planete Des Singe
 Just watch the original series, TNG is quite good as well but everything else is shite.

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Post #: 5
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 10:43:45 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18886
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 I would say go into the movies - but start with the Wrath of Kahn, the second film - The Motion Picture is really a slower movie which while very well made, is not the most accessible and has no bearing on subsequent films.

Kahn pretty much sums up everything great about Star Trek. Watch the next two films, skip film five and then watch film 6. If you like what you see so far you should dive into the 60s show which holds up far better than the first three seasons (at least) of the Next Gen.

DS9 gets amazing as it goes on - a real arc based show so you would have to commit to the long haul. Made by Ron Moore who is now on Battlestar if that helps give an indicaiton of tone.

Voyager was never my cup of tea - very much like the Next Gen ut without Stewart.

And Enterprise I barely made past episode 5.

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Post #: 6
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 10:46:12 AM   
shool


Posts: 9612
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
 If you want to get into Trek as a TV series I would say go with TNG.

I found it the most rounded out with the best characters.


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Post #: 7
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 11:39:53 AM   
HIM


Posts: 9685
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
 Personally I'd go with:

1) Movies 1 - 6 (stopping at the final Original crew movie 'The Undiscovered Country')
2) The Next Generation series 1 - 7
3) Movie 7 (Generations)
4) Deep Space Nine series 1 - 7
5) Movies 8 (First Contact) and 9 (Insurrection)
6) Voyager series 1 - 7
7) Movie 10 (Nemesis)
8) Enterprise series 1 -4

I'd consider myself a massive Star Trek fan, but I can't really get into the Original Series. It's just too dated for me and to be honest a lot of the best stories and themes are repeated elswhere in Trek, such as the excellent Deep Space Nine episode 'Trials and Tribbilations', which plays out during the original series episode 'The Trouble With Tribbles'. I find Trek emmensly re-watchable too, so I've constantly got Virgin1 on. So watching them in broadcast order means you'll be able to find your own best show, without the prejudice of favouring one because some else told you it was the best or because it was simply the one you watched first. Good luck, and remember; Live long and prosper.

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 8
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 11:59:17 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 Oh come on HIM, The Original Series has some of the best episodes of Trek - Devil In The Dark, The City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, The Naked Time, The Enemy Within...mostly the Series 1 eps.

Of course for every one of those you have Kirk and co facing off against Apollo!


_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 9
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 12:07:18 PM   
Monkeyshaver

 

Posts: 4734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: La Planete Des Singe
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Oh come on HIM, The Original Series has some of the best episodes of Trek - Devil In The Dark, The City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, The Naked Time, The Enemy Within...mostly the Series 1 eps.

Of course for every one of those you have Kirk and co facing off against Apollo!


Yes, & the original is also fun, rather than the earnest & po-faced latter series.

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Post #: 10
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 12:09:13 PM   
Rumbaabaa


Posts: 1315
Joined: 25/11/2005
From: York
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

If you want to get into Trek as a TV series I would say go with TNG.

I found it the most rounded out with the best characters.



With the exception of Picard and Data most of the characters are two-dimensional, and the show has dated badly.

I'd go with movies 2-4 and Deep Space Nine.

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 11
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 12:10:50 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005
Only ever sat through one episode of the original series and that was Space Seed, it's not that bad. Product of its time, yes, but still ace.

(in reply to Rumbaabaa)
Post #: 12
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 12:11:14 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18886
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 I hate Data.

You know why Next Gen is dated - the ships counsillor sits next to the Captain.

Such an 80s New Age thing to do.

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Post #: 13
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 12:20:34 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005
Forget Trek, focus on Galactica!

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Post #: 14
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 12:25:17 PM   
Monkeyshaver

 

Posts: 4734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: La Planete Des Singe
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumbaabaa

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

If you want to get into Trek as a TV series I would say go with TNG.

I found it the most rounded out with the best characters.



With the exception of Picard and Data most of the characters are two-dimensional, and the show has dated badly.

I'd go with movies 2-4 and Deep Space Nine.


Data was good, I liked the Holmes episodes on the holodeck but every series has a Spocktype character that learns to be human etc & it gets repetitive.

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Post #: 15
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 12:25:50 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

Forget Trek, focus on Galactica!


I love Galactica, but you can't deny Trek's influence or its legacy.
 
Oh and in case, you were wondering, I love these Star Trek Inspirational Posters - http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/star_trek_insp.html


_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Tech_Noir)
Post #: 16
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 1:18:11 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 5786
Joined: 18/11/2006
u start with 'the cage' and work forward.
the movies diluted 'the great bird''s vision and but it was regained with TNG.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 17
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 1:19:37 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 5786
Joined: 18/11/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

u start with 'the cage' and work forward.
the movies after TMP diluted 'the great bird''s vision and but it was regained with TNG.

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 18
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 1:24:55 PM   
HIM


Posts: 9685
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Star Trekkin', across the universe
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Oh come on HIM, The Original Series has some of the best episodes of Trek - Devil In The Dark, The City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, The Naked Time, The Enemy Within...mostly the Series 1 eps.


Like I said, the stories and themes are great, timeless even in most cases, which is why they cropup again and again through Trek series and movies. However, the execution is often laughable by today's standards. Case in point:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SQeMknVWuU0&feature=related

I really think you have to be a diehard fan to appreciate the original series, which is why I recommend starting from the movies and working through almost chronologically (in our time not Trek chronology).

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 19
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 1:29:16 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM
Like I said, the stories and themes are great, timeless even in most cases, which is why they cropup again and again through Trek series and movies. However, the execution is often laughable by today's standards. Case in point:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SQeMknVWuU0&feature=related


Hey! That is a classic!

quote:


u start with 'the cage' and work forward.
the movies after TMP diluted 'the great bird''s vision and but it was regained with TNG.



_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to HIM)
Post #: 20
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 1:52:26 PM   
shool


Posts: 9612
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Oh come on HIM, The Original Series has some of the best episodes of Trek - Devil In The Dark, The City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, The Naked Time, The Enemy Within...mostly the Series 1 eps.


Like I said, the stories and themes are great, timeless even in most cases, which is why they cropup again and again through Trek series and movies. However, the execution is often laughable by today's standards. Case in point:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SQeMknVWuU0&feature=related

I really think you have to be a diehard fan to appreciate the original series, which is why I recommend starting from the movies and working through almost chronologically (in our time not Trek chronology).



Thats hilarious.


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Post #: 21
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 2:13:30 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18886
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Oh come on HIM, The Original Series has some of the best episodes of Trek - Devil In The Dark, The City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, The Naked Time, The Enemy Within...mostly the Series 1 eps.


Like I said, the stories and themes are great, timeless even in most cases, which is why they cropup again and again through Trek series and movies. However, the execution is often laughable by today's standards. Case in point:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SQeMknVWuU0&feature=related

I really think you have to be a diehard fan to appreciate the original series, which is why I recommend starting from the movies and working through almost chronologically (in our time not Trek chronology).



Thats hilarious.



And still more exciting than the majority of Next Gen episodes.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to shool)
Post #: 22
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 2:30:15 PM   
shool


Posts: 9612
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Oh come on HIM, The Original Series has some of the best episodes of Trek - Devil In The Dark, The City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, The Naked Time, The Enemy Within...mostly the Series 1 eps.


Like I said, the stories and themes are great, timeless even in most cases, which is why they cropup again and again through Trek series and movies. However, the execution is often laughable by today's standards. Case in point:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SQeMknVWuU0&feature=related

I really think you have to be a diehard fan to appreciate the original series, which is why I recommend starting from the movies and working through almost chronologically (in our time not Trek chronology).



Thats hilarious.



And still more exciting than the majority of Next Gen episodes.


Well each to their own. I enjoyed alot of the TNG episodes. Especially the Borg ones.


_____________________________

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"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

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Post #: 23
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 2:56:49 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18886
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool

quote:

ORIGINAL: HIM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Oh come on HIM, The Original Series has some of the best episodes of Trek - Devil In The Dark, The City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, The Naked Time, The Enemy Within...mostly the Series 1 eps.


Like I said, the stories and themes are great, timeless even in most cases, which is why they cropup again and again through Trek series and movies. However, the execution is often laughable by today's standards. Case in point:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SQeMknVWuU0&feature=related

I really think you have to be a diehard fan to appreciate the original series, which is why I recommend starting from the movies and working through almost chronologically (in our time not Trek chronology).



Thats hilarious.



And still more exciting than the majority of Next Gen episodes.


Well each to their own. I enjoyed alot of the TNG episodes. Especially the Borg ones.



The Borg ones were good. I wouldn't say Next Gen wasn't very good because it had a lack of action. It was just the tone of the whole thing. Even when they did do more "realistic" episodes it tended to be forgotton come the next one.

The rule of measure I tend to use is Riker without beard = bad episode, Riker with beard = good episode (or at least not as bad as the intial seasons).

Deep Space Nine wasn't always dark but it did interesting stuff with its cast. Odo - the Spock of that show, actully ended up having a fundamental role to play in the overarching storyline and did more than try and learn to be human - something which applied to the rest of that show. Aliens didn't regard humanity as something to aim for while in Next Gen Picard loved telling Worf how human he was becoming. Aliens in DS9 would have told Sisko to shove it for saying that.


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 24
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 4:41:40 PM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6170
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

Forget Trek, focus on Galactica!


I've got the new Galactica series 1-3 and I have watched series 1.. It was an amazing show and when all this essay business is over I will begin on the other series. But I can manage two shows at once

I am thinking at the moment I might go with HIM's plan of watching the movies first, then the show starting with TNG.

If after watching the first.. 3/4 films I am still not feeling it is it worth trying out the TV shows? or is it just not going to be my type of thing.

I'm quite excited actually. Might pop to the shops in a bit and check it out

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Post #: 25
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 4:43:37 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

Forget Trek, focus on Galactica!


I've got the new Galactica series 1-3 and I have watched series 1.. It was an amazing show and when all this essay business is over I will begin on the other series. But I can manage two shows at once



What? No season 4.0?

Re-watching season 4 has made me realise that it's not as poor as I initially throught, it's just more complex than the rest.

(in reply to moontheloon)
Post #: 26
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 4:58:52 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18886
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

Forget Trek, focus on Galactica!


I've got the new Galactica series 1-3 and I have watched series 1.. It was an amazing show and when all this essay business is over I will begin on the other series. But I can manage two shows at once

I am thinking at the moment I might go with HIM's plan of watching the movies first, then the show starting with TNG.

If after watching the first.. 3/4 films I am still not feeling it is it worth trying out the TV shows? or is it just not going to be my type of thing.

I'm quite excited actually. Might pop to the shops in a bit and check it out


As mentioned above start with Wrath of Kahn (second film) and not The Motion Picture (Film no. 1) I'm sure others will disagree but it is just a little too grand, and dare I say it, slightly self important. Kahn is operates as simply a great movie with fantastic banter between the crew and a superb villian. Films 2,3,4 form a sort trilogy so might be worth your time getting all three and taking it from there.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 27
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 6:43:47 PM   
Mason Verger


Posts: 4724
Joined: 13/1/2006
From: Bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri
 Start here:

William Shatner "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds"

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Post #: 28
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 8:47:05 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester
 The continual misspelling of Khan as Kahn is irking me slightly...

I'm surprised there's such an aversion to watching the original series - I loved it as a kid in the 80s. It's not that much harder to watch than any other programmes from the era IMO. Deep Space Nine is the best of the modern Treks, but they all suffer from the "takes 3 seasons to become good" rule, so you could watch movies 2-4 and 6 first, original series 1, then fast forward to TNG series 3, (whichever one has all the Klingon stuff, and Best of Both Worlds).

(in reply to Mason Verger)
Post #: 29
RE: Star Trek... Where to Start - 5/12/2008 8:51:10 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18886
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

The continual misspelling of Khan as Kahn is irking me slightly...



Whoops.

And no edit button either.

*has Trek fan badge ripped off of him*

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 30
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