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RE: The Black Bond Question - 6/12/2008 3:12:03 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24507
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

When it comes to these sorts of things (Bond, Superman, Jesus etc.) why is it always black and white.

How about an eskimo Bond?


Yes, the British government would definatly get an Eskimo in to fight terrorism.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to Tech_Noir)
Post #: 121
RE: The Black Bond Question - 6/12/2008 3:30:48 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20199
Joined: 12/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

When it comes to these sorts of things (Bond, Superman, Jesus etc.) why is it always black and white.

How about an eskimo Bond?


Yes, the British government would definatly get an Eskimo in to fight terrorism.


The terrorists would never expect it.

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 122
RE: The Black Bond Question - 6/12/2008 4:19:22 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24507
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

When it comes to these sorts of things (Bond, Superman, Jesus etc.) why is it always black and white.

How about an eskimo Bond?


Yes, the British government would definatly get an Eskimo in to fight terrorism.


The terrorists would never expect it.


"Who's the man in the parka who keeps standing outside our building?"
"Oh he's probably no-one. I mean, its not like he could be a spy".

_____________________________

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WWLD?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to Tech_Noir)
Post #: 123
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/12/2008 1:05:45 AM   
Rotary Ten


Posts: 922
Joined: 31/10/2005
I'm finding this debate hilarious. I've laid out my views on this thread earlier, but to me, a black Bond makes about as much sense as making Bond gay and have him flirt with a male Monneypenny. It suggests that there is in some way something wrong with Bond being white. I know that M hasn't been played by a man for 20 years, but I think the role of "head of MI6" is more flexible, being an office rather than a specific person. James Bond 007 is a specific person, and although he can be played differently according to the actor playing him, e.g. his accent can be changed, Bond should remain basically the same person in each case.

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 124
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/12/2008 1:16:08 AM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24507
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
The M in the books was largely based on Ian Fleming's mother so its not that big a jump to actually make her a woman.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to Rotary Ten)
Post #: 125
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/12/2008 5:16:09 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10597
Joined: 30/9/2005
Fleming's mother was a snarky Judi Dench?  Poor man.

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Post #: 126
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 1:46:56 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1886
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
The solution:

When Craig's run comes to an end, have him about to escape the jaws of death, but not make it.

Gasp: Bond dies on screen!!!

After a moment of 'big music' for the shock to set in, a scene where M takes a call, we see her side of it. She doesn't speak a word. Her face falls in response to what she is hearing, and a single tear trickles down her face.

She hangs up. Composes herself. Presses intercom:

M: Moneypenny, it's been confirmed. He didn't make it. You know what to do. Engage the ususal protocols. Code reference, double O, double Omega seven, replacement procedure. Activate.


Then,written into the lore of Bond is a reason why he's had so many faces. James Bond is a code name, for whoever will later take the mantle of 007. Then, there is no reason why he couldn't be black, because it would always be the best available for the job.

And it would add something the movies have yet to use: The idea that Bond can die, and some of the previous Bonds might have been killed in the line of duty too...

Bond remains the iconic figure, but the story adapts to suggest it's a role to be fulfilled, for propoganda purposes .

Whose the black goverment spy
Licensed to kill
To drive and fly?

Bond!

You're damn right...

(sorry about the Shaft intrusion (oo-er) couldn't resist

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 7/4/2009 1:48:52 PM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

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Post #: 127
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 1:54:33 PM   
rupert303


Posts: 1737
Joined: 31/7/2008
From: A Big Geek Pie
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

When it comes to these sorts of things (Bond, Superman, Jesus etc.) why is it always black and white.

How about an eskimo Bond?


Yes, the British government would definatly get an Eskimo in to fight terrorism.


he could use his power of Inuitition...

< Message edited by rupert303 -- 7/4/2009 1:55:21 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 128
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:03:10 PM   
genejoke


Posts: 1783
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: bournemouth
quote:

ORIGINAL: rupert303

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

When it comes to these sorts of things (Bond, Superman, Jesus etc.) why is it always black and white.

How about an eskimo Bond?


Yes, the British government would definatly get an Eskimo in to fight terrorism.


he could use his power of Inuitition...

gosh that was hilarious.

(in reply to rupert303)
Post #: 129
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:07:25 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14584
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

The solution:

When Craig's run comes to an end, have him about to escape the jaws of death, but not make it.

Gasp: Bond dies on screen!!!

After a moment of 'big music' for the shock to set in, a scene where M takes a call, we see her side of it. She doesn't speak a word. Her face falls in response to what she is hearing, and a single tear trickles down her face.

She hangs up. Composes herself. Presses intercom:

M: Moneypenny, it's been confirmed. He didn't make it. You know what to do. Engage the ususal protocols. Code reference, double O, double Omega seven, replacement procedure. Activate.


Then,written into the lore of Bond is a reason why he's had so many faces. James Bond is a code name, for whoever will later take the mantle of 007. Then, there is no reason why he couldn't be black, because it would always be the best available for the job.

And it would add something the movies have yet to use: The idea that Bond can die, and some of the previous Bonds might have been killed in the line of duty too...

Bond remains the iconic figure, but the story adapts to suggest it's a role to be fulfilled, for propoganda purposes .

Whose the black goverment spy
Licensed to kill
To drive and fly?

Bond!

You're damn right...

(sorry about the Shaft intrusion (oo-er) couldn't resist


We've discussed this - Bond/007 is not an alias. Why else would Roger Moore be visiting Tracy's grave in For Your Eyes Only? Why's Bond been married before in Licence to Kill? Why does Brosnan wince when asked in TWINE if he's ever lost someone close to him?

It's the same character.

And to call all your 007s James Bond is the worst idea for a SECRET service to do. The most recognisable spy ever.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 130
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:08:32 PM   
Kazuya


Posts: 7978
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
How about a pygmy Bond? 

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"Bleed, bastard."

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 131
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:10:47 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27267
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Or a Russian Bond, with a moustache, those poeple are never suspicous.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Kazuya)
Post #: 132
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:13:18 PM   
genejoke


Posts: 1783
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: bournemouth
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Or a Russian Bond, with a moustache, those poeple are never suspicous.


Big glasses, fake nose and hitler tache, perfect disguise.

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 133
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:17:22 PM   
Kazuya


Posts: 7978
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
Or Native American perhaps...or how about a Japanese Bond?

_____________________________

"Bleed, bastard."

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 134
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:19:56 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24507
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya
how about a Japanese Bond?


We had that in You Only Live Twice!

_____________________________

Team Ginge
WWLD?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to Kazuya)
Post #: 135
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:23:20 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27267
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
How about a female Bond? We had Bond girls who turned out to be men. Well one, and no, not the one from Living Daylights.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 136
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:29:29 PM   
Kazuya


Posts: 7978
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya
how about a Japanese Bond?


We had that in You Only Live Twice!


Oh, right

quote:

How about a female Bond? We had Bond girls who turned out to be men. Well one, and no, not the one from Living Daylights.


Definitely, if so many people want the Bond character to be something else than what it's written as, then why not? How 'bout an elderly woman as Bond? Judi Dench could just take over the franchise, be like Miss Marple meets Bond?

_____________________________

"Bleed, bastard."

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 137
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:30:55 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24507
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home

Do you expect me to Talk?

_____________________________

Team Ginge
WWLD?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to Kazuya)
Post #: 138
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:33:05 PM   
Kazuya


Posts: 7978
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
"No, Miss Bond, I expect you to die!"


_____________________________

"Bleed, bastard."

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 139
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 2:38:00 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27267
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
I miss Diana Rigg, why did you have to kill her, Fleming? Why couldn't you save her Bond! Why????!!



_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Kazuya)
Post #: 140
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 6:18:30 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1886
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

The solution:

When Craig's run comes to an end, have him about to escape the jaws of death, but not make it.

Gasp: Bond dies on screen!!!

After a moment of 'big music' for the shock to set in, a scene where M takes a call, we see her side of it. She doesn't speak a word. Her face falls in response to what she is hearing, and a single tear trickles down her face.

She hangs up. Composes herself. Presses intercom:

M: Moneypenny, it's been confirmed. He didn't make it. You know what to do. Engage the ususal protocols. Code reference, double O, double Omega seven, replacement procedure. Activate.


Then,written into the lore of Bond is a reason why he's had so many faces. James Bond is a code name, for whoever will later take the mantle of 007. Then, there is no reason why he couldn't be black, because it would always be the best available for the job.

And it would add something the movies have yet to use: The idea that Bond can die, and some of the previous Bonds might have been killed in the line of duty too...

Bond remains the iconic figure, but the story adapts to suggest it's a role to be fulfilled, for propoganda purposes .

Whose the black goverment spy
Licensed to kill
To drive and fly?

Bond!

You're damn right...

(sorry about the Shaft intrusion (oo-er) couldn't resist


We've discussed this - Bond/007 is not an alias. Why else would Roger Moore be visiting Tracy's grave in For Your Eyes Only? Why's Bond been married before in Licence to Kill? Why does Brosnan wince when asked in TWINE if he's ever lost someone close to him?

It's the same character.

And to call all your 007s James Bond is the worst idea for a SECRET service to do. The most recognisable spy ever.


Okay, forget the idea of 'replacement protocols' as a pre-existing, previously unalluded to process. It was a suggestion not based on total knowledge of every nook and cranny of the history of the character. That doesn't preclude the basics of the idea being a new direction the films could take. Calling all 007s James Bond in such a scenario wouldn't be too stupid, since most of those who encounter him either become allies or become dead. Besides, Bond Baddies seem to find out he's a spy pretty quickly, anyway.

Fair enough to want to be consistent with all that has gone before, but its a big swallow already to accept the basis of the films as portraying exactly the same agent being fully active for over half a century. Far as I can tell the idea of what Bond represents  has always been more important than realism anyway, given how the films have to move with the times to keep the franchise alive.

The franchise had to be rebooted big style after the bollocks quotientof DAD, and there is absolutely no bar to new elements of storytelling being added, it may even be a necessity to prevent stagnation occurring again. Having a Bond die on screen and then replaced within the context of the storytelling could actually STRENGTHEN the franchise, because it would allow the films to make a virtue of the fact that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Additionally, it's much better dramatically if a character isn't invincible. Fair enough for him to be the same person when Fleming was writing the books, but the films have played pretty fast and loose with Flemings words so often that by now, as long as the spirit of Bond survives, it should be a pretty open canvas. 

I'm not insisting this is the only way forward or anything, just suggesting it as something that my ensure the films keep MY interest. And if they were to do something like this, and use that as a means to introduce a black James Bond (who would only be a passing phase during the ongoing series) I'd enjoy it. Hell, they could kill off Bond during an opening sequence and have a black colleague have to pretend to be Bond for the rest of the mission, to be told the jobs his if he wants it at the end of the film. (which would be a bit of a twist on previous films, given the number of times Bond has had a black colleague who ends up dead, no doubt some Bondaphile can specify what that number is, I'm just interested in a good story/original dramatic spin on established motifs)

_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 141
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 6:26:05 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24507
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

The franchise had to be rebooted big style after the bollocks quotientof DAD,


Why? They didn't reboot it after some of the other crap ones?

_____________________________

Team Ginge
WWLD?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 142
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 6:32:28 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb


quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

The franchise had to be rebooted big style after the bollocks quotientof DAD,


Why? They didn't reboot it after some of the other crap ones?


There's been many crap Bond films, but it had become a bloated parody of itself with DAD.

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(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 143
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 6:33:31 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1886
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
I meant it was decided by someone (a decision I wholeheartedly agreed with)that it had to be rebooted, hence the total restart of Casino Royale. And every new Bond is effectively a reboot of the series anyway, otherwise there would have been no change of tone from Moore to Dalton (judged to be a failure, hence him only doing two films) and from Dalton to Brosnan.

I love the fact that the recent film has risked being disliked by some Bond fans in order to commit to working on the character (and showing what is under the mask of charm he will later wear), and while this means an inevitable effort to be more crowdpleasing next time, that hopefully won't be the last risk the series takes.

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 7/4/2009 6:35:25 PM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 144
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 6:39:27 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24507
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
The thing about the "reboot"" is it was so half hearted. If your rebooting a franchise, you don't keep Judi Dench as M, use some of the same reference points (an Aston Martin for example) and have a director who's already directed. They wanted to reboot because it sounded cool post-Batman, but the difference with Batman, is that all the creative heads were different, that wasn't the case with Bond, and thats why i don't think it worked.

_____________________________

Team Ginge
WWLD?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 145
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 6:51:58 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb

The thing about the "reboot"" is it was so half hearted. If your rebooting a franchise, you don't keep Judi Dench as M, use some of the same reference points (an Aston Martin for example) and have a director who's already directed. They wanted to reboot because it sounded cool post-Batman, but the difference with Batman, is that all the creative heads were different, that wasn't the case with Bond, and thats why i don't think it worked.


Why does having Matin Campbell directing not work with a reboot?

And I think the box office and critical response for Casino Royale did show that it was well -recieved.

I look at the Bond franchise much like the Sherlock Holmes stories. Very loose collection of tales which at times contridict each other but have many similar characters. Looking for consistancy in the Bond universe is the path to madness I suspect.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 146
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 6:56:01 PM   
dhowdy

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 29/8/2008
From: London
i thnk that this is inevitable. although the likelihood of this occurring is when there is a shift in power in terms of who is calling the shots and the colour of their skin. i don't why it can't happen or why it shouldn't. M became a woman after all...so why not Bond black or Asian.

Now what about a physically-challenged Bond? Perhaps a Bond with Multiple Sclerosis? Or Pakinsons? That would really make things interesting.

(in reply to Timon)
Post #: 147
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 6:58:19 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24507
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb

The thing about the "reboot"" is it was so half hearted. If your rebooting a franchise, you don't keep Judi Dench as M, use some of the same reference points (an Aston Martin for example) and have a director who's already directed. They wanted to reboot because it sounded cool post-Batman, but the difference with Batman, is that all the creative heads were different, that wasn't the case with Bond, and thats why i don't think it worked.


Why does having Matin Campbell directing not work with a reboot?

And I think the box office and critical response for Casino Royale did show that it was well -recieved.

I look at the Bond franchise much like the Sherlock Holmes stories. Very loose collection of tales which at times contridict each other but have many similar characters. Looking for consistancy in the Bond universe is the path to madness I suspect.



I'm looking forward to the Black Sherlock...

_____________________________

Team Ginge
WWLD?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 148
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 7:26:34 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

I meant it was decided by someone (a decision I wholeheartedly agreed with)that it had to be rebooted, hence the total restart of Casino Royale. And every new Bond is effectively a reboot of the series anyway, otherwise there would have been no change of tone from Moore to Dalton (judged to be a failure, hence him only doing two films) and from Dalton to Brosnan.



Dalton only did two films, because there was a court case in the early 90s which delayed EON from doing a third film. By the time they got round to making one, Dalton was no longer interested in the part.

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 149
RE: The Black Bond Question - 7/4/2009 7:28:32 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

I meant it was decided by someone (a decision I wholeheartedly agreed with)that it had to be rebooted, hence the total restart of Casino Royale. And every new Bond is effectively a reboot of the series anyway, otherwise there would have been no change of tone from Moore to Dalton (judged to be a failure, hence him only doing two films) and from Dalton to Brosnan.



Dalton only did two films, because there was a court case in the early 90s which delayed EON from doing a third film. By the time they got round to making one, Dalton was no longer interested in the part.



Also Dalton was so good in the part he would rather have been 2 for 2 and not got to that point the franchise always gets to on occasion when he would be expected to battle robots or something.


I may have made the above up but its how I like to have thought it would have played out.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Dirty Hartigan)
Post #: 150
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